Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
htownbrown

Apology accepted

Recommended Posts

My thoughts 

- A lot of "facts" (maybe? No citations) listed at the beginning that, without further detail, could be explained reasonably in many ways

- Appreciate that this guy has spent his career pushing environmental issues, buy he isn't exactly a climatologist

- The further you read it turns into what sounds like an advertisement for his new book. 

- I don't disagree that media and politicians try to hype up scientific issues, in either direction, to try and gain traction (or views / clicks). "We're .5 degrees warmer and that could cause issues in a few decades when sea levels rise 1 foot" doesn't get as many views as "Drowned Cities? Climate Change is a Threat to Humanity!" That ties into issues with the media and the poor scientific literacy and attention span of our country. A lot of times if you follow the rabbit hole of sources back to the actual study their conclusion doesn't sound anything like the news report on it. If I assume the best attentions I think that talk is to get people to take notice and do something before we really fuck things up. Instead of us being frogs on a pot of water that gets slowly and slowly hotter. 

 

I think the alarmist beef is more against the media than actual scientists. But, like I said, I don't trust the American public to understand the most basic shit, so there's no way I'd expect them to react to climate change appropriately. Hell, we have posters on this board that would tell you evolution is "just a theory"....

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MLD Woody said:

My thoughts 

- A lot of "facts" (maybe? No citations) listed at the beginning that, without further detail, could be explained reasonably in many ways

True.  I assume it's in the book.  I ordered it so I'll let you know.

- Appreciate that this guy has spent his career pushing environmental issues, buy he isn't exactly a climatologist

True again, but most people the public takes their cues from aren't either.  What he is an expert in is how the politics inside the organizations (IPCC etc.) affect the message that we get from them.  That's what he is actually apologizing about.  That's why I'm buying the book.  I've been beating the misrepresentation drum for quite a long time, not the data is bad drum.  The data and the conclusions (or shall I say predictions) never looked right together.  

- The further you read it turns into what sounds like an advertisement for his new book. 

Agreed.  You should buy it.  Not everything that makes a profit is bad.

- I don't disagree that media and politicians try to hype up scientific issues, in either direction, to try and gain traction (or views / clicks). "We're .5 degrees warmer and that could cause issues in a few decades when sea levels rise 1 foot" doesn't get as many views as "Drowned Cities? Climate Change is a Threat to Humanity!" That ties into issues with the media and the poor scientific literacy and attention span of our country. A lot of times if you follow the rabbit hole of sources back to the actual study their conclusion doesn't sound anything like the news report on it. If I assume the best attentions I think that talk is to get people to take notice and do something before we really fuck things up. Instead of us being frogs on a pot of water that gets slowly and slowly hotter. 

No matter what happens, we will not be the frog in the pot.

 

I think the alarmist beef is more against the media than actual scientists. But, like I said, I don't trust the American public to understand the most basic shit, so there's no way I'd expect them to react to climate change appropriately. Hell, we have posters on this board that would tell you evolution is "just a theory"....

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, htownbrown said:

No denying climate change is a big political football. Man made or not, it is happening....  https://www.newyorker.com/news/annals-of-a-warming-planet/a-disastrous-summer-in-the-arctic?utm_source=nl&utm_brand=tny&utm_mailing=TNY_Daily_062720&utm_campaign=aud-dev&utm_medium=email&bxid=5e1bf8d87ace5a52f720e376&cndid=59654696&hasha=b36ea6a8d5e239d5b132d029be4fc26c&hashb=a14e6f2b1e41e20f91554c13249495ccae8678a6&hashc=256d292cdc0a353f41388fc27a45e4842a22f42f2bef768ba01d532c56d1bec6&esrc=bounceX&utm_term=TNY_Daily

Nuclear? Please- it's totally clean until it isn't.... Three Mile, Chernoybl, Fukushima... With a hot 1\2 life, um- if they had nuclear reactors in Egypt when the pyramids were built- that stuff would finally have cooled down to an almost safe level....  Count me skeptical we're going to be able to contain our nuclear waste for that long. Of course we won't be around to deal with it a few thousand years from now.... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Arctic Ocean is warming up, icebergs are growing scarcer and in some places the seals are finding the water too hot, according to a report to the Commerce Department yesterday from the Consulate at Bergen, Norway.

