Baker Mayfield

[Gorka]

2 hours ago, nickers said:

I'm not saying Baker doesn't have issues... But this is interesting...

 

 

Add to that Drew Brees is around 6'1", like Mayfield.

[Kvoethe]

13 hours ago, Vagitron said:

I'm not sure why you all are frying mayfield.  He wasn't good today but his ribs are also fucked up and he's already on his second coach since being drafted.  It's going to take time and if the Browns reset again it's going to take even longer.  Is he worth his draft position? no, is he a bad qb? I don't think he is and he has the confidence to bounce back.  The AFC north is a really tough division.  You gotta give that guy some credit for trotting out there today, he was hurting. 

I hope you are correct!!

[Gunz41]

17 minutes ago, Unsympathetic said:

Rodgers didn't have a good day yesterday for whatever reasons.  He's had 184 starts.. and most of Rodgers' average-to-bad days are better than Baker's best day.

In year 3 we're still waiting for Baker to have two good days in a row.

Because of his years of consistently excellent play, Rodgers has earned the right to be lazy with his feet or his eyes [I don't know what specifically happened yesterday] and not have his starting role questioned.   BAKER HAS NOT.  Rodgers won the SB his 3rd full season starting.

There is no "comparison" between the two - and you clearly can't comprehend that.

But please keep on saying how you're not trying to apologize for Baker. 

 

This whole thread, you've been pushing the notion that "See, Rodgers Had A Bad Day So Give Baker A Pass Too" -- which is apologizing for Baker.  You've of course conveniently not confronted the reality that for the Rodgers example to be relevant, Baker would first have to be equal to Rodgers.  Being a professional means you're only as good as your last deliverable -- and Baker's deliverables aren't great.  LeBron has stopped dunking in the regular season because after 17 seasons he has earned the right to save himself for playoffs.. but if a rookie tried that, he'd get sent to the D-league.

 

Sunday's performance is Baker's average.. it's an outlier for Rodgers.

No, you don't get your own facts to back up your assertions.

Nobody compared their careers. I simply pointed out that BOTH had Terrible days. And yes one has earned that right and the other has not. There is NO ARGUMENT there.

But I will spell it out even clearer/slower for you. BAKER MAYFIELD WAS HORRENDOUS YESTERDAY AND DESERVES NO PASS. BUT, for the posters who ONLY show up when Baker has a putrid game and use THAT GAME to justify just how incredibly bad he is to justify everything wrong with him is disingenuous.

Again, you are confusing pointing out that it does happen to others as deflecting criticism/apologizing when the two AREN'T connected.

The reason in the same thread I said that IF BM were to turn around and throw for 500 and 6 TDs against Cincinnati thst doesn't mean he has suddenly make some miraculous turn is because its an outlier. But we can leave Rodgers out of this now, as he was ONLY used to show to those who ONLY post about Baker in his worst moments that it can happen to someone who is WAY OUT OF BAKERS LEAGUE.

Now, without you trying to accuse me of deflecting criticism again, do you think that yesterday was synonymous of what Baker is as a whole? Or was he worse than usual? And how do you explain his play before the Steelers game (4-1)? Again not an excuse/deflecting/etc., but its almost as if you play weaker competition you play better, and better competition you play worse. 

And while I understand and agree with your premise, if you want to hang on every word I wrote then why shouldn't you be held to the same standard? Saying as a professional you're only as good..., but you don't use that for another professional. 

And as for LeBron, i don't think you understood the parallels. Sure, he has earned the right to save himself for the playoffs and a rookie hasn't. But that has NOTHING to do with what I said. That is you trying to shift an argument to fit your narrative. So again, lets use him.

I won't use actual game stats, just a fictional one.

