Quarterback Merry Go Round

[Erie Dawg]

2 hours ago, The Gipper said:

 

 

I was including the guys that have been on the trade block.  We have seen  Goff, Stafford, Wentz traded so far.  Watson wants out.  Cam Newton is  out there.  Trubisky.  There is discussion about several others as well as potential trades/cuts:   Darnold, Bridgewater. Tua. Maybe a few others.  Plus, you have 4-5 possible first round picks who have to be included in the mix.  So, yea...12-15 potential QBs to fill spots.  That's a comparative "glut". 

None of them are even close to the same level including the potential 1st Rd pick this year. If you were a team like the Jag's or jets. I'd take a hard look at Dak and draft top level playmakers to surround him. I'm really not sold on the incoming QB class.

 

 

Not exactly.  If  Dallas exercises the tag....they control his destiny.   Yes but He gets paid 37 mil. Guaranteed for the year.

If they don't and let him go to free agency...then they control that as well. 

I don't see how the cowboys have any control if he takes a better offer.? 

He would control his own destiny then...ONLY to the point that someone else may also have an interest in him.   He can't just go where he wants, because  most of the league would have no interest in him as a FA.  He can't go to Seattle if he wants.  Or the Rams or Chargers or Cardinals, nor the Packers, Colts, Browns, Bengals, Titans....or many other teams.   He will have the choice perhaps of just a very few really:  those who want him and can afford him.   That eliminates probably  3/4ths of the  league....which would mean that maybe he would have at most  8 teams interested. Including maybe Dallas on a reduced deal. 

And we as Browns fans know the value in a Franchise QB and so does every other franchise. It's not like they are everywhere. And If there is interest from 8 other teams the cowboys could loose him if they don't play ball. 

 

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, SdBacker80 said:

I think some of you are underestimating Dak’s value to the Cowboys.  While we had a close view of that horrendous Defense and while it is noted and correct that they are far from a team that is one player away.   The one player that is being casually dismissed is the biggest part of the team in my opinion.  While I can respect going out and maybe drafting a rookie and the team (maybe) being better off down the road- is that a play out of Jerry’s impatient I want to win now book?   Is there a Bledsoe or Romo in the house to ease that transition?

Dalton?  And, OK, the fact that you point out that Jones is delusional about how good his team is makes sense.  And that is why he will probably tag, and maybe sign Dak.  His delusions of grandeur will make him do stupid things that will keep the Cowboys a shit team.   And Hooray for that.!

I saw a team that moved the ball well with Dak and hung around some shootouts with playoffs teams.  Yes, the Browns!!!  They quickly moved to team getting blown out, facing 8 man fronts and not being able to score or move the ball as Effectively.  

Well....the Browns defense is barely one step above the Cowboys.  At least we know we have a lot of work to do there. 
 

You could argue whether Dak is worth a long term deal for big money, but you need to consider the alternatives whether it is Jerry sitting through a rookie with no viable bridge QB like a Romo or spending draft capital and money to pluck a guy away like Stafford or Wentz which could at best be a lateral move and the Boys lose draft capital too unless you believe Dak is the 17th best QB.

Again and again and again...if they did go the rookie route, Dalton is a perfectly viable  "bridge QB".  Christ, he took the Bengals to the playoffs like  5 times.   And in my proposed scenario, the only draft capital they use on a QB is that first round pick, nothing else.  And that would leave them  to use the other like 30 million they would not spend on Dak on some OL and  Defense.  Their receivers and RB situation are fine.   They need to block and tackle better. 

 

 

 

[The Gipper]

5 minutes ago, Erie Dawg said:

 

I was including the guys that have been on the trade block.  We have seen  Goff, Stafford, Wentz traded so far.  Watson wants out.  Cam Newton is  out there.  Trubisky.  There is discussion about several others as well as potential trades/cuts:   Darnold, Bridgewater. Tua. Maybe a few others.  Plus, you have 4-5 possible first round picks who have to be included in the mix.  So, yea...12-15 potential QBs to fill spots.  That's a comparative "glut". 

None of them are even close to the same level including the potential 1st Rd pick this year. If you were a team like the Jag's or jets. I'd take a hard look at Dak and draft top level playmakers to surround him. I'm really not sold on the incoming QB class.

Ignoring the guys that were traded:  Cam has been a better QB in the past certainly. Could he be again?  And IMO, both Darnold and Trubisky are equal or better talents.  Yes, that's right. They just have not had a chance to show it in that they have had nowhere near the same kind of talented weapons that Dak has had. 

 

 

Not exactly.  If  Dallas exercises the tag....they control his destiny.   Yes but He gets paid 37 mil. Guaranteed for the year. Sure...but they still control that situation.