Reports from fishermen, seal hunters and explorers all point to a radical change in climate conditions and hitherto unheard of temperatures in the Arctic zone.

Exploration expeditions report that scarcely any ice has been met as far north as 81 degrees 29 minutes.

Soundings to a depth of 3,100 meters showed the gulf stream still very warm
.

Great masses of ice have been replaced by moraines of earth and stones, the report continued, while at many points well known glaciers have entirely disappeared.

Very few seals and no white fish are found in the eastern Arctic, while vast shoals of herring and smelts which have never before ventured so far north, are being encountered in the old seal fishing grounds.

Within a few years it is predicted that due to the ice melt the sea will rise and make most coast cities uninhabitable.

I must apologize.

I neglected to mention that this report was from November 2, 1922 as reported by the AP and published in The Washington Post 96 years ago.

This must have been caused by Model T Ford emissions or possibly from horse farts.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Vambo said:

The Arctic Ocean is warming up, icebergs are growing scarcer and in some places the seals are finding the water too hot, according to a report to the Commerce Department yesterday from the Consulate at Bergen, Norway.

Reports from fishermen, seal hunters and explorers all point to a radical change in climate conditions and hitherto unheard of temperatures in the Arctic zone.

Exploration expeditions report that scarcely any ice has been met as far north as 81 degrees 29 minutes.

Soundings to a depth of 3,100 meters showed the gulf stream still very warm
.

Great masses of ice have been replaced by moraines of earth and stones, the report continued, while at many points well known glaciers have entirely disappeared.

Very few seals and no white fish are found in the eastern Arctic, while vast shoals of herring and smelts which have never before ventured so far north, are being encountered in the old seal fishing grounds.

Within a few years it is predicted that due to the ice melt the sea will rise and make most coast cities uninhabitable.

I must apologize.

I neglected to mention that this report was from November 2, 1922 as reported by the AP and published in The Washington Post 96 years ago.

This must have been caused by Model T Ford emissions or possibly from horse farts.

Apparently we have a few million more cars, and a lot more horses around now....

Carbon dioxide levels

Couldn't find a good picture, but 100 years ago Glacier Bay wasn't even a Bay- it was an ice sheet. Glacier NP is predicted to not have any glaciers fairly soon. I've hiked the Exit Glacier trail outside of Seward Alaska, where the glacier has retreated a mile from where it was 100 years ago. I won't even start as to what's happening in Antarctica- New York had better hope the Ross Ice Shelf doesn't collapse...  Yeah Vambo, it's all an illusion, nothing to worry about.... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Basically, the media and some politicians can be guilty of "climate alarmism" and at the same time we can be doing not nearly enough to correct this issue. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Apparently we have a few million more cars, and a lot more horses around now....

Carbon dioxide levels

Couldn't find a good picture, but 100 years ago Glacier Bay wasn't even a Bay- it was an ice sheet. Glacier NP is predicted to not have any glaciers fairly soon. I've hiked the Exit Glacier trail outside of Seward Alaska, where the glacier has retreated a mile from where it was 100 years ago. I won't even start as to what's happening in Antarctica- New York had better hope the Ross Ice Shelf doesn't collapse...  Yeah Vambo, it's all an illusion, nothing to worry about.... 

The hottest period on record occurred in the 1930’s when CO2 emissions were only a fraction of what they are today.

Must’ve been the horse farts.