LBJ: 5-21 FG, 5 Reb, 4 Ass. and 8 TOs

London Ball: 3-19, 4 REB., 4 Ass. 8 TOs

Now, if I were someone who liked the Pelicans and got on their site to blast Ball and call for his head, post after post, but didn't post when the Pels had done well the last few weeks, but wanted to use THIS GAME as a barometer for what he is, when one of the all.time great players has an extremely similar game that night, it just shows that no matter what level of player (great/average/barely in the league) it can happen. It doesn't mean that the 2 are even comparable, it doesn't mean that the game Ball had was in any way excusable, and doesn't mean that after the entire career of greatness that the great isn't allowed to have an off night. What it does mean to me, is that using one game to justify a position is foolish. And when some who only want to comment when someone has a very bad game but not when there are any positives is just having a pre judged bias.

So again I will say it AGAIN. The game Baker had was inexcusable. The game Rodgers had was an outlier. Rodgers has EARNED the benefit of having a game like that and Baker has not. Baker is WAY more inclined to have it repeat again. Baker is not even close to even comparing to Rodgers. Baker has shown OVER HIS CAREER to be average AT BEST. But I am one who will not take his performance in one game and use that as his litmus test. And I won't use his next good performance (if he has one) to proclaim he has arrived and will then every week "wake up feeling dangerous". 

Last word, it may be kind of telling that after originally posting, tiamat63 appwars to have understood the point I was making, and yet you refuse to and continue to push a narrative that I am somehow absolving Baker when that has been continuously shown to not be the case.

But you (who isn't one of the ones I was referring to) and the only Terrible Baker Poster club can have at it. I'm done.

Have a good one

[Tour2ma]

13 hours ago, Vagitron said:

I'm not sure why you all are frying mayfield.  He wasn't good today but his ribs are also fucked up and he's already on his second coach since being drafted.  It's going to take time and if the Browns reset again it's going to take even longer.  Is he worth his draft position? no, is he a bad qb? I don't think he is and he has the confidence to bounce back.  The AFC north is a really tough division.  You gotta give that guy some credit for trotting out there today, he was hurting. 

Vag the Magnanimous?

I'll take it... as you have a right to a different attytude...

 

Agree with your props to Baker for playing hurt, but my concerns go deeper. Somewhere along the line he's lost his edge... his fire... the chip on his shoulder.

I wrote this minutes ago in another thread in reply to OBJ leading a little sideline gathering...

26 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Was good to see OBJ do that...

Problem was did you see Baker? He walked up late as if to see what was going on... stayed on the perimeter even leaning to look around other players.

It should should have been him leading this pep session... and two years ago it would have been. We know this because it was him...

This only amplifies my concerns over the lack of fire in his belly... where the chip on his shoulder went...

... the things that made him Baker "I'm gonna plant this flag on your 50" Mayfield.

 

 

[TexasAg1969]

Well this will make you sick. Washed up QB Ryan Tannehill during the 14 games he has started for the Tits before yesterday had 3 more TDs than Mahomes in that same time period and the same number of interceptions. He had over 3000 yds passing which was less than 70 from Mahomes' total. Now Mahomes has to match him tonight since Tannehill was 30 of 41 for 364 yd with 4 TDs and 1 INT with a win in OT. We coulda had him cheap when he left Miami. Dolphins traded Tannehill and a sixth-round selection in the 2019 draft to the Tits in exchange for a fourth-round selection in the 2020 draft and a seventh-round selection in the 2019 draft.

[mjp28]

The national media are all over the hapless BROWNS yet again.   They just moved down a notch.

[D Bone]

One thing is for certain, good teams and good players are quick to put the inevitable bad game behind them and respond the following game.

Baker and the Browns go on the road, against their in-state division rival who is playing with reckless abandon.... Simply gotta have it. 

[tiamat63]

46 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Vag the Magnanimous?

I'll take it... as you have a right to a different attytude...

 

Agree with your props to Baker for playing hurt, but my concerns go deeper. Somewhere along the line he's lost his edge... his fire... the chip on his shoulder.

I wrote this minutes ago in another thread in reply to OBJ leading a little sideline gathering...

 

 

This isn't going to be popular but ill say it...   The antics Baker has shown previously - the flag plant, the slashing, the shit talk then silence into near cowering.     That's shit fake tough guys do. 

 

Some will read this and be mad, real ones will read it and go "damn, you're right" 

 

It's easy to be loud when things are right or at minimum even.  When they aren't? That's when bravado should give way to grit.    Baker might not have the latter.

