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Dividing Cleveland Browns fans into those who say ‘But Baltimore,’ and ‘But Pittsburgh,’ and those who don’t

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https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/10/dividing-cleveland-browns-fans-into-those-who-say-but-baltimore-and-but-pittsburgh-and-those-who-dont.html

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- This could be a dividing line for your friends and family, and it has nothing to do with politics. Lower stakes here, but not irrelevant. More along the lines of chocolate ice cream or vanilla, or a choice about music or movies or where to get your hair cut. Not a core principle, but a question for a personality test.

In discussing the 5-2 Cleveland Browns this week, have you said, “but Baltimore” or “but Pittsburgh” as a primary part of your discussion? Maybe it slipped out -- everyone’s caught a bit of of “Happy Gilmore." But are you sitting down for the Adam Sandler marathon, including the new Netflix ones? Are you “butting” yourself out of the enjoyment of this Browns' start?

 

I’m not saying it end should relationships, but a “but Pittsburgh” test isn’t a bad idea to judge compatibility. There are those who accept beauty in the world. And there are those who watch an Ohio sunrise and wonder if the rays danced more brilliantly off the waters around Baltimore.

 

Or there are those who need content for their radio show.

Earlier this week I solicited ideas about a quick retort for any optimistic Browns conversation that was about to be derailed by someone focusing on the two losses -- a “but Pittsburgh” defense.

Among the suggestions -- Dawg Check; 5 and 2; 2020; Oh and 16; Onto Vegas; Kardiac Kids II; and We’re Having Fun Watching Football. See if any of those work for you.

You: “I really think the Browns have a great shot at the playoffs with this 5-2 start. Football Outsiders has their playoff chances at 62.4 percent.

But Person: “Yeah, but they aren’t as good as Baltimore and Pittsburgh. And they haven’t beaten any good teams. They need to beat a good team. Cincinnati is terrible, but Pitt ...”

You: “DAWG CHECK. WE’RE HAVING FUN WATCHING FOOTBALL.”

While interrupting a conversation and storming off is my preferred method of human interaction, those hoping to enjoy 5-2 may have more civilized inclinations.

So here are some facts to add context to “But” discussions.

These are standings based around the idea of beating good teams and bad teams, for those who only like to count those games. The good teams are those with zero losses or one loss. Good teams can’t have two losses, because the Browns have two losses and the person you’re debating doesn’t think the Browns are good. So the cutoff line is high.

The bad teams are those with zero wins, one win or two wins. Everyone else, like the Browns, fits among the 13 teams in the middle.

Good teams (6): Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Baltimore, Tennessee, Green Bay, Seattle

Bad teams (13): NY Jets, NY Giants, Atlanta, Jacksonville, Houston, Minnesota, Cincinnati, Dallas, Washington, New England, Denver, LA Chargers, Philadelphia

Here then are the AFC standings counting only games against the top six teams, because good wins count for more in the standings of the mind.

AFC “BUT” STANDINGS, GAMES AGAINST GOOD TEAMS ONLY

Pittsburgh 1-0

Kansas City 1-0

Las Vegas 1-0

Indianapolis 0-0

NY Jets 0-0

Baltimore 0-1

Tennessee 0-1

LA Chargers 0-1

Miami 0-1

Jacksonville 0-1

Cincinnati 0-1

Buffalo 0-2

New England 0-2

BROWNS 0-2

Denver 0-3

Houston 0-5

The seven current AFC playoff teams according to the good wins standings: Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Las Vegas, Indianapolis, N.Y. Jets and then a messy six-way tie for the final two wild card spots at 0-1.

AFC “BUT” STANDINGS, GAMES AGAINST BAD TEAMS ONLY

Pittsburgh 4-0

Kansas City 4-0

Tennessee 4-0

Baltimore 4-0

BROWNS 4-0

LA Chargers 2-0

Denver 2-0

Buffalo 1-0

Indianapolis 3-1

Miami 2-1

Cincinnati 1-1-1

Houston 1-1

Las Vegas 0-1

New England 0-1

New York Jets 0-1

Jacksonville 0-3

The seven current AFC playoff teams according to the bad wins standings: Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Tennessee, Baltimore, the Browns, L.A. Chargers and Denver. Unless beating bad teams is a bad thing? Should the standings be reversed?

AFC “BUT” STANDINGS, GAMES AGAINST MEDIUM TEAMS ONLY

Buffalo 4-0

Pittsburgh 1-0

Tennessee 1-0

Baltimore 1-0

BROWNS 1-0

New England 2-1

Las Vegas 2-2

Kansas City 1-1

Miami 1-1

Indianapolis 1-1

Houston 0-0

Jacksonville 1-2

Denver 0-1

Cincinnati 0-3

LA Chargers 0-3

NY Jets 0-6

The seven current playoff teams according to the medium wins standings: Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Tennessee, Baltimore, the Browns, New England, Las Vegas.

