Survey Tuesday AFCN and beyond

[Vagitron]

2 hours ago, gumby73 said:

what's your thoughts on your OL after Munchak was released? and why the hell was he released? with Ben, I see 24 total sacks in 2018..Than, Ben counted for 2 sacks in 2019, but i see a increase to 32 sacks total in 2019..

Well the increase in sacks is because of Rudolph and duck under center and defenses pinning their ears back and going for broke. Munchak also wasn't released. He was going to resign with the steelers. The paperwork was drawn up but unsigned and according to Munchak and his nephew who posts on the steelers sub reddit when Denver called he signed with them because his daughter is in Colorado. He would otherwise still be on the steelers staff. The jury is still out on sarrett his replacement. It's not fair to judge him or the line for that matter with the massive inconsistency under center. Losing munch was a major blow no matter how you shake it tho. He's a legendary line coach. 

[Vagitron]

2 hours ago, Icecube said:

Hmmm, I think I see what Vag was talking about: You seem to make up stuff as you go. 

Upgraded nowhere? 

- Will begin the season with a Hall of Fame QB instead of an undrafted, 4th string rookie. No upgrade there. 

- Will have Conner and McFarland as upgrades to RB. Snell in 2nd year. (Incase you forgot, McFarland destroyed OSU's D while at MD). Now the Steelers have that guy.

 

- Will have JuJu and Claypool (6-6, 240, 4.42 speed) at WR. Johnson no longer a rookie, Washington came on strong with no QB last year. 

- Will have upgrade at LG, no matter who is the starter. 

- Upgrade at TE in Ebron. 

- Upgrade DE in Tuitt.

- Upgrade at ILB as Bush in his 2nd year, will be dominant. 

 Even if Ben goes down, Mason in 3rd year will be upgrade over the QBs of last year. If you want to "whistle past the graveyard," cool.

 

It's just how gip puts it down when he's talking to me. I don't know if this is how he talks when taking the steelers with everyone or just when he talks to me. I'm turning over a new leaf and going to do my best to be civil but gipper has made it pretty clear on now countless occasions he doesn't watch a lot of division football unless it's the Browns. The Steelers have a very good roster and a team culture the Browns nor the Bengals possess. Hell not even the Ravens are on that same page despite how the Ravens draft (thank Ozzie Newsome)

We shall see what happens. We may not even have a season this year but old gip dawg has been underselling the steelers for as long as I've been on this board which goes back to I think 2004-2006 on a different name. They won two super bowls and went to a third in that frame. I still have a dollar bill in my wallet my buddy bet me as I don't like to gamble that the steelers wouldn't make the playoffs when they won xl because he was convinced they couldn't win with that line. I get it, hating the steelers is in the Cleveland DNA. 

 

Edit: I expect very little from Claypool this season. Diontae Johnson outside of juju is the one to watch. Washington will be good too. Diontae Johnson has the ability to be antonio brown 2.0. He had the best separation rate in the league last year. 

[Dutch Oven]

Alright Vagitron... I'd like for you to breakdown the Browns offseason and what you like and dislike about their roster.

I'll be interested to see your POV on the Browns.

[Vagitron]

1 minute ago, Dutch Oven said:

Alright Vagitron... I'd like for you to breakdown the Browns offseason and what you like and dislike about their roster.

I'll be interested to see your POV on the Browns.

If I don't do it over the next couple days remind me with a dm or a bump in here. 

[Dutch Oven]

19 minutes ago, Vagitron said:

If I don't do it over the next couple days remind me with a dm or a bump in here. 

Yeah, no rush... take your time.

I have a feeling we'll have plenty of it.

[Vagitron]

10 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

Yeah, no rush... take your time.

I have a feeling we'll have plenty of it.

Ha, who knows. We closed our store voluntarily for almost three months. People have learned nothing from the first shelter in and now with this second emergence I think a lot of people are really going to pay for it. I go nowhere publicly without a mask unless I'm open air and can distance without issue. 

[Icecube]

3 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

It's kind of funny to consider how close John Harbaugh allegedly was to losing his job not all that long ago. 

Now the Ravens are considered the class of the AFC North.

I have to hand it to him. That team has been tough almost every year.  

[The Gipper]

2 hours ago, Vagitron said:

It's just how gip puts it down when he's talking to me.

Yes...I put down facts....you put down wishes and hopes. 

I don't know if this is how he talks when taking the steelers with everyone or just when he talks to me.

Everyone...trust me, you are no one I treat special.  (Most of the Spermsucker suckers don't come around...at least you do that. )

I'm turning over a new leaf and going to do my best to be civil but gipper has made it pretty clear on now countless occasions he doesn't watch a lot of division football unless it's the Browns.

