Quarterback Merry Go Round

[nickers]

2 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Naturally the national media slobbers over anything Cowboys related.  Not sure why at this point since they have been a mediocre to shitty team for decades now.  But of course, tons of talk about what they should do with the "great"  Dak Prescott.  Well, I have an idea.    And note I put quotes around "great"  because, quite frankly  it is foolish IMO to think of Prescott as great.  He IS a good QB,  but I think he is vastly overrated just because he plays in Dallas.   I do NOT think, by any means that he is one of the best 10 QBs in the league.  I think he probably ranks between 15-20.    And they are  talking about tagging him for like  37 million bucks, which could make him like the 3rd highest paid qb in the league?  Pure Bologna.   Again, in my opinion, they have a guy backing him up,  Andy Dalton, who has career stats that are equal or better than Prescott.   And Dalton makes only like  3 million.  

So, what should the Cowboys do? :    Cut him loose.  Let him go to FA.  Do NOT place the franchise tag on him for  the 37 million.   Let him hit the open market.  Who is going to offer him anywhere near that?   Maybe someone, but more fool them. 

And they should  let Dalton start.....and  with that #10 pick they have in the draft,  take a QB of the future.  Or, if they can, move up several spaces in a trade to get one of Zack Wilson, or Justin Fields...and have a guy with a better upside leading their team  at rookie wage scale for the next 4 years.  

Not that I care if the Cowboys suck forever. I hope they do.  (and  in wanting that I would say:  put  37 million into Prescott....and let the rest of the team falter and be shite.......goody , goody).  But I am just talking basic  value here. 

I think people overrate him just because he is black...

[Dutch Oven]

4 minutes ago, nickers said:

I think people overrate him just because he is black...

I think people are right on the money when they call you a moron. 

[Erie Dawg]

2 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/PresDa01.htm

 

I have to vehemently disagree with you on the 15-20 QB league wide ranking.  The numbers in the link suggest otherwise. 
 

You bring up Andy D but how did he do this year in Dallas? 

You franchise him and work toward something  long term unless you find a plan B equal to him that doesn’t cost as much considering assets you have to give up and salary you need to pay.  Do you have any ideas on that replacement guy?  I don’t.  Perspective Wentz just cost the Colts two premium picks. 

Hindsight, probably would have been better to extend him before the tags came.   Keep in mind  his rookie deal was peanuts given his draft spot. 

I made silly statement on this forum after he got injured.  I said given the injury Dallas now holds all the chips.  Well I was wrong.  Here we are and I think Dak is in control. 

I don't think you're going to see Dallas franchise tag him That's a  37.7 million dollar hit this year if they do.

[Browns149]

1 hour ago, nickers said:

I think people overrate him just because he is black...

I think they overrate him because he’s on the Cowboys. 

[ATOM]

1 hour ago, nickers said:

I think people overrate him just because he is black...

wow that has to be one of the dumber things i have ever read

[nickers]

27 minutes ago, ATOM said:

wow that has to be one of the dumber things i have ever read

And now you're dumber for having commented...

[ATOM]

29 minutes ago, nickers said:

And now you're dumber for having commented...

smh

[SdBacker80]

1 hour ago, Erie Dawg said:

I don't think you're going to see Dallas franchise tag him That's a  37.7 million dollar hit this year if they do.

You have to unless you want him to hit free agency.  Running out of time at this point.

 

 

[Orion]

5 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

Running out of time at this point.

Tagging starts tomorrow (23rd) and ends March 9th.

[Erie Dawg]

11 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

You have to unless you want him to hit free agency.  Running out of time at this point.

 

 

Dak is in the driver's seat. Cowboys can't afford that unless they start dumping and cutting players. Jerry has to take his best swing at this. There are others teams that will outbid the cowboys if he doesn't.

[Comeonman]

1 hour ago, Erie Dawg said:

Dak is in the driver's seat. Cowboys can't afford that unless they start dumping and cutting players. Jerry has to take his best swing at this. There are others teams that will outbid the cowboys if he doesn't.

