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tinythinker

***Official Gameday Thread Browns at Ravens

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8 hours ago, Icecube said:

Well, I don't put it all on OBJ, but he didn't help. There is something inherently wrong with this team. Did you notice the body language? 

Bingo. And it isn't about the coaches, nor the owner. We saw not a shred of difference in this team yesterday from Freddies team, nor Hues team.

There is no way a team should be this bad for this long.

11 hours ago, The Gipper said:

I do see that that was my point that you’re pointing all the fingers at OBJ when the whole rest of the team sucked swamp water.  I am not saying he  didn’t suck too but people act like 38 to 6 loss was all on his shoulders

He's supposed to be a great player.

Great players have had this tendency at times to carry a team when they suck.

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18 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

Seems he picked up where he left off last year.

Does this mean we have the worst QB in the division?

...again.?

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9 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Hey tia did you catch the Broncos-Titans game? One thing that Tannehill did was pull the Def offsides at a crucial point and the commentator said that the best pro QBs

in the NFL in the empty stadium environment were doing what great  experienced pro QBs do, double counts and hard counts.

I did not, but I'll be sure to go back and watch.

 

9 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Ditto on the analysis, but...

I just can't help but think Baker's issue is a simple one... namely that he's no longer playing football. Now he's a professional QB with a job.

Think back 2 years when he was younger and dumber and fuller of... think back another year to OU... even in big games like in Columbus he was playing... he was an ass and a poor winer, but he was playing a game. He was was cocksure... he was unflappable... he believed in himself.

Now with a job in a bigger faster league he just playing scared to screw up... and so naturally that's what he does. He's playing "tight".

 

By my recollection he cut loose only three throws on Sunday. Two were on the run (not by design) when he couldn't think he just reacted... and played a little ball.

Somehow he's got to find the fun again... and Stef needs to help him find it.

I honestly have to disagree...  To an extent.

The throw I just pointing out is probably the best example of just "cutting loose".  There is a time and a place for that - Russel Wilson is the best example.  But you also need to have fun while methodically working within the structure of the offense v what the defense has shown.  

Otherwise you just want to grip it and rip it every down and that does make you another Johnny Manziel. 

Baker needs to play with a measure of control and also know when to be the gun slinger off script.  If he only functions as the latter, then he'll never be a solution to the franchise without being the former as well.

Some of those poor throws Sunday to open receivers were him just cutting too loose. As a result, he puts too much into his throw and it sails.    Yes, it's a thing.   

 

 

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14 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

  

Blame? I'm not looking for blame at this moment, I'm looking for fixes.  The oline wasn't the biggest issue, and It's hard to just "assign" blame to the WR's if you can't be on the same page as your QB. 

Ghosts and anticipating pressure as opposed to "feeling" pressure has been, and will likely always be a big deal with Baker

 

If you're reading the coverage right, then how do you adjust to a QB who isn't seeing the same things?    That is a very more detailed journey that needs to be fleshed out.  

outstanding worded pair of dilemmas here  ^^ Tia.. The same type of stuff the all 22's showed last season too... Tennessee & Ravens 2nd game, saw tons of designed 1st false coverage's. That only gets Baker confused. (The Ghosts) Bake than will panic, not taking his 👀's off 1st read, pulling the ball down, to broken plays or fire drill plays.. 🙄.. Does our QB room watch our opponents coverage tape?  

Imho, Bake has got to get back to his Lincoln Riley tape days. Few on rhythm drops, but mostly back to on rhythm throws. Under center nor Not.. The ball has got to come out on time.. get the widest broom sticks money can buy at practice & get back to the basics of throwing thru windows, not breaking them..There's this thing called '"putting some air & touch under your football pass". Bake has totally lost it, if he ever had it?                                   if it takes a benching?          So.. be... it..!  #6🧔

OH-- and than there is this...atta boy 💪's

 
 
 
XPasefzB_bigger.jpg
 
PFF
 
 
Aaron Donald’s dominant SNF performance was one of the best from Week 1
 
 
 
 
Image
 
 
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14 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

Ghosts and anticipating pressure as opposed to "feeling" pressure has been, and will likely always be a big deal with Baker

 

If you're reading the coverage right, then how do you adjust to a QB who isn't seeing the same things?    That is a very more detailed journey that needs to be fleshed out.  

outstanding worded pair of dilemmas here  ^^ Tia.. The same type of stuff the all 22's showed last season too... Tennessee & Ravens 2nd game, saw tons of designed 1st false coverage's. That only gets Baker confused. Bake than will panic, not taking his 👀's off 1st read, pulling the ball down, to broken plays or fire drill plays.. 🙄.. Does our QB room watch our opponents coverage tape?  