9B644CA8-A422-4533-87BC-E3F1F1D26BA7.png

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, hoorta said:

Couldn't find a good picture, but 100 years ago Glacier Bay wasn't even a Bay- it was an ice sheet. Glacier NP is predicted to not have any glaciers fairly soon. I've hiked the Exit Glacier trail outside of Seward Alaska, where the glacier has retreated a mile from where it was 100 years ago. I won't even start as to what's happening in Antarctica- New York had better hope the Ross Ice Shelf doesn't collapse...  Yeah Vambo, it's all an illusion, nothing to worry about.... 

 

1 hour ago, MLD Woody said:

Basically, the media and some politicians can be guilty of "climate alarmism" and at the same time we can be doing not nearly enough to correct this issue. 

speaking of horse farts, "we don't do enough...vote democratic" stinks worse.

Maybe fake mmgw stinks worse.

https://www.livescience.com/44330-jurassic-dinosaur-carbon-dioxide.html

Dinosaur Era Had 5 Times Today's CO2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Canton Dawg said:

The hottest period on record occurred in the 1930’s when CO2 emissions were only a fraction of what they are today.

Must’ve been the horse farts.

9B644CA8-A422-4533-87BC-E3F1F1D26BA7.png

Sorry- I've got a different explanation The Dust Bowl.  Ever wonder why it's so freaking hot in the Sahara Desert? Or you miss that there's world wide warming, and what's happening in the USA is being amplified in the polar regions? 

Doesn't surprise me at all that anti environment Trump's followers march right behind him....  Thinking Global Warming is a bunch of hooey and CO2 levels have nothing to do with it.  Let me take you on a trip to Venus with an atmosphere of 96% carbon dioxide and a surface temperature hot enough to melt lead as Exhibit A of the Greenhouse effect run amok. With an Earthlike atmosphere, I don't doubt we'd already have a few guys living at the planets poles where the temperature would probably be under 100 on most days... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, calfoxwc said:

 

speaking of horse farts, "we don't do enough...vote democratic" stinks worse.

Maybe fake mmgw stinks worse.

https://www.livescience.com/44330-jurassic-dinosaur-carbon-dioxide.html

Dinosaur Era Had 5 Times Today's CO2

I knew it would be a waste of time arguing with the MAGAs.... I'm done....  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

 

speaking of horse farts, "we don't do enough...vote democratic" stinks worse.

Maybe fake mmgw stinks worse.

https://www.livescience.com/44330-jurassic-dinosaur-carbon-dioxide.html

Dinosaur Era Had 5 Times Today's CO2

Oh I just couldn't resist a parting shot, after thinking about it ...  That's why during the Jurassic and Cretaceous periods, the entire Earth was a tropical jungle.  DUH!!!!  I'm sure it was those lefty scientists who planted dinosaur fossils near the South Pole.  :D  :D  :D   Or you ask your favorite Brontosaurus for a more accurate weather report from 100 million years ago?   :D  :D  :D 

"The Cretaceous, which occurred approximately 145 million to 66 million years ago, was one of the warmest periods in the history of Earth. The poles were devoid of ice and average temperatures of up to 35 degrees Celsius (95F) prevailed in the oceans. "A typical greenhouse climate; some even refer to it as a 'super greenhouse' ," explains Professor Dr. Jens Herrle of the Goethe University and Senckenberg Biodiversity and Climate Research Center. In case your're curious, the estimation during that time, the oceans were 35 degrees warmer than they are now. You could have taken a very comfortable bath in any of them, if an ichthyosaurus didn't get you first... 

You really must like the emanations from Trump's ass Cal, of course MAGAs think they smell like a rose........  

So besides around 0% of the black vote, there's 4 million members of the Sierra Club who probably aren't voting for Coal Miner's Son Donald either.  He's got a solid 21 electoral votes from West Virginia, Oklahoma, the Dakotas, and Wyoming. After that, lotsa luck. Coal stack.... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

truth is, for years, Hoorta, I have said the one aspect of "mmgw" I agree with - is the destruction of the virgin rain forests.

Too bad you didn't get a climate degree. and I've been talking about the fraud of "mmgw" for many years.

