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tiamat63

2021 'Who are you watching?' NFL prospect thread.

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20 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Seems to be where most of the projections put him.

Linky link? I've honestly read no other opinions on him or pretty much all of these other players save from some of the posters on this board.     

Curious as to what other minds arrived at.  Minds who get paid for their opinions.     =(

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23 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Will do. 

Looking forward to that. He's a force as both ND and OSU can attest. 

Edit: Here is a start.

 

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On 3/22/2021 at 2:43 PM, tiamat63 said:

Linky link? I've honestly read no other opinions on him or pretty much all of these other players save from some of the posters on this board.     

Curious as to what other minds arrived at.  Minds who get paid for their opinions.     =(

More a reference to where Jones falls in many rankings, e.g., CBS at #61, than detailed analyses.

Oddly TDN has him ranked much lower, in the 120s, but has this fairly glowing breakdown...

Quote

Pittsburgh defensive end Patrick Jones II takes his talents to the NFL after a strong junior and senior campaign where he racked up a combined 24 tackles for loss and 17.5 sacks in 22 games. Jones II is a balanced defender, capable of making an impact as a pass rusher and run defender but he doesn’t offer much in the way of scheme-versatility—he’s a 4-3 defensive end with almost no experience in a standup role, dropping in coverage, or playing on the interior. As a pass rusher, Jones II is hard-charging out of his stance and brings a good variety of moves to the table. He’s a smart run defender that competes for his gap, processes quickly, and understands how to counter blocks. The concerns with Jones II entering the next level is his lean frame, modest length, and the need to continue developing his hand technique. Jones II has the upside to start in the NFL and command a majority of the snaps in an even front defense.  

 

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On 3/24/2021 at 12:22 AM, Tour2ma said:

More a reference to where Jones falls in many rankings, e.g., CBS at #61, than detailed analyses.

Oddly TDN has him ranked much lower, in the 120s, but has this fairly glowing breakdown...

 

Not sure what tape they were watching.  "Variety of moves"...?!  Uhhh sure.

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On 3/22/2021 at 8:19 PM, TexasAg1969 said:

Looking forward to that. He's a force as both ND and OSU can attest. 

Edit: Here is a start.

 

I appreciate the link but as a general rule of thumb, I never watch somebody else's material or breakdown when going through my initial prospect viewings.  I want to walk into something with an open mind and a clean slate, Just let the film speak for itself.  I find this way I avoid outside influence that might slip in and influence my opinion for the better or worse before I can formulate my own thoughts.

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Sleeper here, insane combine numbers and versatile D lineman apparently

Milton Williams

6’3”

286 lbs

32 bench reps

35” vert

4.63 40 yard dash

 

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@TexasAg1969

 

This was my first viewing of Barmore.  

 

 

Initial thoughts. 

- ND acquitted themselves very nicely in this game on the IOL.

- While CB is incredibly strong and showed some anchor against an elite IOL, he also looked to play a bit high consistently which fucked him over hard.  He got out leveraged a good bit.

- Because of his higher pad level, he seems to fire off a little slower but good news is that his arm extension is solid and his hands work well.  They're heavy and he's a brawler.    But he doesn't seem to misplace them by getting into the OL face.

- His lateral play and agility is.... lacking.   Granted I understand that isn't all his game but getting across his face wasn't an overly difficult task for ND.

- Pocket push against single is very hit or miss.   High pads don't help.    

- When he does win the inside shoulder he walks people back, but does so simply because he just overpowers lineman.  Not easy, so it just displays his strength.  Even when he does drive back, his balance and feet aren't always under him so you see him being "re-directed" by the ND OL.

 

I have to ask what I'm seeing here that would make him so elite that I would consider him 1st round?  A fine player? Absolutely.   Potentially great? Sure.   But his ceiling looks Linval Joseph-ish....  So if you aren't that transcendent talent at IDL, is my 1st round investment worth it? Will he be someone that helps this team get over the hump come playoff time?  Keep in mind that Linval was a 2nd round pick.       CB's physically overpowering play style is not all that dissimilar from Javon Kinlaw who had a very up and down year with SF.    By the end of this game the ND line was pretty worn down but the Bama defense rotates their line like a swarm.  Whoever #48 is did some serious damage in that rotation when CB wasn't getting snaps.   I'm going to have to watch more and I do remember him playing well against tOSU.   But my own team building philosophy and importance placed where I would hypothetically draft IDL might not allow me to be completely enamored with Barmore.  

