tiamat63 Posted October 21, 2020 Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Gorka said: We're in trouble. Excellent film breakdown on why Baker is garbage at 4:06 in the video. No one here is saying Baker had no time to throw. What's interesting about that tape is the amount of times I saw Pitt bluff one coverage pre-snap, then roll into cover 2 at the snap. Which is exactly what they did there and throughout the game. Dan Orlovsky was obviously a pro QB and I'm positive he has more insight than me - Hell, I'd love to pick his brain. But on that stick/out you'd think Bakers eyes would, as I pointed out in the Baltimore game, notice the pre-snap tip to the field side/strength of the formation. That's Bud Dupree playing inbetween the #1 and #2 while Devin Bush is walked up over the B gap inside of Heyward. WHY are you not looking to work that as your initial read? You have throwing windows based on leverage, positioning and route combination alone. Especially against an edge rusher who is more comfortable attacking and a 5'11 LB matched up on a 6'5 TE. I'm noticing a trend where Baker tends to get in trouble and seems to lock his eyes at times - the boundary (short side) of the field. Why? Not entirely sure at the moment. I really need a week of vacation to go back and just pour through the last 6 weeks. Toss in the fact that I'm not sure he fully understands how to throw the ball to a larger receiver that can box out a defender with size and make contested catches. Either that or working the short game and 3 steps is just something he isn't comfortable with either. He certainly doesn't invoke memories of Brady dinking and dunking a defense to death at times. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted October 21, 2020 Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 1 hour ago, tiamat63 said: What's interesting about that tape is the amount of times I saw Pitt bluff one coverage pre-snap, then roll into cover 2 at the snap. Which is exactly what they did there and throughout the game. Dan Orlovsky was obviously a pro QB and I'm positive he has more insight than me - Hell, I'd love to pick his brain. But on that stick/out you'd think Bakers eyes would, as I pointed out in the Baltimore game, notice the pre-snap tip to the field side/strength of the formation. That's Bud Dupree playing inbetween the #1 and #2 while Devin Bush is walked up over the B gap inside of Heyward. WHY are you not looking to work that as your initial read? You have throwing windows based on leverage, positioning and route combination alone. Especially against an edge rusher who is more comfortable attacking and a 5'11 LB matched up on a 6'5 TE. I'm noticing a trend where Baker tends to get in trouble and seems to lock his eyes at times - the boundary (short side) of the field. Why? Not entirely sure at the moment. I really need a week of vacation to go back and just pour through the last 6 weeks. Toss in the fact that I'm not sure he fully understands how to throw the ball to a larger receiver that can box out a defender with size and make contested catches. Either that or working the short game and 3 steps is just something he isn't comfortable with either. He certainly doesn't invoke memories of Brady dinking and dunking a defense to death at times. Actually I think it's a brain lock thing. He gets the play in from the bench, makes the call and then does not have the ability to read what he sees while his brain "locks" into that primary receiver. That's what those other guys are brutally describing in the second video on that interception. How many times have we seen him go long when there are intermediate open receivers almost in the same sight line? But his brain is locked on that first one. He just can't "un-see" enough to go to the more open one who gets an easy 1st down. And defenders are easily reading how locked in his eyes are to go along with his brain. Then you watch the real pros who use those same eyes to look people off of where they really intend to go. Baker has not learned that part of the game. It's like he can only see about a third of the field on any one play and he just stays glued to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TypicalBrowns50 Posted October 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 We are kind of screwed. Cuz we are trapped with baker at least this year (and maybe next). But so far it’s clear he is not improving at a noticeable pace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icecube Posted October 21, 2020 Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 3 hours ago, TypicalBrowns50 said: We are kind of screwed. Cuz we are trapped with baker at least this year (and maybe next). But so far it’s clear he is not improving at a noticeable pace THIS. For whatever reason, Baker is not improving. I thought he was the real deal, but I'm not sure now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted October 21, 2020 Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 6 games in at 4-2 and the pitchforks are already out... You guys don't deserve a franchise QB... You deserve a Trubisky/Hoyer type... 