D Bone Posted November 29, 2020 Report Share Posted November 29, 2020 5 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said: Absolutely. They've already blown my (and your) 6-10 prediction out of the water. But it is possible to enjoy being 8-3 AND also question if your QB is the guy to lead you to serious Super Bowl contention in the future. Also, I love the job Stefanski has done this season, all and all. Even with this schedule, most of the past Browns teams would probably be 4-7 or 5-6 at this point, tops. It is so awesome to sit down and know I'm about to watch a Browns team that is organized, disciplined, coached well on game day (minus Kevin's 2 challenges today) and overall just looks like a real life, honest to God NFL team..... Last time was Mangini? Kevin really is the MVP. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted November 29, 2020 Report Share Posted November 29, 2020 56 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said: Feet aren’t set...everything is hurried. He’s a mess within the pocket. his feet have been questioned since his college ball days. Crossing & throwing off his heels too. I thought our OC made some valid changes early in the season? I saw them..(Look at 1st 2 games 👻..than Bake went back to being Baker).. Early,...Balls got tipped & picked. Flat footed in pocket became picks & behind/ahead of receiver targets. The new early OL pass pro? twas fair at best..there went Bake back to his happy feet 👣 Like most struggling early QB's ( Baker & Allen/Darnold👀).... they settle back to their old habits 👎 ..I've seen over Amp'd Bake/over Hyped Bake at playcall.(twice today,that came wide open).. But when Bake tones it down & looks focused/settled/... than that softer ball grip shows up & he's throwing strikes & dimes.. Meanwhile...8-3.... Enjoying the hell out of this Team & the Baker Roller Coaster 🎢 ride!!....Enjoy! That's my Quarterback Baker Mayfield 👍 🧔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SdBacker80 Posted November 29, 2020 Report Share Posted November 29, 2020 30 minutes ago, The Gipper said: He is 8-3. He completed 65.5%. Doesn't seem like a mess to me. He messed up a couple of throws...that is it. He’s a mess WITHIN the pocket. Outside of the pocket you cut his reads in half it is a different story. Credit to his mistake free play, his line, his play caller most days and his amazing running backs and good WR play for this 8-3 record. Sum it up The Browns are 8-3. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 44 minutes ago, D Bone said: I like 8-3 too, but if Baker passes your eye test during a 4qtr game, then I need to get you in touch with my optometrist. He did in the 4th quarter. But not in the first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownsFan4Evr Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 Watching The Bucs/Chiefs game right now......guess what?.......Brady and Mahomes have underthrown, overthrown, and missed wide open recievers.........it happens. Browns fans throw our QB's under the bus way too often! We're 8-3 people........... c'mon man! Our D is what deserves the concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 56 minutes ago, D Bone said: It's the way Kevin is forced to call his entire offense. He knows the only success Baker has is on the move, off of PA, off of a stretch run and only looking at 1/2 of the field and maybe 2 reads. He has to limit the number of conventional drop back pocket passes, as well as PA pocket passes because of Baker's "limitations" in the pocket. I'm not saying Kevin is calling too many runs.... hell, I would have called even more today. I'm just saying that he is limited to calling a certain kind of pass play because of his QB. ^ That to me is having to hide him. First, you'd have a much easier time persuading me if Dutch weren't on your side. That said... Personally I love it when circumstances force me to do what I prefer to do anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 19 minutes ago, BrownsFan4Evr said: Watching The Bucs/Chiefs game right now......guess what?.......Brady and Mahomes have underthrown, overthrown, and missed wide open recievers.........it happens. Browns fans throw our QB's under the bus way too often! We're 8-3 people........... c'mon man! Our D is what deserves the concern. No one here is throwing Baker under the bus. Some of us are simply more realistic and can honestly look at our QB without brown and orange colored lenses. I root for the kid every snap and I'll be the first to say "Great throw kid", but I'm also the first to say his pocket presence and footwork were awful even though he somehow completed a 5yd pass - much less when he misses an easy touchdown throw. Hopefully Baker improves, as Kevin is going nowhere for many years and he will have a stable coaching situation for the first time as a pro... it's all in Baker's control and either he will, or he won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 11 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: First, you'd have a much easier time persuading me if Dutch weren't on your side. That said... Personally I love it when circumstances force me to do what I prefer to do anyway. It's always hard to admit you are wrong... 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SdBacker80 Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 24 minutes ago, BrownsFan4Evr said: Watching The Bucs/Chiefs game right now......guess what?.......Brady and Mahomes have underthrown, overthrown, and missed wide open recievers.........it happens. Browns fans throw our QB's under the bus way too often! We're 8-3 people........... c'mon man! Our D is what deserves the concern. Agree they all miss plays. I’ve said that before too RIGHT NOW...if we are playing complementary football running the ball then play action and rolling pockets on other plays...he’s very capable. His level of competent football play fits in a small box. If I can more positive about his play You have to be very pleased that he’s making fewer mistakes (turnovers). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 On 11/29/2020 at 4:27 PM, hx214 said: can't figure out the misses on the wide open throws. In The Tavern today I compared Baker to a pitcher who only has a fastball. A fastball is fine when a QB has throwing lanes and no under or trail coverage, but when he has to elevate the ball over a defender, be it at the LOS or downfield, or then he has to take something off the ball. This is where Baker tends to struggle. It explains most of the high throws, some of which were completions. The wide open misses? I think the above explains the miss of Hooper(?) all alone in the endzone when Baker had pressure in his face. The other that jumps out at me, the short pass to Hunt, had no defender to blame. However, it was so short with both players running to the far sideline, that he had to take quite a bit off the throw and the result was as inaccurate as we've seen from Baker... a real wobbler. Clearly Baker has to work on his changeup... but there is hope as there was touch in both his TD pass to Hooper and the near connection with Hunt down the far sideline... the one where Hunt got nicked by the FS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said: Bingo! What does everyone's favorite lapsed vegan win? 1 hour ago, D Bone said: Salmon? 😏 I found it!! 🤓 pardon us Tavern Vegan fans, while I share a Vegan moment from my Pandemic Pal Walter from Thursday night... Proceed as you were in Texas 😎.. and thanks for stopping by... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 28 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said: It's always hard to admit you are wrong... 😉 Especially when I've had so little reason to do so... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 34 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: In The Tavern today I compared Baker to a pitcher who only has a fastball. And that's Derick Anderson. Baker is not as good as Anderson was when he was good. And Baker is not as bad as Anderson was when he was bad. And Anderson many times was both in the same game. Baker is going to have to show that he can complete passes to the guys right in front of him or he's gonna notice the Browns drafting a QB in rounds 3-7. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 10 minutes ago, Orion said: And that's Derick Anderson. Baker is not as good as Anderson was when he was good. And Baker is not as bad as Anderson was when he was bad. And Anderson many times was both in the same game. Baker is going to have to show that he can complete passes to the guys right in front of him or he's gonna notice the Browns drafting a QB in rounds 3-7. Nothing was funnier than Anderson having to throw a check down... 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsympathetic Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 It's also long past time we drop the nonsense about Baker being better without OBJ. OBJ is not in fact his Kryptonite. Today, Baker showed his ability to airmail throws to people not named OBJ. He missed Hunt on a screen pass, he missed a walk-in TD throw to Higgie where the Jags had conveniently pulled the defense. This eliminates the bizarro complaint that somehow OBJ was the reason Baker missed/forced throws to other players. Baker can be both terrible and impeccably accurate in the same series. Given the choice.. I'd rather have OBJ on the field also drawing great attention of the defense. The performance of Baker is just as good-not-great without OBJ as he is with OBJ. As with all legit offenses, Chubb is the engine, the OL is key, and OBJ is the final piece of the puzzle. Baker is best when he has all 3. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hx214 Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 3 hours ago, Dutch Oven said: This is what average QBs do. Hmm... I'd say that the exact opposite really..... Id say average QB's make the 5 yard wide open passes and miss the 25-40 yard 11 inch window throws...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hx214 Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 2 hours ago, SdBacker80 said: Feet aren’t set...everything is hurried. He’s a mess within the pocket. Ya.... except 1 of the 2 wide open throws he missed was a boot leg pass while he was running.... so.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 1 minute ago, hx214 said: Hmm... I'd say that the exact opposite really..... Id say average QB's make the 5 yard wide open passes and miss the 25-40 yard 11 inch window throws...... Well, to go with a baseball analogy in the spirit of Tour's earlier analogy, Baker is the hotshot young shortstop who will go deep into the hole between short and third on a sharp grounder, jump and throw across his body from the outfield to throw out the batter, only to the next inning take a easy two hopper and with a 37 year old catcher running throw the ball over the firstbaseman's head into the fifth row of seats. Regardless, no one is calling that shortstop or that quarterback really good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 1 hour ago, gumby73 said: I found it!! 🤓 pardon us Tavern Vegan fans, while I share a Vegan moment from my Pandemic Pal Walter from Thursday night... Proceed as you were in Texas 😎.. and thanks for stopping by... Loved it! "Time moves slower when talking to one".... actual lol from me! 🤣 Good stuff you savage. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 29 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said: Well, to go with a baseball analogy in the spirit of Tour's earlier analogy, Baker is the hotshot young shortstop who will go deep into the hole between short and third on a sharp grounder, jump and throw across his body from the outfield to throw out the batter, only to the next inning take a easy two hopper and with a 37 year old catcher running throw the ball over the firstbaseman's head into the fifth row of seats. Regardless, no one is calling that shortstop or that quarterback really good. I am calling him 8-3 the 4th best record in the NFL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 3 hours ago, The Gipper said: He is 8-3. He completed 65.5%. Doesn't seem like a mess to me. He messed up a couple of throws...that is it. Missed\messed up? I'm pissed he blew a ton of gimmie throws that are in the inexcusable category for an NFL QB. Sailed a sure TD a mile over his receiver's head. The advanced metrics say you get the ball in the same area code it's 88% TD. Another sailor to Landry. A pass 8 feet behind Hunt for a game put it away drive on 3rd down. Top QBs (or even HS ones) DON'T miss easy sandlot throws like that. Damn- I hate to be a Negative Nancy- but that game shouldn't even have been close. 