As Always, HERE is the TRUTH about shutting down the KESTONE PIPELINE

[calfoxwc]

blah blah, hysterically defending the shutting down of the pipeline...it's

actually going to be worse for the environment: (despite you-know-who's insistence he's a "republican" (NOT) and that the pipeline was terrible only because Pres Trump did it FOR AMERICA)

https://redstate.com/brandon_morse/2021/01/28/watch-biden-walks-away-when-asked-about-killing-the-jobs-of-thousands-of-americans-n318009

Watch: Biden Walks Away When Asked About the Sacrifices He's Forcing On Americans

"Democrats hailed the cessation of the Keystone XL Pipeline’s construction as a victory for the environment, but according to research, they’ve only enabled further damage to it by increasing the amount of carbon emissions being spewed into the air by the transportation of Canadian oil down into Texas via trucks.

So it seems Biden isn’t overly concerned about the environment or the people whose jobs he just terminated with the stroke of a pen, indicating the move more for the purposes of political posturing than anything else."

 

[FairHooker11]

my question to the squad - how do you feel about your vote now?

 

[JAFBF]

[Ibleedbrown]

I found this article helpful. Basically a pro and con article written in 2013 when the pipeline push was happening. 

https://alternativeenergy.procon.org/questions/should-the-united-states-authorize-the-keystone-xl-pipeline-to-import-tar-sand-oil-from-canada/

A few things l took from it. Yep, it’s dirty oil. It’s like the Natty Lite of oil. And refining it is far more polluting than that champagne oil in the middle east. It’s also very damaging to the environment where they mine it, which is something l care about to a degree. 

However, if Canada wants to destroy their environment to mine their Natty Lite oil, who are we to say they can’t? Also, it does seem to be a better idea to buy oil from a friendly neighbor in Canada than it does the middle east, who seem to have mixed feelings about us westerners.

Also, in a lot of the pro columns, it indicated that refining that Natty Lite oil was something like 70 times less polluting than coal, which made me really think the coal industry is the one we should prioritize in phasing out. 

The jobs thing is the one l’m still unsure of. The construction of the pipeline will be great for jobs, but once completed it will employ less than 50 people. If we’re going to destroy an environment to refine Natty Lite oil anyway, l’m going to be in favor of employing as many people as possible in the process. 

The one thing l’m still unclear on is why are they shipping the oil to the gulf of Mexico to refine it anyway? Doesn’t Canada have their own refineries? And if not, is it really cheaper to go through all the trouble to ship it there than it would be to build their own refinery? 

[DieHardBrownsFan]

16 minutes ago, Ibleedbrown said:

I found this article helpful. Basically a pro and con article written in 2013 when the pipeline push was happening. 

https://alternativeenergy.procon.org/questions/should-the-united-states-authorize-the-keystone-xl-pipeline-to-import-tar-sand-oil-from-canada/

A few things l took from it. Yep, it’s dirty oil. It’s like the Natty Lite of oil. And refining it is far more polluting than that champagne oil in the middle east. It’s also very damaging to the environment where they mine it, which is something l care about to a degree. 

However, if Canada wants to destroy their environment to mine their Natty Lite oil, who are we to say they can’t? Also, it does seem to be a better idea to buy oil from a friendly neighbor in Canada than it does the middle east, who seem to have mixed feelings about us westerners.

Also, in a lot of the pro columns, it indicated that refining that Natty Lite oil was something like 70 times less polluting than coal, which made me really think the coal industry is the one we should prioritize in phasing out. 

The jobs thing is the one l’m still unsure of. The construction of the pipeline will be great for jobs, but once completed it will employ less than 50 people. If we’re going to destroy an environment to refine Natty Lite oil anyway, l’m going to be in favor of employing as many people as possible in the process. 

The one thing l’m still unclear on is why are they shipping the oil to the gulf of Mexico to refine it anyway? Doesn’t Canada have their own refineries? And if not, is it really cheaper to go through all the trouble to ship it there than it would be to build their own refinery? 