Imho, Bake has got to get back to his Lincoln Riley tape days. Few on rhythm drops, but mostly back to on rhythm throws. Under center nor Not.. The ball has got to come out on time.. get the widest broom sticks money can buy at practice & get back to the basics of throwing thru windows, not breaking them..There's this thing called '"putting some air & touch under your football pass". Bake has totally lost it, if he ever had it?                                   if it takes a benching?          So.. be... it..!  #6🧔

OH-- and than there is this...atta boy 💪's

 
 
 
XPasefzB_bigger.jpg
 
PFF
 
 
Aaron Donald’s dominant SNF performance was one of the best from Week 1
 
 
 
 
Image
 
 

Larry O is fine... everyone else around him is garbage.. And Myles Garrett still has no POSITIVE effect on the outcome of games.. He's NOT a game changer by any stretch of the imagination..,,,,

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38 minutes ago, Gorka said:

Seems he picked up where he left off last year.

Does this mean we have the worst QB in the division?

...again.?

Right now, yes we do. Burrow lead his team down the field and threw the winning TD but refs called offensive PI and Bengals missed the tying FG. Burrow definitely got better in the 2nd half, and that's not great for us. Additionally, we literally have no secondary and no linebackers. Well, Denzel Ward is a stud, but that's it. 

Watch the Baker's first appearance against the Jets and watch his play Sunday. It's not the same guy. We DO have to calm down a little bit and understand that we likely played the 2nd best team in the league. Like, how would Burrow look against the Ravens? Probably not great. My biggest concern is that Baker couldn't deliver the ball to open people and he largely looked like a backup QB. He did nothing special. Even his TD was thrown to a WIDE OPEN guy. 

Our defense has been decimated by injuries and our QB is a head case. If we win Thursday, it'll be a slug fest. I'd honestly feel better if Baker would have just completed SOME of the 3rd down throws and scored SOME points. His inability to score in garbage time really terrifies me, and we were absolutely the worst team in the league Sunday. 

We have a short week and a humongous division game in 2 freaking days. It's time to change the narrative and make a statement. We come out and play a solid game that brings us a W...we'll be right back on track. We shit the bed and lose...well...it'll be bad. VERY bad. 

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22 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

Right now, yes we do. Burrow lead his team down the field and threw the winning TD but refs called offensive PI and Bengals missed the tying FG. Burrow definitely got better in the 2nd half, and that's not great for us. Additionally, we literally have no secondary and no linebackers. Well, Denzel Ward is a stud, but that's it. 

Watch the Baker's first appearance against the Jets and watch his play Sunday. It's not the same guy. We DO have to calm down a little bit and understand that we likely played the 2nd best team in the league. Like, how would Burrow look against the Ravens? Probably not great. My biggest concern is that Baker couldn't deliver the ball to open people and he largely looked like a backup QB. He did nothing special. Even his TD was thrown to a WIDE OPEN guy. 

Our defense has been decimated by injuries and our QB is a head case. If we win Thursday, it'll be a slug fest. I'd honestly feel better if Baker would have just completed SOME of the 3rd down throws and scored SOME points. His inability to score in garbage time really terrifies me, and we were absolutely the worst team in the league Sunday. 

We have a short week and a humongous division game in 2 freaking days. It's time to change the narrative and make a statement. We come out and play a solid game that brings us a W...we'll be right back on track. We shit the bed and lose...well...it'll be bad. VERY bad. 

Well one good thing about playing Cincy for the #1 vs. #2 draft pick overall. We can win the game and be #2, but they have their QB. Hello Lawrence!

