Browns make no moves before trade deadline

[jbluhm86]

Got to admit, this is a real disappointing head-scratcher to me. Especially with how porous our defense has been over the last 3-4 games, I'm pretty disappointed that we didn't make any moves to shore it up.

[calfoxwc]

I suppose the cost of making a trade for the rest of the season is outweighed by the

high value of drafting  a good player who might have a nice career.

   if they did trade for a player to help, it would take some time for them to learn

the defense anyways.

  With the covid, injuries, etc - any trade partner would be asking too much.

Berry is brilliant I think, and if he doesn't make any trade, it's for good reason.

  Too bad though. Sendejo is really getting on my nerves. lol

I guess Mack Wilson has been playing at less than 100%, etc,

but good ole #23 just can't do it anymore on pass coverage.

[Nero]

To be honest, I prefer this extreme than the other one: the Browns selling the house to get some team-refining weapons. 

It kind of shows that the FO knows this team is on building process, so no need to put all the bets into this season. Makes sense. I would have liked to hear about some second-tier trades for our D, though. 

[The Gipper]

As I have said, I don't think that the Browns had to make a trade at all to perhaps upgrade this team....this defense.  There are guys on the street who could help us in a playoff run.

What I think this signals is that the Browns FO is wholly uninterested in seeing the team make the playoffs this year.   They have been doing the "rebuilding"  thing for so long that they are perpetually in that mode, and they have no clue apparently how to deal with a potential playoff run. 

[Gunz41]

1 hour ago, calfoxwc said:

I suppose the cost of making a trade for the rest of the season is outweighed by the

high value of drafting  a good player who might have a nice career.

   if they did trade for a player to help, it would take some time for them to learn

the defense anyways.

  With the covid, injuries, etc - any trade partner would be asking too much.

Berry is brilliant I think, and if he doesn't make any trade, it's for good reason.

  Too bad though. Sendejo is really getting on my nerves. lol

I guess Mack Wilson has been playing at less than 100%, etc,

but good ole #23 just can't do it anymore on pass coverage.

I just don't understand this fascination with draft picks (and not meaning just you or just the Browns). 

Sure there is a possibility that a pick turns out good, but most of these deals are for low round picks. So unless you are getting a GREAT player, the compensation is minimal. And you know what you are getting with that pick then.

For context: 

These are guys who at the time were young starters, whether they are now or not.

2016: Jamie Collins (coming off a Pro Bowl btw)- 3rd, Kyle Van Noy- swapped a 6th for 7th, 

2017: Kelvin Benjamin- 3rd and 7th, Marcell Dareus- 6th

2018: Clinton Dix- 4th, Dante Fowler- 3rd and 5th, Damon Harrison- 5th

2019: Aqib Talib- 7th, Leonard Williams- 3rd and 5th, Kenyan Drake- conditional pick, Quandre Diggs- 5th

Yes there are instances where teams give up too much in a trade, and also times where really good are traded, but these are usually the type of deal that happens.

The potential for the known player for having success over a pick that you have no idea who it will be is way higher. 

None of this is to say that moves should or shouldn't be made. But I have never understood the fascination with later round picks who have a much higher chance to not even make the roster compared to becoming even a decent rotational piece 

[Tour2ma]

Just posted this article in another thread...

Basically the article endorses the acquisition of young, cheap rentals for the cost of a mid, Day 3 pick, but for teams in our position not more expensive deals.

Quote

This Browns team is still good. Could they use an insane amount of help on defense? Absolutely. Still, unloading high picks when Super Bowl contention seems like a reach just might not be the best thing right now.

Again, if the Browns feel it is necessary to unload and make a blockbuster trade before the deadline, shoot for the stars. This years Browns team is a playoff team, a big reason why not making any trades in a year when competing for a Super Bowl is not likely is normal. Make the playoffs first, where anything can happen. If this still young Browns team gets in, which they should do to their schedule, and they get amped up and the defense wakes up, who knows what could happen in a 60-minute battle.

It is okay to be frustrated and wonder why they aren’t spending a 5th or 6th, but to be frustrated over not spending higher picks or players on potential big-time rentals doesn’t make much sense. Trust Andrew Berry, the Browns future looks promising.

https://dawgpounddaily.com/2020/11/03/cleveland-browns-andrew-berry-quiet/

That said I still have to say...