[D Bone]

6 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

This isn't going to be popular but ill say it...   The antics Baker has shown previously - the flag plant, the slashing, the shit talk then silence into near cowering.     That's shit fake tough guys do. 

 

Some will read this and be mad, real ones will read it and go "damn, you're right" 

Sweet! I'm a real one after all. Pretty much how I feel too, as if you have to say or show it, then you aren't. 

^ I have never liked that about him, or in any other player.... simply not my style. 

[Nero]

8 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

This isn't going to be popular but ill say it...   The antics Baker has shown previously - the flag plant, the slashing, the shit talk then silence into near cowering.     That's shit fake tough guys do. 

 

Some will read this and be mad, real ones will read it and go "damn, you're right" 

 

It's easy to be loud when things are right or at minimum even.  When they aren't? That's when bravado should give way to grit.    Baker might not have the latter.

 

4 minutes ago, D Bone said:

Sweet! I'm a real one after all. Pretty much how I feel too, as if you have to say or show it, then you aren't. 

^ I have never liked that about him, or in any other player.... simply not my style. 

I think some of us have commented on that earlier. I've many times stated that he should keep quiet from the media, stop doing commercials and focus on his play instead of the rah-rah, because this is not College anymore. 

Let your play speak for yourself. 

[lodilobo]

3 hours ago, Bob806 said:

I agree with most of that, except it's easy to look in the rear view mirror & say they should have sat him due to injury.

I think Keenum would have met the same fate. The pitt front 7 just killed the Browns O line.

 

No doubt.....starting Keenum would not have changed the outcome. Bottom line...it doesn't matter if it's Brady, Brees, Mahomes, etc.....when the opponent's defense can put that kind of pressure on the qb, there;s no passing game.

 

 

 

 

[SdBacker80]

1 hour ago, D Bone said:

One thing is for certain, good teams and good players are quick to put the inevitable bad game behind them and respond the following game.

Baker and the Browns go on the road, against their in-state division rival who is playing with reckless abandon.... Simply gotta have it. 

Yep!!!

Dont let this one roll over to the next.  We could really use the next two actually.  Have to put this one behind quickly.  

The ribs were obviously not well.
Although The INTS were bad and were more mental than physical.  

The First one was awful.  Sunday morning I was watching a film breakdown on ESPN of our matchup prior to our game.  A good point was brought up and to summarize it -Baker becomes a spazz at times and doesn’t read the field at all. That was definitely a spazz moment.  He has the cool comments and seemingly can think on his toes in other aspects but it changes with pass rushers bearing down on him.  Is he a one read QB like the general consensus seems to indicate? Maybe. 

The Good ones (A. Rodgers, Mahomes) elude pressure and can keep their eyes downfield on targets.  Baker hasn’t been able to elude while reading coverage and making throws as well.

The second INT was not good (I’m not going to put it in the awful basket) he tried to force a play  the same kind of play he’s made the past couple weeks.   That’s the good/bad you get with him. The first INT you gotta change that.

If you go back to Okie tape- he’s winning because of play design he didn’t possess NFL accuracy then.  Lincoln Riley was/is a play design savant.  They had Lamb and Co. running routes 10 yards free of coverage.  Baker doesn’t consistently possess NFL accuracy now. His last college game against Georgia you saw a good defensive minded coach (minus Saturday) expose his accuracy and Baker’s inability to elude pressure wile reading defenses and making throws into coverage.  But Every now and then you get teased with the Ohio St. 2017 game.

He hasn’t fooled anyone he’s gotten better with experience but he’s still a work in progress. His confidence is unwavering.  So he will climb back up next week and have more positive than negative plays. 

 

[Tacosman]

for the browns to take the next step.  The next step being rising to the top of the division, or at least alongside the top of the division with the steelers and Ravens.  Right now the steelers and the ravens rightfully consider themselves rivals to each other and measure their success against each other.  We are not part of that equation right now, and the steelers do not consider us relevant or a rival to them.  The question is can they get there, and how do they get to that point.