See, that is BEFORE Pres Trump. He's only been pres for not even four years. Do the math.

You can slobber all over the paris accord and the kyoto treaty, but they were garbage.

Here is a HUGE problem with the climbing CO2 rates. And your little woodpecker can attest to the fact that I've brought it up many, many years ago.

Climate change: Study warns Earth’s rainforest carbon ...

https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1250901/Climate-change-study-Earth-rainforest-carbon-sinks-shrinking-CO2-global-warming

Climate change: 30-year rainforest study finds Earth's carbon sinks are nearing collapse

CLIMATE CHANGE is decimating the planet's ability to remove carbon from the atmosphere by shrinking intact rainforests in the Amazon and Africa, a climate expert has told Express.co.uk.

Mar 04, 2020 · Tropical rainforests play a critical role in regulating climate change by drawing carbon dioxide from the air in a process known as carbon sequestration. …

Climate change: Rainforest absorption of CO2 becoming ... - US

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/climate-change-rainforest-absorption-of-co2-becoming-erratic-9086304.html

Jan 26, 2014 · News > Science Climate change: Rainforest absorption of CO2 becoming erratic. For each 1C rise in temperature, tropical regions now release about …

Author: Steve Connor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The rain forests are being destroyed.

So, who is sniffing the ass of al gore? hoorta and his little woodpecker, you betcha.

(and somewhere out there, so is shepwrite, who I used to argue this with.)

Deforestation major factor in global warming The clearing of forests is a big contributor to global climate change. About 20 percent of the world's greenhouse gas emissions come from the clearing of tropical forests. Since 2000, the loss of tree cover has added 98.7Gt to global CO2-emissions.

https://www.theworldcounts.com/challenges/planet-earth/forests-and-deserts/rate-of-deforestation#:~:text=Deforestation major factor in global warming The clearing,tree cover has added 98.7Gt to global CO2-emissions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

truth is, for years, Hoorta, I have said the one aspect of "mmgw" I agree with - is the destruction of the virgin rain forests.

Too bad you didn't get a climate degree. and I've been talking about the fraud of "mmgw" for many years.

See, that is BEFORE Pres Trump. He's only been pres for not even four years. Do the math.

You can slobber all over the paris accord and the kyoto treaty, but they were garbage.

Here is a HUGE problem with the climbing CO2 rates. And your little woodpecker can attest to the fact that I've brought it up many, many years ago.

Climate change: Study warns Earth’s rainforest carbon ...

https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1250901/Climate-change-study-Earth-rainforest-carbon-sinks-shrinking-CO2-global-warming

Climate change: 30-year rainforest study finds Earth's carbon sinks are nearing collapse

CLIMATE CHANGE is decimating the planet's ability to remove carbon from the atmosphere by shrinking intact rainforests in the Amazon and Africa, a climate expert has told Express.co.uk.

Mar 04, 2020 · Tropical rainforests play a critical role in regulating climate change by drawing carbon dioxide from the air in a process known as carbon sequestration. …

Climate change: Rainforest absorption of CO2 becoming ... - US

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/climate-change-rainforest-absorption-of-co2-becoming-erratic-9086304.html

Jan 26, 2014 · News > Science Climate change: Rainforest absorption of CO2 becoming erratic. For each 1C rise in temperature, tropical regions now release about …

Author: Steve Connor

Shit- tell me something I didn't already know Cal.... Of course destroying the tropical forest carbon sinks is a big problem....  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, hoorta said:

Sorry- I've got a different explanation The Dust Bowl.

The Dust Bowl?

Have you ever stopped to think what caused the dust bowl?

The heat and drought for nearly a decade caused the dust bowl, not the other way around.

That’s like the tail wagging the dog.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, hoorta said:

Shit- tell me something I didn't already know Cal.... Of course destroying the tropical forest carbon sinks is a big problem....  

if you knew that, you should have understood my point - but no, you went dumb ass reply.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Canton Dawg said:

The Dust Bowl?