Natty lite is some fine beer.  So don't know what you are talking about from there.

[Ibleedbrown]

1 hour ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

Natty lite is some fine beer.  So don't know what you are talking about from there.

Shoulda gone with PBR for the analogy. Or maybe Schlitz.

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, Ibleedbrown said:

Shoulda gone with PBR for the analogy. Or maybe Schlitz.

I already posted it ibb. they're in denial-  its crap tar sand sludge and shale oil. At the projected 40 million gallons a day- build your own stinking refinery on the other side of the border. Why you so anxious to get rid of the stuff?  

[hammertime]

45 minutes ago, hoorta said:

I already posted it ibb. they're in denial-  its crap tar sand sludge and shale oil. At the projected 40 million gallons a day- build your own stinking refinery on the other side of the border. Why you so anxious to get rid of the stuff?  

so now Mr No it all Hoorta is an oil expert?

May as well as you spout your expertise on everything else.

Try shutting your mouth and listening to everything.  You are that asshole peacock at every party where people just cringe......

 

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, hammertime said:

so now Mr No it all Hoorta is an oil expert?

May as well as you spout your expertise on everything else.

Try shutting your mouth and listening to everything.  You are that asshole peacock at every party where people just cringe......

 

Try doing a little fucking research first- before you resort to belittling, it's not hard to do.  I called it crap oil and an environmental nightmare. Plenty of experts on my side FWIW. YOU refine it Canada- instead of shipping your crap elsewhere. 

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/04/alberta-canadas-tar-sands-is-growing-but-indigenous-people-fight-back/#close 

"Perhaps surprisingly, the oil sands don’t actually have any oil per se. Instead, a huge area about the size of Florida or Wisconsin north and east of Edmonton, Alberta, contains a tarry bitumen mixed with sand that is mined from underneath the boreal forest."  Mined? more like strip mined if it's near the surface.  Ever been far north or far high up in an altitude ecosystem? Well I have- in both.  YOU may not give a shit- but I do. It could well take centuries to undo the damage of sucking up that crap out of the ground in northern Alberta.  $$$ first, your price at the pump Job #1. the Trump mantra.  

Put on your thinking cap for a second what could (and will) happen if you try pumping an abrasive sand slurry thousands of miles through a pipeline?  Over the environmentally sensitive Ogallala Aquifer in Nebraska? That crap doesn't float FYI.  

[Westside Steve]

One more time hatred of Donald Trump and also thinking that Joe Biden Is a moron are not mutually exclusive positions.

Hypothetically, and I don't really expect a straight answer, let say Trump resigned and Mike Pence was president  How many of Bidens executive orders would you be defending today?

WSS

[DieHardBrownsFan]

10 hours ago, Ibleedbrown said:

Shoulda gone with PBR for the analogy. Or maybe Schlitz.

Piels, now that is some shit beer.

[Westside Steve]

19 minutes ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

Piels, now that is some shit beer.

Schlitz was the beer in Harry Callahan's refrigerator .

WSS

[hammertime]

not a premium beer like 

Heritage House......

[Ibleedbrown]

Gotta admit l’ve never heard of Piels.

Anyways, here’s the skinny on why Canada doesn’t refine their own oil.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nationalpost.com/news/canada/tristin-hopper-why-canada-shouldnt-refine-the-oil-it-exports/wcm/a013820c-3958-4f65-9729-9731d5ab6c74/amp/

Basically it’s a supply and demand thing. They do have refineries and they already export more oil than they use. Refineries are expensive, and theoretically they would like to refine more to sell because it would mean more jobs for Canadians, but there just isn’t the demand for it. Refined oil has a much shorter shelf life than the unrefined stuff, and the US is really good at refining it, so oil companies need to regulate when it gets refined and when it hits the market to prevent it from going bad.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

3 minutes ago, Ibleedbrown said:

Gotta admit l’ve never heard of Piels.

