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JJ Watt to Cardinals

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20 hours ago, Bob806 said:

Never thought of that, meaning the Steelers & the cap. So yeah, Pittsburgh sounds like they are heading to cap hell.

During many NFL broadcasts they kept mentioning how the cap will go down. I'm just wondering if the league & union are able to open up talks about that. The uncertainty of the pandemic probably means management wouldn't be willing to, with the possibility of no fans again. 

Vance McDonald retiring has freed up 15M with the increase in cap slightly and his numbers off the books and they steelers didn't have to do anything.  We are definitely going to lose some guys but we aren't in as much hell now. 

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22 minutes ago, Vagitron said:

Vance McDonald retiring has freed up 15M with the increase in cap slightly and his numbers off the books and they steelers didn't have to do anything.  We are definitely going to lose some guys but we aren't in as much hell now. 

Well...they did have to do something....they had to lose Vance McDonald. (but, agree....he has not been much lately....so gaining that cap space is likely more valuable to that team than keeping that player would have been. 

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1 hour ago, SdBacker80 said:

?

 

You saying why not us, then bring up his current 17 million.

When Tour2ma post was saying IF he were willing to take a huge paycut it wouldn't be for the Browns. 

From his EXACT post (which is what I replied about) he said that list is 1.

If you don't want to see the reasoning behind playing with his brothers, ok.

Even taking them out, there are teams that would be more likely to give JJ an opportunity to win a championship next year

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8 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

Why do you say not us?

You answered your own question when you noted that he has two brothers in the NFL who play just a couple hours east of us.

Playing with Derek and TJ would trump every other consideration. The family is very tight.

 

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41 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

You answered your own question when you noted that he has two brothers in the NFL who play just a couple hours east of us.

Playing with Derek and TJ would trump every other consideration. The family is very tight.

 

First, he could go to the Steelers.
 

But He can traded correct?  So his deal is in tact.  And we can afford it - other contenders can’t afford it. Someone mentioned he didn’t have a no trade clause.  

and the Steelers even with his charity have cap problems.  
 

He would play for a contender and not a team on the decline like the Steelers-  sorry Vag Browns is not the Browns...and he’s two hours from brothers.  They could own a large chunk of land and a big house for a year in Canfield OH and be halfway between Pitt and Cleveland - if they are truly that close 

 No debate needed although  I don’t think you can eliminate the Browns 

Is he that picky? He called out his teammates for not manning up and playing the last month.  Sounds like a guy that has suck it up buttercup type of mantra.

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1 hour ago, Gunz41 said:

You saying why not us, then bring up his current 17 million.

When Tour2ma post was saying IF he were willing to take a huge paycut it wouldn't be for the Browns. 

From his EXACT post (which is what I replied about) he said that list is 1.

If you don't want to see the reasoning behind playing with his brothers, ok.

Even taking them out, there are teams that would be more likely to give JJ an opportunity to win a championship next year

Going into 2021 We have cap room unlike others.  He’s on a one year deal. If we want his 17M for one year WE can take it on 

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18 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

Going into 2021 We have cap room unlike others.  He’s on a one year deal. If we want his 17M for one year WE can take it on 

Don't disagree. But that wasn't what you replied to with Tour. He specifically said that if JJ were to take a discount it would only be one team and it wouldn't be Cleveland.

Then you replied and asked why not us?

You are arguing something totally different than what you replied to. 

If the question is JJ at 17m and would he play in Cleveland at that price, I would think so.

If the question is if he would be a good fit, I certainly believe so.

But if the question (which is what Tour said and reason I replied) is would CLE be his 1 choice at a reduced cost, then I think that would be a absolute no.

And I can't say I understand the logic behind the rest of that post at all. There is certainly a big difference in being 2 hours away and being teammates with your brothers. Sure, the 2 hours is closer than present, but there is a HUGE difference. A good example (not comparing the players caliber at all), but there has been some talk that LeBron may stay in the NBA long enough to play with Jr. Of course he would have to make the league. But since there is no way to know where Jr. would end up, but if those talks are correct the goal would be to play with family, not necessarily who can win, best fit, etc.