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted October 21, 2020 Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 1 hour ago, nickers said: 6 games in at 4-2 and the pitchforks are already out... You guys don't deserve a franchise QB... You deserve a Trubisky/Hoyer type... Says the guy who rips Myles Garrett every chance he gets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted October 21, 2020 Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 https://www.brownszone.com/2020/10/20/analysis-despite-plenty-of-cause-for-concern-its-too-early-for-browns-to-panic-about-give-up-on-baker-mayfield/ on to Cincinnati.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorka Posted October 21, 2020 Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 1 hour ago, nickers said: 6 games in at 4-2 and the pitchforks are already out... You guys don't deserve a franchise QB... You deserve a Trubisky/Hoyer type... Well I'm no QB guru, so I can only go with the analysis of an NFL QB and the other "experts". I would love to know Bernies thoughts on Mayfield. If Mayfield is indeed not the QB we thought he was we are in a predicament like no other. Just as we are starting to gain respect. He was the first pick in the draft.. Do we risk being committed to him like the bungholes did Dalton, or do we cut ties and return to our familiar place of being laughingstock of the NFL ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorka Posted October 21, 2020 Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 11 hours ago, Neo said: Wow. Everyone needs to watch this. The Steelers are not 31 points better than the Browns, neither are the Ravens 32 points better. The Browns and the Steelers are equals...up and down the roster. Except at one position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjp28 Posted October 21, 2020 Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 4 hours ago, nickers said: 6 games in at 4-2 and the pitchforks are already out... You guys don't deserve a franchise QB... You deserve a Trubisky/Hoyer type... True. I wonder how injured he was at the beginning of the game and more later on as he was getting hurried and sacked. If the BROWNS ever lose Mayfield well.............. . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted October 21, 2020 Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 6 hours ago, nickers said: 6 games in at 4-2 and the pitchforks are already out... You guys don't deserve a franchise QB... You deserve a Trubisky/Hoyer type... Definitely a fair criticism. His lack of improvement in his 3rd year is also fair..... and alarming as hell. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS Posted October 21, 2020 Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 10 minutes ago, D Bone said: Definitely a fair criticism. His lack of improvement in his 3rd year is also fair..... and alarming as hell. I'd wait until the year is actually over before making such a judgement. This was a bad game for Baker. You know who else had a bad game this week? Aaron Rodgers... It happens. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted October 21, 2020 Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 6 hours ago, nickers said: You deserve a Trubisky/Hoyer type... My guess is that's what they are afraid Baker is... Personally I still think Baker still has a shot at being a very good NFL QB. We'll know a lot more in 11 weeks. Meanwhile my old adage comes to mind... You are always looking for your next QB, it's just a matter of how hard you are looking and what price you are willing to pay when you see him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunz41 Posted October 21, 2020 Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 4 hours ago, Gorka said: Wow. Everyone needs to watch this. The Steelers are not 31 points better than the Browns, neither are the Ravens 32 points better. The Browns and the Steelers are equals...up and down the roster. Except at one position. You can't believe this can you? Let's go through the 22. QB: Not even a discussion, BR WAY over BM RB: Hunt/Chubb over Conner WR1: OBJ over JuJu WR2: Landry over Washington WR3: Claypool over Higgins TE: Hooper by a bit LT: Villanueva over Wills LG: Bitonio over Feller C- Pouncey over Trotter RG: Decastro over Teller RT: Conklin over Okorafor Offense: Cleveland 6 Pittsburgh 5 DE: Garrett over Twitter DT: Heyward over Ogunjobi NT/DT/DE: Alualu over Richardson/Vernon OLB: Watt WAY over Wilson ILB: Bush WAY over Goodson ILB: Williams over Phillips OLB: Dupree WAY over Takitaki/Smith CB: Ward over Haden CB: Nelson over Mitchell FS: Fitzpatrick WAY over Sendejo SS: Edmunds WAY over Joseph Defense: Pittsburgh 9 Cleveland 2 Total: Pittsburgh 14 Cleveland 8 Baker was terrible, but to think that the teams up and down the roster are even is when you get unreachable expectations. While unlikely, if the Browns are fully healthy and play a very good game with the right game plan they can beat Pittsburgh. But they are a bad match up for Browns anytime they play. They have an above average Offense (while the Browns have a below average defense at best) and they have probably the best defense in the NFL and the Browns have a very good explosive offense (especially with Chubb and IF Baker is having a good day). But they DON'T have the NFL best