Meanwhile back at the ranch, I'm betting Baker is replaced by game 8 or earlier by a more trusted & experienced QB in this offense-Case Keenum. Baker has 

met the brick wall of mediocrity unless he suddenly "gets it". I think tia's review was spot on unfortunately.

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Two things with Baker since 2018.
1.  Movement in the pocket was better that’s why the Russ comparisons were prevalent.  He was chubby last year. And when things got bad He had a check down option throughout 2018- last year the play caller didn’t believe in it 

2. He wasn’t asked to go empty sets and sling it downfield that often. His accuracy issues that he has now were not exposed due to the offensive scheme (being under center, more play action, 25-30 throw type games).

I hate to say it but I think you see a guy not putting in the work too.


Sunday I said oh $&@@ every time we were in empty sets.  We’ve been awful in this set going on two years now. He’s late and behind too many times - not processing reads quickly enough 

The line is not the problem, OBJ can be better, but QBs around the league deal with far greater issues.  The line took the fall last year- they performed well at times but we all pointed out to the 3-4 bad games when in reality our play caller and QB were always the main issue

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7 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

The line is not the problem, OBJ can be better, but QBs around the league deal with far greater issues 

Yeah, you're right. What bugs me is missing the throws that are there. Lamar Jackson literally didn't miss ONE in first half. And he wasn't supposed to be able to pass accurately. 

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I think Baker will be fine? (hope) - it's a brand new offense - going against a defense that is one of the best in the NFL.

 They seemed to be thinking instead of just playing. That's to be expected especially without a preseason to iron out the kinks.

Here's to a win Thurs.

 

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2 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

Yeah, you're right. What bugs me is missing the throws that are there. Lamar Jackson literally didn't miss ONE in first half. And he wasn't supposed to be able to pass accurately. 

True, except Lamar was going against an injury plagued secondary, and Baker was going against a top secondary, probably the best in the NFL. It's said they have the top three db's in the NFL, so there's that.

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1 hour ago, gumby73 said:

Ghosts and anticipating pressure as opposed to "feeling" pressure has been, and will likely always be a big deal with Baker

 

If you're reading the coverage right, then how do you adjust to a QB who isn't seeing the same things?    That is a very more detailed journey that needs to be fleshed out.  

outstanding worded pair of dilemmas here  ^^ Tia.. The same type of stuff the all 22's showed last season too... Tennessee & Ravens 2nd game, saw tons of designed 1st false coverage's. That only gets Baker confused. (The Ghosts) Bake than will panic, not taking his 👀's off 1st read, pulling the ball down, to broken plays or fire drill plays.. 🙄.. Does our QB room watch our opponents coverage tape?  

Imho, Bake has got to get back to his Lincoln Riley tape days. Few on rhythm drops, but mostly back to on rhythm throws. Under center nor Not.. The ball has got to come out on time.. get the widest broom sticks money can buy at practice & get back to the basics of throwing thru windows, not breaking them..There's this thing called '"putting some air & touch under your football pass". Bake has totally lost it, if he ever had it?                                   if it takes a benching?          So.. be... it..!  #6🧔

OH-- and than there is this...atta boy 💪's

 
 
 
XPasefzB_bigger.jpg
 
PFF
 
 
Aaron Donald’s dominant SNF performance was one of the best from Week 1
 
 
 
 
Image
 
 

Can't stress this enough, Bakers timing from the gun is just "off".  He's much more in rythmn under center.  Tour was the first to point that out last season and by 1/4 through the year it was readily apparent to anyone with a pair of eyes.

I think being a bit more, i guess ill use the word "creative" with our play action, might help solve some temporary issues.    JoJo Natson is a high 4.3 runner, some of those tap sweeps, even the fakes and misdirection that the Chiefs show go a long way into slowing down a pass rush and giving Mahomes increased time to throw without pressure.   Of course that sets up things like the screen game as well which this coaching staff desperately needs to also creatively involve more often.  That was one of the nice things about those early days after Freddie took over as OC...  I haven't seen our screen or misdirection game work that well in years.