So let's start with one key point- This is a passing league, has been for a long time, and the only way a team is going to get to the top of the mountain is with an uber efficient and successful passing game and/or an atypical running game(like Baltimore has founded on the qb running) which complements a successful passing attack(like Baltimore has).  A team isn't going to have traditional running back handoffs as a foundation of offensive success in 2020, so let's throw that nonsense out right now.  

So given that the browns have to throw the ball a bunch successfully to be successful against upper end competition, how do they get there?  The reality is baker just has to play better.....but the browns could help him by using fewer 1st and 2nd down plays to run the ball.  

In a hypothetical situation where a team has the league's worst qb, marginal recievers, and the league's best traditional running game(again to remove a team like baltimore from the equation).....throwing the football on first and second down is *still* going to be more efficient than running the ball.  That's just the way it is.  The likely 'break even point* for when running the ball on 1st and 2nd down equals the efficiency of the passing game would likely be 7.4-7.5 yards per carry when you consider the downsides of running(more holding penalties, fewer chunk plays leading directly to points) against the positives(eliminating the interception risk).  Obviously no team is going to average 7 and a half yards per carry, but the other side of this is the browns don't have the league's worst qbs and certainly don't have marginal recievers.  
 

So if the browns are going to take the next step, they are going to do so throwing the football a lot better than they are doing now.  

 

One way to increase the odds of doing that is fewer runs on 1st and 2nd down.....time and time again when baker struggles and the browns get thumped, when you go back and look at the game log on offense we see handoffs to the running backs which set up 2nd and 3rd and log.  Converting more of those less efficient runs into first and second down play action passing is going to put Baker in a better situation....

and remember, running the football successfully  *DOES NOT* set up play action pass.  This has been disproven in that we now know that play action passing is successful completely independently of running the football.  

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, lodilobo said:

No doubt.....starting Keenum would not have changed the outcome. Bottom line...it doesn't matter if it's Brady, Brees, Mahomes, etc.....when the opponent's defense can put that kind of pressure on the qb, there;s no passing game.

 

Hey, did Baker have a terrible game? Hell yes. What the boo birds are forgetting is the entire offense had a terrible game. OL? Pass blocking stunk.  Run blocking stunk. 4th and 1 is straight mano a mano, and our o- line got destroyed every time. From what I saw the WRs weren't getting open either,  and Baker wasn't  getting  enough time to find them. 3\22 clean pockets. MHO based on our general ineptitude Sunday, Tom Brady in his prime would have fared little better.  

[stillmotion]

Our team literally is at pace to make the playoffs, and you guys are trying to write off Baker when his ribs are messed up, we're missing lineman, and he plays one off game against a 4-0 team.... Look at the entire season, not just one game. We have one of the most deadly rushing attacks, so his stats won't be 5 TDs 500 yards every week. Rodgers and other QB's have off games, and most of you are forgetting, it's only his third season. Peyton Manning and Brett Favre weren't the killing gunslingers until later on. Let the kid get his chance this year, I still believe in him.

[Gorka]

KNR had a moral victory session today. 

They went through the list of teams the Browns were better than. We are better than 22 teams....supposedly.

We're better than JAX, NE, Jets, Mia, Bengals, Colts, Den, Dal, Wash, Phi, Giants, Atl, Hou, Ari, Car, Det, SF,  and 5 more..

We were never this good so I'll take it.

[nickers]

7 hours ago, lodilobo said:

Baker was not my first pick...Josh Allen was. He reminded me of Testeverde, who was a bust until he had the right coaching. Mayfield is our QB, and I'm not ready to give up on him. He's never going to be Aaron Rodgers, but when he is playing with confidence, he can be more than adequate to win games. As for yesterday...he sucked. He should not have been playing...especially against the Squealers. Personally, I think his confidence was severely damaged last season, and he is still not fully recovered. He may never be the same player we saw at the end of 2018. I'm not trying to make excuses, but the team needs stability at the qb position. I think we have the right coach....even though he had a bad day yesterday, so I'm not ready to bench Mayfield in favor of Case Keenum...yet. However, with the injured ribs, I think I would have strongly considered starting Keenum yesterday.