Anyways, here’s the skinny on why Canada doesn’t refine their own oil.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nationalpost.com/news/canada/tristin-hopper-why-canada-shouldnt-refine-the-oil-it-exports/wcm/a013820c-3958-4f65-9729-9731d5ab6c74/amp/

Basically it’s a supply and demand thing. They do have refineries and they already export more oil than they use. Refineries are expensive, and theoretically they would like to refine more to sell because it would mean more jobs for Canadians, but there just isn’t the demand for it. Refined oil has a much shorter shelf life than the unrefined stuff, and the US is really good at refining it, so oil companies need to regulate when it gets refined and when it hits the market to prevent it from going bad.

It's a beer I drank when I was stationed in New York.  Cheap, but tastes like water and loses carbonation after 10 seconds.

[Vambo]

9 hours ago, hoorta said:

Try doing a little fucking research first- before you resort to belittling, it's not hard to do.  I called it crap oil and an environmental nightmare. Plenty of experts on my side FWIW. YOU refine it Canada- instead of shipping your crap elsewhere. 

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/04/alberta-canadas-tar-sands-is-growing-but-indigenous-people-fight-back/#close 

"Perhaps surprisingly, the oil sands don’t actually have any oil per se. Instead, a huge area about the size of Florida or Wisconsin north and east of Edmonton, Alberta, contains a tarry bitumen mixed with sand that is mined from underneath the boreal forest."  Mined? more like strip mined if it's near the surface.  Ever been far north or far high up in an altitude ecosystem? Well I have- in both.  YOU may not give a shit- but I do. It could well take centuries to undo the damage of sucking up that crap out of the ground in northern Alberta.  $$$ first, your price at the pump Job #1. the Trump mantra.  

Put on your thinking cap for a second what could (and will) happen if you try pumping an abrasive sand slurry thousands of miles through a pipeline?  Over the environmentally sensitive Ogallala Aquifer in Nebraska? That crap doesn't float FYI.  

[Vambo]

[calfoxwc]

13 hours ago, hoorta said:

Try doing a little fucking research first- before you resort to belittling, it's not hard to do.  I called it crap oil and an environmental nightmare. Plenty of experts on my side FWIW. YOU refine it Canada- instead of shipping your crap elsewhere. 

[hoorta]

14 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

One more time hatred of Donald Trump and also thinking that Joe Biden Is a moron are not mutually exclusive positions.

Hypothetically, and I don't really expect a straight answer, let say Trump resigned and Mike Pence was president  How many of Bidens executive orders would you be defending today?

WSS

A bunch Steve. Trump was the most anti-environment president in history. The right wing chorus lamenting lost jobs on XL. They wouldn't be able to build that pipeline forever. I hope you know I've been anti-Wall from the get-go as a total waste of taxpayer dollars. 

FWIW I don't consider Biden a moron, but Trump is pretty close to one. The Republican fealty to Trump game will certainly be directly proportional to the amount of legal hot water Cheetos finds himself in over the next year. And every report I've read says that's going to be a lot.     History sort of repeating itself.... from the 1960s

"The FBI and local law enforcement, in a handful of instances, played a constructive role. The participation of Birch Society members in Barry Goldwater’s ultraconservative White House campaign deepened fears that a homegrown fascist movement would sow violence, pitting citizen against citizen. In a small town in Illinois, police broke up a Minutemen group armed with 81-mm mortars and machine guns that was planning to wage war on imagined communists inside the United States. The FBI recorded thousands of pages in its investigation of Birch activities as part of its Subversive Trends of Current Interest Program, and J. Edgar Hoover, despite his hatred for the left, refused to endorse the far-right theory that Eisenhower was a communist."   

A comment from someone far smarter than me- who pretty much nails my position.   

