**** Ravens at Browns Gameday thread

[jiggins7919]

4 minutes ago, Comeonman said:

True. Sure did miss Denzel last night. Can’t say that enough. That Stewart guy really screwed up a lot. 

Yeah, he really shat the muffin last night, didn't he? Poor guy was out of position, committing penalties, not tackling, poor angles...the complete list. Lol. You know what the difference in the game kind of was? We didn't get that signature Myles Garrett play. I'm not blaming the guy obviously...but it's what we needed. 

It's really difficult to watch a team with an injured, subpar defense. We all knew that we couldn't fix BOTH sides of the ball in one year, but damn it's hard to stomach when you see guys just wide ass open streaking all over the place. 😂

All focus shifts to Sunday night....in what is now a must win of biblical proportions. It reminds me a little too much of 2007. We needed to beat a bad Cincy team to clinch the playoffs, and we couldn't do it. This is a very scary game for us, and we need to take care of business. 

[FALCON7]

Myles did nothing, except for helping Lamar get back in...

[jiggins7919]

11 minutes ago, hoorta said:

That's our entire starting secondary.  Would we have won that game if they were all playing? I'll say probably. FWIW, even without them- we win if Par-kay Margarine hadn't reverted to form in big games, froze up in the cold, and missed a FG and extra point.   

I said last week that Parky scared me. People said I was nuts, lol. The reason I was terrified was that he was virtually perfect and that's not realistic. He was due for some misses and they literally came at the worst possible time. 🤦‍♂️

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, browns52 said:

gip......we neee defense....defense....defense.....defense wins games....you need offense also....but defense wins games....and i agree, the fo coulp have done something about it....no doubt.....and don't count you r chickens just yet.....the gints game will not be a pushover game for us....why.....we have no defense and jones can pick us apart...and guess what,,,,,the gints are playing great d.....scares the shit out of me...game we should win but..........

I am not sure how that is responsive to what I wrote.  Yes, we need defense, and I am saying there were some veteran leaders on defense that have been out there walking the street that we could have had at our positions of most dire need.  I am specifically talking Clay Mathews and Earl Thomas.  Yes, aging stars.....but veteran leaders who could have been far superior to some of the detritus we have had at their positions. 

[FALCON7]

4 hours ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

Lamar was making the types of plays that a typical quarterback has ZERO business making. Our defense simply isn’t equipped, in its current state, to stop such a player. Most teams can’t stop LJ. We need players like Delpit and run stopping LBs to slow down that offense.

The 3rd and 10 was a good play by the offense. Good read, throw, and catch.

The defense played very well last week, creating turnovers and containing Derrick Henry. 
 

Losing sucks, I get it.. especially to the Ratbirds.

Yeah right, only allowed 28 points in the 2nd half.

[jiggins7919]

Ball security...anyone else hope we're working on that this week? If I'm the Giants, I'm preaching all week long to get that ball out. Good lord we couldn't keep the damn ball safe. We are the better team, but the biggest equalizer in NFL football is the turnover margin. 

[SdBacker80]

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

Not enough love being shown to Money Mitch.  He's done pretty decent for being shoved into a #1 and #2 corner role.

He may get paid too.  Weak CB free agent class.  

[browns52]

14 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

I am not sure how that is responsive to what I wrote.  Yes, we need defense, and I am saying there were some veteran leaders on defense that have been out there walking the street that we could have had at our positions of most dire need.  I am specifically talking Clay Mathews and Earl Thomas.  Yes, aging stars.....but veteran leaders who could have been far superior to some of the detritus we have had at their positions. 

yes it does apply to what you wrote...you said the fo could have done a better job with trying to get some fa's on d...i just built it up a little as to what you were saying...i totally agree as to what you said about the fo....

[browns52]

5 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

I'm really struggling with our defense. I want to be realistic because we're so injured, but who isn't? Ward always misses big games every year. We don't have a single linebacker who will play next year except possibly Taki on run downs. Everyone else is toast. And you know what? I can't think of any excuse good enough for giving up that 3rd and 10 to the backup. That WAS the game. 

Let me ask you something else. When is the last time our defense actually stopped someone to win a game? Don't say Jacksonville. They gave up yet another TD to Mike Glennon. MIKE GLENNON. Look at Dallas and Tennessee games. The only reason we won is because of our offense. If we can play keep away, we can win. If we're expecting our defense to win the game, good luck with that. We give up more game tying or game losing drives in the 4th quarter than anyone I can remember. The Bengals game? How about BOTH of them. 

