The "It's-later-than-you-think" 2021 Mock Draft Thread

[Tour2ma]

11 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

Did I say anything about Vernon?  Of course not.

I think bjh was pointing out that $15mm in cap money will be available come 2021.

[gumby73]

32 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

Did I say anything about Vernon?  Of course not.

Do you go long term with Ward at 20M a year? 

that is a question we may have to answer. No right or wrong answer.  My opinion - No. 

I asked a tavern question on this yesterday.. Can we pay both Ward & Baker's their 5th year options in the same contract season? But both club options don't come due until the 2021 off-season.. imo, We need to get some 2021 moved up off that year to do so?..Teller? Harrison? Chubb? is all due ending 2021 also? Ogun is due now? Mitchell is due now? few others

Teller has out played Ward this season imo.. and Ward ain't Ramsey..Wards a top 3- 5 CB maybe?

[SdBacker80]

24 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

I asked a tavern question on this yesterday.. Can we pay both Ward & Baker's their 5th year options in the same contract season? But both club options don't come due until the 2021 off-season.. imo, We need to get some 2021 moved up off that year to do so?..Teller? Harrison? Chubb? is all due ending 2021 also? Ogun is due now? Mitchell is due now? few others

Teller has out played Ward this season imo.. and Ward ain't Ramsey..Wards a top 3- 5 CB maybe?

It is usually the last guy that’s due that gets paid.  So I agree he ain’t Ramsey...and what Ramsey did to DK two weeks ago- wow!!! 
 But it is a year later. 

You also brought more mouths in this post than I think we can feed under our restrictions and under the cap.  

i like Ward a lot but if he gets 20M or close to it of our cap what guys are we letting walk out here.  Baker? Chubb? Teller? 

[gumby73]

7 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

It is usually the last guy that’s due that gets paid.  Agreed!  So I agree he ain’t Ramsey...and what Ramsey did to DK two weeks ago- wow!!! Yep,that was a wow!
 

You also brought more mouths in this post than I think we can feed under our restrictions and under the cap.  

i like Ward a lot but if he gets 20M or close to it of our cap what guys are we letting walk out here.  Baker? Chubb? Teller? 

The looks of Berry's drafts & FA outlook? 

looking like 1) a 31 year old DT S.Richardson could restruct? maybe? Andrew Billings is 27 but opted out.. 2) DE Clayborn, olds out at 35..his replacement sits on our ps as a steal from Miami..3) Vernon restructed once..looks to be playing for not to restruct again.. 4) Ogun i see as a mid round drafted fair deal, cause Berry drafted him.. but, we've seen those get twisted too.. 

I'll select to enjoy the winning for now...but it's a coming issue we all asked for 

[Tour2ma]

23 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

Baker? Chubb? Teller? 

One of these things is not like the others...

I'm as far from a Ghoulie disciple as can be, but Teller is the easiest to replace here.

As for Ward... if you think he's a top 5 CB, then you pay him top 5 money just as we did Haden when he was top 5.

[bjh2130]

18 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

Did I say anything about Vernon?  Of course not.

We had multiple people here talking about Wards next contract early in the year and last year when he had a pulled hammy.  After yesterday of course no one thinks backing up the big truck and paying him is unreasonable.
 

He’s not a big guy.  Hasn’t played a full season yet.  He has some durability concerns. 
 

Am I assuming he will want money - of course he’s a very good player.  He played a heck of a game yesterday.  He’s Getting an MRI too.

You paid Garrett 25M annually.

Chubb will get paid soon.

Baker Too...Unless you want to draft his replacement. 

we made a big splash with a TE and a RT this offseason. 

so talking dollars and cents here- cap stuff and risk/benefit.  Do you go long term with Ward at 20M a year?  

that is a question we may have to answer. No right or wrong answer.  My opinion - No. 

I understand people being wary of the injuries when talking about ward but its blown a little out of proportion in my opinion.  He's has played and started in 35 out of a possible 42 games. Myles Garrett missed 6 in his first year and then a 6 game suspension on top of that his 3rd year means even if ward doesn't play a game the rest of the year he will have the same amount of games played through his first 3 years than Garrett did. 

No you didn't bring up vernon I did.  As in the salary cap is only going to go up and if we can afford to pay olivier vernon 15 mil a year over the past two years id certainly hope we could and would pay an elite corner around the same amount. Also that is coming off the books as he is a free agent. 

