Westside Steve Posted September 18, 2020 Report Share Posted September 18, 2020 Okay this isn't really political just an observation. I think we all agree it's going to be awhile before they tested and proven vaccine will be available for The Rona with all sorts of variables concerning possible mutation Etc. Be that as it may. Some people are anti-vaxxers other people don't want to take this vaccine because of whatever reason. On the other hand there are people saying that they will be first in line to test it. For that second group let me say that it seems like these are the guys most likely to stress the grave dangers of this pandemic fair enough? These are the folks that are among the most likely to want to take strong measures, stronger than many people would want to take. Stop me if anyone thinks this is unfair overview. It would seem to me that being a test subject memes that half of you will get a placebo while the other half will get the actual vaccine. All of you will be exposed to the virus to see if it works. That means logically that 50% of the people in the study will be infected without any vaccine. Is that right? Wouldn't the group who is so concerned about wearing masks staying home and social distancing be reluctant to be among the 50% of test subjects who are being exposed to the virus just for exploration. WSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted September 18, 2020 Report Share Posted September 18, 2020 I think you characterization is wrong. I would also stop just saying "you" in posts as if that other person or group for sure posts here. Example. I think Covid is a real thing. I think we need to take precautions. I think masks should be mandatory. I think we've generally done a pretty bad job. I also play soccer and went to the Browns game. I'd sign up to help test the vaccine as I haven't had Covid (that I know of) and I'm healthy (though idk if asthma excludes me). Or maybe they don't want younger people? Not sure. The bigger vaccine issue now is the giant disconnect between the effectiveness and time being communicated by Trump vs those being communicated by the experts in his administration. The push for something before the election is obvious but rushing something out and acting like it is a perfect cure will have consequences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted September 18, 2020 Report Share Posted September 18, 2020 21 minutes ago, Westside Steve said: Okay this isn't really political just an observation. I think we all agree it's going to be awhile before they tested and proven vaccine will be available for The Rona with all sorts of variables concerning possible mutation Etc. Be that as it may. Some people are anti-vaxxers other people don't want to take this vaccine because of whatever reason. On the other hand there are people saying that they will be first in line to test it. For that second group let me say that it seems like these are the guys most likely to stress the grave dangers of this pandemic fair enough? These are the folks that are among the most likely to want to take strong measures, stronger than many people would want to take. Stop me if anyone thinks this is unfair overview. It would seem to me that being a test subject memes that half of you will get a placebo while the other half will get the actual vaccine. All of you will be exposed to the virus to see if it works. That means logically that 50% of the people in the study will be infected without any vaccine. Is that right? Wouldn't the group who is so concerned about wearing masks staying home and social distancing be reluctant to be among the 50% of test subjects who are being exposed to the virus just for exploration. WSS Good question. How DOES that work??? The vaccine in test, do they test for antibodies? exposing people in the testing phase to covid doesn't sound right. More likely, being exposed to dead virus to send the body into defensive mode ahead of time, so when you are exposed, whenever/if... you won't get it. Especially when they reported that they isolated the molecule that blocks covid. so, the vaccine, and they then test for the antibodies and the molecule that blocks it. My bigger concern is with the politically tainted CDC. 8000 donations from CDC employees to politicians. 