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20 minutes ago, The Cysko Kid said:

Look regardless of how anyone feels about baker the browns are not going to fire him in the midst of their best season in 25 years. Does he miss easy throws? Sometimes. Sometimes he also makes pretty brilliant throws. He's obviously not on par with a rodgers or a wilson but I think he's got grit and some other intangibles that we havent seen out of a browns quarterback in a long time. I don't think I'd be willing to trade him up with the likes of case keenum at this time. For me to feel good about ditching baker the replacement would have to demonstrate clear superiority. 

With that said bill belichick's tendency to draft a QB every year has sound reasoning to me. Even if you have a tom brady it's a move that keeps that guy on his toes. Makes him perform better.

In the moment of making the occasional awful throws, I said some stupid stuff about Baker. I take it back. Does he have to stop missing throws? Absolutely. The PROBLEM isn't missing throws. The issue is the throws he's missing. Completing 100% of passes hasn't happened very much if ever in the league, so every qb makes mistakes. But Baker can't miss THOSE types, and I don't think it will continue to be a problem. 

Let's remember, Baker was the top rated red zone QB at some point in the season, and he still might be. Baker doesn't turn the ball over often, he's magical on 3rd down, and he's even BETTER on 3rd and long! Did anyone see some of the passes he made today? How about the catches from our receivers? Holy cow. 

Guess what, Baker isn't perfect. Remember that 3rd and short when we ran that wheel route to Hunt and Baker threw it deep and Hunt got laid out? That's a mistake. Why? Because Baker could have EASILY ran it for 3 yards. Huge mistake. That being said, Baker made tons of other plays that were incredible. Let's also remember, Baker is still learning. Let's take a breath and realize what we've got. 

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10 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

In the moment of making the occasional awful throws, I said some stupid stuff about Baker. I take it back. Does he have to stop missing throws? Absolutely. The PROBLEM isn't missing throws. The issue is the throws he's missing. Completing 100% of passes hasn't happened very much if ever in the league, so every qb makes mistakes. But Baker can't miss THOSE types, and I don't think it will continue to be a problem. 

Let's remember, Baker was the top rated red zone QB at some point in the season, and he still might be. Baker doesn't turn the ball over often, he's magical on 3rd down, and he's even BETTER on 3rd and long! Did anyone see some of the passes he made today? How about the catches from our receivers? Holy cow. 

Guess what, Baker isn't perfect. Remember that 3rd and short when we ran that wheel route to Hunt and Baker threw it deep and Hunt got laid out? That's a mistake. Why? Because Baker could have EASILY ran it for 3 yards. Huge mistake. That being said, Baker made tons of other plays that were incredible. Let's also remember, Baker is still learning. Let's take a breath and realize what we've got. 

Your last example had me fired up.  That play is just as bad as the wide open miss in the end zone. We should have had first and goal instead we settle for a long field goal after a throw in double coverage.

each week it is - he left plays on the field or he missed some throws or worse yet he missed some really bad throws you have to make.   

We aren’t seeing a finished product.  I didn’t think we would yet anyway.

i think stefanski is smart enough to get Baker out on the edge more and away from pocket passing empty sets.

He needs to be coached up this offseason.  Slow his clock down a little - way too much of a Spazz especially in the pocket and that is where I think his footwork goes wrong and balls sail on him.   

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5 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

He needs to be coached up this offseason.  Slow his clock down a little - way too much of a Spazz especially in the pocket and that is where I think his footwork goes wrong and balls sail on him.   

This is such an excellent point, SD. Stefanski and Baker have been together for less than one season and didn't even have a typical offseason together. Perhaps coach has to learn how to better instruct Baker, and perhaps they need to grow TOGETHER. Let's also remember that our coach hasn't ever been a head coach before! I mean, I totally get the frustration. Regardless of coaching styles, no QB should ever miss the 3 awful tosses Baker did. But we also need just a little perspective. Do we all remember how awful our QB play was the past 20 years? Because I do. 

Players have bad games. QBs have bad games. Did anyone see how bad Kyler Murray was yesterday? He's a #1 pick and had a terrible day that resulted in a loss. Derek Carr was pretty bad yesterday as well. It HAPPENS. Heck, I saw Aaron Rodgers blow a 10 point lead against the Bucs and make some of the worst throws in history. 