Testicle was pure CACA!... Puhleeze!...  Testicle was legally color blind and often threw it to the other team,.. No thanks... Vinny sucked ass leakage...

[SdBacker80]

1 hour ago, Tacosman said:

for the browns to take the next step.  The next step being rising to the top of the division, or at least alongside the top of the division with the steelers and Ravens.  Right now the steelers and the ravens rightfully consider themselves rivals to each other and measure their success against each other.  We are not part of that equation right now, and the steelers do not consider us relevant or a rival to them.  The question is can they get there, and how do they get to that point.

So let's start with one key point- This is a passing league, has been for a long time, and the only way a team is going to get to the top of the mountain is with an uber efficient and successful passing game and/or an atypical running game(like Baltimore has founded on the qb running) which complements a successful passing attack(like Baltimore has).  A team isn't going to have traditional running back handoffs as a foundation of offensive success in 2020, so let's throw that nonsense out right now.  

So given that the browns have to throw the ball a bunch successfully to be successful against upper end competition, how do they get there?  The reality is baker just has to play better.....but the browns could help him by using fewer 1st and 2nd down plays to run the ball.  

In a hypothetical situation where a team has the league's worst qb, marginal recievers, and the league's best traditional running game(again to remove a team like baltimore from the equation).....throwing the football on first and second down is *still* going to be more efficient than running the ball.  That's just the way it is.  The likely 'break even point* for when running the ball on 1st and 2nd down equals the efficiency of the passing game would likely be 7.4-7.5 yards per carry when you consider the downsides of running(more holding penalties, fewer chunk plays leading directly to points) against the positives(eliminating the interception risk).  Obviously no team is going to average 7 and a half yards per carry, but the other side of this is the browns don't have the league's worst qbs and certainly don't have marginal recievers.  
 

So if the browns are going to take the next step, they are going to do so throwing the football a lot better than they are doing now.  

 

One way to increase the odds of doing that is fewer runs on 1st and 2nd down.....time and time again when baker struggles and the browns get thumped, when you go back and look at the game log on offense we see handoffs to the running backs which set up 2nd and 3rd and log.  Converting more of those less efficient runs into first and second down play action passing is going to put Baker in a better situation....

and remember, running the football successfully  *DOES NOT* set up play action pass.  This has been disproven in that we now know that play action passing is successful completely independently of running the football.  

First, Anyone that played or plays football and/or studied or studies football understands that Running the ball successfully DOES set up play action passing. I don’t even want to bother explaining it further- first for me because I love talking football.  
 

Secondly, the throw oriented offense yesterday set up 2nd and 10 or worse yet 2nd and 14 after a sack.  So I’d suggest in situations where the defense is pass rushing heavily and living in your backfield- It’s time to neutralize the blitz by running the ball.  Definitely not slow developing passes either as Romo astutely pointed out.  Last night, we saw the best player in football Aaron Donald neutralized by somewhat the same scheme we are trying to run.  I heard a comment by one of analysts trying to cover for Donald because they hyped him so much- about the Niner offense keeping him off balance when they did throw because of the run. 
 

We agree on one thing. Overall, I don’t disagree that Baker needs to do better.  

[nickers]

Whats more frustrating is.... We have two pro bowl receivers who are making a case to go to Canton And then I think of all the passes Marino tossed to Duper and Clayton... and still didnt win a sausage,,

[Icecube]

1 hour ago, Tacosman said:

for the browns to take the next step.  The next step being rising to the top of the division, or at least alongside the top of the division with the steelers and Ravens.  Right now the steelers and the ravens rightfully consider themselves rivals to each other and measure their success against each other.  We are not part of that equation right now, and the steelers do not consider us relevant or a rival to them.  The question is can they get there, and how do they get to that point.

So let's start with one key point- This is a passing league, has been for a long time, and the only way a team is going to get to the top of the mountain is with an uber efficient and successful passing game and/or an atypical running game(like Baltimore has founded on the qb running) which complements a successful passing attack(like Baltimore has).  A team isn't going to have traditional running back handoffs as a foundation of offensive success in 2020, so let's throw that nonsense out right now.  

