**** Ravens at Browns Gameday thread

[SdBacker80]

1 hour ago, Nero said:

I don't remember having heard the name Mack Wilson announced last night in the whole game. At least Takitaki did some tackles for loss IIRC.

The missed tackle didn’t aggravate me.  It was the sloppy effort on the play where Dobbins had like 10-12 yard gain where Mack kinda gave it a HS try and put out a weak tackle attempt.

Mack Wilson has been all bark no bite...doesn’t have consistent effort play to play 

[SdBacker80]

2 hours ago, Orion said:

Denzel Ward saved two games for us this season.

We needed him last night.

How would you like to be Joe Woods?  Playing with a secondary totally void of starting players....

We had some awful games from some of our defensive guys...but Joe Woods sitting in man coverage with 7-8 dropping back and their backs to Lamar all first half as Lamar got 10-15 yards.  Help yourself joe!!!!  Get out that scheme.   the crew called him out just like he was called out in the Jax game for not blitzing.

 

[jiggins7919]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

The light at the end of the tunnel is no longer the headlamp of an oncoming train... 

I get there in a day or two, but right now I'm just hurt. That was more than just one game. It meant more to those of us who remember losing our team, watching OUR players win in Baltimore, and then never having anything of our own. 

And I'm tired of not having a defense. 

[nickers]

8 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

I get there in a day or two, but right now I'm just hurt. That was more than just one game. It meant more to those of us who remember losing our team, watching OUR players win in Baltimore, and then never having anything of our own. 

And I'm tired of not having a defense. 

I suspect defense heavy off season... getting Jojo Natson back next year will help D&D....

[jiggins7919]

1 hour ago, Nero said:

- Defensive gameplan. What Lamar did in the first half is simply unacceptable. I said before the game: keep him in the pocket, make him win us with his arm. He ran for 1000 miles and they rushed for 2000 yards. 

I'm really struggling with our defense. I want to be realistic because we're so injured, but who isn't? Ward always misses big games every year. We don't have a single linebacker who will play next year except possibly Taki on run downs. Everyone else is toast. And you know what? I can't think of any excuse good enough for giving up that 3rd and 10 to the backup. That WAS the game. 

Let me ask you something else. When is the last time our defense actually stopped someone to win a game? Don't say Jacksonville. They gave up yet another TD to Mike Glennon. MIKE GLENNON. Look at Dallas and Tennessee games. The only reason we won is because of our offense. If we can play keep away, we can win. If we're expecting our defense to win the game, good luck with that. We give up more game tying or game losing drives in the 4th quarter than anyone I can remember. The Bengals game? How about BOTH of them. 

Let's focus on last night. Look at before the half...our offense shits the bed and needs help. Just hold them to 3 we said (a punt was obviously not going to happen). Nope. They score a TD on the worst defense in recorded history. How about the last part of the 4th quarter? Nope. They gave up how many drives in the final minutes? Jesus man, someone make a play. The offense can't bail you out EVERY time. 

I'm proud of our offense, our coach, and our QB. But I don't think anyone on our defense can look in the mirror this morning. Ravens haven't scored this many points since the LAST time they beat us. Have some damn pride defense. 

OK...I'm feeling better. Thanks for the vent! 

Go Brownies! Stay mad, stay angry, and beat the shit out of the Giants. 

[Ibleedbrown]

5 minutes ago, nickers said:

I suspect defense heavy off season... getting Jojo Natson back next year will help D&D....

Get back Jojo...

 

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

3 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

I'm really struggling with our defense.
 

And you know what? I can't think of any excuse good enough for giving up that 3rd and 10 to the backup. That WAS the game. 

Let me ask you something else. When is the last time our defense actually stopped someone to win a game? Don't say Jacksonville. 

Let's I'm proud of our offense, our coach, and our QB. But I don't think anyone on our defense can look in the mirror this morning. Ravens haven't scored this many points since the LAST time they beat us. Have some damn pride defense. 