• in a few months we can go after any rental of interest in the succeeding UFA market; and
• what season-changing prize have we missed?

On the latter point the two most mentioned names have been Kwon Alexander and Desmond King.

Alexander, while very good, hasn't been available for more than half a season in 3 years.

King is a good, 5'10", slot/nickel CB who had one very good year... two years ago. While he was a FS in college, he has never played FS as a Pro. He appears to lack the speed to do so. So what real need does he fill so well that he makes a difference?

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/pete-priscos-nfl-week-9-picks-patriots-squeak-out-win-over-jets-ravens-hold-off-colts-and-more-predictions/

[Tour2ma]

Just reading an si article that reminded me that a mitigating factor in the acquisition of any rental player via trade involving a draft pick is that if that player is lost in FA then a compensatory pick can be awarded to the team that lost him in FA.

https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/news/browns-stand-pat-at-trade-deadline

Of course that compensation potential applies to players already rostered who are in the final year of their deal, e.g., Njoku. In all we have 15 players who in 2021 will be UFAs if no extension deal is reached. And there are limits to the number of compensatory picks awarded...

 

In short... this is a complicated business with more angles than a protractor to consider...

 

And, yes... I was surprised I remembered the term "protractor". Been a while since I took drafting in Jr. HS...

[Icecube]

4 hours ago, Nero said:

To be honest, I prefer this extreme than the other one: the Browns selling the house to get some team-refining weapons. 

It kind of shows that the FO knows this team is on building process, so no need to put all the bets into this season. Makes sense. I would have liked to hear about some second-tier trades for our D, though. 

I agree with this. But even the Steelers traded for an ILB because they were so decimated at the position, and that made sense, since they have a real shot at adding a ring this season. And we don't know if the Browns have at least been asking around for possible trades or not; maybe nothing worthwhile was out there. 

[browns52]

6 hours ago, The Gipper said:

As I have said, I don't think that the Browns had to make a trade at all to perhaps upgrade this team....this defense.  There are guys on the street who could help us in a playoff run.

What I think this signals is that the Browns FO is wholly uninterested in seeing the team make the playoffs this year.   They have been doing the "rebuilding"  thing for so long that they are perpetually in that mode, and they have no clue apparently how to deal with a potential playoff run. 

you are right.........i don't think we will make the playoffs....i'm not even sure we will end up with a winning record....i think the texans are going to whoop us as a matter of fact...why you say....because they have watson...we suck against his type of qb'ing....was it carr that ran for 18 yds on that 3rd and 17 last week...i forget...someone did...i think it was him...i see once again, and not just against the texans, that our d will be on the field for quite some time...again.....it will be that way probably for most of the rest of the season.....frustration will set in....

[Tour2ma]

Reread the si article I mentioned above...

It's a really good read from Pete Smith. Here it is in its entirety.

Quote

The Cleveland Browns didn't make any moves at the trading deadline, opting to maintain their roster for the second half of the season.

The expectation was that the Browns would seek players that either had deals remaining on their contracts or could be extended, avoiding the prospect of rentals. 

That was the model that the Browns applied when it came to acquiring Ronnie Harrison from the Jacksonville Jaguars for a fifth round pick as the season was set to begin. It has proven successful as Harrison has played well this season and still has one more year left on his rookie deal. The deal was as much about 2021 as it was 2020, which was the goal for the Browns.

The only deal that stood out at the deadline was the trade of Desmond King from the Los Angeles Chargers to the Tennessee Titans for a sixth round pick. Peculiar on multiple fronts, the Titans may not be able to re-sign King after this season, but they will have his compensatory if he does sign elsewhere, which could end up being worth a third or fourth round pick depending on his contract value.

Perhaps the Chargers are confident they will be able to sign King back on the open market and they would then get a sixth round pick for half a season, getting him back for the 2021 season.

Had the Chargers made a deal with the expected result of signing a contract extension with the new team for King, they likely would've gotten more in the trade. It's possible the Titans could still do that, but between their own salary cap situation and King's agent, Drew Rosenhaus, it does seem like they are intent on getting to the open market.