He's disruptive enough to merit further watch though and that is absolutely what I will be doing.

 

 

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Whether it is 49ers or Falcons- both are great spots for Justin Fields.  I think he needs a year to make up for his lack of college Reps. But I think he develops down the road. 
 

I knew he was going to wow during the workout. 

 

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11 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

@TexasAg1969

 

This was my first viewing of Barmore.  

 

 

Initial thoughts. 

- ND acquitted themselves very nicely in this game on the IOL.

- While CB is incredibly strong and showed some anchor against an elite IOL, he also looked to play a bit high consistently which fucked him over hard.  He got out leveraged a good bit.

- Because of his higher pad level, he seems to fire off a little slower but good news is that his arm extension is solid and his hands work well.  They're heavy and he's a brawler.    But he doesn't seem to misplace them by getting into the OL face.

- His lateral play and agility is.... lacking.   Granted I understand that isn't all his game but getting across his face wasn't an overly difficult task for ND.

- Pocket push against single is very hit or miss.   High pads don't help.    

- When he does win the inside shoulder he walks people back, but does so simply because he just overpowers lineman.  Not easy, so it just displays his strength.  Even when he does drive back, his balance and feet aren't always under him so you see him being "re-directed" by the ND OL.

 

I have to ask what I'm seeing here that would make him so elite that I would consider him 1st round?  A fine player? Absolutely.   Potentially great? Sure.   But his ceiling looks Linval Joseph-ish....  So if you aren't that transcendent talent at IDL, is my 1st round investment worth it? Will he be someone that helps this team get over the hump come playoff time?  Keep in mind that Linval was a 2nd round pick.       CB's physically overpowering play style is not all that dissimilar from Javon Kinlaw who had a very up and down year with SF.    By the end of this game the ND line was pretty worn down but the Bama defense rotates their line like a swarm.  Whoever #48 is did some serious damage in that rotation when CB wasn't getting snaps.   I'm going to have to watch more and I do remember him playing well against tOSU.   But my own team building philosophy and importance placed where I would hypothetically draft IDL might not allow me to be completely enamored with Barmore.  

He's disruptive enough to merit further watch though and that is absolutely what I will be doing.

One thing I noticed especially through the 1st half was that he drew a ton of double teams. If we take him they will not be able to do that against MG, SR and Barmore all at the same time. Now if we add Clowney to that mix...............quadruple terror for the QB. If we don't then we actually might see a real improvement to McKinley with those other 3 in the lineup with him. Somebody would get in almost every play. And even in his later years Jackson is no easy match either. I like what is happening in our DL. Barmore might be a bit raw, but I have confidence our D coaches can fix it quick. I'm getting excited about this DL for the coming season.

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Kollmann 5 underrated part 2 -- Cam McGrone, Nico Collins, Osa Odighizuwa, Creed Humphrey, and Jamar Johnson. Highlights:

McGrone over Jamin Davis, Collins dropped 20 pounds and dominated the Senior Bowl with newfound separation while retaining his obvious ball skills, Odi is 6'2 280# with 34" arms whose playstyle resembles Tuitt [start at 5T, move to 3T for passing downs], Humphrey's a plug-and-play C even though he may fall out of rd1, and Jamar is the Indiana S who picked Fields 2x.. likely best fit as near-LOS S bc only weakness is raw speed; short-area-quickness and intelligence are ridiculous.

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Jamin Davis is the guy we want if backer is the call.

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, ballpeen said:

Jamin Davis is the guy we want if backer is the call.

 

 

 

 

Don’t know much about him.

Can he tackle?  I’m so sick of watching weak @$$ tackle attempts from Mack Wilson 

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On 3/31/2021 at 8:20 AM, TexasAg1969 said:

One thing I noticed especially through the 1st half was that he drew a ton of double teams.

 

If we take him they will not be able to do that against MG, SR and Barmore all at the same time.

 

Now if we add Clowney to that mix...............quadruple terror for the QB.

 

If we don't then we actually might see a real improvement to McKinley with those other 3 in the lineup with him.