I'm not saying this simply because he had a good game yesterday. He is an elite cornerback and those don't just grow on trees. He was pro bowl level his rookie year, allowed the lowest completion percentage when thrown at last year and is playing just as well this year.

He's also extremely smart as well.  Everyone knows on the Taki Taki pick 6 Ward got the pressure on Wentz that forced a bad throw but what most don't know is that was not a designed corner blitz called by woods. Ward noticed the man he was assigned to cover had blocked down. That meant he was not going out for a pass. “So I added on and blitzed,” said Ward. “Sione made a great play.” He recognized it instantly and made a decision that greatly benefited us.

In another game earlier this season where his man also blocked down Ward stayed 3 yards off the line, timed a pass perfectly, jumped and deflected it so another browns player could intercept it in the endzone. Two very similar scenarios and Ward made a great decision in both to play a huge part in causing a turnover. 

[Tour2ma]

7 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

The looks of Berry's drafts & FA outlook? 

looking like 1) a 31 year old DT S.Richardson could restruct? maybe? Andrew Billings is 27 but opted out.. 2) DE Clayborn, olds out at 35..his replacement sits on our ps as a steal from Miami..3) Vernon restructed once..looks to be playing for not to restruct again.. 4) Ogun i see as a mid round drafted fair deal, cause Berry drafted him.. but, we've seen those get twisted too.. 

I'll select to enjoy the winning for now...but it's a coming issue we all asked for 

Expect continuing Draft emphasis with FA sprinkles on top of locking up our keepers.

• Hard to see a 30-yo Vernon being retained, but still have games to go.
• Clayborn is 32 and under contract thru 2021.
• Ditto Billings via his 2020 opt out.
• Richardson... could be a 2021 cap casualty if we keep Vernon.
• Ogun? Interesting situation there. Hard to see him not testing the market. Even harder to predict what will result. As a 4-yr vet he's not subject to RFA tendering. Possible transition tag candidate.

Could we see a "splash" FA signing? Odds of that increase as we approach SB contender status. Really nothing revolutionary in this approach.

 

[Unsympathetic]

This is your weekly reminder that our "cap space" is all for signing bonuses.. it's an accounting gimmick, not reality.  There is NO space between our annual salary total and the 2020 salary cap.  2020 salary cap - 198.2M. From overthecap: 2020 Browns Total Cap Liabilities: $197,890,141.  Browns have 300k of cap space.  

Richardson 2021 contract facts -- his salary is 11.9M; cut would cost only 1.6 of dead money.  He's not performing well enough for that contract.  Perhaps someone like Cameron Heyward or Sheldon Rankins or Solomon Thomas is interested.

Andrew Billings is under contract at a 2M salary value through the end of the 2021 season.. the "opt-outs" rolled over.  When Billings goes to FA after 2021 he'll be one of the top10 DI FA's.

Elliot hasn't had a lot of PT but he's getting better as well.. i'd be more confident in him than Ogunjobi. 

DI is just not a deep position even if we "want" to sign FA -- may need to keep ogunjobi as the 4th DI on a one-year even if richardson is cut and a name FA signed.

[SdBacker80]

4 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

One of these things is not like the others...

I'm as far from a Ghoulie disciple as can be, but Teller is the easiest to replace here.

As for Ward... if you think he's a top 5 CB, then you pay him top 5 money just as we did Haden when he was top 5.

But yet in recent history two guards have reaped big dollar contracts with the Browns.

I don’t think anyone is really arguing against Wards ability.  I wish it was that easy.  Is he holding up each year and as he gets older?  He’s one part of the pie and we are running into this fortuitous situation heck I’ll give some credit a situation by design too where we are actually paying multiple guys second contracts.  
 

 

 

[gumby73]

15 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

I'm as far from a Ghoulie disciple as can be, but Teller is the easiest to replace here.

Ghoulie disciple? ^^^      Cleveland Grown ass men would cry 😪.. gotta find a way to pay the Pancake Man!

[Unsympathetic]

Nope. OG's good at runblocking are simply a lot easier to find than OT or DE or a LB who both covers and hits or good CB or...

Like-for-like replacement? No. But greater than capable? Definitely.  If he'd take a 4-7m deal, sure, but >9 especially in a time when the cap may drop by 30, no way.

[The Gipper]

Are there any real stud  MLBs that may be available in this draft?    See my post elsewhere wherein I note that the Browns have never really had a stud,  potential HOF MLB in their history.        