Involving the backs in the passing game on non-blatantly obvious throwing downs+distances can really help get Baker in rythmn as well.   I like Stef as a coach, but he leaves a whole cadre of attack methods off the table in favor of a more "traditional" approach far too often.

And the lack of commitment to the run game early is a sign of a play caller turned HC over thinking things far much.  He saw the stuff Campbell put on Chubb and went empty sets on early downs.  Without doing the math, I'd wager the numbers crunch out to show that as our most inefficient formation based on expected yardage gain.

Edit: and yes, Jobi played like an animal.    I said it a year or so ago, but when he puts it together consistently, he's our future 3 tech when we move on from Sheldon.     If he continues playing at a high level by mid-season, Barry would be wise to get him locked up to a smart deal.  3 maybe 4 years.  He isn't such a name where he'll command a ton of cash.  But between Jobi, Billings, possibly Elliot - you could have a good interior rotation for the next 4 year's rather inexpensive.    And much like how the Gmen did it for years, that's the approach i take to IDL.    Notable exceptions of course (Donald, Cox, Buckner)

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8 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

Yeah, you're right. What bugs me is missing the throws that are there. Lamar Jackson literally didn't miss ONE in first half. And he wasn't supposed to be able to pass accurately. 

I agree he made his plays.


But Lamar made one tough throw deep and on the money.  He missed Mark Andrews until mark Andrews bailed him out and he didn’t throw into tight windows or coverage all game.  He played a defense petrified of getting gashed in the run game.  Baker played a defense waiting for us to go down field and change the score quickly

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2 hours ago, gumby73 said:

Imho, Bake has got to get back to his Lincoln Riley tape days. Few on rhythm drops, but mostly back to on rhythm throws. Under center nor Not.. The ball has got to come out on time.. get the widest broom sticks money can buy at practice & get back to the basics of throwing thru windows, not breaking them..There's this thing called '"putting some air & touch under your football pass". Bake has totally lost it, if he ever had it?                                   if it takes a benching?          So.. be... it..!  #6🧔

OH-- and than there is this...atta boy 💪's

 

Baker will be fine. A bad start yesterday had a compounding effect. He should find a way to get OBJ involved early on, and we’ll see a different OBJ. 

Vernon had a terrible play early where he gave up weak side contain in the laziest manner. Shouldn’t happen to a veteran.

Larry O was impressive as hell. We need him to be that guy for us in the middle. Explosive.

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Baker said it was a "punch in the mouth" that they needed. I imagine the entire offense isn't settled in yet.

It's heartening to note: Stefanski said they were outplayed and outcoached. That says a lot of good things about this coaching staff,

instead of throwing his players under the bus but a previous head coach that isn't worth mentioning...

https://sports.yahoo.com/baker-mayfield-sometimes-nice-punch-133823544.html

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33 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

Baker said it was a "punch in the mouth" that they needed. I imagine the entire offense isn't settled in yet.

It's heartening to note: Stefanski said they were outplayed and outcoached. That says a lot of good things about this coaching staff,

instead of throwing his players under the bus but a previous head coach that isn't worth mentioning...

https://sports.yahoo.com/baker-mayfield-sometimes-nice-punch-133823544.html

They needed a punch in the mouth last year... a year too late!

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6 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

Soooooooo, I went back and watched a couple things. I wanted to see if Baker missed OBJ as many times as I thought. Unfortunately, he did. There were two deep-ish throws down the middle that Baker threw behind OBJ, and one should have resulted in a pick but OBJ did enough to disrupt the play. These were the exact throws Lamar Jackson made with ease. There were multiple other times where Baker appeared to be looking right at an open guy but didn't pull the trigger. THAT'S what concerns me. 

Baker's struggles had very little to do with knowledge of the offense. You don't have to be knowledgeable to make an accurate throw. To hit your release valve for 6 yards on 2nd and 10. To find your bazillion dollar TE for more than FIFTEEN FREAKING YARDS. 

Baker didn't just look bad, he WAS bad, and I'm not sure he's redeemable. If you can't make intermediate throws down the seam or across the middle, you can't play QB. The really sad thing is that he used to be KNOWN for those passes. Whatever is wrong with Baker is between his ears, and I don't know if that's fixable. He was truly worse than people are saying, and I'm not sure what to do next. 