Exactly. Gotta disagree with you here, Gip. Dak is a top 10-15 guy by my eye test. You can’t let one of the best 10ish QBs in the world walk, even coming off that injury. Dak is gonna get paid. Doesn’t make a shit to me who pays him, but he’s gonna get paid. 

[Unsympathetic]

I think the first step is to determine what the "this" is that the Cowboys have.

They have an aging OL, an average RB paid like an AllPro and a defense that gave up the most points in a season in Cowboys history.

The 2020 Cowboys were the definition of a team based on "playmakers" - WR was the only team strength - and they went 6-10.

This isn't a very well-constructed team at present.  They're not just one player away.. they need both draft picks [young good players] and a new coach.. they have arguably the worst in the division.

I wouldn't resign Dak, they have more problems than one QB contract.

To those who worry about being relevant without "a QB".. they weren't relevant with him either.  They're not a playoff team next season no matter what they do.

[The Gipper]

5 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

No biggie... we all do sooner or later.

Gipper makes them all the time...  

And I am 99% correct, mule. 

[The Gipper]

7 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/PresDa01.htm

 

I have to vehemently disagree with you on the 15-20 QB league wide ranking.  The numbers in the link suggest otherwise. 

I think I could easily come up with  15 QBs in this league that would be preferable to Dak.  Though, between Brees and Rivers a couple may retire.  
 

You bring up Andy D but how did he do this year in Dallas? 

I posted the numbers right above here. They were not that far off Daks.

You franchise him and work toward something  long term unless you find a plan B equal to him that doesn’t cost as much considering assets you have to give up and salary you need to pay.  Do you have any ideas on that replacement guy?  I don’t.

And, I just told you:  You  have Dalton as the bridge QB and you draft a guy with the #10 pick...or you move up some:  So:  Fields, Wilson, Jones...or that other kid from ND St. 

 Perspective Wentz just cost the Colts two premium picks.   

Hindsight, probably would have been better to extend him before the tags came.   Keep in mind  his rookie deal was peanuts given his draft spot. 

Sure, but they didn't and they are stuck with this situation.  They could have had him for a lot less....for something more commensurate with his "value"

I made silly statement on this forum after he got injured.  I said given the injury Dallas now holds all the chips.  Well I was wrong.  Here we are and I think Dak is in control. 

ONLY if the Cowboys allow him to be in control.   If they say:  Dak...take a walk, we will use Dalton and draft a guy.    then they are in control.

 

[The Gipper]

5 hours ago, nickers said:

I think people overrate him just because he is black...

Not because of that....because he is a Cowboy. 

[The Gipper]

4 hours ago, Browns149 said:

I think they overrate him because he’s on the Cowboys. 

OK....I owe you a Coke. 

[The Gipper]

2 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

You have to unless you want him to hit free agency.  Running out of time at this point.

 

 

Under my scenario,  YES, I want him to hit free agency.

Honestly:   Do any of you think that if he "hits" free agency and is on the open market that he is really going to get offers approaching  37 million dollars?  Given the potential glut of QBs available....given the  contracted salary cap,  who is going to come close to offering him that?    What team out there  would be able.....(cap wise)  and willing to give him that kind of money?   I can think of only  4 teams that could have some interest:    Washington, New England, Denver, Carolina....... and a couple of those would have to do some major cap maneuvering....and still I could see them only  offering something maybe 10 million less than what he wants. 

[The Gipper]

2 hours ago, Erie Dawg said:

Dak is in the driver's seat. Cowboys can't afford that unless they start dumping and cutting players. Jerry has to take his best swing at this. There are others teams that will outbid the cowboys if he doesn't.

Again, he is only in the driver seat if the Cowboys let him be.   Let the other teams bid. ...see my above post.   Cowboys, IMO would be better off letting other teams outbid them. 

[Browns149]

1 minute ago, The Gipper said:

Under my scenario,  YES, I want him to hit free agency.