In that sense, the Titans could be in the mix to represent the AFC in the Super Bowl and perhaps King could put them over the top in that regard. The Browns aren't, so renting King for half a season didn't see worthwhile. Had they been able to get him, then sign him to an extension, that might be a missed opportunity to reshape their defense with some lead time to acclimate.

David Njoku had requested a trade, but the Browns never truly entertained offers. Getting a late round pick doesn't help them, so they would need a player in return. And Njoku helps them more than the player they would likely get in return, so as much as that attempted to be a story to follow, there was never anything there. The Browns value Njoku quite a bit, which is (why) they picked up his fifth-year option.

The Browns are more than capable of making the playoffs without making a trade at this point, but they aren't a trade away from the Super Bowl. They are more focused on continuing to evaluate what they have now while making plans to make a bigger run in 2021 and 2022.

https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/news/browns-stand-pat-at-trade-deadline

I'd forgotten we picked up Njoku's 5th back in April at same time we picked up MG's...

[Vambo]

5 things we learned from Andrew Berry's midseason press conference

Cleveland’s EVP/GM met with reporters Wednesday after the team’s bye week practice

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/5-things-we-learned-from-andrew-berry-s-midseason-press-conference

1. He's not satisfied by Browns' 5-3 start

Berry described his mindset as "encouraged but incomplete" as he assessed the Browns and their 5-3 record at the midpoint of the season.

"Certainly happy with the progress that we have built upon since last year but really, and (head coach) Kevin (Stefanski) would be the first to tell you this, we still have a lot of work to do," Berry said. "That being said, really pleased with the work that Kevin and his staff have done in a year that has really forced them to deal with unprecedented circumstances. They have done a nice job of getting our team, getting our players, ready to play on a weekly basis. And our players themselves, they have been a resilient bunch, both in games and dealing with just the ebb and flow of everything that they have had to deal with during a very difficult 2020."

The Browns are off to their best start in years thanks to a four-game winning streak that stretched from Week 2 to Week 5. They're 2-2 in the AFC North with both of their remaining division games to be played at FirstEnergy Stadium. Getting back to the playoffs for the first time since 2002 is certainly within reach, especially with the league's expanded format, but Berry was measured as he described the Browns' outlook for the remainder of the season.

"I am not naive to the fact that really a playoff appearance for any franchise is special because each season really is sacred; the chance to compete and ultimately get in the tournament," Berry said. "That all being said, our focus is really on attacking our opponents one week at a time and taking care of the little things on a weekly basis because if we are able to successfully accomplish that, the big things will take care of themselves."

2. Why Browns didn't make a trade

The Browns, like most teams around the NFL, stood pat Tuesday as the league's trade deadline came and went with minimal action.

Berry said the Browns were involved in a number of discussions and some potential deals were "within striking distance," but Berry and Co. opted to roll forward with the current roster.

"We explored a number of different possibilities, and really for us, the trade process is really every week, it is not even just about the deadline," Berry said. "So, we did explore a number of different possible transactions."

Berry posited most teams declined to make deals at the deadline for multiple reasons. First, he said, there were fewer sellers, which was likely a result of the expanded playoff field. Second, it's unclear what the league's salary cap will look like in 2021 and beyond, and that could have played into some reluctance.

"Part of the general manager's job is to have a bit of a foot in the present and a bit of a foot into the future as well," Berry said. "And sometimes balancing those perspectives can be challenges, but at the same time I like how we are positioned. I like what the team has done during the first eight weeks of the season, and I think that we have a lot more to do and potentially accomplish over these next eight weeks."

3. His assessment of Baker Mayfield

Berry said he's liked what he's seen from QB Baker Mayfield through the first eight weeks of the season, especially considering the truncated offseason he and the rest of the team experienced.

"Baker has done a nice job. He has done a nice job of putting us in a position to win games in the first eight weeks of the season," Berry said. "I think we have all seen him progress throughout on a week-to-week basis. He has done a nice job of learning the system and getting more comfortable in the system, and again, ultimately putting the team in a position to win. So, we are certainly pleased with it from that perspective."