And I think we would all agree that the Browns have lost the stigma and that he wouldn't be opposed to playing opposite Myles. But he also wouldn't be opposed to playing with Donald, Jones, Smiths, Barrett, etc; and aside from Donald, all those other guys would seemingly give him the better chance to win a championship (i.e. Chiefs, Packers, Bucs).

Again, I am not saying JJ won't go to Cleveland, that he wouldn't be a fit, or anything like that. I am saying that by what Tour2ma posted and you subsequently replied and asked "Why Not", that is why not

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1 hour ago, SdBacker80 said:

Going into 2021 We have cap room 

Nope.

Our salary expense last season was at the cap.

The cap this past season was 198.2; Browns salary expenses were 196.0.

Notice how even in the last couple of weeks the magical one-year-only get-out-of-jail-free has now decreased to only 18.0.  Under a month ago it was 30; nobody knows the bizarre clauses and contract dates when guarantees kick in.

 

34 minutes ago, Gunz41 said:

If the question is JJ at 17m and would he play in Cleveland at that price

That's NOT the only question though.  JJ watt would not sign a one-year deal -- and we only have cap space for one year.  After one year we are precisely 2.2 million under the cap BEFORE considering JJ's contract.

 

Who are you advocating cutting to create space for him after year one? 

 

I know, I know -- you're not.  But this is pure bizarro fantasyland.. we don't have the cap space after year one of any deal and he's not signing a one-year deal.

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42 minutes ago, Gunz41 said:

Don't disagree. But that wasn't what you replied to with Tour. He specifically said that if JJ were to take a discount it would only be one team and it wouldn't be Cleveland.

Then you replied and asked why not us?

You are arguing something totally different than what you replied to. 

If the question is JJ at 17m and would he play in Cleveland at that price, I would think so.

If the question is if he would be a good fit, I certainly believe so.

But if the question (which is what Tour said and reason I replied) is would CLE be his 1 choice at a reduced cost, then I think that would be a absolute no.

And I can't say I understand the logic behind the rest of that post at all. There is certainly a big difference in being 2 hours away and being teammates with your brothers. Sure, the 2 hours is closer than present, but there is a HUGE difference. A good example (not comparing the players caliber at all), but there has been some talk that LeBron may stay in the NBA long enough to play with Jr. Of course he would have to make the league. But since there is no way to know where Jr. would end up, but if those talks are correct the goal would be to play with family, not necessarily who can win, best fit, etc.

And I think we would all agree that the Browns have lost the stigma and that he wouldn't be opposed to playing opposite Myles. But he also wouldn't be opposed to playing with Donald, Jones, Smiths, Barrett, etc; and aside from Donald, all those other guys would seemingly give him the better chance to win a championship (i.e. Chiefs, Packers, Bucs).

Again, I am not saying JJ won't go to Cleveland, that he wouldn't be a fit, or anything like that. I am saying that by what Tour2ma posted and you subsequently replied and asked "Why Not", that is why not

Lol. 

He’s only going to play for one team at a discount the Steelers.  Okay.  It is a sure thing.  It could Very well happen too. 

All I’m saying is - we have a chance.    And I was advocating that position. 
 

We can write it off now I guess...but what else is there to talk about.

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23 minutes ago, Unsympathetic said:

Nope.

Our salary expense last season was at the cap.

The cap this past season was 198.2; Browns salary expenses were 196.0.

Notice how even in the last couple of weeks the magical one-year-only get-out-of-jail-free has now decreased to only 18.0.  Under a month ago it was 30; nobody knows the bizarre clauses and contract dates when guarantees kick in.

 

That's NOT the only question though.  JJ watt would not sign a one-year deal -- and we only have cap space for one year.  After one year we are precisely 2.2 million under the cap BEFORE considering JJ's contract.

 

Who are you advocating cutting to create space for him after year one? 

 

I know, I know -- you're not.  But this is pure bizarro fantasyland.. we don't have the cap space after year one of any deal and he's not signing a one-year deal.