Have you ever stopped to think what caused the dust bowl?

The heat and drought for nearly a decade caused the dust bowl, not the other way around.

That’s like the tail wagging the dog.

And without any ground radiation of water vapor and really low atmospheric humidity- it caused the temperatures to skyrocket. Hence the spike in your graph... I wasn't saying what caused the Dust Bowl- the Dust bowl was the cause of the temperature spike. I know it's sort of hard to understand.... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

if you knew that, you should have understood my point - but no, you went dumb ass reply.

Don't worry Cal- there's plenty of dumb ass climate denial around here to go around.... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, hoorta said:

Don't worry Cal- there's plenty of dumb ass climate denial around here to go around.... 

nah - there isn't denial, there is just truth that would set you mmgw wonks free, but your emotional knee jerking won't let it happen. Pro-"man made global warming" is such a farce - you all had to change the name to "climate change". The earth was supposed to flood over by 1977. LOL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, hoorta said:

And without any ground radiation of water vapor and really low atmospheric humidity- it caused the temperatures to skyrocket. Hence the spike in your graph... I wasn't saying what caused the Dust Bowl- the Dust bowl was the cause of the temperature spike. I know it's sort of hard to understand.... 

They were both caused by stagnant Rossby waves.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

nah - there isn't denial, there is just truth that would set you mmgw wonks free, but your emotional knee jerking won't let it happen. Pro-"man made global warming" is such a farce - you all had to change the name to "climate change". The earth was supposed to flood over by 1977. LOL

Other way around Cal- those saying it isn't happening are the ones in denial. My POV is sure- man made causes aren't the only reason the planet is warming up- but it sure is a contributing factor. I'm not like the crackhead total greenies who want zero carbon emissions, that's impractical.  Solar energy? Wind Farms? OK, but save the Eagles- who only look down, and have been taken out by those turbines- and they are eyesores...  

Electric cars arent going to catch on until they have the range of a regular car, and how many people are going to be willing to wait around for a recharge on a cross country trip? Now if you're into rocket science, in theory you can build a car powered by liquid hydrogen (or even compressed hydrogen gas) with water as the end product- but be careful with that -400F gas tank, not to mention the explosion hazard.  :) 

If you read the article I originally posted- the author does make sense that thawing permafrost will eventually create a feedback loop with methane gas being released as it thaws. And you can't deny an all-time temperature record of 100 degrees+ was just set north of the Arctic Circle. Is that significant? Maybe. Yeah- I did have to look up the record, and I knew it can get mighty hot in the Arctic and sub arctic with near 24 hours of continuous daylight and low humidity. Fairbanks hit 99 degrees, 102 years ago. OTOH, in the last five years Alaska has had their five warmest years ever- consecutively.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@hoorta you're wasting your time. 

 

Look through every other climate change thread for proof. 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MLD Woody said:

@hoorta you're wasting your time. 

 

Look through every other climate change thread for proof. 

Yeah- just like Trump is the most wonderful president ever.  :)  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People are NOT anti science

People are anti liars

And from this, science is not immune.

Far too often people of science manipulate their data to fit their particular agenda. Or even worse, to fit the agenda of those financing their research.

I love science!  without political agendas.

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, hoorta said:

Other way around Cal- those saying it isn't happening are the ones in denial. My POV is sure- man made causes aren't the only reason the planet is warming up- but it sure is a contributing factor. I'm not like the crackhead total greenies who want zero carbon emissions, that's impractical.  Solar energy? Wind Farms? OK, but save the Eagles- who only look down, and have been taken out by those turbines- and they are eyesores...  