offense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted October 21, 2020 Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 32 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: My guess is that's what they are afraid Baker is... Personally I still think Baker still has a shot at being a very good NFL QB. We'll know a lot more in 11 weeks. Meanwhile my old adage comes to mind... You are always looking for your next QB, it's just a matter of how hard you are looking and what price you are willing to pay when you see him. Well what happens this coming Sunday will determine a lot, starting with whether he even plays. I said first thing before KO that I thought it was a bad idea to play him because of what I saw with his last pass the game before. I don't think any QB can heal up that fast from what I was looking at then. Nothing I saw in the game to follow really changed that opinion. He was totally off even when he had open receivers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted October 21, 2020 Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 On 10/19/2020 at 9:08 PM, Gorka said: I'd swap Mayfield for Burrows in a heartbeat and take my chances. I'd rather see a QB take his bumps and bruises his rookie year with a talentless team than be a one year wonder like Mayfield. Burrows is the typical AFCN North QB. Big at 6'4" 230. Cincy got him, Balt has Lamar, Pitt has Ben and and we got the midget. Todays QB must be able to pass from the pocket. Mayfield is horrible at it. I get to see plenty of Joe B living 50 miles up the road from Paul Brown. I'm not ready to put him in the HOF after 5-6 games. Baker had a crappy game against the Steelers? Burrow got his ass kicked by the Ravens, the only top level defense he's faced so far. I don't currently consider the Browns Mash unit secondary a top level defense. Put up big numbers against the Jags and Eagles. Too damn early to make a definite evaluation of Joe. Looks good- so far. Plenty of QBs have been ruined taking a beating early on, David Carr and a host of others. PS The upcoming game against the Bengals is huge, if the Browns want to be considered serious playoff contenders. These next four games will tell the story. Getting garbage wins the end of the year against the Giants and Jets just to get to 9-7? Not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TypicalBrowns50 Posted October 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 What has been Bakers best game this year? he has underwhelmed all frickin year. In a system that made Case Keenum look good. That’s the alarming part. of course I want baker to be good. He’s not so far. He hasn’t looked good all year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted October 21, 2020 Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 5 hours ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said: I'd wait until the year is actually over before making such a judgement. This was a bad game for Baker. You know who else had a bad game this week? Aaron Rodgers... It happens. For me it has zero to do with the last game... It's the culmination and lack of progression in every one of his games that has me worried. I openly admit that I wasn't a fan of the pick and that more than likely skews my vision, but he just hasn't passed the eye test for me yet - no matter how hard I squint. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icecube Posted October 21, 2020 Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 8 hours ago, nickers said: 6 games in at 4-2 and the pitchforks are already out... You guys don't deserve a franchise QB... You deserve a Trubisky/Hoyer type... The point is, Baker ain't a franchise QB. After his rookie season, he looked like he could very well develop into one, but since he has not evolved or improved, he has regressed. And now in his 3rd year, he looks nothing like a franchise QB. If you can shut down the rush, Browns have little chance. The Balt. and Pgh games illustrated that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownsFan4Evr Posted October 21, 2020 Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 I never realized there were so many QB whisperers on this forum. Give the poor man a couple seasons with THE SAME COACH AND OFFENSIVE SYSTEM.....THEN.....you can be judgemental. What a fickle bunch you are! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted October 21, 2020 Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 8 hours ago, Gorka said: Wow. Everyone needs to watch this. The Steelers are not 31 points better than the Browns, neither are the Ravens 32 points better. The Browns and the Steelers are equals...up and down the roster. Except at one position. 0:55 What Marcellus said and 3:20 (what other dude said) is the reason I posted this. 1) The Browns can't rely solely on Baker to carry the team even with all the weapons. 