Let's focus on last night. Look at before the half...our offense shits the bed and needs help. Just hold them to 3 we said (a punt was obviously not going to happen). Nope. They score a TD on the worst defense in recorded history. How about the last part of the 4th quarter? Nope. They gave up how many drives in the final minutes? Jesus man, someone make a play. The offense can't bail you out EVERY time. 

I'm proud of our offense, our coach, and our QB. But I don't think anyone on our defense can look in the mirror this morning. Ravens haven't scored this many points since the LAST time they beat us. Have some damn pride defense. 

OK...I'm feeling better. Thanks for the vent! 

Go Brownies! Stay mad, stay angry, and beat the shit out of the Giants. 

i knew when there backup made that 3rd and 10 it was over.....that is why the browns better watch out for daniel jones this week....he could slice and dice this defense up like a butcher.....there game plan should be pass pass pass....

[browns52]

Just now, browns52 said:

i knew when there backup made that 3rd and 10 it was over.....that is why the browns better watch out for daniel jones this week....he could slice and dice this defense up like a butcher.....there game plan should be pass pass pass....

oh and by the way, my high school team could probably drive 80 yds in three plays like most teams do against this pos defense....

[Flugel]

15 hours ago, Neo said:

I don't think anyone wants to say this because he is easily the best coach we've had in decades, but Stefanski deserves some heat for this game too. I thought he made some good calls throughout the game, but the overall gameplan was terrible. You need to keep their offense off the field as much as possible, throwing early into their good secondary plays right into their hands. We don't really have a playmaker at WR other than Landry, so I guess now you see the value of Beckham. Baker is not a quarterback that is going to carve up a defense. He has made some strides but he is still not there yet. That near pick 6 was atrocious. 

Very good post.  As for the part in bold above - here's my take.  Baker carved up that defense yesterday so I think we can forgive his 1st INT in the last 5 games. Don't forget this team was down 28-14 late in the 3rd quarter.   I thought he played well under pressure.

[browns52]

6 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

The missed tackle didn’t aggravate me.  It was the sloppy effort on the play where Dobbins had like 10-12 yard gain where Mack kinda gave it a HS try and put out a weak tackle attempt.

Mack Wilson has been all bark no bite...doesn’t have consistent effort play to play 

yeah, i disappointed in wilson....thought he would be better....

[browns52]

16 hours ago, Axe said:

Y'know? A turnover/take away would be really cool

the only turnovers our secondary or lb's get are the ones at your local supermarket...

[Orion]

19 hours ago, Neo said:

I think it's obvious that we need Beckham back. Beckham is our #1, Higgins can be or #2 and Landry in the slot because he has the knack for getting open and he catches everything.

I have said that same thing about liking Landry in the slot.  Like a Wes Welker, or his replacement Eddleman.  Not having OBJ makes Landry & Higgins (or Hodge) to be covered by more talented DB's.  

----------

I think both teams put everything they had into that game.  It was a really good game.  It would've been a great game...had we won.  But both teams deserved to win.

Our team is not perfect.  Our defense is not good enough...and it's decimated with injuries.  But isn't this a hell-of-a-lot better than when we were hoping to win 16 - 10?  Because we had a bum QB with a bum OL?  Gimme a good offense first...so I can enjoy the games...then build a championship defense.

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

Very good post.  As for the part in bold above - here's my take.  Baker carved up that defense yesterday so I think we can forgive his 1st INT in the last 5 games. Don't forget this team was down 28-14 late in the 3rd quarter.   I thought he played well under pressure.

And didn't he carve up the Titans defense the week before...to the tune of 4 TD passes in a single half?

[ATOM]

20 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

We need a new D coordinator.  I was excited about the hire but just had all the wrong moves this year sorry.

spin this anyway you want it.  The game was lost when we played man coverage and had our backs turned to Jackson 

why didnt we stay in zone ? for fucks sake 

[SdBacker80]

20 minutes ago, ATOM said:

why didnt we stay in zone ? for fucks sake 

He’s getting a pass because of the talent on that side of the ball. 

[Tour2ma]

6 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Not enough love being shown to Money Mitch.  He's done pretty decent for being shoved into a #1 and #2 corner role.

Here, here...

I'm also growing fonder of Goodson. Seems to be improving week to week. Like Mitchell he's a UFA in 2021. Also like Mitchell he's high on our D's snap percentage list. Goodson has been onfield for 89.5% of the snaps. Mitchell leads the D at 99.2%.