And we need one badly, IMO......I mean, maybe BJ Goodson is doing as well as he can....but does he impress any of you? 

[calfoxwc]

11 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Are there any real stud  MLBs that may be available in this draft?    See my post elsewhere wherein I note that the Browns have never really had a stud,  potential HOF MLB in their history.        

And we need one badly, IMO......I mean, maybe BJ Goodson is doing as well as he can....but does he impress any of you? 

There are....the one I referred to earlier on the first page....

"

One lb is a sleeper - 6'4'  260, and is a rising star with his team. Lost no speed. Used to be a rb and qb earlier in hs.

Has already been named the Bronko Nagurski National Defensive Player of the Week this season. "

"In five games, including three against top-25 opponents (Oklahoma State, UCF and SMU), he has 33 tackles, including 10 for lost yardage and four sacks. He has been named the American’s Defensive Player of the Week three times this season. "

He's a secret. I haven't started my mock draft yet. Middle LInebacker.

[The Gipper]

30 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

There are....the one I referred to earlier on the first page....

"

One lb is a sleeper - 6'4'  260, and is a rising star with his team. Lost no speed. Used to be a rb and qb earlier in hs.

Has already been named the Bronko Nagurski National Defensive Player of the Week this season. "

"In five games, including three against top-25 opponents (Oklahoma State, UCF and SMU), he has 33 tackles, including 10 for lost yardage and four sacks. He has been named the American’s Defensive Player of the Week three times this season. "

He's a secret. I haven't started my mock draft yet. Middle LInebacker.

No need to be coy, Roy.    Do you think that NFL scouts would not know about him? 

[calfoxwc]

On 11/25/2020 at 12:38 PM, The Gipper said:

No need to be coy, Roy.    Do you think that NFL scouts would not know about him? 

lol. I suppose so. I think if the Browns go 10-6, say, they would draft somewhere around 20-25 maybe...?

The top lb's will be gone. Who knows how he will do at the combine, top speed, etc.

But he will be pretty well known about then.

Zaven Collins.

https://withthefirstpick.com/2020/11/25/2021-nfl-draft-zaven-collins-report/

htt

NFL Draft Stock Report: Week 12 Risers

Zaven Collins, LB, Tulsa

How do you top making the game-sealing interception against SMU a week ago? Simple — intercept another pass and bring it back for the game-winning score in overtime. That’s been the scenario for Zaven Collins the past two weeks, and the junior is flying up draft boards — further boosting his NFL Draft stock in Week 12.

Collins is a large, athletic linebacker who plays tough, physical, and instinctive football. He’s a three-down defender who forces the action behind the line of scrimmage, makes plays in space, and effectively covers the pass. Collins amassed 15 tackles against Tulane and returned an interception 96 yards for the game-winning score. As I mentioned during last week’s live stream of The Draft Insiders podcast, Collins will enter the draft and is presently receiving first-round consideration around the league.

ps://www.profootballnetwork.com/nfl-draft-stock-week-12-risers-rondale-moore-zaven-collins/

 

 

[calfoxwc]

It's still way early, but I have my eye on Bryce Crosby, Ball State, S.

Don't know where, but.....he's on my list of early possibilities.

as to wide receivers.... I think I'm looking at

Frank Darby, Arizona State, explosive, about 6'1", great hands.... in a later pick.

and Jason Oweh, edge...Penn State.

but it is really way too early to get much of a legit idea about a mock draft.

[Dutch Oven]

The defense is obviously going to be the main focus of this offseason, but as cal mentioned WRs should be something the Browns consider too.

OBJ and Landry have big contracts that the Browns might want to rid themselves of. OBJ can't stay healthy, Landry has been pretty mediocre this season after a great 2019. 

The rest of the WRs IMO are just average, replaceable guys.  

[TexasAg1969]

23 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

The defense is obviously going to be the main focus of this offseason, but as cal mentioned WRs should be something the Browns consider too.

OBJ and Landry have big contracts that the Browns might want to rid themselves of. OBJ can't stay healthy, Landry has been pretty mediocre. 

The rest of the WRs IMO are just average, replaceable guys.  

And there are some really excellent WRs in this class, so if we are going BPA there is a better than even chance one falls to us in that mid-round area. Drafttek distinguishes between WRs and Slot players.  I would also consider TE Kyle Pitts of Florida if he's still there in our TE oriented offense.

https://www.drafttek.com/2021-NFL-Draft-Position-Rankings/Top-College-WRs-2021-NFL-Draft.asp

https://www.drafttek.com/2021-NFL-Draft-Position-Rankings/Top-College-Slot-WRs-2021-NFL-Draft.asp

[SdBacker80]

if we are making just a couple offense selections in the upcoming draft 

Definitely need a WR and I’d say interior line depth. 
 

