Clay Matthew HOF Finalist!

[nickers]

what time are the announcements?

[The Gipper]

3 hours ago, nickers said:

what time are the announcements?

I guess during the TV show set for tonight. 

How to watch

Show: 2021 NFL Honors
Date: Saturday, Feb. 6
Time: 9 p.m. ET
Location: Virtual
TV: CBS
Stream: CBS All Access

[The Gipper]

Clay gets fucked over:

The rolling announcement of inductees takes place over a two-hour window. Below are the names of the Class of 2021, added here as they are announced at NFL Honors on CBS:

Charles Woodson, Calvin Johnson, Drew Pearson, Alan Faneca, Bill Nunn, John Lynch, Tom Flores, and Peyton Manning. .

 And while I don't have a problem with who has been put on...I personally think Woodson could have waited a couple of years to let Clay in there, who was every bit the impact player. 

[gumby73]

imho...the fuckery was in, when Alan Faneca than John Lynch were announced..  

https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/browns/clay-matthews-jr-2021-hall-of-fame/95-f75efb29-6eef-4b70-b9aa-7155d4f8b52f

[hoorta]

2 hours ago, gumby73 said:

imho...the fuckery was in, when Alan Faneca than John Lynch were announced..  

https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/browns/clay-matthews-jr-2021-hall-of-fame/95-f75efb29-6eef-4b70-b9aa-7155d4f8b52f

Both marginal inductees, IMHO.  

[TexasAg1969]

2 hours ago, hoorta said:

Both marginal inductees, IMHO.  

Lynch is not marginal in my biased opinion. Long overdue.😁

[nickers]

Jesus christ the fuckery continues...

[Bob806]

10 hours ago, gumby73 said:

imho...the fuckery was in, when Alan Faneca than John Lynch were announced..  

https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/browns/clay-matthews-jr-2021-hall-of-fame/95-f75efb29-6eef-4b70-b9aa-7155d4f8b52f

Seriously, is there some kind of rule that says a Steeler has to get in the HOF every damn year?

[Dutch Oven]

Hate to say it, but I'm not surprised. 

I mean, was Clay Matthews ever a great player? A player that other teams feared? (I'm seriously asking, because while he was on the teams I grew up with, I don't recall him being considered a great player, and maybe my memory of him is hazy).

He kind of strikes me as a "compiler". A guy who has really good career stats because he played forever, but never really was a great player. A good, above average starting caliber player who played forever. If I'm wrong, feel free to show why, because as I said, my memory of him is hazy. 

I just remember often people talking about how "if the Browns had kept Chip Banks or if Don Rogers hadn't died they would have had a much better chance vs Elway", which is kind of weird to hear if the Browns still had a Hall of Fame OLB on the team during that whole run in Clay Matthews. 

[Dutch Oven]

And if Drew Pearson can get into the Hall of Fame with 489 receptions, at 16.0 yards/reception and 48 career touchdowns, then how about Gary Collins? He had 331 receptions, at 16.0 yards/reception and 70 career touchdowns, playing in an era less known for passing than Pearson. Also, Collins was a good punter. 

[The Gipper]

6 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Lynch is not marginal in my biased opinion. Long overdue.😁

I agree with this.  And I believe Faneca deserved to be in.  He had waited some time.  Both of these guys had waited.   It is why I said that I think Woodson should wait.....acknowledging that he would go in at some point in a year or two.    But, they decided to leave off  a deserving person in his last chance. 

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

Hate to say it, but I'm not surprised. 

I mean, was Clay Matthews ever a great player? A player that other teams feared? (I'm seriously asking, because while he was on the teams I grew up with, I don't recall him being considered a great player, and maybe my memory of him is hazy).

He kind of strikes me as a "compiler". A guy who has really good career stats because he played forever, but never really was a great player. A good, above average starting caliber player who played forever. If I'm wrong, feel free to show why, because as I said, my memory of him is hazy. 

I just remember often people talking about how "if the Browns had kept Chip Banks or if Don Rogers hadn't died they would have had a much better chance vs Elway", which is kind of weird to hear if the Browns still had a Hall of Fame OLB on the team during that whole run in Clay Matthews. 

Maybe Dutch  only remembers the flashy guys.  Because Clay may not have been a flashy guy, but he was a very solid, top level guy.  Maybe if he had grown his hair out long like his son he may have impressed more people.  

And another clue:  Often times "compilers" DO get into the HOF, even if that is all you thought of him.