Mayfield's 2020 has been up and down with some of his better performances coming in Browns wins and some of his tougher games coinciding with the team's three double-digit losses. On the season, Mayfield is completing 61.4 percent of his passes for 1,514 yards, 15 touchdowns and seven interceptions.

"All I know is that I think Baker has played well and he has done a nice job during these first eight weeks. He has allowed us to play winning football. We have had winning football from that position," Berry said. "Expect him to keep doing that over the second half of the year. And look, we are going to be in a good place as a team and organization if that is the case."

4. His appreciation for Kevin Stefanski

Berry was effusive in his praise of Stefanski and his coaching staff, saying the Browns were "in about as good of hands as we can ask for at the helm."

Berry called Stefanski's staff "fantastic" while praising everyone from the coordinators to the quality control assistants.

"I think the most impressive part about Kevin is his poise," Berry said. "He is, genuinely, the same guy every single day, regardless of what has happened on Sunday [and] regardless of what we have dealt with during the day. Even keel. Same quick wit and sense of humor. I think that is the most impressive part, because I think all of us on this call realize how hard and how stressful his job can be."

5. Odell's surgery set

Berry said WR Odell Beckham Jr. will undergo surgery on his torn ACL early next week. Beckham was lost for the season after suffering the injury early in the Browns' Week 7 win over the Bengals.

"Odell is one of the best receivers in the NFL. He played really good football for us before he was injured," Berry said. "He has done a fantastic job with his teammates and practice. He has embraced the organization. He is under contract for multiple years. So, our focus with Odell is making sure that he recovers from the ACL tear. We want him to be healthy and ready to go next year."

[TexasAg1969]

19 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

I suppose the cost of making a trade for the rest of the season is outweighed by the

high value of drafting  a good player who might have a nice career.

   if they did trade for a player to help, it would take some time for them to learn

the defense anyways.

  With the covid, injuries, etc - any trade partner would be asking too much.

Berry is brilliant I think, and if he doesn't make any trade, it's for good reason.

  Too bad though. Sendejo is really getting on my nerves. lol

I guess Mack Wilson has been playing at less than 100%, etc,

but good ole #23 just can't do it anymore on pass coverage.

Plus Phillips and Delpit have not been forgotten in next year's equation. Got to look at the long term prospects.

"Too bad though. Sendejo is really getting on my nerves. lol"  Yes, he certainly is good for at least two TDs a game or at least two really bad plays that lead to them shortly thereafter.😬

[nickers]

I'm surprised we havent signed Clay Mathews III... He's got to be better than what we have trotted out there... He may lack the speed he once had but his experience would be invaluable I would think...

[hx214]

50 minutes ago, nickers said:

I'm surprised we havent signed Clay Mathews III... He's got to be better than what we have trotted out there... He may lack the speed he once had but his experience would be invaluable I would think...

Always next year in Cleveland.

[gumby73]

no real place to put this, but than maybe here? 

Former Bears WR Ted Ginn jr. was just cut loose Monday, just before the trade deadline..His cost was just under a million.. WR Ted Ginn jr, was born in Cleveland. A Former Buckeye, with deep threat WR skills & Kick return skills.. Andrew Berry? Can a local homie at least get a practice tryout? https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29040445/free-agent-receiver-ted-ginn-35-no-plans-retirement-yet

[Unsympathetic]

What is the name of this magical >60-on-PFF rated player who is available for a 5th round pick or lower?  Now that the Texans fired their GM, there isn't any other GM who's unaware of how the game is played.

Yes, you would have to hit on all draft picks.. but news flash, veterans available for low draft picks are not great players and not close to "a sure thing."  If someone's an average player and a team isn't relevant - they'd be available. If they're above average and on a team-friendly contract... that player would be considered Part Of The Core by the other team and simply unavailable in a trade.

Making a move "to shore up a defense" sounds great -- if it works. Making a move to acquire a UDFA-caliber player for a draft pick makes the team worse off than before by wasting resources without increasing the skill of the defense.

 

We have plenty of proof Williamson will play at the same level as players we already have.  So why in the name of *&%) waste a single breath on acquiring him? We have two healthy bodies who are no better [and not much worse] than him - Takitaki and Phillips.  All these guys are rated within 1.5 of 45 because they read slowly, whiff on tackles, and are only slightly better than Mack Wilson in pass coverage.  