Baker is missing easy passes because he gets excited. On the one Higgins, a DL got his big paw up in the air directly in Baker's field of vision. He clutched the ball (wisely) but then got too excited about how open Higgins was and didn't set his damn feet. That can be taught. Same thing with Hunt. He was so open that he got excited. Baker will learn to calm down. He's really good, and he's going to show it for many years. Let's also have some patience because the kid is due for a clunker. Look at his stats...they're pretty damn good, and that's with a month of awful conditions tossed in there! 

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2 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

Your last example had me fired up.  That play is just as bad as the wide open miss in the end zone. We should have had first and goal instead we settle for a long field goal after a throw in double coverage.

each week it is - he left plays on the field or he missed some throws or worse yet he missed some really bad throws you have to make.   

We aren’t seeing a finished product.  I didn’t think we would yet anyway.

i think stefanski is smart enough to get Baker out on the edge more and away from pocket passing empty sets.

He needs to be coached up this offseason.  Slow his clock down a little - way too much of a Spazz especially in the pocket and that is where I think his footwork goes wrong and balls sail on him.   

It's a lot easier to let a guy learn on the job when there's a W next to the team name at the end of the day. 

There's enough of those here at the end of the day for me to be giving a lot of leeway. We don't have to like it, and believe me I do not, but half of our division is the god damn legion of doom. It pains me to say it but the Steelers are the best team in the league and the best version of the purple browns are right behind them. And yet, here we are, in that division, squarely in the playoff mix. That's a huge step for us. Huge. I would change very little on the offense at this point and see how these guys come together with two years of stable, competent coaching. 

Distasteful as it is I sort of hope the Steelers win the super bowl because I figure there's a good chance roethlisberger retires if that happens. Once he's out of the way the Steelers become a lot more manageable. 

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Baker-lead Browns are 21-20 since the infamous Jets  night game when he took over.

Previous 40 games, Browns were 2-37-1.

I'll take Baker and his flaws. Woofs.

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Notable quarterbacks who have thrown more interceptions than Baker Mayfield so far in 2020: - Tom Brady - Russell Wilson - Matt Ryan - Jared Goff - Josh Allen - Kyler Murray - Matthew Stafford - Kirk Cousins - Phillip Rivers - Cam Newton - Carson Wentz
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20 minutes ago, nickers said:

Notable quarterbacks who have thrown more interceptions than Baker Mayfield so far in 2020: - Tom Brady - Russell Wilson - Matt Ryan - Jared Goff - Josh Allen - Kyler Murray - Matthew Stafford - Kirk Cousins - Phillip Rivers - Cam Newton - Carson Wentz

WOW! 

I also think this might have been our coach's worst game. He started the game in an empty formation from our 6 yard line or so, and that resulted in a sack. I didn't love the play call and it cost us 3 points. (I really didn't like our punt returner catching the damn ball at the 6 or 7, but whatever). Additionally, I didn't like the call to go for it on 4th instead of kicking a FG. It felt macho to me. Yeah, Baker shat the muffin on 3rd and inches, but a FG there gives an 11 point lead.

Furthermore, I can forgive going for it, but I hated the call on 4th. A slightly delayed handoff when we needed inches? Just do the damn sneak on 3rd down, and do it again on 4th 9f need be. Do not EVER do anything delayed! I thought coach learned his lesson when he called a similar play last week on 4th and goal. Stop with the delayed bullshit. Let's start doing QB sneaks. Every team does them, regardless of qb size. 

Coach is learning, too. I really believe in him and can't believe how lucky we are to have him. We literally could have gotten McCarthy! 

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2 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

WOW! 

I also think this might have been our coach's worst game. He started the game in an empty formation from our 6 yard line or so, and that resulted in a sack. I didn't love the play call and it cost us 3 points. (I really didn't like our punt returner catching the damn ball at the 6 or 7, but whatever). Additionally, I didn't like the call to go for it on 4th instead of kicking a FG. It felt macho to me. Yeah, Baker shat the muffin on 3rd and inches, but a FG there gives an 11 point lead.

Furthermore, I can forgive going for it, but I hated the call on 4th. A slightly delayed handoff when we needed inches? Just do the damn sneak on 3rd down, and do it again on 4th 9f need be. Do not EVER do anything delayed! I thought coach learned his lesson when he called a similar play last week on 4th and goal. Stop with the delayed bullshit. Let's start doing QB sneaks. Every team does them, regardless of qb size. 