Baker will likely be down in a good chunk of games this year. At this point, I literally have no idea who our linebackers are going to be because Phillips is gone for the year (I assume). The Ravens had people running WIDE open Sunday, and even when people were covered they STILL made every catch. Our offense is not designed to come from behind, so we're going to need our defense to simply find a way to keep us in it until our offense (ahem, our QUARTERBACK) finds his footing....or God help us...gets replaced. 

Jiggs, you nailed it again. I rewatched some of it and feel the same way you do. Baker was bad, and it has nothing to do with the "new system." New systems don't make you throw inaccurately or not see/miss receivers. 

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4 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

Baker said it was a "punch in the mouth" that they needed. I imagine the entire offense isn't settled in yet.

It's heartening to note: Stefanski said they were outplayed and outcoached. That says a lot of good things about this coaching staff,

instead of throwing his players under the bus but a previous head coach that isn't worth mentioning...

https://sports.yahoo.com/baker-mayfield-sometimes-nice-punch-133823544.html

Let's hope we don't get that same "punch in the mouth" 15 more rounds. 😵🥊

 

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Lost in all of this talk about the offense, I'd like to turn my attention to the defense.

I think Joe Woods is a solid coach and I like some of the things I've seen from his tape in Denver.  But Unless this is some weird long term play to see if Baltimore would put as much on film for a later game that might have playoff implications... (can't imagine it being that)    It was a master class in watching Greg Roman whoop his ass.  Either that or a man in such a complete fear of being embarrassed in the backend, that he forget that he's playing against a QB with a sub 50% completion rate when pressured. Seriously,  the amount of space he let the Ravens have to operate Sunday is completely unacceptable right from the very first snap.    The man had a game plan that, if I didn't know who the QB was, I would have presumed it was Aaron fucking Rogers given the depth of our DB's and the respect paid to the QB's passing ability. 

You made Lamar a better passer by giving him enough time to finish and e-sign his 2019 tax return the majority of the first half. 

 

I'm hoping this is a big case of Stef and Woods just being out of their element with the shortened off season and injuries.    Because as play-callers, a couple people on this board could have done better.   And that is zero hyperbole from me. 

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Double post.   I'll say this, watching the Oline work on the Ravens front - Wyatt Teller should be getting some love.  Kid did work early and often.  

 

edit:  I'm beginning to think if there's any hope for salvaging the season while slowly bringing along Baker, this team is going to have to do their best impression of the 2016 Dallas Cowboys.   Run the ball, play action, control the clock, play keep away, and hope to god the defense finds a stop or two along the way.

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Is it safe to say that we can pretty much throw out completion percentage in college in the trash as an indicator of a QBs "accuracy". 

Brandon Weeden and Baker Mayfield had ridiculous completion percentages in college due to offenses that schemed people wide open. In the NFL, they've struggled to hit the broad side of a barn. Hell, even in Mayfield's rookie season, I thought he got a lot of help from his receivers. 

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2 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Lost in all of this talk about the offense, I'd like to turn my attention to the defense.

I don't have it in me to discuss the defense. The 99 yard drive says it all, and I can't bring up anything else. You know what's REALLY strange? Our defense lead the entire league in pass pressure percentage. We forced Lamar under pressure 50% of the time, which was tops. 

And it didn't matter one bit. 

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20 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

Is it safe to say that we can pretty much throw out completion percentage in college in the trash as an indicator of a QBs "accuracy". 

If you really want to be pissed off, go back and watch the throws Kyler Murray made to Deondre Hopkins. New star WR in a new system...but he had 15 catches for 150 yards. Murray made throws that Baker can only dream of. 

Go back and watch some of the throws Cousins made. Ben made. Heck, even Joe Burrow made multiple big time throws at the end of the game to almost beat the Bolts. In fact, the Bengals are saying they feel like they won that game and they can't WAIT to play Cleveland Thursday. You guys think OUR guys are excited about playing? Hell no. There's so much pressure on our team that you wouldn't be able to pound a needle up our asses with a 10 pound hammer. 