So in one post we have JJ only signing a discount with the Steelers...and here we have he will only sign a multi year deal.  
 

I am glad we all have it figured out.
 

Sounds like a guy coming off an All Pro year.  
 


 

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The article is correct for the rollover cap that we had during the 2020 season but is incorrect regarding rollover and free cap available during the 2021 season.  That article's "free cap" may have been correct using 2020 numbers but those stopped being relevant even last week.

Forbes asserts Browns free cap is 21.5 but that's nonsense.. committed salaries for 2021 are 196.0 and cap for 2021 hasn't been determined yet -- the floor is 175 per prior deal but the actual # will be set in negotiation.  Even if the cap was equal to last year of 198.2 that's still only a gap of 2.2.

Look around on OTC and you won't find 21M for the Browns anywhere.. 2021 Browns on the "cap space" link on the upper right shows 18.0, precisely the rollover cap.

 

 

In a one word answer - yes - the numbers in that article are fake news. 

Most newspaper/magazine writers are on too quick of a deadline [articles/day or some such] to do the legwork I do to research the cap detail.  This guy probably had an old version of OTC's details saved on a spreadsheet and just went with that rather than verifying to ensure nothing had changed since he last looked.  So his numbers may have been correct around 12/1/2020 or so.. but they're definitely not correct as of 1/22/2021.

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Finally... some "fake news" that really is fake... :D

 

On where JJ lands...

  • Texans had 3 football Gods exiting the 2019 season: Watt, Watson and Hopkins.
  • Hopkins grumbled his way out of Houston in the worst deal n Houston's football history.
  • Houston ownership already has a major PR issue in the form of Watson who is grumbling his way out.
  • If they trade JJ, then they need a happy JJ to exit. So any trade will be in coordination with him.... with his blessing.

JJ's in the last year of his deal, He has already nixed the idea of any further extension to remain a Texan. He has value so the Texans would be wise to get what they can for him which is likely around a 3rd given that they have no leverage.

JJ is rich, has a summer home in Wisconsin. It's ~4500 sq ft on 35 acres. He has it and as the NFL's first, $100mm DL, all the money he'll ever need. So in the right opportunity he will at minimum restructure, and likely give a discount.

While he might objectively feel that CLE offers him a better shot at a ring than PTG does in 2021, in any case going for a ring  in either city is a long shot. He can get better odds in KC or GB... and GB is in? Wisconsin! However, even KC or GB are not sure rings.

The only sure thing he can control is who he plays with and only one team has his two, "NFL-brothers-from-the-very-same-Mother" rostered.

 

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Tour is right. Trading JJ Watt would be a major PR issue for the Texans. If you think they would take a 3rd round pick for the guy who has been the face of that franchise for a decade, no chance. Yes, that's probably what his value is on the market, but with the current Watson situation, can you imagine what would happen if they traded BOTH those guys? Can you imagine the fan reaction when they announce the Texans traded JJ Watt for a 3rd round pick? The best solution for them is to let his contract run out and then let him make the decision on where he wants to go. 

From a Browns perspective, I think he still offers value simply because of his versatility across the line. Adding him to a line would certainly be a big help. I think the Browns could make it work and I don't think there would be any issues from his side. I would accept giving up a 3rd or 4th rounder and even has high as swapping our 2nd for their 3rd round. All that being said, the Browns still have players to resign and big deals for Ward, Baker, and Chubb in the next two years. The cap is going to go down. The floor is set at $175 per the CBA agreement, but I'm not sure it will stay around $200 like it is now. It will probably land somewhere in the middle. 

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17 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Finally... some "fake news" that really is fake... :D

 

On where JJ lands...

  • Texans had 3 football Gods exiting the 2019 season: Watt, Watson and Hopkins.
  • Hopkins grumbled his way out of Houston in the worst deal n Houston's football history.
  • Houston ownership already has a major PR issue in the form of Watson who is grumbling his way out.
  • If they trade JJ, then they need a happy JJ to exit. So any trade will be in coordination with him.... with his blessing.