"I think the Republican Party started to lose any moral compass when in response to the  civil rights legislation of the 1960's many white southern democrats changed their affiliation to republican solely based on racism. Then the traditional limited government, low taxes and rich businessman party changed more in the late 1970's when Falwell's "moral majority" was invited into the fold. Then anti-abortion became part of the platform and buffoons like Mike Huckabee and Glenn Beck started to exert their influence and an enormous amount of energy was spent on trying to appoint judges who might overturn Roe v Wade. The republicans also became the party for gun rights which invited the right wing extremists. The republicans in congress are now pandering to their base consisting of white supremacists, anti-abortion advocates, religious extremists and now, after Trump, conspiracy theorists, xenophobes, and seditionists.  Republicans who are fiscally conservative but socially liberal have no place in the current republican party. Now it seems people who actually believe in democracy have no place in this party. Good luck trying to clean this one up. I don't think it's possible. Better to create a new party."

BTW Steve regarding the Republican Party  I'M OUT!!!  At least until they clean up their act, and kick the extreme right wing crazies out. Marjorie Taylor Greene is the straw that broke the camel's back. For the love of God, how does one lose that much grip on reality, and spew that much hatred of opposing views?  Pretty sure AOC (that I'm not particularly fond of)  has a better grip on reality than Taliban Greene in that 9\11 actually happened.  So here's your choice as I see it. Live in reality, or live in Trump's "big lie" alternate reality. I prefer the real thing- and I'll never vote for anyone who's still a Trumpista.   

[Ibleedbrown]

9 hours ago, hoorta said:

A comment from someone far smarter than me- who pretty much nails my position.   

"I think the Republican Party started to lose any moral compass when in response to the  civil rights legislation of the 1960's many white southern democrats changed their affiliation to republican solely based on racism. Then the traditional limited government, low taxes and rich businessman party changed more in the late 1970's when Falwell's "moral majority" was invited into the fold. Then anti-abortion became part of the platform and buffoons like Mike Huckabee and Glenn Beck started to exert their influence and an enormous amount of energy was spent on trying to appoint judges who might overturn Roe v Wade. The republicans also became the party for gun rights which invited the right wing extremists. The republicans in congress are now pandering to their base consisting of white supremacists, anti-abortion advocates, religious extremists and now, after Trump, conspiracy theorists, xenophobes, and seditionists.  Republicans who are fiscally conservative but socially liberal have no place in the current republican party. Now it seems people who actually believe in democracy have no place in this party. Good luck trying to clean this one up. I don't think it's possible. Better to create a new party."

BTW Steve regarding the Republican Party  I'M OUT!!!  At least until they clean up their act, and kick the extreme right wing crazies out. Marjorie Taylor Greene is the straw that broke the camel's back. For the love of God, how does one lose that much grip on reality, and spew that much hatred of opposing views?  Pretty sure AOC (that I'm not particularly fond of)  has a better grip on reality than Taliban Greene in that 9\11 actually happened.  So here's your choice as I see it. Live in reality, or live in Trump's "big lie" alternate reality. I prefer the real thing- and I'll never vote for anyone who's still a Trumpista.   

This is interesting stuff and sort of aligns with something that’s been bouncing around in my head lately. Basically, political parties can and will reinvent themselves. I remember from the history books that republicans were the “party of Lincoln”, and NO ONE from the south voted republican for decades after that. Well now most of the south votes for them. I think some of what you described above was responsible for how they reinvented themselves starting in the 60s.

I believe they are probably on the precipice of reinventing themselves again. Not like a major overhaul or anything, but a slight change of direction that may last a few decades and will be necessitated out of political survival.

Basically, in some areas they will need to disassociate themselves from right wing extremism in the way Trump never did. They will try to appeal to reason  and the folks who are sick of the hyperbolic rhetoric. This will in turn cause a similar toning down of the rhetoric from the democrats. But l think it will be republicans who take those first steps to the high road.