He's one of two LBs I'd like to see resigned with the other being Smith who just seems like a solid vet and the kind of guy you'd want in your LB room.

[SdBacker80]

6 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Here, here...

I'm also growing fonder of Goodson. Seems to be improving week to week. Like Mitchell he's a UFA in 2021. Also like Mitchell he's high on our D's snap percentage list. Goodson has been onfield for 89.5% of the snaps. Mitchell leads the D at 99.2%.

He's one of two LBs I'd like to see resigned with the other being Smith who just seems like a solid vet and the kind of guy you'd want in your LB room.

Smith Goodson Taki Wilson...is the plan to bring them all back?  My hope is a starter is found in free agency and another is found Day 1 or 2 of the draft. 

[Neo]

6 hours ago, Flugel said:

Very good post.  As for the part in bold above - here's my take.  Baker carved up that defense yesterday so I think we can forgive his 1st INT in the last 5 games. Don't forget this team was down 28-14 late in the 3rd quarter.   I thought he played well under pressure.

That pick lead directly to 7 points. I have been patient with Baker, this is still a young football team and I think they are very close to announcing themselves to the rest of the NFL, but not yet. We need Beckham back and healthy and Hooper back and healthy to see how all these pieces fit together. I think Baker has the best chemistry with Landry 1st, Higgins 2nd. It'll be interesting to see if Odell can fit in, I just don't think he has a large body of work to determine that yet.

[Neo]

2 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

Smith Goodson Taki Wilson...is the plan to bring them all back?  My hope is a starter is found in free agency and another is found Day 1 or 2 of the draft. 

From what i've heard,  we have a ton of cap space, let's see of there are any playmakers available in FA this year.

[Neo]

10 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Jesus... I just don't get some of you...

 

Gents... we just went toe to toe with a team that beat us senseless a mere 3 months ago.

I'm not saying I'm unhappy, but we are this close to finally being able to put the past behind us and have teams fear us for years to come. We went toe to toe with them but I don't enjoy second place. All the stuff I have been critical about is all fixable. The overall gameplan vs the Ravens was terrible. This is the AFC North, this team needs to buckle their chin straps put it to the other team. We passed WAY more than I was comfortable with when you have a two headed monster like Chubb and Hunt. You don't always have to break long runs with the run game for it to be effective. All we needed was to stay ahead of the chains and keep their offense off the field. Once I seen the way they were approaching the game, I knew it was going to be a long night. Stefanski did make some good calls though, going for it when he did, challenging that one play when he did, playing the game within the game with the Ravens players getting on and off the field. 

I have faith they will get it figured out. I think the team trusts him. 

[The Gipper]

10 hours ago, Neo said:

I'm not saying I'm unhappy, but we are this close to finally being able to put the past behind us and have teams fear us for years to come. We went toe to toe with them but I don't enjoy second place. All the stuff I have been critical about is all fixable. The overall gameplan vs the Ravens was terrible. This is the AFC North, this team needs to buckle their chin straps put it to the other team. We passed WAY more than I was comfortable with when you have a two headed monster like Chubb and Hunt. You don't always have to break long runs with the run game for it to be effective. All we needed was to stay ahead of the chains and keep their offense off the field. Once I seen the way they were approaching the game, I knew it was going to be a long night. Stefanski did make some good calls though, going for it when he did, challenging that one play when he did, playing the game within the game with the Ravens players getting on and off the field. 

I have faith they will get it figured out. I think the team trusts him. 

Well...I think the score dictated some of the game plan.  When you get 14 points behind, usually you have to throw more to try to catch up.  Well...that worked.  

Now, if you are talking about their Defensive game plan....that indeed was not something to be comfortable with. 

[Unsympathetic]

12 hours ago, Neo said:

From what i've heard,  we have a ton of cap space

We do NOT have long-term cap space. It's misinformation to state that we do.  Each time ESPN shows a graphic with that number.. it's wrong.

[Misinformation is when the person asserting the information is wrong but is unaware they're wrong; Disinformation is a deliberate attempt to spread false info]

2020 Browns cap liabilities [salary]: $198,199,046.  2020 salary cap: 198,200,000.  Gap: $954.. aka the cost of fixing the starter on the Browns team bus.

The "cap space" as listed is the one-year accounting relic from our years of being under.  Key concept: nothing gets fixed long-term on one or two 1-yr deals.  As well, the 2021 cap hasn't been set yet - and could be a decrease , down to 175M.