Lamar was making the types of plays that a typical quarterback has ZERO business making. Our defense simply isn’t equipped, in its current state, to stop such a player. Most teams can’t stop LJ. We need players like Delpit and run stopping LBs to slow down that offense.

The 3rd and 10 was a good play by the offense. Good read, throw, and catch.

The defense played very well last week, creating turnovers and containing Derrick Henry. 
 

Losing sucks, I get it.. especially to the Ratbirds.

[calfoxwc]

with the entire secondary playing with backup players....

it was bound to happen.

Like others have said, I am so proud of how hard they played. Saw on TV that Baker is the only? qb who has

steered an offense to 42 points and lost twice. Probably only this year, just caught a glance at the TV with that up on the screen.

   Certainly was a different offensive game. One of those games that will come to mind when working on

a mock draft......

[The Gipper]

11 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

with the entire secondary playing with backup players....

it was bound to happen.

Like others have said, I am so proud of how hard they played. Saw on TV that Baker is the only? qb who has

steered an offense to 42 points and lost twice. Probably only this year, just caught a glance at the TV with that up on the screen.

   Certainly was a different offensive game. One of those games that will come to mind when working on

a mock draft......

Oakland loss in 2018  45-42.  

As I noted elsewhere,   only 17 teams  in history have scored 42 pts and lost a game.   This game was #18.....and now the Browns have more of those games than any other franchise with 3.     Chiefs/Bengals/Steelers/Redskins also had two....

http://mcubed.net/nfl/ptloshgm.shtml

[TexasAg1969]

1 hour ago, calfoxwc said:

with the entire secondary playing with backup players....

it was bound to happen.

Like others have said, I am so proud of how hard they played. Saw on TV that Baker is the only? qb who has

steered an offense to 42 points and lost twice. Probably only this year, just caught a glance at the TV with that up on the screen.

   Certainly was a different offensive game. One of those games that will come to mind when working on

a mock draft......

I talked with Flugel this morning and we both agree that we are damn sure finally becoming a real NFL team that fights to the very end and that if we fix the things in the off season in the D the way we fixed the O, this will be a great team in the long run. We finally have this thing turned around top to bottom in coaching, FO and players' attitudes towards being great. And our best players are finally going to want to stay. They can feel it!!🏆

[The Gipper]

11 hours ago, jbluhm86 said:

Woods isn't the problem. We just don't have the personnel on the defense to make a deep run in the playoffs. The defense just doesn't have enough gas in the talent tank to be able to play a full 60 minutes against great teams.

It does not help either that half of our D...or at least a good percentage are sitting with injuries. 

But, you know....signing a guys like Clay Matthews or Earl Thomas would just not have done our team any good......bullshit. 

[Unsympathetic]

56 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

We don't have a single linebacker who will play next year

Best linebacker, Goodson, should be a backup.  Taki should be taken off the field in passD -- aka every other play.

Hopefully Delpit won't be injured next year.. Harrison wasn't injured much at JAX so hopefully it's a one-year thing.  Need to invest in backup S since Joseph is gone in offseason.

 

This season's bonus discovery: T.Mitchell earned himself a multiyear contract to be the CB4 who on this team will start more than half the games.

[The Gipper]

4 hours ago, Canton Dawg said:

Yep...and the best part is this is a young team.

I saw one graphic that said that the Browns are the only team in the NFL that does not have a starter on offense over  30.  (and that may apply to the entire starting lineup on both sides...though I am not sure about that).   How old are Vernon and Richardson? 

[D Bone]

Coach of the Year right here. I know one thing is for certain, we finally got our head coach position filled with a guy who can be here for 10+ years.....

https://sports.yahoo.com/kevin-stefanski-browns-not-happy-162400828.html

 

Kevin Stefanski, Browns not happy about any ‘moral victories’

Jeff Risdon
Tue, December 15, 2020, 8:24 AM PST

The Cleveland Browns proved themselves worthy in front of a national audience. The postgame commentary from analysts both local and national trumpeted the legitimacy of Kevin Stefanski’s young team in the wake of Monday night’s exciting loss to the Baltimore Ravens.