5 of them went to republicans. I thought surely that has to be a typo. This entire "resistance" corrupt political theater by so many of the left.... it's sick stuff. Corrupt government employees have an ulterior motive for voting democrats- it's the left that wants bigger and bigger and bigger government. It's the reps who want it smaller. Cloward-Piven folks. The left is trying to force America to crash so they can step in and own it, to put the blame on conservatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted September 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2020 And one thing I'm not clear on is people in the initial tests will be given the virus? I realized that a smallpox or polio vaccine or a flu shot does not give you the actual disease but I'm talking about in the early stages of testing. With the vaccine only spur the growth of antibodies? At the outside? And what would be the odds? WSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted September 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2020 yes yes Woody we know you're special. But you're exactly who I'm talking to. What do you think the disease is deadly extremely serious somewhat serious whatever you think we should really ramp up the precautions. Fine. So what I was asking in case you couldn't figure it out it's how many people that felt that way are willing to risk getting the disease through TESTING the vaccination. That's pretty much it. But thanks again for the Trump Trump trump Trump trump Trump trump. WSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFBF Posted September 18, 2020 Report Share Posted September 18, 2020 Beware. At least one candidate is an mRNA Vaccine - never been done before : Meaning, they can essentially rewire your DNA. https://horizon-magazine.eu/article/five-things-you-need-know-about-mrna-vaccines.html As if there weren't enough potential issues with "regular" vaccines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted September 18, 2020 Report Share Posted September 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Westside Steve said: yes yes Woody we know you're special. But you're exactly who I'm talking to. What do you think the disease is deadly extremely serious somewhat serious whatever you think we should really ramp up the precautions. Fine. So what I was asking in case you couldn't figure it out it's how many people that felt that way are willing to risk getting the disease through TESTING the vaccination. That's pretty much it. But thanks again for the Trump Trump trump Trump trump Trump trump. WSS I'm not sure you read anything I actually posted and you responded in a typical Steve, unnecessarily confrontational way.... So I won't waste any more time. Enjoy the normal MAGA group and JAFBF tell you vaccines can rewire your DNA. I'm sure you'll get some level of intelligent back and forth there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted September 18, 2020 Report Share Posted September 18, 2020 4 minutes ago, MLD Woody said: I'm not sure you read anything I actually posted and you responded in a typical Steve, unnecessarily confrontational way.... So I won't waste any more time. Enjoy the normal MAGA group and JAFBF tell you vaccines can rewire your DNA. I'm sure you'll get some level of intelligent back and forth there. all your belligerent posts are a waste of time. You attack people and sources, you make "anti" claims with no legit reasoning - you can't back up your contentions, and you belittle everyone who doesn't agree with you. Your false narratives keep blowing up in your beak - it's tiresome. It would have been great if you actually tried to contribute constructively to this forum, on any subject. But you just don't want to, or aren't able to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFBF Posted September 19, 2020 Report Share Posted September 19, 2020 1 hour ago, MLD Woody said: I'm not sure you read anything I actually posted and you responded in a typical Steve, unnecessarily confrontational way.... So I won't waste any more time. Enjoy the normal MAGA group and JAFBF tell you vaccines can rewire your DNA. I'm sure you'll get some level of intelligent back and forth there. For such a smart guy, you apparently don't keep up with what's going on. This was first shown in 2014. Also gives strong clues as too what they are not sharing with the general peasants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted September 19, 2020 Report Share Posted September 19, 2020 From Seeking Alpha (a business website): Moderna and Pfizer set different efficacy bars in pivotal COVID-19 trials Sep. 19, 2020 2:00 AM ET|About: Moderna, Inc. (MRNA)|By: Douglas W. House, SA News Editor Amid concerns among Americans that the rush to approve COVID-19 vaccines may lead to corner-cutting and end products that are not up to typical FDA efficacy standards, leading developers Moderna (NASDAQ:MRNA) and Pfizer (NYSE:PFE) have taken the unusual steps of publishing the protocols of the large-scale late-stage trials for their respective candidates. Moderna's Phase 3 trial of mRNA-1273, two 100 microgram doses 28 days apart, will recruit ~30K adults, 60-75% younger than 65 years old not at risk for complications and 25-40% at least 65 years old (the single most significant risk factor) or less than 65 at increased risk of COVID-19 complications. The primary efficacy endpoint is the incidence of first-occurrence COVID-19 cases starting 14 days after the second shot. A confirmed (via molecular test) COVID-19 case is defined as a participant who has experienced at least TWO of the following symptoms: fever (≥ 38ºC), chills, myalgia (muscle soreness), headache, sore