Coach is learning, too. I really believe in him and can't believe how lucky we are to have him. We literally could have gotten McCarthy! 

I was on the McCarthy train... But I guess thats why I'm not a GM lol...

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2 hours ago, The Cysko Kid said:

It's a lot easier to let a guy learn on the job when there's a W next to the team name at the end of the day. 

There's enough of those here at the end of the day for me to be giving a lot of leeway. We don't have to like it, and believe me I do not, but half of our division is the god damn legion of doom. It pains me to say it but the Steelers are the best team in the league and the best version of the purple browns are right behind them. And yet, here we are, in that division, squarely in the playoff mix. That's a huge step for us. Huge. I would change very little on the offense at this point and see how these guys come together with two years of stable, competent coaching. 

Distasteful as it is I sort of hope the Steelers win the super bowl because I figure there's a good chance roethlisberger retires if that happens. Once he's out of the way the Steelers become a lot more manageable. 

We aren’t going to lose YET because of Baker so he has time to get it right.  Right now it’s the train wreck defense that will hold us back. So we can point out the flaws but the flaws have time to work themselves out. 
 

Ben leaving helps but until we solve their defensive we aren’t any better off.  The Steelers make you one dimensional and then they rush the passer.  We need to establish a running game against them to have any chance.  If we had a decent defense - Ben wouldn’t be a threat.  

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20 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

Ben leaving helps but until we solve their defensive we aren’t any better off.  The Steelers make you one dimensional and then they rush the passer.  We need to establish a running game against them to have any chance.  If we had a decent defense - Ben wouldn’t be a threat.  

Can you IMAGINE how good Baker would be if we had a defense like Pittsburgh? Lol. 

In case you guys are interested, I BELIEVE Ben Roethlisberger had 18 TD passes and 23 picks during his 3rd year. 

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18 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

Can you IMAGINE how good Baker would be if we had a defense like Pittsburgh? Lol. 

In case you guys are interested, I BELIEVE Ben Roethlisberger had 18 TD passes and 23 picks during his 3rd year. 

He was a “game manager” too during the first SB win against Seattle. 

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13 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

He was a “game manager” too during the first SB win against Seattle. 

And they were only letting him use one side of the field pretty much like they're doing with Baker right now too...

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23 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Well, to go with a baseball analogy in the spirit of Tour's earlier analogy...

Hey!

Keep your hands off my analogy, you damn, dirty ape!

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I see jiggins is breaking his back in a mad scramble back on the "Baker Mayfield is a great QB!" bandwagon. 😁

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1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

Hey!

Keep your hands off my analogy, you damn, dirty ape!

Did you kiss Zera , too? LOL :)

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8 minutes ago, nickers said:

Did you kiss Zera , too? LOL :)

No, but I did kiss Nova... and then some.

 

Aside: Read the book in Jr High and Taylor's intro to Nova was pretty graphic... at least it was to this then recently inducted member into Club Puberty.

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21 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

No, but I did kiss Nova... and then some.

 

Aside: Read the book in Jr High and Taylor's intro to Nova was pretty graphic... at least it was to this then recently inducted member into Club Puberty.

 

 

Hmm I never thought about reading it.. But sounds like a cool idea..  Like the book Contact for example by the late , Great Carl Sagan... They turned the movie into a love story vehicle between Jodi Foster and Kevin McCaunaghy.... The book is far more fascinating and really focuses not only on the human element but the incredible science behind it... The book can be draining and lengthy for some.. But If you like John Steinbeck and Kurt Vonnegut... You'll love the detail this book has... It does a lot of character setup like Vonneguts "Galapogos"

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3 hours ago, nickers said:

Kurt Vonnegut.

My fav... Slaughterhouse Five... and it was not a bad movie to boot.

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I'm sorry if I repeat some of what has already been said above, but I'll throw a couple of thoughts on Baker: 

- First of all, I've always hoped that the Browns had an average QB, which complemented with a good running game and a decent defense. That ideal 'average QB' just has to keep us in games, not winning them but not losing them either. I think there's a big check on that one: Baker, a natural gunslinger, has made fewer mistakes than EVER, and keeps drives alive with sporadic good or really good throws on 3rd downs.

- Baker joined a disfunctional franchise and has been coached by: Hue Jackson, Gregg Williams, and Freddie Kitchens. I don't see any of them having a gig as NFL HC or even as a HC of a decent college program. Kevin Stefanski is commanding the team around its strengths and has changed somewhat how Baker plays or behaves. Maybe Baker isn't the 2018 Baker that splashed and made us dream, but I feel like somehow he currently is the most comfortable he has ever been in the team. 