JJ's in the last year of his deal, He has already nixed the idea of any further extension to remain a Texan. He has value so the Texans would be wise to get what they can for him which is likely around a 3rd given that they have no leverage.

JJ is rich, has a summer home in Wisconsin. It's ~4500 sq ft on 35 acres. He has it and as the NFL's first, $100mm DL, all the money he'll ever need. So in the right opportunity he will at minimum restructure, and likely give a discount.

While he might objectively feel that CLE offers him a better shot at a ring than PTG does in 2021, in any case going for a ring  in either city is a long shot. He can get better odds in KC or GB... and GB is in? Wisconsin! However, even KC or GB are not sure rings.

The only sure thing he can control is who he plays with and only one team has his two, "NFL-brothers-from-the-very-same-Mother" rostered.

 

So the Yates guy that did this for a living could be wrong.  Possibility. 
 

If he’s right we can use any of that amount regardless of the 2021 cap number as it was carried over from the year before. 
 

We do not know what the final cap number will be for 2021 but conceivably we could know the carry over number. If Yates is correct.

You brought up the Pack- and I think they have an excellent shot too. 

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10 minutes ago, Bigalow80 said:

Tour is right. Trading JJ Watt would be a major PR issue for the Texans. If you think they would take a 3rd round pick for the guy who has been the face of that franchise for a decade, no chance. Yes, that's probably what his value is on the market, but with the current Watson situation, can you imagine what would happen if they traded BOTH those guys? Can you imagine the fan reaction when they announce the Texans traded JJ Watt for a 3rd round pick? The best solution for them is to let his contract run out and then let him make the decision on where he wants to go. 

From a Browns perspective, I think he still offers value simply because of his versatility across the line. Adding him to a line would certainly be a big help. I think the Browns could make it work and I don't think there would be any issues from his side. I would accept giving up a 3rd or 4th rounder and even has high as swapping our 2nd for their 3rd round. All that being said, the Browns still have players to resign and big deals for Ward, Baker, and Chubb in the next two years. The cap is going to go down. The floor is set at $175 per the CBA agreement, but I'm not sure it will stay around $200 like it is now. It will probably land somewhere in the middle. 

So let a guy that may want out play the year in Texas and get nothing for him after the season?  Meanwhile they don’t have a 1st or 2nd this year.  That’s probably a criminal misuse of an asset and lose/lose for the player and the team. 

My guess there are more soft hearted JJ/Texan fans that are pissed and are thinking let JJ go somewhere where he can win now and let’s reset and get something for him. 

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33 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

My guess there are more soft hearted JJ/Texan fans that are pissed and are thinking let JJ go somewhere where he can win now and let’s reset and get something for him. 

I think most Texans fans... remember I live with one... could be made to understand a rationale for trading JJ to a place that means he is leaving happy

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45 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

I think most Texans fans... remember I live with one... could be made to understand a rationale for trading JJ to a place that means he is leaving happy

It is hard not to be a JJ Watt fan- Is Mrs Tour a Watt Fan? 

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14 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

Lol. 

He’s only going to play for one team at a discount the Steelers.  Okay.  It is a sure thing.  It could Very well happen too. 

All I’m saying is - we have a chance.    And I was advocating that position. 
 

We can write it off now I guess...but what else is there to talk about.

You are still Missing the point. None of what you just said is wrong.

But when someone lays out a topic and within that topic says 1 team, and it ain't us...

When you reply why not us, that would then appear to be questioning the person you replied to, fair to say?

And when you then change the terms of what was said, you are making a different argument. I.e. when Tour2ma said take a discount... you can't then discuss his current contract and why it would be fine and a fit. Those are 2 different bullet points on the same topic.

None of that means he wouldn't go to Cleveland, wouldn't be a fit, that there is still a stigma, etc.

What it means is that Pittsburgh can offer something that NO other team can offer. That's all it is. And like I said, I don't even have an iota of an idea why you brought up being 2 hours away. If you think that is even in the same universe as being on the same team, and thus seeing them every day, then you just appear to not understand that kind of bond.

14 hours ago, Unsympathetic said:

Nope.