throat, new olfactory and taste disorder(s) OR he/she must have experienced at least ONE of the following respiratory signs/symptoms: cough, shortness of breath or difficulty breathing OR clinical or radiographic evidence of pneumonia. Pfizer and BioNTech's (NASDAQ:BNTX) Phase 3 study of BNT162b2, two 30 microgram doses 21 days apart, will recruit 30K adults stratified in two groups: 16-55 years old and 55+. The primary efficacy endpoint is the incidence of confirmed COVID-19 cases starting 7 days after the second shot as measured by the number of cases per 1,000 person-years of follow-up. A confirmed (via molecular test) COVID-19 case is defined as participants experiencing at least ONE of the following symptoms: fever, new or increased cough, new or increased shortness of breath, chills, new or increased myalgia (muscle soreness), new loss of taste or smell, sore throat, diarrhea or vomiting. Moderna's criteria are a more restrictive and could potentially show a higher efficacy rate for mRNA-1273 as a result. The number of COVID-19 cases in people who just reported one symptom is unknown. According to a July report from CDC, almost all (96%) of infected persons reported "at least" one symptom of fever, cough or shortness of breath according to case investigation forms while 31% reported all three. Based on these percentages, the proportion of people reporting only one symptom could lead to a material difference in the efficacy of the two vaccines. The most common symptoms are cough (50%), fever (43%), muscle soreness (36%), headache (34%), shortness of breath (dyspnea) (29%), sore throat (20%), diarrhea (19%), nausea/vomiting (12%) and loss of taste/smell (10% each) according to the CDC. The incidence of severe COVID-19 cases is a secondary endpoint in both trials. Both companies appear to have the similar criteria (aside from their base definitions): Confirmed COVID-19 infection as specified above plus any of the following: clinical signs indicative of severe systemic illness, respiratory rate ≥ 30 per minute, heart rate ≥ 125 beats per minute, SpO2 ≤ 93% on room air at sea level or PaO2/FIO2 < 300 mm Hg OR respiratory failure or acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS), (defined as needing high-flow oxygen, non-invasive or mechanical ventilation, or extracorporeal membrane oxygen), evidence of shock (systolic blood pressure < 90 mmHg, diastolic BP < 60 mmHg or requiring vasopressors), OR significant acute renal, hepatic or neurologic dysfunction, OR admission to an intensive care unit or death. Pfizer will measure the incidence of severe cases as the number per 1,000 patient-years of follow-up. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I posted the above just to put some facts from an independent source out there instead of a lot of speculation such as in posts throughout the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted September 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2020 9 hours ago, MLD Woody said: I'm not sure you read anything I actually posted and you responded in a typical Steve, unnecessarily confrontational way.... So I won't waste any more time. Enjoy the normal MAGA group and JAFBF tell you vaccines can rewire your DNA. I'm sure you'll get some level of intelligent back and forth there. Actually it's typical Woody. No idea why you decided to get combative about a pretty simple post. I didn't attack anybody especially you just point it up and some people want to tighten up the restrictions that I think her already too tight but that's not the point. The point is if you think the virus is deadly why would you consider taking a chance with an experimental vaccine at this point. But thanks. Trump Trump trump Trump trump Trump trump. WSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted September 19, 2020 Report Share Posted September 19, 2020 Who needs a vaccine? Some experts now think we should all wear masks forever. ^ This shit right here is why people like me don't trust any politician, or scientists that report to politicians. Give a rat a cookie, and it ALWAYS wants a glass of milk A 15 day shut down to ramp up our hospitals' ability to treat patients has quickly turned into something far, far different..... and if you can't see it, then I just don't know what to tell you as you simply REFUSE to see it. https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/wearing-masks-forever-what-experts-think-181407868.