On the other topic:  the fact is, the more good players you have on your team, the better that team is you would hope.  So, yes, if Don Rogers had lived...and lived up to what we thought he could be, they very well may have had a better chance against Elway.  All we needed was 1 or 2 passes broken up. 

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

And if Drew Pearson can get into the Hall of Fame with 489 receptions, at 16.0 yards/reception and 48 career touchdowns, then how about Gary Collins? He had 331 receptions, at 16.0 yards/reception and 70 career touchdowns, playing in an era less known for passing than Pearson. Also, Collins was a good punter. 

These are good points.   Also compare  Collins numbers to Lynn Swann.  (they are as good or better).   Swann is only in over Collins because his team had those 4 titles. 

Many may think that because he was Paul Warfield's running mate for years that he does not warrant inclusion. 

As for other former Browns who are not in but should be,   Dick Shafrath may have the best case:  5 time All Pro.    All Decade team for the 60s. 

 

[The Gipper]

By one metric,   the following are the Ten guys  who are eligible  may be the most Hall of Fame worthy, but have not been elected:

1. Jim Marshall   DL  Vikings

2. Ken Anderson  QB  Bengals

3. Jim Tyrer*   OT  Bears

4. Eric Allen  DB Eagles/Raiders

5. Lomas Brown    OT  Lions/Cards...1 year with Browns

6. Mike Kenn  OL   Falcons

7. Steve Wisniewski  OL  Raiders

8. Reggie Wayne #   WR  Colts

9. Ronde Barber#  DB  Bucs

10. Ken Riley  DB Bengals

# Wayne and Barber were finalists this year.

* Tyrer would be considered one of the Top 5 best OL  in history....but for the fact that he committed a murder/suicide  of he and his wife just a few years after he retired from football, before he was HOF eligible.  (from Ohio State fyi)

I don't think Jim Marshall is in because his Purple People Eater buddies  Carl Eller and Alan Page are already in, and they may not want to add another,  but he deserves it. Unless they are holding that wrong way run against him. 

[The Gipper]

Well, think about this:   At least the PFHOF  put some people in.

Just a week or so ago the Baseball HOF decided that not a single player would be good enough to get in.     You have to achieve  75%  to get elected:

Hall of Fame voting results for class of 2021^[6][7]

Player	Votes	Percent	Change	Year
Curt Schilling	285	71.1%	1.1%	9th
Barry Bonds	248	61.8%	1.1%	9th
Roger Clemens	247	61.6%	0.6%	9th
Scott Rolen	212	52.9%	17.6%	4th
Omar Vizquel	197	49.1%	3.5%	4th
Billy Wagner	186	46.4%	14.7%	6th
Todd Helton	180	44.9%	15.7%	3rd
Gary Sheffield	163	40.6%	10.1%	7th
Andruw Jones	136	33.9%	14.5%	4th
Jeff Kent	130	32.4%	4.9%	8th
Manny Ramirez	113	28.2%	0.0%	5th
Sammy Sosa	68	17.0%	3.1%	9th
Andy Pettitte	55	13.7%	2.4%	3rd
Mark Buehrle	44	11.0%	–	1st
Torii Hunter	38	9.5%	–	1st
Bobby Abreu	35	8.7%	3.2%	2nd

 

Next year will be telling...it is the final year on the ballot for  Bonds, Clemens, Schilling, Sosa.

[Bob806]

2 hours ago, The Gipper said:

 

As for other former Browns who are not in but should be,   Dick Shafrath may have the best case:  5 time All Pro.    All Decade team for the 60s. 

 

Hanford Dixon as well. 

[Tour2ma]

15 hours ago, gumby73 said:

https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/browns/clay-matthews-jr-2021-hall-of-fame/95-f75efb29-6eef-4b70-b9aa-7155d4f8b52f

Hard to believe it's been 25 years since Clay played his last game...

[hoorta]

13 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Hate to say it, but I'm not surprised. 

I mean, was Clay Matthews ever a great player? A player that other teams feared? (I'm seriously asking, because while he was on the teams I grew up with, I don't recall him being considered a great player, and maybe my memory of him is hazy).

He kind of strikes me as a "compiler". A guy who has really good career stats because he played forever, but never really was a great player. A good, above average starting caliber player who played forever. If I'm wrong, feel free to show why, because as I said, my memory of him is hazy. 

I just remember often people talking about how "if the Browns had kept Chip Banks or if Don Rogers hadn't died they would have had a much better chance vs Elway", which is kind of weird to hear if the Browns still had a Hall of Fame OLB on the team during that whole run in Clay Matthews. 

I've said it a ton of times. If Clay played for the Steelers- he'd have been in- long ago.  