Let's say you want to sign a LB and a DB for next season.  They're good players and so both want 10M/yr for 3 years.  Next year: Great! Done!  Two years from now, we'd be 10M over [The 30M is all one-year so in this example we used 20 of the 30 in 2021 but added 20M to salary liabilities for 22,23] and have both Ward and Chubb to resign.  This is why I've been saying on many threads that we need to think about the "cap" as just a vehicle for the bonus to resign the players we draft who turn out to be good -- the player looks at the total $$ but the "cap" number would be lower if more was a bonus.

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, Unsympathetic said:

We do NOT have long-term cap space. It's misinformation to state that we do.  Each time ESPN shows a graphic with that number.. it's wrong.

[Misinformation is when the person asserting the information is wrong but is unaware they're wrong; Disinformation is a deliberate attempt to spread false info]

2020 Browns cap liabilities [salary]: $198,199,046.  2020 salary cap: 198,200,000.  Gap: $954.. aka the cost of fixing the starter on the Browns team bus.

The "cap space" as listed is the one-year accounting relic from our years of being under.  Key concept: nothing gets fixed long-term on one or two 1-yr deals.  As well, the 2021 cap hasn't been set yet - and could be a decrease , down to 175M.

Let's say you want to sign a LB and a DB for next season.  They're good players and so both want 10M/yr for 3 years.  Next year: Great! Done!  Two years from now, we'd be 10M over [The 30M is all one-year so in this example we used 20 of the 30 in 2021 but added 20M to salary liabilities for 22,23] and have both Ward and Chubb to resign.  This is why I've been saying on many threads that we need to think about the "cap" as just a vehicle for the bonus to resign the players we draft who turn out to be good -- the player looks at the total $$ but the "cap" number would be lower if more was a bonus.

If that is the case, then why is that not reported for all teams that way?  Why are they always reporting what you say basically are mirage numbers?  I mean, if you know about this, then why don't the networks, the league, the teams know about it? 

[Nero]

On 12/15/2020 at 6:31 PM, jiggins7919 said:

You know what I especially loved, guys? How we fought BACK.

Unlike some people who left the Tavern in the beginning of the 3rd quarter... 

[Vambo]

 

[bjh2130]

15 hours ago, Neo said:

From what i've heard,  we have a ton of cap space, let's see of there are any playmakers available in FA this year.

If we go splurge on a playmaker this offseason you can say goodbye to 2 of the 3 chubb, baker, and ward unless they were to give us a huge discount. Yes we have about 30 million in cap space but it is roll-over cap which is generally used to resign your young players who deserve it. It is also used sometimes to make a splash signing when your championship window is large and your young talented guys still have a multiple years on their contract. Essentially if we spend all our rollover cap this offseason (I doubt we do) it would indicate we are all in for that 1 upcoming year.

[bjh2130]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

If that is the case, then why is that not reported for all teams that way?  Why are they always reporting what you say basically are mirage numbers?  I mean, if you know about this, then why don't the networks, the league, the teams know about it? 

The teams and the league do know about it.  If you do some research on cap space and rollover cap it will make a ton of sense to you.  However I believe I've seen you argue about rollover cap multiple times so it doesn't seem you want to learn it. 

[bjh2130]

2 hours ago, Unsympathetic said:

We do NOT have long-term cap space. It's misinformation to state that we do.  Each time ESPN shows a graphic with that number.. it's wrong.

[Misinformation is when the person asserting the information is wrong but is unaware they're wrong; Disinformation is a deliberate attempt to spread false info]

2020 Browns cap liabilities [salary]: $198,199,046.  2020 salary cap: 198,200,000.  Gap: $954.. aka the cost of fixing the starter on the Browns team bus.

The "cap space" as listed is the one-year accounting relic from our years of being under.  Key concept: nothing gets fixed long-term on one or two 1-yr deals.  As well, the 2021 cap hasn't been set yet - and could be a decrease , down to 175M.

Let's say you want to sign a LB and a DB for next season.  They're good players and so both want 10M/yr for 3 years.  Next year: Great! Done!  Two years from now, we'd be 10M over [The 30M is all one-year so in this example we used 20 of the 30 in 2021 but added 20M to salary liabilities for 22,23] and have both Ward and Chubb to resign.  This is why I've been saying on many threads that we need to think about the "cap" as just a vehicle for the bonus to resign the players we draft who turn out to be good -- the player looks at the total $$ but the "cap" number would be lower if more was a bonus.

I couldn't agree more. Sorry I hadn't seen your reply before I replied to the same misconception that we have a ton of cap space because of our rollover cap.