If they don't and let him go to free agency...then they control that as well. 

I don't see how the cowboys have any control if he takes a better offer.?    They control the fact that they can let him go...and by doing so, they control themselves and the fact that Dak will likely get nowhere near the money he expects elsewhere. 

He would control his own destiny then...ONLY to the point that someone else may also have an interest in him.   He can't just go where he wants, because  most of the league would have no interest in him as a FA.  He can't go to Seattle if he wants.  Or the Rams or Chargers or Cardinals, nor the Packers, Colts, Browns, Bengals, Titans....or many other teams.   He will have the choice perhaps of just a very few really:  those who want him and can afford him.   That eliminates probably  3/4ths of the  league....which would mean that maybe he would have at most  8 teams interested. Including maybe Dallas on a reduced deal. 

And we as Browns fans know the value in a Franchise QB and so does every other franchise. It's not like they are everywhere. And If there is interest from 8 other teams the cowboys could loose him if they don't play ball. 

The word is Lose, not loose.   And yes...they lose him.  That is the whole point, they lose a guy that they would have to pay 37 million dollars to who they DON"T want to pay that kind of money to. (or...have no business paying that kind of money to) .  Sayonara sucker.   Now...if he would agree to sign for maybe 25 million....they could keep him.   Even if any of you think Dak is in the Top 10-15 QBs in the league...he sure as hell is not in the top 3 QBs in the league....and that is what he would be paid like if they tagged him and paid him the 37 million. 

[Comeonman]

15 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Under my scenario,  YES, I want him to hit free agency.

Honestly:   Do any of you think that if he "hits" free agency and is on the open market that he is really going to get offers approaching  37 million dollars?  Given the potential glut of QBs available....given the  contracted salary cap,  who is going to come close to offering him that?    What team out there  would be able.....(cap wise)  and willing to give him that kind of money?   I can think of only  4 teams that could have some interest:    Washington, New England, Denver, Carolina....... and a couple of those would have to do some major cap maneuvering....and still I could see them only  offering something maybe 10 million less than what he wants. 

Absolutely. I could see him getting 35+ mill a year in today’s nfl. Getting that much and not even being a top 5 QB. I could see it. 

[The Gipper]

17 minutes ago, Comeonman said:

Absolutely. I could see him getting 35+ mill a year in today’s nfl. Getting that much and not even being a top 5 QB. I could see it. 

Well then there are some fucking idjit owners/GMs in this league.    But, hey, maybe the Girls will tag him, pay him all that money....and suck swamp water for the next  10 years. 

[SdBacker80]

53 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

 

Dalton couldn’t challenge any defense downfield thus the 8 man front thus no Zeke.  
You treat Andy Dalton like it’s 2017 and he’s shredding the Browns defense. 

Here’s the Dalton Bridge 

[The Gipper]

6 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

Dalton couldn’t challenge any defense downfield thus the 8 man front thus no Zeke.  
 

Here’s the Dalton Bridge 

He basically did just as well as Prescott.    Dalton was 2-3 as a starter.  Dak was 4-5. No appreciable difference as far as winning,  and like I said...a bridge is a bridge.  You cross it to get somewhere else...and that somewhere else is to you Top 10 drafted rookie.  And combined you would pay maybe  7 million at your QB position...not 37 million plus. 

[The Gipper]

Patriots no holds barred on finding a new QB:

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-patriots-exploring-every-potential-171103500.html

[SdBacker80]

2 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

He basically did just as well as Prescott.    Dalton was 2-3 as a starter.  Dak was 4-5. No appreciable difference as far as winning,  and like I said...a bridge is a bridge.  You cross it to get somewhere else...and that somewhere else is to you Top 10 drafted rookie.  And combined you would pay maybe  7 million at your QB position...not 37 million plus. 

your records are off and I’d argue the Cowboys wouldn’t be 6-10 with Dak playing 16 games. 
 

Dak had (3)450 plus yard games out of the 5 he played and The 5th game he didn’t play the whole game. 
 

Dalton had (1) 300 plus yard game out of 10 starts and threw at least one INT in 8 out of 10 starts. A Bridge to 6-10 with a second tier 2021 draft QB (good talents but projects) waiting in the wings that will inevitably be asked to play right away and throw a team on their back. 
 

[The Gipper]

Just now, SdBacker80 said:

your records are off and I’d argue the Cowboys wouldn’t be 6-10 with Dak playing 16 games. 

They were 4-5 with him....so that extrapolates to maybe they could have gotten to  7-9.    But hey...sure, Dak is not that team's problem personnel wise.   Like I said, he is a good QB.  10-15 range. They have a shit defense and their OL either got old or injured. 
 