Our salary expense last season was at the cap.

The cap this past season was 198.2; Browns salary expenses were 196.0.

Notice how even in the last couple of weeks the magical one-year-only get-out-of-jail-free has now decreased to only 18.0.  Under a month ago it was 30; nobody knows the bizarre clauses and contract dates when guarantees kick in.

 

That's NOT the only question though.  JJ watt would not sign a one-year deal -- and we only have cap space for one year.  After one year we are precisely 2.2 million under the cap BEFORE considering JJ's contract.

 

Who are you advocating cutting to create space for him after year one? 

 

I know, I know -- you're not.  But this is pure bizarro fantasyland.. we don't have the cap space after year one of any deal and he's not signing a one-year deal.

You obviously just picked out something to respond to and didn't read the rest of the thread. What you quoted had NOTHING to do with me saying yay or nay on Watt. It was pointing out the difference between discussing JJ and being willing to take a pay cut to potentially play with his brothers and then using 17 to say he could play in CLE. Those are separate arguments on the same topic. 

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37 minutes ago, Gunz41 said:

You are still Missing the point. None of what you just said is wrong.

But when someone lays out a topic and within that topic says 1 team, and it ain't us...

When you reply why not us, that would then appear to be questioning the person you replied to, fair to say?

And when you then change the terms of what was said, you are making a different argument. I.e. when Tour2ma said take a discount... you can't then discuss his current contract and why it would be fine and a fit. Those are 2 different bullet points on the same topic.

None of that means he wouldn't go to Cleveland, wouldn't be a fit, that there is still a stigma, etc.

What it means is that Pittsburgh can offer something that NO other team can offer. That's all it is. And like I said, I don't even have an iota of an idea why you brought up being 2 hours away. If you think that is even in the same universe as being on the same team, and thus seeing them every day, then you just appear to not understand that kind of bond.

You obviously just picked out something to respond to and didn't read the rest of the thread. What you quoted had NOTHING to do with me saying yay or nay on Watt. It was pointing out the difference between discussing JJ and being willing to take a pay cut to potentially play with his brothers and then using 17 to say he could play in CLE. Those are separate arguments on the same topic. 


Gunz I’m not going down a rabbit hole like others do with you.  This topic doesn’t need it.  
 

From the Texans perspective- because they have a stake in this too (not just making sure the three amigos get together in 2021). They can trade JJ and maximize value and get what they need and JJ plays for a team in 2021.  
 

JJ in 2022 when he’s a free agent could decide to trio up with his family. Take a 1 year 2M deal whatever because he’s loaded. 

I questioned Tour because it appeared from the post that the Steelers(just the Steelers) would be the team that JJ would take a discount for- whether he meant that or not I don’t know.  Here’s the thing - I actually agree he would take a discount for Pitt but I wouldn’t stop at just the Steelers.  And the Steelers (although the cap isn’t set) have cap issues they need to deal with to facilitate just about any move.  
 

So moving onto a different bullet point, If he’s traded (as far as I know he doesn’t have a no trade clause) he can play out his contract and go with a new team- the Texans can take the best offer and/or he can rework with the Texans or the team he’s going to which could facilitate a trade to other teams that aren’t carrying over as much money and don’t have other considerations with their cap spend. 
 

 

 

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2 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:


Gunz I’m not going down a rabbit hole like others do with you.  This topic doesn’t need it.  
 

From the Texans perspective- because they have a stake in this too (not just making sure the three amigos get together in 2021). They can trade JJ and maximize value and get what they need and JJ plays for a team in 2021.  
 

JJ in 2022 when he’s a free agent could decide to trio up with his family. Take a 1 year 2M deal whatever because he’s loaded. 

I questioned Tour because it appeared from the post that the Steelers(just the Steelers) would be the team that JJ would take a discount for- whether he meant that or not I don’t know.  Here’s the thing - I actually agree he would take a discount for Pitt but I wouldn’t stop at just the Steelers.  And the Steelers (although the cap isn’t set) have cap issues they need to deal with to facilitate just about any move.  
 