[Dutch Oven]

I think it is safe to say that the Browns will be focusing HEAVILY on improving their defense this upcoming offseason... 

But could the safety position be set possibly for years already with Ronnie Harrison at strong safety and Grant Delpit at free? If so, this would allow the Browns to check off one part of the defense and focus on the DLine, LBs and CBs. 

Delpit's injury really hamstrings the Browns, because it is hard to assume he and Harrison could be the safety duo for the foreseeable future because they really have no idea what they have in him. 

[Tour2ma]

On Delpit...

I think they have a pretty good idea of the athlete they drafted and while he's been on IR their work on his football IQ has been ongoing.

While mental reps are no substitute for live ones they are valueless to neither the player nor his evaluation by the Staff.

[Dutch Oven]

Just now, Tour2ma said:

On Delpit...

I think they have a pretty good idea of the athlete they drafted and while he's been on IR their work on his football IQ has been ongoing.

While mental reps are no substitute for live ones they are valueless to neither the player nor his evaluation by the Staff.

Thoughts on Harrison as the potential strong safety starter for the future? 

He's graded out well on PFF apparently, and seems to be one of those guys who makes plays, but he also seems to be fragile. Makes a big play, then he's out of the game two series later. 

[Unsympathetic]

Harrison is #9 overall pff safety..  great pickup, sign him now longterm before he's recognized as even better and therefore costs more..

 

The trade for Harrison was made under 2 weeks [trade on 9/3] before the season started on 9/16.. AFTER all offseason cutdowns/etc.   We had to make a roster move for space for him.

Harrison IS the improvement made to improve the defense before the trade deadline.  Are you not entertained?

[Tour2ma]

38 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

Thoughts on Harrison as the potential strong safety starter for the future? 

Secondary evals aren't my thing, but my impression is that he has the head and, excepting his hands, the physical traits of a good SS.

[gumby73]

On 11/5/2020 at 9:26 AM, hx214 said:

Always next year in Cleveland.

I've come to the conclusion, it's not just next years contracts Berry is looking at👀.. It's the analynics group thinking ahead 2-3 years in contracts.. Covid lower cap number looming..

At my count, I see 23 contracts that expire at the end of 2020.. Only 2 that jump off the page.. CB-Terrance Mitchell & DT Larry Ogunjobi (Billings opting out did help Berry's evaluations on Ogun).. Secondary, I'd consider CB Kevin Johnson & WR Hollywood Higgins..  https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/cleveland-browns/         of course we've got more games to play to determine 

In 2022, comes a trainload of them..  https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/2022/all/cleveland-browns/   I'd actually consider getting the 86th highest paid starting RG paid in 2021 being Wyatt Teller..  S Ronnie Harrison, I'd also consider as a keeper, at this point..  Both are young & playing well enough to earn deals.. I think Berry sending this message to his roster in his first season is a win..win..

[hx214]

2 hours ago, gumby73 said:

I've come to the conclusion, it's not just next years contracts Berry is looking at👀.. It's the analynics group thinking ahead 2-3 years in contracts.. Covid lower cap number looming..

At my count, I see 23 contracts that expire at the end of 2020.. Only 2 that jump off the page.. CB-Terrance Mitchell & DT Larry Ogunjobi (Billings opting out did help Berry's evaluations on Ogun).. Secondary, I'd consider CB Kevin Johnson & WR Hollywood Higgins..  https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/cleveland-browns/         of course we've got more games to play to determine 

In 2022, comes a trainload of them..  https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/2022/all/cleveland-browns/   I'd actually consider getting the 86th highest paid starting RG paid in 2021 being Wyatt Teller..  S Ronnie Harrison, I'd also consider as a keeper, at this point..  Both are young & playing well enough to earn deals.. I think Berry sending this message to his roster in his first season is a win..win..

Ya... hope all the stars align so you can look 2-3 out in the NFL. Those plans are all good in theory, but I’d point to a team like the 49ers who will be lucky to make the playoffs this year after being a play or two away from winning the whole damn thing last year as reasons they should have fixed the defense this year and made the playoffs and try to run the table. 
 