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted September 19, 2020 Report Share Posted September 19, 2020 6 minutes ago, D Bone said: Who needs a vaccine? Some experts now think we should all wear masks forever. ^ This shit right here is why people like me don't trust any politician, or scientists that report to politicians. Give a rat a cookie, and it ALWAYS wants a glass of milk A 15 day shut down to ramp up our hospitals' ability to treat patients has quickly turned into something far, far different..... and if you can't see it, then I just don't know what to tell you as you simply REFUSE to see it. https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/wearing-masks-forever-what-experts-think-181407868.html I think if biden were to be elected, God HELP US NO, that sentiment would flip to the opposite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted September 19, 2020 Report Share Posted September 19, 2020 8 minutes ago, D Bone said: Who needs a vaccine? Some experts now think we should all wear masks forever. ^ This shit right here is why people like me don't trust any politician, or scientists that report to politicians. Give a rat a cookie, and it ALWAYS wants a glass of milk A 15 day shut down to ramp up our hospitals' ability to treat patients has quickly turned into something far, far different..... and if you can't see it, then I just don't know what to tell you as you simply REFUSE to see it. https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/wearing-masks-forever-what-experts-think-181407868.html Is that what you got from that article? I don't see anyone in there saying "who needs a vaccine". The vaccine won't be perfect and we have a high level of moron anti vaxxers in this country, so masks will still help. Going forward, if our culture takes a page out of Korean, Japanese, etc culture and we continue to wear masks in certain situations then that's probably a positive overall but then again MAH FREEDOMS THIS MASKS MAKES IT HARD TO BREATHE I'M AN AMAERICAN I HAVE RIIIIGHTS crowd will be kicking and screaming the whole time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted September 19, 2020 Report Share Posted September 19, 2020 20 minutes ago, MLD Woody said: Is that what you got from that article? What I got from it was at least one scientific expert saying that we the human population should consider wearing masks forever. As for a vaccine? I'll get it right after I get the one for the common cold. Well, it's time to go to the store where I stand a much greater chance of dying from being hit by a distracted driver than I ever will from COVID..... Shit, they should just ban driving for my own protection. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFBF Posted September 20, 2020 Report Share Posted September 20, 2020 https://truepundit.com/astrazenecas-covid-19-vaccine-test-subjects-stricken-with-multiple-sclerosis-and-rare-spinal-cord-disorder/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted September 20, 2020 Report Share Posted September 20, 2020 Got my flu shot yesterday at a drive thru program at the Parma VA clinic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted September 20, 2020 Report Share Posted September 20, 2020 36 minutes ago, DieHardBrownsFan said: Got my flu shot yesterday at a drive thru program at the Parma VA clinic. Get your pneumonia shots up to date too? I got both about two weeks ago. Already had one of the pneumonia ones still in force, but not the newest one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted September 20, 2020 Report Share Posted September 20, 2020 Yes, I've had both types. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted September 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2020 1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said: Get your pneumonia shots up to date too? I got both about two weeks ago. Already had one of the pneumonia ones still in force, but not the newest one. I have no problems with any vaccinations. That being said there are many educated people who are anti-vaxxers and their arguments are not without Merit. And of course what I'm talking about here is being a guinea pig for potentially deadly , in many people's opinion, virus. That's all. WSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lodilobo Posted September 21, 2020 Report Share Posted September 21, 2020 I'm 70 years old, no health issues, no medication, active runner, and I haven't been sick in at least 10 years. I've been a vegetarian since 1973. It will be a cold day in Hell when I willingly accept a flu shot of any type. I only wear a mask when I have to enter a place of business that requires it. The morons who want to wear a mask for the rest of their lives can do so. I couldn't care less. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted September 21, 2020 Report Share Posted September 21, 2020 I've had just about every vaccination you can think of being in the military for over 20 years and have never had a bad result. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted September 21, 2020 Report Share Posted September 21, 2020 Yeah. Stupid medical experts and their vaccines. Anyway, you guys hear measles is back? Weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted September 21, 2020 Report Share Posted September 21, 2020 6 hours ago, lodilobo said: I'm 70 years old, no health issues, no medication, active runner, and I haven't been sick in at least 10 years. I've been a vegetarian since 1973. It will be a cold day in Hell when I willingly accept a flu shot of any type. I only wear a mask when I have to enter a place of business that requires it. The morons who want to wear a mask for the rest of their lives can do so. I couldn't care less. Attaboy. Amazing what happens when you actively take care of the one and only thing that you have 100% control over what goes into it, rather than passively hoping that science will make it all better with their latest and greatest pills and/or injections, that they bombard us with every chance they get. Some of us are letting the media and politician's fear propaganda warfare paralyze them, all while not giving 2 mother fucking shits about what the government lets the meat and dairy industries put into their Big Macs, Double Doubles and the 10 other pounds of meat they throw down that hole each week. ^ Yea, I went all crazy vegan on you which I have never done, but fuck, some of you need a swift kick in the mother fucking ass... Seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted September 21, 2020 Report Share Posted September 21, 2020 12 minutes ago, D Bone said: Attaboy. Amazing what happens when you actively take care of the one and only thing that you have100% control over what goes into it, rather than passively hoping that science will make it all better with their latest and greatest and pills and/or injections, that they bombard us with every chance they get. Some of us are letting the media and politician's fear propaganda warfare paralyze them, all while not giving 2 mother fucking shits about what the government lets the meat and dairy industries put into their Big Macs, Double Doubles and the 10 other pounds of meat they throw down that hole each week. ^ Yea, I went all crazy vegan on you which I have never done, but fuck, some of you need a swift kick in the mother fucking ass... Seriously. I agree with people being fatasses, not taking care of themselves, and being a drain on society. Lazy, fat country. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted September 21, 2020 Report Share Posted September 21, 2020 4 hours ago, DieHardBrownsFan said: I've had just about every vaccination you can think of being in the military for over 20 years and have never had a bad result. I'm not happy with shots, but going through the basic training line - those air jobbies were weird. I never had a problem. Medical science has advanced to incredible heights these days. I do know when I was a kid, I had an uncle who took a pneumonia shot? and got pneumonia - after that, they changed the shots. But that was about...eh...a long time ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted September 21, 2020 Report Share Posted September 21, 2020 3 hours ago, MLD Woody said: Anyway, you guys hear measles is back? Weird. expected. liberals never listen. https://www.newsweek.com/mumps-outbreak-confirmed-texas-ice-detention-facility-1325445 U.S. Mumps Outbreak Confirmed at Texas ICE Detention Facility By Scott McDonald On 2/9/19 at 7:30 PM EST https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2016/06/19/diseases-thought-eradicated-world-refugee-day/ Six Diseases Return To US as Migration Advocates Celebrate ‘World Refugee Day’ https://townhall.com/tipsheet/christinerousselle/2016/06/01/arizonas-measles-outbreak-traced-to-illegal-immigrant-n2172048 Arizona's Measles Outbreak Traced to Illegal Immigrant 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted September 21, 2020 Report Share Posted September 21, 2020 1 hour ago, MLD Woody said: I agree with people being fatasses, not taking care of themselves, and being a drain on society. Lazy, fat country. Yea, I went all preachy and judgey which I try to never do, but I just get so frustrated with the world around me now. I'll be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lodilobo Posted September 21, 2020 Report Share Posted September 21, 2020 54 minutes ago, D Bone said: Yea, I went all preachy and judgey which I try to never do, but I just get so frustrated with the world around me now. I'll be better. It's ok to get preachy and judgey.....keep doing it. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted September 21, 2020 Report Share Posted September 21, 2020 2 hours ago, calfoxwc said: expected. liberals never listen. https://www.newsweek.com/mumps-outbreak-confirmed-texas-ice-detention-facility-1325445 U.S. Mumps Outbreak Confirmed at Texas ICE Detention Facility By Scott McDonald On 2/9/19 at 7:30 PM EST https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2016/06/19/diseases-thought-eradicated-world-refugee-day/ Six Diseases Return To US as Migration Advocates Celebrate ‘World Refugee Day’ https://townhall.com/tipsheet/christinerousselle/2016/06/01/arizonas-measles-outbreak-traced-to-illegal-immigrant-n2172048 Arizona's Measles Outbreak Traced to Illegal Immigrant Blame the Mexicans! How original... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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