Dak had (3)450 plus yard games out of the 5 he played and The 5th game he didn’t play the whole game.  .and that just proves that they threw the ball on every down. 
 

Dalton had (1) 300 plus yard game out of 10 starts and threw at least one INT in 8 out of 10 starts. A Bridge to 6-10 with a second tier 2021 draft QB (good talents but projects) waiting in the wings that will inevitably be asked to play right away and throw a team on their back. 

Well...think about it...if you defend Dak because the rest of the team was shite...then the same applies to Dalton.  And, I am not saying that Dalton is as good as Dak...now.   I am only saying that I don't think their talents are tremendously different.  And the fact is that historically Dalton has a better record....both in terms of winning and in terms of statistics as Dak.   And what do you mean?  Do you think a guy drafted 10th constitutes a "second tier" QB?   Both Mahomes and Watson were drafted in the  10-12 range.   And Dak was a 4th round pick.  So what does that make him?  A 9th tier QB? 
 

 

[5150k9]

16 hours ago, The Gipper said:

By ripping off and gouging the cold, sick, dying, people of Texas.   Which is exactly what he just did.

 https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2021/2/19/22289371/jerry-jones-profiting-misery-texas-winter-storm-explainer-power-grid-problem-dallas-cowboys-owner

Isn't that against the law, during a natural disaster?

[SdBacker80]

4 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

 

Dak is moving up your list I see 15-20 now 10-15...your opinion looks a little better now.

Regarding tiers...

I like Justin Fields.  But Fields and Trey Lance they will need some time.  They are projects.  That’s probably what’s left at their spot.   But Maybe we give credit to the Cowboys scouting department Dak was selected late and was ROY.  

[The Gipper]

1 minute ago, 5150k9 said:

Isn't that against the law, during a natural disaster?

Uhh....Not in Texas apparently.   A single oil companies paid like a million dollars  in campaign contributions to each of like  Abbott, the Gov.  Cruz, Rick Perry, former Gov.  and others.  (that was not Jerry Jones company...he may also have paid them huge bribes).   Basically to pass laws to have -0- regulations on the energy industry in that state.  By law they are allowed to A. make those bribes  B. Invest NO money into any weatherization or safety equipment  and C.  charge whatever they want to the point of outrageous gouging  with their prices in times of crisis.  They were apparently giving some people a  $17,000.00 monthly bill for their natural gas. 

[The Gipper]

Just now, SdBacker80 said:

Dak is moving up your list I see 15-20 now 10-15...your opinion looks a little better now.

Because Brees, Rivers retired.  I would have to scrutinize the QB situation for all 32 teams.....in fact, I think I did that with "QB tiers thread" that I did.  Will have to recheck what I did their. 

Regarding tiers...

I like Justin Fields.  But Fields and Trey Lance they will need some time.  They are projects.  That’s probably what’s left at their spot.   But Maybe we give credit to the Cowboys scouting department Dak was selected late and was ROY.  

Oh, yes,  he was a great 4th round pick.  If I recall think that I thought he was projected to go in round 2.  

 

[The Gipper]

OK,  here are the current starting QBs that I think I would rate ahead of  Dak:

Darnold

Ben R.    at least the BR from the first part of last year.....put question mark beside him

Allen

Ryan

Brady

Jackson

Tannehill

Burrow

Mayfield

Goff

Rodgers

Cousins....maybe

Mahomes

Watson

Carr....maybe

Herbert

Stafford

Garropolo...maybe

Wilson 

That is  15 for certain that I believe are better.    3-4 others that he is in the same boat as he perhaps. 

[Unsympathetic]

OverTheCap page on Cowboys

Cowboys salary is.. over the 2021 cap right now.  They do have some good young players to "build around" but.. they need several more to become a .500 team let alone a contender.

By way of comparison: Taki, Goodson, Mitch, Higgins, Porter Gustin, and someone named Teller have all been good low-cost performers on Cleveland this past season..

The case against spending extra on Dak is that they don't have any position group strength to spend 13% of their cap on one player.  The only way that's justifiable is if that one player is actually good enough to put the team on his back and make up for the stinking.  Finding players on the positive value side of the equation [so you're "under"paying for the results you're getting] is every team's goal for every roster spot.. and not everyone succeeds.  TB had several good position groups but no TB12 for years.

The issue is that the verysmall gap between Dak and Dalton's performance is nowhere near enough to make up for the reality that the roster has ... no discernable talent outside of OL, Elliot, and WR.  All levels of the defense are overpaid and not performing; no backups on either side other than Dalton are capable of "stepping up." And the 9M in dead money this season isn't helping.