Baker does NOT get a "pass" against the Ravens. If anything, our crappy defense does because we played the Ravens and we had so many injuries. I can't imagine how tight Baker will be this week. Remember when he was playing well forever ago and he was just out there having fun? Running down the field? Screaming and feeling dangerous? God that seems like forever ago doesn't it? 

Yeah, it's one game, but it's really a bit more than that. It's really game 17 that carried over from last year. 

Oh, and screw you OBJ. Oh yeah, I nearly forgot. Screw YOU Hodges. That asshole got a false start on a play that was designed for him. Ravens' star CB just went out due to injury, OBJ went out for SOME reason, we had a deep shot dialed up for freaking HODGES and he got so excited that he jumped early like an asshole. Next play? Backwards again. Hello 3rd and 41.

3rd....and...41. Yes, that happened. Then, we punt the ball down to the 1 yard line, they go 99, goodnight Irene. 

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I think the Bengals beat our ass. We don’t have a team out there. Idk what we have. The bengals played better than us week 1. I’m very skeptical of the preparation of the team. They are behind the 8 ball and it showed 

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I'm nowhere near ready to say that the Bengals are going to beat our asses, BUT I will say they're likely to play much looser. They're fresh off the first pick of the draft so they don't feel the pressures we'll feel. Not only that, they had that game won AND they beat our ass to end the season last year. It's week 2, but it's gonna be intense AS F&@K.

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10 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

I'm nowhere near ready to say that the Bengals are going to beat our asses, BUT I will say they're likely to play much looser. They're fresh off the first pick of the draft so they don't feel the pressures we'll feel. Not only that, they had that game won AND they beat our ass to end the season last year. It's week 2, but it's gonna be intense AS F&@K.

If the Browns lose this game... I want Haslam gone... They have no business losing this game... I understand Haslam doesn't suit up... But he hires these jackoffs!... The way him and his ass hat wife has run this franchise... They need to be run out of town...

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15 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Double post.   I'll say this, watching the Oline work on the Ravens front - Wyatt Teller should be getting some love.  Kid did work early and often.  

 

edit:  I'm beginning to think if there's any hope for salvaging the season while slowly bringing along Baker, this team is going to have to do their best impression of the 2016 Dallas Cowboys.   Run the ball, play action, control the clock, play keep away, and hope to god the defense finds a stop or two along the way.

The Line was really solid all day.

i believe Wyatt Teller had the highest PPF score of all guards last week 91.2.  He did a fair bit of owning his man And others  throughout 

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Hehehehe. I tend to cut Browns fans a ton of slack. We've been through so much crap that it's almost unbelievable. Honestly, what most of us simply want is to have fun on Sunday again. What's that mean in terms of our record? I have no idea, but I know fans aren't having fun and they're just tired of being laughed at. 

I know we can't lose this game Thursday, that's obvious. And you know what? We SHOULDN'T lose! The Bengals were the worst team in the world last year and we play them week 2. There's NO WAY they should come close to beating us. Maybe we're looking at this the wrong way. Perhaps we just laid a clunker against the Ravens and we're much better than we showed. Watch us go out and beat the shit out of the Bengals tomorrow night. 

Here's what I'm thinking. We're not likely to get down 30 points like last week. We'll be able to utilize the ground game the entire time and wear their butts out. I'm predicting a very close 1st half, and then I think we simply "out talent" them. Cream rises to the top, OBJ scores on a 50 yarder, Chubb and Hunt blow up, and Baker finally gets to play "game manager" while finding his footing. 

Baker = 17-24 for 223 yards and 2 tds with 1 pick. 

Final score = Browns 27, Bengals 16

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1 hour ago, SdBacker80 said:

The Line was really solid all day.

i believe Wyatt Teller had the highest PPF score of all guards last week 91.2.  He did a fair bit of owning his man And others  throughout 

Really? Well PFF and I saw the same things then this time. 

For a spot many of us were concerned about, it's an early return that shows promise.    If he keeps this up and Wills stays healthy while improving, then it's one of the best lines in the NFL.

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