Coach Stefanski and the Browns themselves don’t care. They lost the game, failing on their goal. They don’t want anything to do with a moral victory.

“We came here to get a victory, and we did not,” coach Stefanski said in his postgame press conference. “Very hard-fought game on both sides. I appreciate how the guys battled, but we just did not do enough to get a win. I do not want to go down the moral victories [path]. We lost. We got beat.”

Several Browns players also expressed the same basic sentiment. They lost and they’re not happy about it.

It’s the right way for the coach and his team to handle the outcome. Almost beating a rival in a thriller isn’t what they are trying to do. The Browns need to win these games. That’s the goal.

That they proved capable of doing so — and they absolutely accomplished that mission in a rousing, resilient comeback — shows how close the 9-4 team is to turning the disappointment into glory. Stefanski and the Browns will feel that in the coming days once the immediacy of the loss is over. But it’s great to see the team not celebrating a close loss, a moral victory. That’s not Stefanski’s mission and he’s going to make sure the players know it.

[Unsympathetic]

16 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

How old are Vernon and Richardson?

30.  Richardson and Vernon are by no means over the hill.  I'd definitely bring both back on say a 2-yr presuming part of that discussion is a bit of a paycut.  We have too many holes to get cute.

[jiggins7919]

39 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

I talked with Flugel this morning and we both agree that we are damn sure finally becoming a real NFL team that fights to the very end and that if we fix the things in the off season in the D the way we fixed the O, this will be a great team in the long run. We finally have this thing turned around top to bottom in coaching, FO and players' attitudes towards being great. And our best players are finally going to want to stay. They can fell it!!🏆

You know what I especially loved, guys? How we fought BACK. There were a couple times where we could have folded and packed it in, but we never did. How about the 4th down TD to Higgins? That was some big nuts type of shit. 

[jiggins7919]

25 minutes ago, D Bone said:

Coach of the Year right here. I know one thing is for certain, we finally got our head coach position filled with a guy who can be here for 10+ years....

Lord it feels so unbelievable to have a coach. 

[jiggins7919]

38 minutes ago, Unsympathetic said:

Hopefully Delpit won't be injured next year.. Harrison wasn't injured much at JAX so hopefully it's a one-year thing.  Need to invest in backup S since Joseph is gone in offseason.

 

That Harrison injury was just the pits. First play of the game on a rather innocuous looking form tackle. Just bad luck because he was REALLY playing good ball. 

[Comeonman]

This is soooooo much better than what we’ve had since the return. So much fun to watch such a young team play so well with a great HC. The loss sucked but we played a hell of a game outside of a couple bonehead plays on D. We missed Denzel very badly. 

[MDDawg]

12 hours ago, Neo said:

I think it's obvious that we need Beckham back. Beckham is our #1, Higgins can be or #2 and Landry in the slot because he has the knack for getting open and he catches everything.

I've been saying this since he was injured. We need him for next level competition like the Ravens, Chiefs etc.

[Tour2ma]

Jesus... I just don't get some of you...

 

Gents... we just went toe to toe with a team that beat us senseless a mere 3 months ago.

Stop and think about that for a minute. If that is not cause for optimism, then I don't know what is.

 

Yes.. for the umpteenth time... yes, our D is not good. This is not news. Suck it the fuck up and know that as sure as our FO addressed the Offense in 2020, that they will address the D in 2021. As I believe I may have mentioned a time or two (or twelve)... you cannot fix everything in one year. Until then revel in the play of our front four.