I just find it hard to be optimistic as a Browns fan for the “next three years” when I’m looking at this schedule and see the best chance to do something this team hasn’t done in a decade. would they be the strongest team in the playoffs? Nope. Not by a long shot, but it’s football, so things like an 8-8 team can win the whole thing against a legendary team or teams with back up QB’s winning MVP in the super bowl have happened.... but you gotta make the playoffs first.. But now, with this defense they have? I don’t know how you even pick them to be favorites in any games the rest of the way out. 

[Dutch Oven]

12 minutes ago, hx214 said:

 But now, with this defense they have? I don’t know how you even pick them to be favorites in any games the rest of the way out. 

The Browns have Houston, Philadelphia, NY Giants, NY Jets and Jacksonville on their schedule in the second half.

You can't honestly think they won't be favorites in any of those games, can you? 

[Tour2ma]

4 hours ago, gumby73 said:

It's the analynics group thinking ahead 2-3 years in contracts.

It's no secret that "Cap guru" is now a very important position in any FO.

1 hour ago, hx214 said:

I’d point to a team like the 49ers who will be lucky to make the playoffs this year after being a play or two away from winning the whole damn thing last year.

So your best case is to site a team that we have nothing in common with?

Try this on...

We sell out to go for it with a 1st season HC, DC.... and then end up with an injury list as long as SF's.

Somehow I don't think you would be applauding our FO for taking a shot.

[The Gipper]

It's no secret that "Cap guru" is now a very important position in any FO.

I agree:

[gumby73]

10 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

We sell out to go for it with a 1st season HC, DC.... and then end up with an injury list as long as SF's.

Somehow I don't think you would be applauding our FO for taking a shot.

The Raiders game with no Chubb/Teller & OBJ was enough 9'ers watching for this guy... 

11 hours ago, hx214 said:

I just find it hard to be optimistic as a Browns fan for the “next three years” when I’m looking at this schedule and see the best chance to do something this team hasn’t done in a decade. would they be the strongest team in the playoffs? Nope. Not by a long shot, but it’s football, so things like an 8-8 team can win the whole thing against a legendary team or teams with back up QB’s winning MVP in the super bowl have happened.... but you gotta make the playoffs first.. But now, with this defense they have? I don’t know how you even pick them to be favorites in any games the rest of the way out. 

Were all as optimistic & lifelong fans like yourself..  Surely can't ague your playoff points above.. I also believe Berry tried to add defensive help.. In his words from above 

Berry said. "So, we did explore a number of different possible transactions."

Berry posited most teams declined to make deals at the deadline for multiple reasons.

First, he said, there were fewer sellers, which was likely a result of the expanded playoff field.

Second, it's unclear what the league's salary cap will look like in 2021 and beyond, and that could have played into some reluctance.

"Part of the general manager's job is to have a bit of a foot in the present* and a bit of a foot into the future* as well," Berry said. "And sometimes balancing those perspectives can be challenges, but at the same time I like how we are positioned.

I like what the team has done during the first eight weeks of the season, and I think that we have a lot more to do and potentially accomplish over these next eight weeks."

Berry can only make above ^^ final statement after not buying or selling.. Coaches determine who will play..Fans? Yep! Were only interested in number of Wins.. Who here, really gives a 💩, if were game favorites or not?   

  

[Unsympathetic]

Falcons just waived Takk McKinley, 1st round pick in 2017.  Throw a waiver claim at him - he may not be great but he's better and younger than Clayborn.

Browns also grabbed Joe Jackson off waivers from Dallas after week 1.

[gumby73]

On 11/9/2020 at 8:18 PM, Unsympathetic said:

Falcons just waived Takk McKinley, 1st round pick in 2017.  Throw a waiver claim at him - he may not be great but he's better and younger than Clayborn.

Browns also grabbed Joe Jackson off waivers from Dallas after week 1.

Ian Rapoport

 

@RapSheet

What if Takk McKinley wasn’t claimed by the #Bengals? Source said that the #Raiders, #Browns, and #49ers also put in claims. Cincy won out.

6:17 PM · Nov 11, 2020

 

2nd Berry claim miss, after missing out on a claim for WR Dante Pettis last week.... good thought!

[Unsympathetic]

Someone on this list is interesting - at least to me anyway