- Maybe I have missed it, but I haven't seen any discussion with the media by Baker. I was the first one to complain about him for answering back media analysts, I'll be the first one to compliment him: he hasn't made any noise off the game field. I still don't enjoy watching my QB being funny on a commercial break after him throwing an awful pass, but he's good at commercials, I have to admit. And those commercials are recorded offseason, most of them.

- Baker Mayfield might not be the best QB we could ever had, but I like him, I like his attitude. All the team rallies around him though he's not the best player, makes few mistakes and even his cockiness has turned down a bit, not missing that fighting spirit he has. It's not easy being a QB for the Cleveland Browns: there's no franchise that has suffered more in the last 20 years. Fortunately, not all the weight is on him, and I think he enjoys having beasts like Chubb and Hunt with him in the backfield: he doesn't need to be the hero, he needs to be a reliable leader. 

- Having said all this good things about him, about his improvement, I can't avoid the obvious. He keeps making similar mistakes over and over. Throws hard, behind receivers, doesn't set his feet or find his balance before a lot of throws, pocket poise is nonexistant... I critize this and complain because if I do value something is constructive criticism. Me (or others) pointing out his flaws shouldn't be looked as a personal attack. I get worried if someone isn't able of finding something to point out in my work. I even feel disappointed at times. I'm hopeful that Baker can listen to the criticism and try to turn it around fixing some of his flaws, working on them. Take a QB coach for his offseason workouts.  I hope we haven't seen the best version of Baker yet, that he will slowly improve through time.
 

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 Here we have Bakers updated pass direction charts https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/directional-completion-rate--off-.html .. here's what I'm chart seeing & here's what I'm seeing on gametape...

1.The Spray Chart breaks down Overall/ and per Downs 1st thru 3rd, to where the balls are going... Under 15 yards/Over 15 yards..

2. As the norm.. On 3rd down, The underneath stuff does get bottled-up.. as does coverage in most places..but it's the money down..YES! (see middle of field)

3.Yes! Baker has loads of game film out there & Yes! Stef has brought a big Band-aide kit to reduce some of Bake's bad habits.. Such as? Bake only rolled right last season..and Defensive units knew it .. Play action rolls left work for me this season & the above chart will clearly show Bake's better at throwing at the Left sideline routes than the Right Sideline Routes..

4. after Viewing Bake's game film? 👀 A.) His front plant foot has a target eye attached to it.. It's called Your Toe. That's a  part of hitting your targets, but throwing with his hips at the release are just to far open.. Real bad throwing to Right sideline routes... 

just in this fans opinion 🤓   

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On 11/30/2020 at 5:47 AM, jiggins7919 said:

This is such an excellent point, SD. Stefanski and Baker have been together for less than one season and didn't even have a typical offseason together. Perhaps coach has to learn how to better instruct Baker, and perhaps they need to grow TOGETHER. Let's also remember that our coach hasn't ever been a head coach before! I mean, I totally get the frustration. Regardless of coaching styles, no QB should ever miss the 3 awful tosses Baker did. But we also need just a little perspective. Do we all remember how awful our QB play was the past 20 years? Because I do. 

Players have bad games. QBs have bad games. Did anyone see how bad Kyler Murray was yesterday? He's a #1 pick and had a terrible day that resulted in a loss. Derek Carr was pretty bad yesterday as well. It HAPPENS. Heck, I saw Aaron Rodgers blow a 10 point lead against the Bucs and make some of the worst throws in history. 

Baker is missing easy passes because he gets excited. On the one Higgins, a DL got his big paw up in the air directly in Baker's field of vision. He clutched the ball (wisely) but then got too excited about how open Higgins was and didn't set his damn feet. That can be taught. Same thing with Hunt. He was so open that he got excited. Baker will learn to calm down. He's really good, and he's going to show it for many years. Let's also have some patience because the kid is due for a clunker. Look at his stats...they're pretty damn good, and that's with a month of awful conditions tossed in there! 

what i believe has not been said is even with missed throws at bad times of a game those pass's have never cost us a game 

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1 hour ago, Vambo said:

 

That 3 play stretch was basically when we needed it the most btw. Check out the 3rd and 16. Then the 4th and 1. Crazy. 

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