 

 I like what is happening in our DL. Barmore might be a bit raw, but I have confidence our D coaches can fix it quick. 

- Of course he did.  Notre Dame was committed to running the ball on the interior early and often.  As a result, Barmore was in there heavily on 1st and 2nd downs.  As the game wore on? Not so much.    Also, Barmore plays the shade or nose so naturally he draws the most double teams.  Any big body will by proximity of assignment alone.    What he does against that chip help is really what to watch.    He has elite strength, but he's a giant of a human being so he damn well had better be strong.    But being strong alone isn't enough, which is where my concerns start to come in.

 

- Barmore wasn't in the rotation during obvious passing downs.  So you're right, they won't be able to double MG, SR and Barmore all at the same time.  Because the likely hood they see the field at the same time will again be early downs and redzone work.  

 

- Clowney is an alright solution, but I would hardly call him a "terror".     If anything Aaron Donald and Khalil Mack have made a fool of his career numbers despite not being the #1 overall.

 

- I hope we see improvement to McKinley period.  The next best lineman he's played with was Grady Jarrett.

 

- "Quick" is relative.  Barmore is a mountain of a man that might not have the natural ability to play as low as necessary to be effective.  Even then, he's a 2 down player for at minimum the next 2 years while he works with professional coaches on technique and conditioning.    Even if your flame develops an elite run stopping percentage, I can get most of that value back on Day 2 while I invest in either CB, WR or Edge day 1.  

 

 

 

 

 

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On 4/1/2021 at 7:18 AM, Unsympathetic said:

Kollmann 5 underrated part 2 -- Cam McGrone, Nico Collins, Osa Odighizuwa, Creed Humphrey, and Jamar Johnson. Highlights:

McGrone over Jamin Davis, Collins dropped 20 pounds and dominated the Senior Bowl with newfound separation while retaining his obvious ball skills, Odi is 6'2 280# with 34" arms whose playstyle resembles Tuitt [start at 5T, move to 3T for passing downs], Humphrey's a plug-and-play C even though he may fall out of rd1, and Jamar is the Indiana S who picked Fields 2x.. likely best fit as near-LOS S bc only weakness is raw speed; short-area-quickness and intelligence are ridiculous.

Hey, two Michigan guys. I'll take it :)

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4 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

"Quick" is relative.  Barmore is a mountain of a man that might not have the natural ability to play as low as necessary to be effective.  Even then, he's a 2 down player for at minimum the next 2 years while he works with professional coaches on technique and conditioning.    Even if your flame develops an elite run stopping percentage, I can get most of that value back on Day 2 while I invest in either CB, WR or Edge day 1. 

My question on Edge is do you think there will still be one who can impact immediately still there @ #26? One good enough to get less double teaming of MG?

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4 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

My question on Edge is do you think there will still be one who can impact immediately still there @ #26? One good enough to get less double teaming of MG?

Haven't watched enough to give you that answer... yet.    I know it sure ain't looking like Patrick Jones.   I believe this is why you're seeing the early smoke from the Browns focusing on DB's.

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11 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Haven't watched enough to give you that answer... yet.    I know it sure ain't looking like Patrick Jones.   I believe this is why you're seeing the early smoke from the Browns focusing on DB's.

If you get a chance take a look at Jaelan Phillips of Miami, though he may be long gone by #26.

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On 4/3/2021 at 8:54 PM, TexasAg1969 said:

If you get a chance take a look at Jaelan Phillips of Miami, though he may be long gone by #26.

it's said here that Phillips had a better pro day than Rousseau.  I honestly believe the Browns will trade up for

the player they want - no higher than #20

https://www.brownsnation.com/espns-todd-mcshay-projects-gregory-rousseau-to-browns/

 

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10 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

it's said here that Phillips had a better pro day than Rousseau.  I honestly believe the Browns will trade up for

the player they want - no higher than #20

https://www.brownsnation.com/espns-todd-mcshay-projects-gregory-rousseau-to-browns/

 

Phillips' 4.56 and to 4.59  40 speed is blazing for a man that size.Not a bad 3 cone either.

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Because of where the Browns are at - this draft is ridiculous to predict. Been watching video of Joe Tryon.