What is clear that you don't even know your own team as well as I know your team at times.  

The Steelers have a very good roster

They may have a good roster...or what they have is an 8-8 i.e mediocre  roster when they do not have an HOF QB playing for them. 

and a team culture the Browns nor the Bengals possess.

Yes, they have had a team culture better than the Browns and Bengals....but you know what a good culture consists of?   A quality coach/asst. coaches...like Cowher/Tomlin/LeBeau/Munchak and a good QB.  Obviously things the Browns have not had.  But that may have changed. 

Hell not even the Ravens are on that same page despite how the Ravens draft (thank Ozzie Newsome)

What are you saying here?  IMO the Ravens have a better coach and maybe the better QB at this point. 

We shall see what happens. We may not even have a season this year but old gip dawg has been underselling the steelers for as long as I've been on this board which goes back to I think 2004-2006 on a different name.

No, I think I have only been "underselling them"  since Dick LeBeau left.  I never undersold that defense when he was there.  I had more faith in him than you did in fact. 

They won two super bowls and went to a third in that frame.

Not in the time frame I am talking about.  

I still have a dollar bill in my wallet my buddy bet me as I don't like to gamble that the steelers wouldn't make the playoffs when they won xl because he was convinced they couldn't win with that line. I get it, hating the steelers is in the Cleveland DNA. 

Actually, no, I don't think you get it at all.  We don't necessarily hate the Steelers.  We primarily hate how stupid their fans are....they are kind of the MAGA of the football world (except with more competency to root for) 

 

Edit: I expect very little from Claypool this season. Diontae Johnson outside of juju is the one to watch. Washington will be good too. Diontae Johnson has the ability to be antonio brown 2.0. He had the best separation rate in the league last year. 

You keep saying that...and it mean  absolutely nothing. Where is it that you come up with that so called statistical measurement?   I mean, what? Is he getting a divorce? 

 

[The Gipper]

2 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Alright Vagitron... I'd like for you to breakdown the Browns offseason and what you like and dislike about their roster.

I'll be interested to see your POV on the Browns.

Hell....I asked him to break down the Steelers roster a couple of days ago.  He apparently can't do that, what makes you think he can break down the Browns roster. 

[Dutch Oven]

7 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Hell....I asked him to break down the Steelers roster a couple of days ago.  He apparently can't do that, what makes you think he can break down the Browns roster. 

I asked nicely. 😁

[Dutch Oven]

7 hours ago, Icecube said:

I have to hand it to him. That team has been tough almost every year.  

I'm sorry, did I somehow give you an indication I suddenly care about your opinion? If I did, my sincerest apologies. 

[Icecube]

5 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

I'm sorry, did I somehow give you an indication I suddenly care about your opinion? If I did, my sincerest apologies. 

Oh, such a great contribution to content. Way to just add pollution to the board. Delusions of grandeur. What, no more Nazi grammar while misspelling words in the process? LMFAO. 

[Vagitron]

13 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Hell....I asked him to break down the Steelers roster a couple of days ago.  He apparently can't do that, what makes you think he can break down the Browns roster. 

Gipper investing a bunch of time responding to you isn't necessarily worth it to me because of the way you handle it. I'd take the time to breakdown the roster and you'd still tell me I'm wrong and you are right, no concessions will be made just "well no, this is what I think" and I don't believe many people here would disagree with that assessment. I want an actual conversation. I'm still going to be nice and handle things in a civil manner but when it comes to football I find you incorrigible. I'm happy we agree on things outside of football. 

The last line is a prime example. The ability for a receiver to separate from the dB is actually a measured stat and johnson leads the entire nfl. If you so choose go watch a basic highlight. Joe haden himself said he loves playing against him in practice because his release and route running is so unpredictable. His highlights look like young antonio brown. 

[Icecube]

45 minutes ago, Vagitron said:

Gipper investing a bunch of time responding to you isn't necessarily worth it to me because of the way you handle it. I'd take the time to breakdown the roster and you'd still tell me I'm wrong and you are right, no concessions will be made just "well no, this is what I think" and I don't believe many people here would disagree with that assessment. I want an actual conversation.

The last line is a prime example. The ability for a receiver to separate from the dB is actually a measured stat and johnson leads the entire nfl. If you so choose go watch a basic highlight. Joe haden himself said he loves playing against him in practice because his release and route running is so unpredictable. His highlights look like young antonio brown. 