2) He still can't read defenses. I don't know the guys name, but he even said the cover 1 robber is one of the first plays they learn. Baker is going backwards. edit If the Browns want to go places, Baker has to be able to make plays when other areas aren't contributing. Why where the Steelers so successful? Stop the run game and read Baker's eyes because he is a one read pony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted October 21, 2020 Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 32 minutes ago, BrownsFan4Evr said: I never realized there were so many QB whisperers on this forum. Give the poor man a couple seasons with THE SAME COACH AND OFFENSIVE SYSTEM.....THEN.....you can be judgemental. What a fickle bunch you are! The offense is LOADED with talent. Every time Jarvis makes a contested catch off a defenders back or throws a TD to Odell, every time Odell Beckham runs 50 yards for a TD on a reverse, every time Chubb rips of long gainers, or Hunt runs for big yards or scores, it exposes Baker even more and more. Everybody else is showing that they are explosive and can score and Baker comes out and throws a pick 6 to Fitzpatrick on a throw he should not be making in his 3rd year. Baker is proving himself to be the weak link in the offense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownsFan4Evr Posted October 21, 2020 Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 Baker should not have been playing. How accurate are you at throwing a football with bruised ribs? I've had them....IT HURTS!! His fault was that he tried to play when he shouldn't have. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted October 21, 2020 Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 49 minutes ago, BrownsFan4Evr said: Baker should not have been playing. How accurate are you at throwing a football with bruised ribs? I've had them....IT HURTS!! His fault was that he tried to play when he shouldn't have. Accuracy has nothing to do with eye misplacement. That Baker didn't see pre-snap personnel and their alignments is my biggest concern with this team now, and the foreseeable future. I even went through and highlighted with a breakdown that 1st pick against the Ravens week 1. The mental command while trying to execute fairly simple NFL level concepts is incredibly alarming. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted October 21, 2020 Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 1 hour ago, tiamat63 said: Accuracy has nothing to do with eye misplacement. That Baker didn't see pre-snap personnel and their alignments is my biggest concern with this team now, and the foreseeable future. I even went through and highlighted with a breakdown that 1st pick against the Ravens week 1. The mental command while trying to execute fairly simple NFL level concepts is incredibly alarming. What is alarming is we have have fans like you who jump ship.... 2020: 10 TDs 6 INTs 1,095 yds 86.75 QBR 2019: 5 TDs 11 INTs 1,496 yds 63.71 QBR I'll take his numbers at this point over last years... You are ALL overreacting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted October 22, 2020 Report Share Posted October 22, 2020 4 hours ago, BrownsFan4Evr said: I never realized there were so many QB whisperers on this forum. Give the poor man a couple seasons with THE SAME COACH AND OFFENSIVE SYSTEM.....THEN.....you can be judgemental. What a fickle bunch you are! 3 hours ago, BrownsFan4Evr said: Baker should not have been playing. How accurate are you at throwing a football with bruised ribs? I've had them....IT HURTS!! His fault was that he tried to play when he shouldn't have. We have the exact same complaint. So are you being fickle too?😂😜 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownsFan4Evr Posted October 22, 2020 Report Share Posted October 22, 2020 15 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said: We have the exact same complaint. So are you being fickle too?😂😜 You have the same complaint, most everybody else is throwing him under the bus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted October 22, 2020 Report Share Posted October 22, 2020 10 minutes ago, BrownsFan4Evr said: You have the same complaint, most everybody else is throwing him under the bus. Stating that he has limitations that most likely will keep him from being a very good to great QB is not what I would call "throwing him under the bus". 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted October 22, 2020 Report Share Posted October 22, 2020 1 hour ago, nickers said: What is alarming is we have have fans like you who jump ship.... 2020: 10 TDs 6 INTs 1,095 yds 86.75 QBR 2019: 5 TDs 11 INTs 1,496 yds 63.71 QBR I'll take his numbers at this point over last years... You are ALL overreacting! Don't ever fucking lump me in with the casual fan ever again. If I say something on here in the mold of what I'm discussing now (Baker) - then significant thought and film has been put into it. Right now our QB is handicapping this offense. Being truthful isn't "jumping ship". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorka Posted October 22, 2020 Report Share Posted October 22, 2020 1 hour ago, nickers said: What is alarming is we have have fans like you who jump ship.... 2020: 10 TDs 6 INTs 1,095 yds 86.75 QBR 2019: 5 TDs 11 INTs 1,496 yds 63.71 QBR I'll take his numbers at this point over last years... You are ALL overreacting! Are the NFL analysts also overreacting then? Or is it just because they like hating on Cleveland? I don't believe either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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