So given that the browns have to throw the ball a bunch successfully to be successful against upper end competition, how do they get there?  The reality is baker just has to play better.....but the browns could help him by using fewer 1st and 2nd down plays to run the ball.  

In a hypothetical situation where a team has the league's worst qb, marginal recievers, and the league's best traditional running game(again to remove a team like baltimore from the equation).....throwing the football on first and second down is *still* going to be more efficient than running the ball.  That's just the way it is.  The likely 'break even point* for when running the ball on 1st and 2nd down equals the efficiency of the passing game would likely be 7.4-7.5 yards per carry when you consider the downsides of running(more holding penalties, fewer chunk plays leading directly to points) against the positives(eliminating the interception risk).  Obviously no team is going to average 7 and a half yards per carry, but the other side of this is the browns don't have the league's worst qbs and certainly don't have marginal recievers.  
 

So if the browns are going to take the next step, they are going to do so throwing the football a lot better than they are doing now.  

 

One way to increase the odds of doing that is fewer runs on 1st and 2nd down.....time and time again when baker struggles and the browns get thumped, when you go back and look at the game log on offense we see handoffs to the running backs which set up 2nd and 3rd and log.  Converting more of those less efficient runs into first and second down play action passing is going to put Baker in a better situation....

and remember, running the football successfully  *DOES NOT* set up play action pass.  This has been disproven in that we now know that play action passing is successful completely independently of running the football.  

How did you conclude that? Two years ago, the Rams had a running game and made the SB. Last year the 9ers had a running game and made it. Those teams could pass because the rush made Ds bring up the safeties. Your better team throw under 30 x a game, usually if you are throwing 40 plus, you lose. Big Ben threw a mere 22 x and put up 38 and it could have been worse. 22. That's how Pitt wins. Rushing does matter for most teams. It's just that when you do throw, you need a QB who hits 65% or better. Can Baker do that? 

[Icecube]

31 minutes ago, nickers said:

Whats more frustrating is.... We have two pro bowl receivers who are making a case to go to Canton And then I think of all the passes Marino tossed to Duper and Clayton... and still didnt win a sausage,,

Danny didn't win a sausage but they had almost all winning records, always in the playoffs. From '83 to '99, the Fins had a total of one losing season with Marino. ONE. And had some 14-2, 12-4 type season along the way. I don't need to tell you Browns fans would kill for that kind of stretch. 166 years and only one losing season, and that might have been the year Dan was out. True, they only made it to one Show in that span, and didn't win, bt that's still quite impressive.  

[Kvoethe]

The whole team has to do better.  Not enough lipstick for that pig.

Garrett was non existent except for one great play. 

Our O line was beat...Watt had to roll film to know our snap counts that bad.

[tiamat63]

 

2 hours ago, Tacosman said:

 A team isn't going to have traditional running back handoffs as a foundation of offensive success in 2020, so let's throw that nonsense out right now.  

 

Niners

Titans

Rams

Raiders

Window dressing aside pre-snap with run fit changes and such... You're absolutely dead wrong.    

 

You're late though,  I expected you to have this thread made by 6pm yesterday.

I'm still waiting on answers to my questions I proposed in your last thread.    Then, as expected, you went MIA until the Browns lost.  Nearly an entire month.

Pathetically fucking predictable.  

 

You're not a Browns fan, you're a troll who can't answer questions with your own football I.Q. without standing on the shoulders of others.   And you STILL can't give high level explanations on exactly what this team needs to do concept wise to ease Bakers passing struggles. 

 

 

 

[tiamat63]

2 hours ago, Tacosman said:

 

and remember, running the football successfully  *DOES NOT* set up play action pass.  This has been disproven in that we now know that play action passing is successful completely independently of running the football.  

 

No, this has NOT been disproven. It is game-dependent theory.  I've even shown depth of linebacker drop comparing side-by sides of the Niners and your precious Chiefs in last years Superbowl.    