[hoorta]

11 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Well, think about this:   At least the PFHOF  put some people in.

Just a week or so ago the Baseball HOF decided that not a single player would be good enough to get in.     You have to achieve  75%  to get elected:

Hall of Fame voting results for class of 2021^[6][7]

Player	Votes	Percent	Change	Year
Curt Schilling	285	71.1%	1.1%	9th
Barry Bonds	248	61.8%	1.1%	9th
Roger Clemens	247	61.6%	0.6%	9th
Scott Rolen	212	52.9%	17.6%	4th
Omar Vizquel	197	49.1%	3.5%	4th
Billy Wagner	186	46.4%	14.7%	6th
Todd Helton	180	44.9%	15.7%	3rd
Gary Sheffield	163	40.6%	10.1%	7th
Andruw Jones	136	33.9%	14.5%	4th
Jeff Kent	130	32.4%	4.9%	8th
Manny Ramirez	113	28.2%	0.0%	5th
Sammy Sosa	68	17.0%	3.1%	9th
Andy Pettitte	55	13.7%	2.4%	3rd
Mark Buehrle	44	11.0%	–	1st
Torii Hunter	38	9.5%	–	1st
Bobby Abreu	35	8.7%	3.2%	2nd

 

Next year will be telling...it is the final year on the ballot for  Bonds, Clemens, Schilling, Sosa.

The juicer penalty Gipper- pretty plain.   

[The Gipper]

2 minutes ago, hoorta said:

The juicer penalty Gipper- pretty plain.   

Right of course.  The question will be: will a lot of writers deem it punishment enough for Bonds and Clemens to have waited until their final year of being on the ballot before they let them in.  They had HOF careers and possibly first ballot careers before they started juicing.  Will they relent. 

[hoorta]

2 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Right of course.  The question will be: will a lot of writers deem it punishment enough for Bonds and Clemens to have waited until their final year of being on the ballot before they let them in.  They had HOF careers and possibly first ballot careers before they started juicing.  Will they relent. 

MHO? NOPE. They didn't let McGuire in- the others will be waiting as long as Shoeless Joe Jackson.  Baseball has higher standards.  Based on stats, Pete Rose is first ballot HOF, but he slimed himself out of consideration.  

[The Gipper]

4 minutes ago, hoorta said:

MHO? NOPE. They didn't let McGuire in- the others will be waiting as long as Shoeless Joe Jackson.  Baseball has higher standards.  Based on stats, Pete Rose is first ballot HOF, but he slimed himself out of consideration.  

With Jackson and Rose however the league gave them a lifetime disqualification (which in Jackson's case has lasted now  70 years, which is  7 years long than the length of his lifespan)...... .....neither Bonds nor  Clemens received that kind of judgment.   Their only judgment has been from the writer's  not writing their names down in sufficient numbers ....though their numbers have been going up steadily.   MCGuire is a good example though of what may happen. 

[Dutch Oven]

7 hours ago, hoorta said:

I've said it a ton of times. If Clay played for the Steelers- he'd have been in- long ago.  

I don't deny this either. 

[Tour2ma]

16 hours ago, hoorta said:

I've said it a ton of times. If Clay played for the Steelers- he'd have been in- long ago.  

Or if there wasn't a contemporary OLB who rewrote the record books on his way to becoming that position's GOAT.

Hard to shine in the shadow LT cast.

[Orion]

On 2/7/2021 at 10:06 AM, Dutch Oven said:

I mean, was Clay Matthews ever a great player? A player that other teams feared? (I'm seriously asking, because while he was on the teams I grew up with, I don't recall him being considered a great player,

I didn't have the guts to say that, but I won't leave ya hangin'.  

I also watched his whole career (not every game obviously).  I never thought of him as a great player.  I thought he was a good player, but not elite.  The guy I really liked was Mike Johnson.  

Having said that, I hope he gets in the Hall.  He was a talented Browns player.

[BrownsfaninPa]

Well clay got passed over again. The only thing i disagree with the players that were selected was Calvin Williams and Alan Fanaca. Maybe next year.

[Gunz41]

25 minutes ago, BrownsfaninPa said:

Well clay got passed over again. The only thing i disagree with the players that were selected was Calvin Williams and Alan Fanaca. Maybe next year.

Who is Calvin Williams? I think Matthews AND Boselli AND Faneca have WAY more reason to be in over this Williams guy 

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, BrownsfaninPa said:

Well clay got passed over again. The only thing i disagree with the players that were selected was Calvin Williams and Alan Fanaca. Maybe next year.

You mean Calvin Johnson