Pretty interesting. Some reports say he'll be a better 3-4 OLB, he needs coached up, but could turn out to be  a steal as an edge rusher. All he lacks is a few extra moves and experience...

Sure, I hope he falls to the Browns in the second round, but ain't going to happen.

Who knows who falls into the twenties within reach of the Browns?

nobody. It's crazy.

 

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talk is Caleb Farley could drop in the first round because if his "minor" back surgery. don't know about that surgery at all. Only an expert on knees lol.

big risk? or no?

https://www.brownsnation.com/caleb-farley-could-be-an-option-for-browns-on-draft-day/

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2 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

Because of where the Browns are at - this draft is ridiculous to predict. Been watching video of Joe Tryon.

Pretty interesting. Some reports say he'll be a better 3-4 OLB, he needs coached up, but could turn out to be  a steal as an edge rusher. All he lacks is a few extra moves and experience...

Sure, I hope he falls to the Browns in the second round, but ain't going to happen.

Who knows who falls into the twenties within reach of the Browns?

nobody. It's crazy.

 

I thought he was an end of first round/second round guy 

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https://www.nfl.com/prospects/milton-williams/32005749-4c45-4157-cbf6-f99ade2bc77d

^^^I like this guy as second day draftee.  Athlete who uses hands knows the leverage game well. I’ll take it 

 

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/jaylen-twyman/32005457-5943-0123-fc3b-ed1775019dff

^^^beginning of day 3.  Again smallish uses hands well.  His Film shows him tossing around guys.

 

Greg Rousseau’s frame!!! I think we could get 2/3 deflections a game from him.  The knock on him is winning one on one against tackles.  so he’s not the complete prospect yet- fine.  When he kicked inside he was destroying interior lineman...here’s a thought...let’s kick him inside on pass rush downs he either wins or gets those long arms in the way. 

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1 hour ago, SdBacker80 said:

The knock on him is winning one on one against tackles.  so he’s not the complete prospect yet- fine.  When he kicked inside he was destroying interior lineman...here’s a thought...let’s kick him inside on pass rush downs he either wins or gets those long arms in the way. 

Sounds like Michael Bennett in the early days.  The only problem is you can't be THAT one dimensional.  I need some type of edge rush generated.  

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12 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Sounds like Michael Bennett in the early days.  The only problem is you can't be THAT one dimensional.  I need some type of edge rush generated.  

True and maybe it is just a matter of soaking up some NFL coaching learning some pass rush techniques.  Building strength too core and lower body.   If the work ethic is there you can mold a 6’7’” long framed athlete.   15 1/2 sacks in 2019 while being pretty raw.  Impressive. 

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4 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

True and maybe it is just a matter of soaking up some NFL coaching learning some pass rush techniques.  Building strength too core and lower body.   If the work ethic is there you can mold a 6’7’” long framed athlete.   15 1/2 sacks in 2019 while being pretty raw.  Impressive. 

Maybe's it's just me, but players that tall on the edge give me worries on their hip flexibility and bend.     Dion Jordan coming out of Oregon being taken so high was a knee slapper and that's what I tend to think of.

Julius Peppers is the only edge that damn tall who really comes to mind?     Most of the great I can think of are between 6'2 and 6'5.  

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9 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Maybe's it's just me, but players that tall on the edge give me worries on their hip flexibility and bend.     Dion Jordan coming out of Oregon being taken so high was a knee slapper and that's what I tend to think of.

Julius Peppers is the only edge that damn tall who really comes to mind?     Most of the great I can think of are between 6'2 and 6'5.  

I see Calais Campbell early stages of career if he fills out.  Campbell was taller I believe too. 

When you watch some of the tape on him he gets small when bringing the heat inside...he slips past blockers pretty well.

He’s a converted WR/Safety HS with 1 year of DE experience.  There’s a ton of room to grow.

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54 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Sounds like Michael Bennett in the early days.  The only problem is you can't be THAT one dimensional.  I need some type of edge rush generated.  

Interesting background story on Michael. TE Brother Martellus was considered the big catch as the #1 overall player in Texas HS football. A&M got him signed after they also offered his brother Michael a schollie. Everyone thought that was just using the leverage to get Martellus on the bottom line, but over time Michael turned out to be the real 5 star pro, not Martellus.

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