The other option for “But” debaters on either side is to add up the records of the good standings, the bad standings and the medium standings and see what the current playoff teams would be. Do that ... and you’ll have the actual standings.

You: “WE’RE HAVING FUN WATCHING FOOTBALL.”

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Even the title thread is too long for me to read. TLDR, please? 

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6 minutes ago, Nero said:

Even the title thread is too long for me to read. TLDR, please? 

When your mom brings your breakfast to you in the basement ask her to read it to you! please?

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2 minutes ago, Vambo said:

When your mom brings your breakfast to you in the basement ask her to read it to you! please?

No need to bring my mom to the forum, mate. She can't waste her time, she's busy cooking my lunch. 

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I'm enjoying the start. I'm happy about 5-2, it's been a long long time.

No, there hasn't been many "buts" here. I don't even like to acknowledge the Ratbirds, Paul Tagliabue's signature creation. Hell, I have season tickets and have never gone down to the stadium to see that opponent- I donate the tickets to the high school football program, so they can raffle them off & make money off them. Tagliabue bitch-slapped the city of Cleveland by putting those m effers in our division.

I don't ever wear any yellow & black color combos ever. I just can't. At least the Rooneys voted against the move. Quietly hoping for a Squealers win vs the Rats Sunday.

Like I posted in another thread, yes the Browns D is bad. It has a lot to do with injuries and depth. The only "but" here is basically only a handful of teams are playing good D this year. It doesn't give the Browns a pass, "but" it's definitely a comparison to the whole league. 

Beat the Raiders somehow. Get to 6-2 and enjoy the BYE. 

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Hmmm, well, the very author trying to make a fuss of the "But Pitt" club doesn't include the Browns as a "good team" himself. Then WTF is he whining about? It invalidates the entire point. 

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76-13 

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7 hours ago, Icecube said:

Hmmm, well, the very author trying to make a fuss of the "But Pitt" club doesn't include the Browns as a "good team" himself. Then WTF is he whining about? It invalidates the entire point. 

So you think his point is that the Browns are good?

 

You need to chat with Nero's Mom...

... but here's a hint... it wasn't.

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9 hours ago, Bob806 said:

I'm enjoying the start. I'm happy about 5-2, it's been a long long time.

No, there hasn't been many "buts" here. I don't even like to acknowledge the Ratbirds, Paul Tagliabue's signature creation. Hell, I have season tickets and have never gone down to the stadium to see that opponent- I donate the tickets to the high school football program, so they can raffle them off & make money off them. Tagliabue bitch-slapped the city of Cleveland by putting those m effers in our division.

I don't ever wear any yellow & black color combos ever. I just can't. At least the Rooneys voted against the move. Quietly hoping for a Squealers win vs the Rats Sunday.

Like I posted in another thread, yes the Browns D is bad. It has a lot to do with injuries and depth. The only "but" here is basically only a handful of teams are playing good D this year. It doesn't give the Browns a pass, "but" it's definitely a comparison to the whole league. 

Beat the Raiders somehow. Get to 6-2 and enjoy the BYE. 

I'm enjoying 5-2 as well, but kind of like in a skydiving sort of way..... enjoying the freefall, but not truly happy until the chute opens and not ultimately satisfied until I'm back on the ground - alive of course.   

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14 hours ago, D Bone said:

76-13 

They wet the bed in Pittsburgh for sure.

Game 1 with a new staff and no preseason= mulligan. Let's see how the rematches unfold.

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Getting to the playoffs and advancing in the playoffs are two different things. We can get to the playoffs without beating "good" teams like the Steelers and the Ravens. But once we make it, you know they're going to be there too, and we have to be able to get through them in order to advance. Whether or not we can do that remains to be seen.

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24 minutes ago, jbluhm86 said:

Getting to the playoffs and advancing in the playoffs are two different things. We can get to the playoffs without beating "good" teams like the Steelers and the Ravens. But once we make it, you know they're going to be there too, and we have to be able to get through them in order to advance. Whether or not we can do that remains to be seen.

Plus I believe that learning to win in the playoffs is a real thing.

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1 hour ago, Vambo said:

Well deserved... I'll gladly eat crow...

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On ‎10‎/‎28‎/‎2020 at 7:58 AM, Nero said:

Even the title thread is too long for me to read. TLDR, please? 

 Plus it might have too many big words for you.

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17 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Plus I believe that learning to win in the playoffs is a real thing.

Oh yes !  It can run through the entire team both ways winning and losing.

33847414_181545769349305_3268033765053562880_n (1).jpg

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10 hours ago, mjp28 said:

Oh yes !  It can run through the entire team both ways winning and losing.

For me it's a focus thing... regular season it's relatively easy to stay in the moment if a game is at all close because there is usually nothing to think about beyond this week's game.

Playoffs? Different matter... much easier to prematurely look ahead... scoreboard watch, etc.

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