Electric cars arent going to catch on until they have the range of a regular car, and how many people are going to be willing to wait around for a recharge on a cross country trip? Now if you're into rocket science, in theory you can build a car powered by liquid hydrogen (or even compressed hydrogen gas) with water as the end product- but be careful with that -400F gas tank, not to mention the explosion hazard.  :) 

If you read the article I originally posted- the author does make sense that thawing permafrost will eventually create a feedback loop with methane gas being released as it thaws. And you can't deny an all-time temperature record of 100 degrees+ was just set north of the Arctic Circle. Is that significant? Maybe. Yeah- I did have to look up the record, and I knew it can get mighty hot in the Arctic and sub arctic with near 24 hours of continuous daylight and low humidity. Fairbanks hit 99 degrees, 102 years ago. OTOH, in the last five years Alaska has had their five warmest years ever- consecutively.  

A. Everybody knows climate changes. It's changing. But SUV's, and fines...and fees.... and the earth flooding by 1977, and all the money al gore has made on the subject....how high/low we set our thermostats, not being allowed to have a campfire, cows farting, farming fines/fees, "mmgw" extra costs for every and any reason the left can make up... you can stick all that political and financial crap somewhere and shove it.

The united nations official even ADMITTED ...that global REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH was never going to happen unless mmgw was globally accepted.

yeah, "mmgw" is so critical we're all going to be flooded out, blah blah blah...and guess what? CHINA and INDIA, two of the worst, are NOT BOUND by that worthless kyoto treaty.

Countries in Africa, Asia, etc... underdeveloped...guess what? they can SELL carbon credits "they don't use".... to rich countries !

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH !!!!!

it's about redistribution of wealth globally.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so, Hoorta, how does it feel to "know" man made global warming was real, until it was found out to be a fraud with UN ulterior motives, so obviously, that they changed the name to "climate change"

May the farce be with you - until you read on:

The UN Makes it Official: Global Warming Hysteria Is All ...

https://www.foxnews.com › opinion › the-un-makes-it...

For years, climate realists around the world have been warning the international community that the entire man-made global warming myth and resulting hysteria is all a scheme to redistribute wealth...

Author: Noel Sheppard

Global Warming: A Scheme To Redistribute Wealth ...

https://www.lewrockwell.com › 2019 › 12 › no_author › ...

Dec 05, 2019 · As the “science” behind man-made global warming has been increasingly discredited, the story has changed. Now it’s not about saving the environment but about redistributing wealth, says a leading member of the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.

Top Scientist: UN “Climate Finance” Is Subsidy for Kleptocracy

https://www.thenewamerican.com › tech › environment › ...

Jan 26, 2016 · PARIS — The international wealth-redistribution schemes of the United Nations, justified under the guise of battling alleged man-made global warming, are …

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

furthermore:

https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/noel-sheppard/2010/11/18/un-ipcc-official-admits-we-redistribute-worlds-wealth-climate

The U.N.'s Global Warming War On Capitalism: An Important ...

Jan 22, 2013 · Viewed from an even larger perspective, the global warming rubric has provided an ideal platform to accomplish exactly what Chavez has in mind…to enable the U.N. to advance large transformational...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

but WAIT ! There's MORE !

U.N. Official Reveals Real Reason Behind Warming Scare ...
https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/climate-change-scare-tool-to-destroy-capitalism/

Economic Systems: The alarmists keep telling us their concern about global warming is all about man's stewardship of the environment.But we know that's not true. A United Nations official has now ...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

News - Global warming: Fake News From the Start ...

https://www.heartland.org › news-opinion › news › global...

Dec 20, 2017 · President Trump must now end America’s participation in the fake science and fake news of manmade global warming. To do this, he must withdraw the U.S. from further involvement with all U.N. global warming programs, especially the IPCC, as well as the agency that now directs it – the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change.

[PDF]

More Than 1000 International Scientists Dissent Over Man ...

https://www.amherst.edu › media › view › 400467 › original › ...

the globe have now challenged man-made global warming claims made by the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) and former Vice President Al Gore. This new 2010 321-page Climate Depot Special Report -- updated from the 2007 groundbreaking U.S. Senate Report of over 400 scientists who voiced skepticism

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×