One area l think they might gain ground is the environment. After all, if we start moving towards cleaner sources of energy there will be a lot of work to do do get us there, and a lot of work means jobs. There are ways to spin a traditional republican objective onto something traditionally championed by democrats, and once they have a foot hold they can jockey to take the lead on it.     

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Lincoln Republicans = Socialists.

[Ibleedbrown]

Oddly enough l ran across this article that touches on some of the topics we’re discussing here. Not the article itself but the 6 minute news clip video at the top of it.

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/donald-trumps-entire-legal-team-041610892.html?.tsrc=daily_mail&uh_test=2_15

I couldn’t figure out how to post the video without the article, but the video touches on some of the infighting amongst the republican party and the goal of trying to unify it. Topics it touches on are Liz Chaney under fire, Rob Portman retiring, the Lincoln Party, and the push amongst some to disassociate with racism and conspiracy theorists within the party. 

If any of you watch it let me know if you have any insight.

[calfoxwc]

really? a long quote from an anonymous "smarter than" you?

A. isn't hard to find one.

B. had 'fraidsies" to mention who you were quoting?

C. Going all the way back to the sixties to fail to defend this current completely corrupt, leftwing radical org?

D. Frickin SERIOUSLY ?

E. LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

F. (major) Fail

G. Give all Americans who voted MAGA for THEIR COUNTRY...a warning point?

H.

[hammertime]

Shutting down this pipeline has zero to do with what’s actually going thru it.

 

its a partisan move 100%
 

there was no plan or discussion involved, just an executive order that wiped out over 10,000 good paying jobs.

 

anyone who backs the way this went down and how the workers are left hanging is a piece of shit.

[hoorta]

2 hours ago, hammertime said:

Shutting down this pipeline has zero to do with what’s actually going thru it.

its a partisan move 100%

there was no plan or discussion involved, just an executive order that wiped out over 10,000 good paying jobs.

anyone who backs the way this went down and how the workers are left hanging is a piece of shit.

Good paying temporary jobs hammer. I haven't seen 10,000 construction folks working on the Alaska pipeline from Prudhoe Bay lately.  And they would do exactly what when the pipeline was finished? It would only take a couple hundred monitoring jobs- at most when it was completed.   Sorry- crocodile tears, when there's tens of millions of folks out of work because of the covid pandemic.   

[DieHardBrownsFan]

[hammertime]

3 hours ago, hoorta said:

Good paying temporary jobs hammer. I haven't seen 10,000 construction folks working on the Alaska pipeline from Prudhoe Bay lately.  And they would do exactly what when the pipeline was finished? It would only take a couple hundred monitoring jobs- at most when it was completed.   Sorry- crocodile tears, when there's tens of millions of folks out of work because of the covid pandemic.   

You realize there is nothing that can change your stance 

Even the truth.

You are afflicted and will do and say whatever it takes to fulfill your TDS.

 

technically all construction jobs are temporary, guess you could care less about them also?

[calfoxwc]

what jobs are infinite, hoorta?

the TDS runs sickly and deeply.

the rationalizations are worthless.

 

[Ibleedbrown]

4 hours ago, hammertime said:

You realize there is nothing that can change your stance 

Even the truth.

You are afflicted and will do and say whatever it takes to fulfill your TDS.

 

technically all construction jobs are temporary, guess you could care less about them also?

I haven’t really found a good side by side comparison of jobs created with the pipeline vs. without. If anyone can find such a thing and post it here l would much appreciate it.

What l do know is Canada is already shipping the unrefined oil to the Gulf already. I figure it has to be by rail and/or trucking, but l don’t know percentages. My guess is trucks to get it to the rail, and then rail takes it most of the way where trucks may be needed to get it the rest of the way to the refineries. I just don’t know numbers of people employed through that whole process. 

[Westside Steve]

 look I don't think the government forced people to buy automobiles or started slaughtering horses even though the motor vehicle was the way of the future. Things have a way of working out. When you vehicles are practicpraand affordable people will buy them. 

WSS