The Steelers WRs/TEs are a concern to me. JuJu will be back to full force, Johnson is a young AB, Washington will emerge this year, Claypool is gonna be a stud and will contribute even as a rookie (just too much size and speed), Ebron combined with the oft-injured McDonald will be a handful. 

[Gorka]

4 hours ago, Icecube said:

The Steelers WRs/TEs are a concern to me. JuJu will be back to full force, Johnson is a young AB, Washington will emerge this year, Claypool is gonna be a stud and will contribute even as a rookie (just too much size and speed), Ebron combined with the oft-injured McDonald will be a handful. 

With no one to throw the ball to them. Ben's elbow is gonna give out. You watch.

[The Gipper]

7 hours ago, Vagitron said:

Gipper investing a bunch of time responding to you isn't necessarily worth it to me because of the way you handle it. I'd take the time to breakdown the roster and you'd still tell me I'm wrong and you are right, no concessions will be made just "well no, this is what I think" and I don't believe many people here would disagree with that assessment. I want an actual conversation. I'm still going to be nice and handle things in a civil manner but when it comes to football I find you incorrigible. I'm happy we agree on things outside of football. 

The last line is a prime example. The ability for a receiver to separate from the dB is actually a measured stat and johnson leads the entire nfl. If you so choose go watch a basic highlight. Joe haden himself said he loves playing against him in practice because his release and route running is so unpredictable. His highlights look like young antonio brown. 

All I am hearing on this post is that You are lazy and probably not capable of performing the task

[Vagitron]

2 hours ago, The Gipper said:

All I am hearing on this post is that You are lazy and probably not capable of performing the task

I have a 6 year old and own and run a business in the middle of a pandemic. You really aren't doing a great job at this being civil thing. I will do it when I feel like it and I haven't felt like it or had the time. I will never understand why you think you are some sort of football guru. You routinely get shit wrong when talking about teams other than the Browns. Give it a rest.

[Icecube]

5 hours ago, Gorka said:

With no one to throw the ball to them. Ben's elbow is gonna give out. You watch.

Very possible. If not the elbow, something else. 

[mjp28]

14 hours ago, Gorka said:

With no one to throw the ball to them. Ben's elbow is gonna give out. You watch.

Not just big Ben these guys are only having two preseason games following a chopped up schedule with limited exposure to their teammates.

I think you may see a few particularly older players pop a few rivets this year when they try to crank it up to 100% game speed.

Especially the older quarterbacks which there are a few notable ones still out there getting those last game checks in before retiring.

A lot of attention will go to the 2021 quarterback class this year.

[mjp28]

You wonder how much (if any) field time these guys will see this year once COVID-19 starts hitting the college ranks.  This is going to be a fall football season like no other ever was professional, college or high school.

2021 NFL Draft: Trevor Lawrence, Justin Fields highlight...

• Trevor Lawrence, Clemson. 6-6, 220 pounds. ...
• Justin Fields, Ohio State. 6-3, 223 pounds. ...
• Trey Lance, North Dakota State. 6-3, 221 pounds. ...
• Brock Purdy, Iowa State. 6-1, 210 pounds. ...
• Jamie Newman, Georgia. 6-4, 230 pounds. ...
• Tanner Morgan, Minnesota. 6-2, 215 pounds.

[Icecube]

22 hours ago, Vagitron said:

Gipper investing a bunch of time responding to you isn't necessarily worth it to me because of the way you handle it. I'd take the time to breakdown the roster and you'd still tell me I'm wrong and you are right, no concessions will be made just "well no, this is what I think" and I don't believe many people here would disagree with that assessment. I want an actual conversation. I'm still going to be nice and handle things in a civil manner but when it comes to football I find you incorrigible. I'm happy we agree on things outside of football. 

The last line is a prime example. The ability for a receiver to separate from the dB is actually a measured stat and johnson leads the entire nfl. If you so choose go watch a basic highlight. Joe haden himself said he loves playing against him in practice because his release and route running is so unpredictable. His highlights look like young antonio brown. 

Gip is a fine example of constantly "moving the goal posts." He will make an assertion that all Pgh did was downgrade all over and when it's brought to his attention that the claim wasn't true, he changes it to "I only meant in free agents." I guess the draft and players coming back from injury won't count some how. Never mind that. 

[The Gipper]

On 7/2/2020 at 11:03 AM, Icecube said:

Gip is a fine example of constantly "moving the goal posts." He will make an assertion that all Pgh did was downgrade all over and when it's brought to his attention that the claim wasn't true, he changes it to "I only meant in free agents." I guess the draft and players coming back from injury won't count some how. Never mind that. 