I wouldn't take Demarcus Lawrence unless it was some sort of vet reclamation contract.. he's worth less than 1/3 of his 17M salary. Their LB's had paycheck motivation - even their so-called best players actually rated barely above mack wilson. DB's? Yikes.. This roster is not good enough to justify paying for more than a vet caretaker QB.. they really need to embrace a contract dump & draft pick rebuild.

Reality: Cowboys mortgaged the future to attempt to stay relevant the last few seasons - and that future is now.  I'd take the pain in 2021 -- there is no quick fix.  If this was to actually happen, side benefit for JJ: He could finally sell something different from the last 20 years.. competent leadership investing in the long-term outlook.

[The Gipper]

Jerry Jones will be 79 in October.   He is about the second worse pathological narcissist I have ever been aware of.  (guess who is 1st).   He has NO interest in "long term outlook"  now that he is facing his mortality (aren't we all?).  He wants to win now, and he  may think having Dak will do that for him. 

[SdBacker80]

2 hours ago, The Gipper said:

OK,  here are the current starting QBs that I think I would rate ahead of  Dak:

Darnold

Ben R.    at least the BR from the first part of last year.....put question mark beside him

Allen

Ryan

Brady

Jackson

Tannehill

Burrow

Mayfield

Goff

Rodgers

Cousins....maybe

Mahomes

Watson

Carr....maybe

Herbert

Stafford

Garropolo...maybe

Wilson 

That is  15 for certain that I believe are better.    3-4 others that he is in the same boat as he perhaps. 

No on
Ryan, Tannehill, Burrow, Goff, Cousins, Carr, Herbert, Stafford or Jimmy G. 
 

Yes on the remaining.
 

Puts him just inside of the Top 10. 
 

This Dak vs. Dalton comparison is cracking me up...ask any Cowboy fan and I know you have to search high and low for ones that aren’t delusional but find a sane one and ask them about the very small gap in performance with Andy D vs. Dak

Some of you are too fixated on the old Andy and some of you didn’t watch a lot of Big D football last season

[The Gipper]

3 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

No on
Ryan, Tannehill, Burrow, Goff, Cousins, Carr, Herbert, Stafford or Jimmy G. 
 

Yes on the remaining.
 

Puts him just inside of the Top 10. 

I said he is perhaps on par with Carr,  Cousins, Garrop.   Not the others.  He might at best squeeze into the Top 15. 

Anyone and everyone would bet on the futures of Burrow and Herbert over Dak.  You might argue on Goff.  The only possible argument on Ryan would be age.  Even there...at best he gets to 14....or 15, maybe. 

[SdBacker80]

1 minute ago, The Gipper said:

I said he is perhaps on par with Carr,  Cousins, Garrop.   Not the others.  He might at best squeeze into the Top 15. 

He’s better than those 3. 

[The Gipper]

1 minute ago, SdBacker80 said:

He’s better than those 3. 

Debateable at best.  Nevertheless  Carr is schedule to make  19.5 mill in 2021.  Cousins:  31 mill.  Garrop:  26 mill.    For an average of  25.5 mill.   That is about what Dak SHOULD be paid. That should be his market value.   

Fair to say? 

[SdBacker80]

41 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Debateable at best.  Nevertheless  Carr is schedule to make  19.5 mill in 2021.  Cousins:  31 mill.  Garrop:  26 mill.    For an average of  25.5 mill.   That is about what Dak SHOULD be paid. That should be his market value.   

Fair to say? 

I missed Darnold too...

you think that Darnold is better than Dak????

Is this a mistake on your part?  

[SdBacker80]

40 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Debateable at best.  Nevertheless  Carr is schedule to make  19.5 mill in 2021.  Cousins:  31 mill.  Garrop:  26 mill.    For an average of  25.5 mill.   That is about what Dak SHOULD be paid. That should be his market value.   

Fair to say? 

Well he’s the last to be paid and your market value is what someone is willing to pay.  And If Cousins is making 31M and I’m Daks agent I’m saying he should make more.

there are many Free Agency rankings and Dak tops the list so there are many opinions out there that he  the prize of this class 

[The Gipper]

7 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

I missed Darnold too...

you think that Darnold is better than Dak????

Yes. 

Is this a mistake on your part?  

No

Give Darnold Dak's weapons and he would prove as good or better.  

 

[The Gipper]

6 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

Well he’s the last to be paid and your market value is what someone is willing to pay.  And If Cousins is making 31M and I’m Daks agent I’m saying he should make more.