[browns52]

3 hours ago, Tacosman said:

for the browns to take the next step.  The next step being rising to the top of the division, or at least alongside the top of the division with the steelers and Ravens.  Right now the steelers and the ravens rightfully consider themselves rivals to each other and measure their success against each other.  We are not part of that equation right now, and the steelers do not consider us relevant or a rival to them.  The question is can they get there, and how do they get to that point.

So let's start with one key point- This is a passing league, has been for a long time, and the only way a team is going to get to the top of the mountain is with an uber efficient and successful passing game and/or an atypical running game(like Baltimore has founded on the qb running) which complements a successful passing attack(like Baltimore has).  A team isn't going to have traditional running back handoffs as a foundation of offensive success in 2020, so let's throw that nonsense out right now.  

So given that the browns have to throw the ball a bunch successfully to be successful against upper end competition, how do they get there?  The reality is baker just has to play better.....but the browns could help him by using fewer 1st and 2nd down plays to run the ball.  

In a hypothetical situation where a team has the league's worst qb, marginal recievers, and the league's best traditional running game(again to remove a team like baltimore from the equation).....throwing the football on first and second down is *still* going to be more efficient than running the ball.  That's just the way it is.  The likely 'break even point* for when running the ball on 1st and 2nd down equals the efficiency of the passing game would likely be 7.4-7.5 yards per carry when you consider the downsides of running(more holding penalties, fewer chunk plays leading directly to points) against the positives(eliminating the interception risk).  Obviously no team is going to average 7 and a half yards per carry, but the other side of this is the browns don't have the league's worst qbs and certainly don't have marginal recievers.  
 

So if the browns are going to take the next step, they are going to do so throwing the football a lot better than they are doing now.  

 

One way to increase the odds of doing that is fewer runs on 1st and 2nd down.....time and time again when baker struggles and the browns get thumped, when you go back and look at the game log on offense we see handoffs to the running backs which set up 2nd and 3rd and log.  Converting more of those less efficient runs into first and second down play action passing is going to put Baker in a better situation....

and remember, running the football successfully  *DOES NOT* set up play action pass.  This has been disproven in that we now know that play action passing is successful completely independently of running the football.  

its simple, the browns are not as physical a team as the ravens and steelers....its been that way since the return....too much soft play....we now have the weapons....for the most part....i am not sold on mayfield so far.....but shit, we need more physicality.....we got pushed around all over the field yesterday...it was pathetic....and you are correct...this is still no rivalry ....its baltimore and the steelers...its been the rivalry for 20 some yrs now....

[Dutch Oven]

6 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

This isn't going to be popular but ill say it...   The antics Baker has shown previously - the flag plant, the slashing, the shit talk then silence into near cowering.     That's shit fake tough guys do. 

 

Some will read this and be mad, real ones will read it and go "damn, you're right" 

 

It's easy to be loud when things are right or at minimum even.  When they aren't? That's when bravado should give way to grit.    Baker might not have the latter.

You beat me to this.

It isn't that Baker might lose games to the Pittsburghs of the world - its the fact that most times he doesn't even look like he should be on the field with them.

I'm seriously asking this to everyone - do you think Pittsburgh or Baltimore is at all scared to play Baker Mayfield? Do you think defensive players on either teams lose one minute of sleep the week leading up to playing against Baker Mayfield? I do not. Baker Mayfield, with OBJ and Jarvis and Hooper and a good OLine and Chubb and Hunt and I still do not think Mayfield scares any good teams one iota. This is the #1 overall pick who is in his third season. 

[LondonBrown]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

 

It isn't that Baker might lose games to the Pittsburghs of the world - its the fact that most times he doesn't even look like he should be on the field with them.

I'm seriously asking this to everyone - do you think Pittsburgh or Baltimore is at all scared to play Baker Mayfield? 

Well Baker and the Browns scored 40pts in a win in Baltimore last year ?

[Gorka]

We have the worst QB in the division. This shouldn't be.

[LondonBrown]

2 minutes ago, Gorka said:

We have the worst QB in the division. This shouldn't be.

Burrows is better than Baker already?

[Gorka]

Just now, LondonBrown said:

Burrows is better than Baker already?

Absolutely.