Ty Fryfogle Indiana

Amari Rogers Clemson

Trevon Grimes FLA

Jalen Tolbert S. Alabama 

Probably 3/4/5 round type prospects 

 

[Dutch Oven]

1 hour ago, SdBacker80 said:

Definitely need a WR  
 

Ty Fryfogle Indiana

 

I'm pretty sure he just scored another touchdown vs Ohio State as I wrote this. 

[gumby73]

54 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

A&M   20        LSU    7      Permanent replacement for T-Day weekend.😁

Got my scouting eyes on LB Buddy Johnson👀... Buddy just jumped up to #4 at draftscouts at ILB... Adding a few NFL pounds wood not hurt that kids playing frame(234lbs.).. has the looks of a banging baller?  Bud Dupree'ish came to my mind.. gods, keep him away from black & gold jerseys 🤫

[TexasAg1969]

53 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

Got my scouting eyes on LB Buddy Johnson👀... Buddy just jumped up to #4 at draftscouts at ILB... Adding a few NFL pounds wood not hurt that kids playing frame(234lbs.).. has the looks of a banging baller?  Bud Dupree'ish came to my mind.. gods, keep him away from black & gold jerseys 🤫

I hope that he and Mond both take advantage of the "free" extra year of eligibility and come back next year. He's the heart of that D along with Soph SDE DeMarvin Leal 6'4" 290, another Garrett in the making. Like Garrett they have to gameplan around him. Game was played in rain most game long, so it was dominated by defenses. LSU scored a gimme with 38 seconds left in the game. A&M had not played in 3 weeks and the offense looked it rain or no rain.

[Unsympathetic]

 Cap for next year has been set at 175.

Browns this season are 190. Obligations for next season are 8m over at present.

[calfoxwc]

found this about Zaven Collins in my research..... It's early, but If I did a mock draft today.......

Zaven is my first round pick.

 

[The Gipper]

20 minutes ago, Unsympathetic said:

 Cap for next year has been set at 175.

Browns this season are 190. Obligations for next season are 8m over at present.

I would have said getting rid of Olivier Vernon would have solved issues of that sort....but maybe not....if he plays the rest of the season the way he played last week. 

[SdBacker80]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

I would have said getting rid of Olivier Vernon would have solved issues of that sort....but maybe not....if he plays the rest of the season the way he played last week. 

We need to pump the brakes a bit- He faced a weak turnstile last week.  

[Dutch Oven]

38 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

We need to pump the brakes a bit- He faced a weak turnstile last week.  

He has had 5 sacks in the last 3 games, though.

Maybe he's finally feeling good and healthy?

[Unsympathetic]

If Harrison is injury prone he may not be able to be counted on.. and no long-term contract for him, thus early-round DB needs to be back on the list.  Greedy may be able to transition to S if he can't be a long-term CB due to his own injury issues.

Not unlike what my board looked like last year.. DB, LB, LB, DI should be our first 4 picks in some order.  If oneof the first-round LB doesn't fall, Paris Ford looks strong. Jevon Holland isn't good at pass coverage.

I tend to think of "tiers" in both NFL and NBA drafts after the top-of-round-1 guys.

[Dutch Oven]

1 hour ago, Unsympathetic said:

If Harrison is injury prone he may not be able to be counted on.. and no long-term contract for him, thus early-round DB needs to be back on the list.  

I like Harrison, but the dude gets hurt like EVERY GAME. I'm pretty sure he's had to leave a game 3 or 4 times so far this year, and he barely played at the beginning of the season.

I'm kind of scared to go into next season with Harrison at SS and Delpit at FS... That's a lot of crossed fingers there. 

[The Gipper]

Questions:

If the Jets have the #1 overall pick....do they take a QB, even though they have Darnold  (as, to be fair, Darnold is NOT the reason they suck so badly)....or do they pick another position....or trade down to get multiple picks.....to get as much needed talent as they can?      Or, do they take the QB and trade Darnold, and what could they get for him? 

And which QB do they take if they do take one?   I assume it would be Trevor Lawrence....but would he pull an Elway or an Eli and say: no way am I going to the Jets?