Honestly:   Do any of you think that if he "hits" free agency and is on the open market that he is really going to get offers approaching  37 million dollars?  Given the potential glut of QBs available....given the  contracted salary cap,  who is going to come close to offering him that?    What team out there  would be able.....(cap wise)  and willing to give him that kind of money?   I can think of only  4 teams that could have some interest:    Washington, New England, Denver, Carolina....... and a couple of those would have to do some major cap maneuvering....and still I could see them only  offering something maybe 10 million less than what he wants. 

Of those 4 teams, I could see Washington doing it for sure.  The owner there is an idiot.  And would do just about anything to keep his crap team in the news

[Browns149]

2 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Again, he is only in the driver seat if the Cowboys let him be.   Let the other teams bid. ...see my above post.   Cowboys, IMO would be better off letting other teams outbid them. 

The cowboys would be better off letting teams outbid them, but Jerrah isn’t going to let that happen

[Browns149]

Let the cowboys and Indians jack up the price for a qb that hasn’t won a damn thing

[The Gipper]

42 minutes ago, Unsympathetic said:

I think the first step is to determine what the "this" is that the Cowboys have.

They have an aging OL, an average RB paid like an AllPro and a defense that gave up the most points in a season in Cowboys history.

The 2020 Cowboys were the definition of a team based on "playmakers" - WR was the only team strength - and they went 6-10.

This isn't a very well-constructed team at present.  They're not just one player away.. they need both draft picks [young good players] and a new coach.. they have arguably the worst in the division.

I wouldn't resign Dak, they have more problems than one QB contract.

To those who worry about being relevant without "a QB".. they weren't relevant with him either.  They're not a playoff team next season no matter what they do.

There you go.  Well said.   If Dak were the key to this team contending for a title....sure, the analysis, the need for him being the major issue for that team, then maybe you think about giving him the farm.  But that is a shit team that needs a vast infusion of talent in a lot of places.  Giving Dak  37 million of your salary cap assures they stay a shit team.    And that may be fine:  if you can't stand the Cowboys and their owner.   Let them both rot as far as I am concerned.   I am only putting forth the  argument for what any NFL, regardless of who they are, should look at. 

[The Gipper]

2 minutes ago, Browns149 said:

The cowboys would be better off letting teams outbid them, but Jerrah isn’t going to let that happen

Probably not.   Someone mentioned the WTF  idiot owner....Jones IMO is on the next rung of the ladder up from that guy.   So they probably will give him the tag. 

[Browns149]

1 minute ago, The Gipper said:

Probably not.   Someone mentioned the WTF  idiot owner....Jones IMO is on the next rung of the ladder up from that guy.   So they probably will give him the tag. 

Jones needs to go away. He won 3 titles because of Jimmy Johnson. They haven’t even made the conference title game since. 
Let the football people do the football stuff. And make your BILLIONS being a business man

[The Gipper]

2 minutes ago, Browns149 said:

Jones needs to go away. He won 3 titles because of Jimmy Johnson. They haven’t even made the conference title game since. 
Let the football people do the football stuff. And make your BILLIONS being a business man

By ripping off and gouging the cold, sick, dying, people of Texas.   Which is exactly what he just did.

 https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2021/2/19/22289371/jerry-jones-profiting-misery-texas-winter-storm-explainer-power-grid-problem-dallas-cowboys-owner

[ballpeen]

10 hours ago, The Gipper said:

And I am 99% correct, mule. 

Is that all the time, or when you are correct?😁

[Erie Dawg]

10 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Under my scenario,  YES, I want him to hit free agency.

Honestly:   Do any of you think that if he "hits" free agency and is on the open market that he is really going to get offers approaching  37 million dollars? 

Who knows stranger things have happened. Some team could step up and give a more team-friendly first year or two incentive-based and back load the rest of the contract.

 

 

Given the potential glut of QBs available....given the  contracted salary cap,  who is going to come close to offering him that? 

I don't know who you are referring to when you say potential glut of quarterbacks.If you're looking at the current list of free agents right now DAk is number one by far on that list.