8-3 is what it is- you're going have to be better than that Baker to beat the Titans. With our crap run defense- Henry may have a 200 yard day. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 48 minutes ago, The Gipper said: I am calling him 8-3 the 4th best record in the NFL Once again, I have no idea why Tour puts on ignore such well-thought out takes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 12 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said: Once again, I have no idea why Tour puts on ignore such well-thought out takes. Because he is feckless And what did I say that was inaccurate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 1 hour ago, hoorta said: Missed\messed up? I'm pissed he blew a ton of gimmie throws that are in the inexcusable category for an NFL QB. Sailed a sure TD a mile over his receiver's head. The advanced metrics say you get the ball in the same area code it's 88% TD. Another sailor to Landry. A pass 8 feet behind Hunt for a game put it away drive on 3rd down. Top QBs (or even HS ones) DON'T miss easy sandlot throws like that. Damn- I hate to be a Negative Nancy- but that game shouldn't even have been close. 8-3 is what it is- you're going have to be better than that Baker to beat the Titans. With our crap run defense- Henry may have a 200 yard day. They better get MG and Ward back in there quick! EDIT: Baker again made the throws he needed to help the team win the game... Another observation... Have you watched him chipping in to make key blocks down the field for his running backs?... I have been noticing this all season... He is a part of their success... Were not losing games because of him... No Baker is not perfect... What QB not named Mahomes , Brady and Rodgers is? To Recap... When teamates see you making blocks down field... It says a lot about Baker.. It makes me think... damn.. I'll run through a wall for that mother fucker!... I LOVE IT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 27 minutes ago, nickers said: They better get MG and Ward back in there quick! Duly noted about the general lack of a pass rush.... Then the technically correct but BS helmet hit on Glennon that would have put the game away. Saw a bunch of "no call" holds the Jags got away with- and we didn't. Add in some mighty questionable spots on Browns drives- did the Refs (or Vegas) have a ton of money riding on the game? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hx214 Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 2 hours ago, Dutch Oven said: Well, to go with a baseball analogy in the spirit of Tour's earlier analogy, Baker is the hotshot young shortstop who will go deep into the hole between short and third on a sharp grounder, jump and throw across his body from the outfield to throw out the batter, only to the next inning take a easy two hopper and with a 37 year old catcher running throw the ball over the firstbaseman's head into the fifth row of seats. Regardless, no one is calling that shortstop or that quarterback really good. Hmm... sounds like Urshela to me. Man, the Tribe dumping that guy really worked out great for the Yankees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lodilobo Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 I didn't like drafting Mayfield, but it's still early in his, career, so I'm not ready to cut him from the team, yet. He's better than any qb, since 1999, whether you haters want to admit that, or not. It's fashionable, right now, to dislike Mayfield. I don't really give a crap what is fashionable. His qb rating for yesterday, was 116. That's not too bad. He missed some throws, yesterday...so did Tom Brady. He's not Mahomes, but I would keep him over every other qb that was drafted in 2018, except Josh Allen....that includes Lamar Jackson. There will always be some of you that hate him. I don't think he cares. I know that we are 8 and 3, and talking playoffs. He wasn't my first choice, but I sure am glad we didn't pick Rosen or Trubiskey, like a lot of you wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 7 hours ago, hx214 said: Hmm... sounds like Urshela to me. Man, the Tribe dumping that guy really worked out great for the Yankees. I thought Urshela was all-around a great defensive thirdbaseman. What I didn't see is him turning into a very good hitter, and I'm guessing this caught the Indians by surprise too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 Look regardless of how anyone feels about baker the browns are not going to fire him in the midst of their best season in 25 years. Does he miss easy throws? Sometimes. Sometimes he also makes pretty brilliant throws. He's obviously not on par with a rodgers or a wilson but I think he's got grit and some other intangibles that we havent seen out of a browns quarterback in a long time. I don't think I'd be willing to trade him up with the likes of case keenum at this time. For me to feel good about ditching baker the replacement would have to demonstrate clear superiority. With that said bill belichick's tendency to draft a QB every year has sound reasoning to me. Even if you have a tom brady it's a move that keeps that guy on his toes. Makes him perform better. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lodilobo Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 8 minutes ago, The Cysko Kid said: Look regardless of how anyone feels about baker the browns are not going to fire him in the midst of their best season in 25 years. Does he miss easy throws? Sometimes. Sometimes he also makes pretty brilliant throws. He's obviously not on par with a rodgers or a wilson but I think he's got grit and some other intangibles that we havent seen out of a browns quarterback in a long time. I don't think I'd be willing to trade him up with the likes of case keenum at this time. For me to feel good about ditching baker the replacement would have to demonstrate clear superiority. With that said bill belichick's tendency to draft a QB every year has sound reasoning to me. Even if you have a tom brady it's a move that keeps that guy on his toes. Makes him perform better. Exactly.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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