I didn’t say the Pittsburgh downgraded I said they didn’t upgrade anywhere except maybe tight end. By that I mean acquire talent not just get guys back from injuries that have been on the team for years or having young players develop better in their second or third year. They were already on the roster last year. Every team has young players that they expect to get better. I expect the Browns players to get better to a greater degree than young Steeler players. I expect Browns players that were injured last year to come back. But we have to face the reality that other players will get injured and lose time so that is a constant in the NFL. 

[Icecube]

40 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

I didn’t see the Pittsburgh downgraded I said they didn’t upgrade anywhere except maybe tight end. By that I mean acquire talent not just get guys back from injuries that have been on the team for years or having young players develop better in their second or third year. They were already on the roster last year. Every team has young players that they expect to get better. I expect the Browns players to get better to a greater degree than young Steeler players. I expect Browns players that were injured last year to come back. But we have to face the reality that other players will get injured and lose time so that is a constant in the NFL. 

I'm not going to argue. You know what you do. 

[Vagitron]

10 hours ago, The Gipper said:

I didn’t see the Pittsburgh downgraded I said they didn’t upgrade anywhere except maybe tight end. By that I mean acquire talent not just get guys back from injuries that have been on the team for years or having young players develop better in their second or third year. They were already on the roster last year. Every team has young players that they expect to get better. I expect the Browns players to get better to a greater degree than young Steeler players. I expect Browns players that were injured last year to come back. But we have to face the reality that other players will get injured and lose time so that is a constant in the NFL. 

Why on earth do you think the Browns players have a better chance of getting better? The reality is you change coaches more than Antonio Brown changes his hair. There is literally zero to suggest the Browns staff will have a better chance of player development no matter where the players were drafted. You expect these things to happen with the Browns but not with one of the most consistent teams in the NFL. It makes zero sense. 

[calfoxwc]

8 hours ago, Vagitron said:

Why on earth do you think the Browns players have a better chance of getting better? The reality is you change coaches more than Antonio Brown changes his hair. There is literally zero to suggest the Browns staff will have a better chance of player development no matter where the players were drafted. You expect these things to happen with the Browns but not with one of the most consistent teams in the NFL. It makes zero sense. 

We finally have a coaching staff that drafts *football players" and not just terrific athletes on paper.

Meanwhile, go suck another egg:

 

[The Gipper]

11 hours ago, Vagitron said:

Why on earth do you think the Browns players have a better chance of getting better? The reality is you change coaches more than Antonio Brown changes his hair. There is literally zero to suggest the Browns staff will have a better chance of player development no matter where the players were drafted. You expect these things to happen with the Browns but not with one of the most consistent teams in the NFL. It makes zero sense. 

I expect the Browns young players to get better because I believe they are more talented than those who were drafted by the Steelers. Simple as that. And yeah the reason they are more talented  is because the Browns have always been little higher draft station because they’ve had terrible coaches and managers. But now I hopeThat they have quality managers and quality coaches. They can’t do much worse than Freddy in the coaching box.

[Vagitron]

On 7/7/2020 at 10:41 AM, The Gipper said:

I expect the Browns young players to get better because I believe they are more talented than those who were drafted by the Steelers. Simple as that. And yeah the reason they are more talented  is because the Browns have always been little higher draft station because they’ve had terrible coaches and managers. But now I hopeThat they have quality managers and quality coaches. They can’t do much worse than Freddy in the coaching box.

Draft stock does not define talent. Tj Watt was drafted at 30. Antonio Brown was a 5th rounder and I could go probably 30 more just off the top of my head with the steelers and other teams. There is literally zero to indicate the Browns will have a better go at developing players than the steelers. Draft stock means zero if you don't properly evaluate. 

[Vagitron]

On 7/7/2020 at 7:44 AM, calfoxwc said:

We finally have a coaching staff that drafts *football players" and not just terrific athletes on paper.

Meanwhile, go suck another egg:

 

You

Are

An

Idiot 

(stay on the political board where you belong with the other Mongo mouth breathers)

[The Gipper]

49 minutes ago, Vagitron said:

Draft stock does not define talent. Tj Watt was drafted at 30. Antonio Brown was a 5th rounder and I could go probably 30 more just off the top of my head with the steelers and other teams. There is literally zero to indicate the Browns will have a better go at developing players than the steelers. Draft stock means zero if you don't properly evaluate. 

Right that’s what I said in the past they have not done a proper job evaluation     now a different sheriff is in town. 

[Dutch Oven]

28 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Right that’s what I said in the past they have not done a proper job evaluation     now a different sheriff is in town. 

You mean DePodesta and Berry? 

Seems like one has been a sheriff in town for years now, and the other is on his second tour of duty.