 

  What team out there  would be able.....(cap wise)  and willing to give him that kind of money?   I can think of only  4 teams that could have some interest:    Washington, New England, Denver, Carolina....... and a couple of those would have to do some major cap maneuvering....and still I could see them only  offering something maybe 10 million less than what he wants. 

Yes in hindsight he should have probably signed for the 33-mil per year. But I don't think anybody knew that there was going to be a "pandemic" or that he was going to get hurt. And given the current situation of the salary cap being lower doesn't help his market. But nonetheless he controls his destiny.

 

 

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, ballpeen said:

Is that all the time, or when you are correct?😁

I am pretty good with my facts....because facts are facts.     My  predictions?   Fair.  My opinions?  They are always my opinions...for whatever they are worth.   I started this thread, obviously to provoke debate.  

[The Gipper]

Under my scenario,  YES, I want him to hit free agency.

Honestly:   Do any of you think that if he "hits" free agency and is on the open market that he is really going to get offers approaching  37 million dollars? 

Who knows stranger things have happened. Some team could step up and give a more team-friendly first year or two incentive-based and back load the rest of the contract.

Sure, who knows.  Remains to be seen.

 

 

Given the potential glut of QBs available....given the  contracted salary cap,  who is going to come close to offering him that? 

I don't know who you are referring to when you say potential glut of quarterbacks.If you're looking at the current list of free agents right now DAk is number one by far on that list.

I was including the guys that have been on the trade block.  We have seen  Goff, Stafford, Wentz traded so far.  Watson wants out.  Cam Newton is  out there.  Trubisky.  There is discussion about several others as well as potential trades/cuts:   Darnold, Bridgewater. Tua. Maybe a few others.  Plus, you have 4-5 possible first round picks who have to be included in the mix.  So, yea...12-15 potential QBs to fill spots.  That's a comparative "glut". 

 

  What team out there  would be able.....(cap wise)  and willing to give him that kind of money?   I can think of only  4 teams that could have some interest:    Washington, New England, Denver, Carolina....... and a couple of those would have to do some major cap maneuvering....and still I could see them only  offering something maybe 10 million less than what he wants. 

Yes in hindsight he should have probably signed for the 33-mil per year. But I don't think anybody knew that there was going to be a "pandemic" or that he was going to get hurt. And given the current situation of the salary cap being lower doesn't help his market. But nonetheless he controls his destiny.

Not exactly.  If  Dallas exercises the tag....they control his destiny.   If they don't and let him go to free agency...then they control that as well.  He would control his own destiny then...ONLY to the point that someone else may also have an interest in him.   He can't just go where he wants, because  most of the league would have no interest in him as a FA.  He can't go to Seattle if he wants.  Or the Rams or Chargers or Cardinals, nor the Packers, Colts, Browns, Bengals, Titans....or many other teams.   He will have the choice perhaps of just a very few really:  those who want him and can afford him.   That eliminates probably  3/4ths of the  league....which would mean that maybe he would have at most  8 teams interested. Including maybe Dallas on a reduced deal. 

[SdBacker80]

I think some of you are underestimating Dak’s value to the Cowboys.  While we had a close view of that horrendous Defense and while it is noted and correct that they are far from a team that is one player away.   The one player that is being casually dismissed is the biggest part of the team in my opinion.  While I can respect going out and maybe drafting a rookie and the team (maybe) being better off down the road- is that a play out of Jerry’s impatient I want to win now book?   Is there a Bledsoe or Romo in the house to ease that transition?

I saw a team that moved the ball well with Dak and hung around some shootouts with playoffs teams.  Yes, the Browns!!!  They quickly moved to team getting blown out, facing 8 man fronts and not being able to score or move the ball as Effectively.  
 

You could argue whether Dak is worth a long term deal for big money, but you need to consider the alternatives whether it is Jerry sitting through a rookie with no viable bridge QB like a Romo or spending draft capital and money to pluck a guy away like Stafford or Wentz which could at best be a lateral move and the Boys lose draft capital too unless you believe Dak is the 17th best QB.