So moving onto a different bullet point, If he’s traded (as far as I know he doesn’t have a no trade clause) he can play out his contract and go with a new team- the Texans can take the best offer and/or he can rework with the Texans or the team he’s going to which could facilitate a trade to other teams that aren’t carrying over as much money and don’t have other considerations with their cap spend. 
 

 

 

If you want to think it's a rabbit hole then ok.

Again, I am not arguing ANYTHING you said for your points there.

I simply replied to you replying to him why not us and then changing the parameters of what you were replying to.

It may not have even been your intent to change them, but if you don't see how you did this, then I am done trying to explain it after this post. The post you replied to (and just said why you replied) was talking about taking a discount, and I believe it said something about 10m, and said it would be 1 team, and not us. You replied with why not us, and then you used 17m. So you using 17m (current deal) is not a discount, which means you are comparing different situations. Which was my only point the entire time.

So I will go a step further now. I would have ZERO issue with the Browns getting him at current deal or a reduced one. I think he certainly fits, and I would think it would be something the Browns look at. And as for the rest, I have already agreed about the stigma. This has nothing to do with your view on JJ Watt or anything like that. But only your apparent taking offense to me just pointing out that I view you using a different argument than what was originally used 

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On 1/21/2021 at 3:54 PM, tiamat63 said:

 Personnel wise... Damn, JJ would be a great addition in replacing OV while we keep our edge depth roll players.

 Would allow this draft and next to turn over late round rocks in hoping we find cheap(er) youth. 

 

fuck no.....way over his prime....this would be another blockheaded move like the willie mcginnis....scott fujita....jamal lewis moves.......like one of the posters said, we would be paying for his past performance....he's cooked....too many injuries..

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11 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

Is Mrs Tour a Watt Fan? 

Let me put it this way...

When we went to see CLE @ DAL this season she wore a Texans' #99 jersey... ;)

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6 hours ago, browns52 said:

fuck no.....way over his prime....this would be another blockheaded move like the willie mcginnis....scott fujita....jamal lewis moves.......like one of the posters said, we would be paying for his past performance....he's cooked....too many injuries..

If I recall, Jamal Lewis played pretty darn well for us in the time he was here.  And McGinnis wasn't so bad either.  

Lewis:  2   1000 yard seasons. 

2007 28 CLE RB 31 15 15 298 1304 9 59 66 4.4 86.9 19.9 39 30 248 8.3 2 8 34 2.0 16.5 76.9% 6.4 328 4.7 1552 11 4 13
2008 29 CLE RB 31 16 16 279 1002 4 43 29 3.6 62.6 17.4 32 23 178 7.7 0 8 18 1.4 11.1 71.9% 5.6 302 3.9 1180 4 2 6
2009 30 CLE RB 31 9 8 143 500 0 18 18 3.5 55.6 15.9 11 8 88 11.0 0 5 19 0.9 9.8 72.7% 8.0 151 3.9 588 0 0 3

 

McGinest:

2006 35 CLE LOLB 55 14 13 1 0 0 0 2 0 0 1 0 0 4.0 45 36 9 8 10   6
2007 36 CLE LOLB 55 13 11 0 0 0 0 5 0 0 1 0 0 3.0 30 19 11 4 4   5
2008 37 CLE LOLB 55 14 14 0 0 0 0 2           1.0 57 44 13 5 9  

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Resign Vernon, Acquire JJ and there you have a nice rotation at RE. Our pass rush was non existent without Vernon and JJ is still far better than anything we have behind Vernon.

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9 minutes ago, TopDawg31 said:

Resign Vernon, Acquire JJ and there you have a nice rotation at RE.

... and no money..

Couple other HOU players that would be worth exploring acquiring via trade...

  • Brandon Cooks
  • Justin Reid

https://dawgpounddaily.com/2021/01/24/cleveland-browns-trade-texans/

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Maybe we package baker on and obj and get watt and Watson.

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Watson?

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40 minutes ago, cambridgeho said:

Maybe we package baker on and obj and get watt and Watson.

Stop it.  Baker is not being traded 

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