That is fine.....Cousins isn't really worth what he is paid, but I understand the argument. 

there are many Free Agency rankings and Dak tops the list so there are many opinions out there that he  the prize of this class 

But then, the other part of the argument is that he should not be paid as well as those other  15 or so QBs who are better than he  (though I know guys on rookie deals don't get paid). So, my argument is that he should not be paid more than an overpaid QB  who is about his equal in talent.  Two wrongs don't make a right. 

By the way...though I think Dak is in the middle of NFL QBs and that he should be paid nowhere near the 37 million.....I am perfectly OK with the Cowboys tagging and paying him.....because it fucks them up for a long long time.  And other than the Steelers and the Ravens, no team deserved to be fucked up for a long time more than they do. 

[hoorta]

On 2/22/2021 at 8:14 PM, Erie Dawg said:

Dak is in the driver's seat. Cowboys can't afford that unless they start dumping and cutting players. Jerry has to take his best swing at this. There are others teams that will outbid the cowboys if he doesn't.

He's good- but $37 million good? Tagging him really doesn't make financial sense, but we're talking Jerrah World here. 

On 2/22/2021 at 11:03 PM, Browns149 said:

Of those 4 teams, I could see Washington doing it for sure.  The owner there is an idiot.  And would do just about anything to keep his crap team in the news

Checking cap room- the Patriots have the room.  And Fig Newton is as good as gone.  Gipper- Newton positively stunk last year- worse even than Wentz.  

[hoorta]

10 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Uhh....Not in Texas apparently.   A single oil companies paid like a million dollars  in campaign contributions to each of like  Abbott, the Gov.  Cruz, Rick Perry, former Gov.  and others.  (that was not Jerry Jones company...he may also have paid them huge bribes).   Basically to pass laws to have -0- regulations on the energy industry in that state.  By law they are allowed to A. make those bribes  B. Invest NO money into any weatherization or safety equipment  and C.  charge whatever they want to the point of outrageous gouging  with their prices in times of crisis.  They were apparently giving some people a  $17,000.00 monthly bill for their natural gas. 

Regarding those insane utility bills. I sort of understand what happened (for some people) it was a supply and demand thing. Buy your energy on the open (Texas) market- and roll the dice. If there was NO supply and incredible demand- people were getting charged 300 times their normal bill. $2 bucks a day turned into $600.   MHO is there's going to be some roll backs.  One of the companies accused of gouging warned customers to switch a couple days ahead. Um sorry Charlie- those that tried to were told- we can take you on in around two weeks. Result = you were royally screwed. 

[Dutch Oven]

5 hours ago, hoorta said:

Regarding those insane utility bills. I sort of understand what happened (for some people) it was a supply and demand thing. Buy your energy on the open (Texas) market- and roll the dice. If there was NO supply and incredible demand- people were getting charged 300 times their normal bill. $2 bucks a day turned into $600.   MHO is there's going to be some roll backs.  One of the companies accused of gouging warned customers to switch a couple days ahead. Um sorry Charlie- those that tried to were told- we can take you on in around two weeks. Result = you were royally screwed. 

But companies are people too hoorta, and they'll always do right by their customers... 😁

[Dutch Oven]

Sam Darnold, better than Dak Prescott. 

Hilarious. 

[Erie Dawg]

18 hours ago, The Gipper said:

 

Ignoring the guys that were traded:  Cam has been a better QB in the past certainly. Could he be again?  And IMO, both Darnold and Trubisky are equal or better talents.  Yes, that's right. They just have not had a chance to show it in that they have had nowhere near the same kind of talented weapons that Dak has had. 

 Lol if cam was so great why isn't he in Carolina still and on his way out of NE?  Turbisky was benched how many times last year? If he was so great why'd they bench him? Darnold is just another USC over hyped QB.  That hasn't proven any thing other than he can throw just as many TD as int.

 

Sure...but they still control that situation.

Ok? If you feel that is somehow a win. Because if he walks and makes more who won. Not cash strapped Dallas.

If they don't and let him go to free agency...then they control that as well. 

 

The word is Lose, not loose.   And yes...they lose him.  That is the whole point, they lose a guy that they would have to pay 37 million dollars to who they DON"T want to pay that kind of money to. (or...have no business paying that kind of money to) .  Sayonara sucker.   Now...if he would agree to sign for maybe 25 million....they could keep him.   Even if any of you think Dak is in the Top 10-15 QBs in the league...he sure as hell is not in the top 3 QBs in the league....and that is what he would be paid like if they tagged him and paid him the 37 million. 

What ever the word is Jerry backed himself into the corner by either tagging him which they can't or paying him what his market value is which they may not be able to. But it's hard to let a franchise QB walk out the door. Which may happen if there are better offers out there.