For now we have to engage in shootouts because we don't have the D to avoid them and we haven't done badly in them in 2020. I believe Nero pointed out we are a more complete Offense than we have been since the 80s... we run... we screen... we short, medium and deep pass, and all that is without a WR who can take the top off a Defense. As others have pointed out, that guy is hurt. Other than that about all we are missing is full TE involvement. I'm still looking for that seam attack. Almost saw it to Njoku last nite, but pass was just out of reach.

 

I'm proud of this team.

[The Gipper]

15 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Jesus... I just don't get some of you...

 

Gents... we just went toe to toe with a team that beat us senseless a mere 3 months ago.

Stop and think about that for a minute. If that is not cause for optimism, then I don't know what is.

 

Yes.. for the umpteenth time... yes, our D is not good. This is not news. Suck it the fuck up and know that as sure as our FO addressed the Offense in 2020, that they will address the D in 2021. As I believe I may have mentioned a time or two (or twelve)... you cannot fix everything in one year. Until then revel in the play of our front four.

For now we have to engage in shootouts because we don't have the D to avoid them and we haven't done badly in them in 2020. I believe Nero pointed out we are a more complete Offense than we have been since the 80s... we run... we screen... we short, medium and deep pass, and all that is without a WR who can take the top off a Defense. As others have pointed out, that guy is hurt. Other than that about all we are missing is full TE involvement. I'm still looking for that seam attack. Almost saw it to Njoku last nite, but pass was just out of reach.

 

I'm proud of this team.

Yes,  all true,   nevertheless,  as far as I am concerned there could have been a few simple moves this FO could have made to have improved this defense.   Yes, that would have meant bringing in some veterans and paying them something. (especially when the injuries began mounting up).     But when you do have a playoff contender,  even one that could go somewhere in the playoffs like we could maybe, I think you do whatever you should to see the team to its fruition to do the best by them and the fans as you can. 

[alporcini]

44 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Jesus... I just don't get some of you...

 

Gents... we just went toe to toe with a team that beat us senseless a mere 3 months ago.

Stop and think about that for a minute. If that is not cause for optimism, then I don't know what is.

I'm proud of this team.

Can't agree with you more. How many of us marked up this game as a guaranteed L as soon as the schedule was released?

We've been growing all season... building capital from our wins, learning from our losses.

I am feeling great.

 

[browns52]

4 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

yep!!!

you will need to convince half this forum...good luck 

i'd rather get rid of beeekham for some picks in the draft....boy do we need defense.....we ain't winning shit without a good d .....with beeekham or without...

[browns52]

4 minutes ago, alporcini said:

Can't agree with you more. How many of us marked up this game as a guaranteed L as soon as the schedule was released?

We've been growing all season... building capital from our wins, learning from our losses.

I am feeling great.

 

i totaly agree....but it would be nice to make the playoffs and most likely lose there....at least we can get the playoff experience thing out of the way.....man that would be great...but with this d that we have, i am not with all these analysts saying the browns are a shoe in for the playoffs....this d makes me sick to my stomach and can lose it  for what has been a great offensive improvement.....don't think for one moment that daniel jones can't beat the browns because he can....scary game comin up this sunday night...

[browns52]

48 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Yes,  all true,   nevertheless,  as far as I am concerned there could have been a few simple moves this FO could have made to have improved this defense.   Yes, that would have meant bringing in some veterans and paying them something. (especially when the injuries began mounting up).     But when you do have a playoff contender,  even one that could go somewhere in the playoffs like we could maybe, I think you do whatever you should to see the team to its fruition to do the best by them and the fans as you can. 

gip......we neee defense....defense....defense.....defense wins games....you need offense also....but defense wins games....and i agree, the fo coulp have done something about it....no doubt.....and don't count you r chickens just yet.....the gints game will not be a pushover game for us....why.....we have no defense and jones can pick us apart...and guess what,,,,,the gints are playing great d.....scares the shit out of me...game we should win but..........

[browns52]

2 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

You know what I especially loved, guys? How we fought BACK. There were a couple times where we could have folded and packed it in, but we never did. How about the 4th down TD to Higgins? That was some big nuts type of shit. 

yep.....there were those close games like the one where peoples hosed up the ko return and we had the ball inside our own five yd line....in past yrs, we would have lost that game.....not this yr....there were other games where it came down to a play or two where we would have lost and we won those close games.....we are on the up and up...but we better fix this shitty d before we waste a good thing....hope we don't end up like the don coryell chargers where they had an unstoppable offense with fouts and company but went no where because their d was so bad....we don't want that template....

[tiamat63]

Not enough love being shown to Money Mitch.  He's done pretty decent for being shoved into a #1 and #2 corner role.

[Comeonman]

16 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Not enough love being shown to Money Mitch.  He's done pretty decent for being shoved into a #1 and #2 corner role.

True. Sure did miss Denzel last night. Can’t say that enough. That Stewart guy really screwed up a lot. 

[hoorta]

3 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

I get there in a day or two, but right now I'm just hurt. That was more than just one game. It meant more to those of us who remember losing our team, watching OUR players win in Baltimore, and then never having anything of our own. 

And I'm tired of not having a defense. 

Well, other than a void of decent linebackers, the rest of the defense is solid- when healthy. Um, Garrett played with a bum elbow. Delpit and Greedy haven't played all year. Harrison and Ward out. That's our entire starting secondary.  Would we have won that game if they were all playing? I'll say probably. FWIW, even without them- we win if Par-kay Margarine hadn't reverted to form in big games, froze up in the cold, and missed a FG and extra point.   

3 hours ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

Lamar was making the types of plays that a typical quarterback has ZERO business making. Our defense simply isn’t equipped, in its current state, to stop such a player. Most teams can’t stop LJ. We need players like Delpit and run stopping LBs to slow down that offense.

The 3rd and 10 was a good play by the offense. Good read, throw, and catch.
The defense played very well last week, creating turnovers and containing Derrick Henry.

Losing sucks, I get it.. especially to the Ratbirds.

Lamar isn't a typical QB, he's an aberration. Been saying it all along- he's a running back who happens to have moderate skills passing the ball....  Ravens leading rusher last night, (124 yards). The book on beating the Ravens is really simple. Don't let Lamar beat you with his legs. Doing a little research- Jackson keeps running at the rate he's going- next season he'll easily  move into the top 10 all time in QB rushing yards. 

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

Jesus... I just don't get some of you...

Gents... we just went toe to toe with a team that beat us senseless a mere 3 months ago.

Stop and think about that for a minute. If that is not cause for optimism, then I don't know what is.

Yes.. for the umpteenth time... yes, our D is not good. This is not news. Suck it the fuck up and know that as sure as our FO addressed the Offense in 2020, that they will address the D in 2021. As I believe I may have mentioned a time or two (or twelve)... you cannot fix everything in one year. Until then revel in the play of our front four.

For now we have to engage in shootouts because we don't have the D to avoid them and we haven't done badly in them in 2020. I believe Nero pointed out we are a more complete Offense than we have been since the 80s... we run... we screen... we short, medium and deep pass, and all that is without a WR who can take the top off a Defense. As others have pointed out, that guy is hurt. Other than that about all we are missing is full TE involvement. I'm still looking for that seam attack. Almost saw it to Njoku last nite, but pass was just out of reach.

I'm proud of this team.

Proud of the progress, disappointed we couldn't pull out the win. Get the MASH unit secondary 1\2 healthy- and a playoff win isn't out of the question. We have two winnable (make that must win) games coming up to punch our playoff ticket. Losing to the Ravens sucks because should we both wind up 11-5 (I fully expect them to win out) they own the head to head tiebreaker against us. 

PS- not to be too hard on Baker- but he had plenty of passes that he sailed out of the area code his receiver was in....