Browns players taking a knee

[The Gipper]

Interesting that  over the last 18 hours on this board that this is the ONLY thread to have any posts submitted.  

When did football take a back seat on this forum? 

[MLD Woody]

4 hours ago, Bob806 said:

What? 

Holy crap, I'm not taking sides. I merely pointed out an observation about politics & sports.

Also...what does TLDR mean?

Too Long; Didn't Read

 

Basically it's a way to put a summary at the end of a long post

Or a response to mock a long post

[MLD Woody]

"These players are disrespecting the flag! The NFL should force them to stand or fire them! They hate America!"

* Baker says he'll kneel *

"Well, uh, I'll just DVR it and skip the kneeling. Yeah. That'll show em"

 

[Unsympathetic]

33 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

But clearly those are concepts that you are opposed to. 

He's very much a fan of the "stay on the plantation" political concepts -- the notion that old conservative white people get to tell everyone else what they can do and when they can do it.  They're very uncomfortable getting slapped in the face with the reality that they don't have that power any more.

The reason current protests have such force and broad support is because the protests are against BOTH parties -- this is precisely the reason for Biden's "If you don't support me, you ain't black" comment at the end of his interview with Charlemagne a couple wks ago.. Biden also represents the group who thinks they control the narrative and actually think they can/should tell Black people when it's OK to speak. [Nobody has forgotten Biden was one of the major architects of the war on black people  - excuse me, drugs.]

It's why these protests are NOT just "one side" --- these protests represent a fracturing of the Democratic party coalition of civil rights/labor and money.

[The Gipper]

4 minutes ago, Unsympathetic said:

He's very much a fan of the "stay on the plantation" political concepts -- the notion that old conservative white people get to tell everyone else what they can do and when they can do it.  They're very uncomfortable getting slapped in the face with the reality that they don't have that power any more.

The reason current protests have such force and broad support is because the protests are against BOTH parties -- this is precisely the reason for Biden's "If you don't support me, you ain't black" comment at the end of his interview with Charlemagne a couple wks ago.. Biden also represents the group who thinks they control the narrative and actually think they can/should tell Black people when it's OK to speak. [Nobody has forgotten Biden was one of the major architects of the war on black people  - excuse me, drugs.]

It's why these protests are explicitly NOT just "one side" --- these protests represent a fracturing of the Democrat party coalition of civil rights/labor and money.

I think that is a fallacy....to this extent:   Do you really think that black people are going to look to the Republican party to represent their interests? I mean, seriously.    The thing that you seem to be proposing is for a third party to be formed to primarily represent minority concerns,  I see that possibility as simply causing this  country to become more fractious. 

[Unsympathetic]

7 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

I think that is a fallacy....to this extent:   Do you really think that black people are going to look to the Republican party to represent their interests? I mean, seriously.    The thing that you seem to be proposing is for a third party to be formed to primarily represent minority concerns,  I see that possibility as simply causing this  country to become more fractious. 

Not minority -- economic class.  Yes, including white people.  Until then, all groups that aren't represented can and should withhold their vote.. as has already begun to happen.

My working hypothesis is that the D party as currently constructed is millionaires whose sole purpose is to coopt and defenestrate all movements with any potential for substantive change.

[The Gipper]

Not minority -- economic class.  Yes, including white people.  Until then, all groups that aren't represented can and should withhold their vote.. as has already begun to happen.

Uh, uhm, seriously?  You are underrepresented....so withhold your vote?  That is wholly anti-thetical.   It is because the minority populace "withheld their vote" in 2016 and had no enthusiasm for Hillary Clinton that begat them Donald Trump.  How counterproductive was that? 

My working hypothesis is that the D party as currently constructed is millionaires whose sole purpose is to coopt and defenestrate all movements with any potential for substantive change.

Well, I think your hypothesis is about as valid as is alchemy. The Democratic Party nominated, and got elected an African-American President,  and they made  substantive change in a number of areas (particularly healthcare).  There was some  improvement in conditions for minorities made there, and the only reason more was not made was because Mitch McConnell vowed to block any efforts made by Obama to do anything.  

[TypicalBrowns50]

Baker essentially played the quarterback position on one knee last year, him starting the kneel a bit earlier this year is the only difference. That is gonna be one sore knee

[Vambo]

[DieHardBrownsFan]

That must be those MA libs from the Browns forum.

[MLD Woody]

We 100% need a third party. Something more in the middle. Hell, a republican party without the outdated social issues baggage would be a place to start. 

Other countries have more than two parties and they haven't descended into any worse chaos than us. 

I voted 3rd party in 2016 for that exact reason. I didn't want to pick either the Giant Douche or the Turd Sandwich

[Unsympathetic]

3 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

It is because the minority populace "withheld their vote" in 2016 and had no enthusiasm for Hillary Clinton that begat them Donald Trump.  How counterproductive was that?

To them, it wasn't counterproductive at all..  And that's the point.  Clinton made it clear she would give them nothing - and so they gave her nothing. 

I seriously don't understand what point you're trying to make here.. they didn't see a difference between the two.

3 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

The Democratic Party nominated, and got elected an African-American President, and they made substantive change in a number of areas (particularly healthcare)

.. Substantive as defined by what?  Two wars to seven?  Please note that this is the entirety of the rationale.. the perspective of the person doing the defining of substantive for themselves is the key.

Anyone looking at the 08 and the most recent bailouts is aware that infinite cash is available... and yet the same person then looks at their own surroundings and sees that all trips to the hospital still result in them getting bankrupted.. and concludes that any "change" during the [token] black president accomplished diddly squat in their day to day life.

 

I really don't know how or why you actually believe O made substantive change..  that's not what people currently in the streets actually believe..

[Ibleedbrown]

48 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

"These players are disrespecting the flag! The NFL should force them to stand or fire them! They hate America!"

* Baker says he'll kneel *

"Well, uh, I'll just DVR it and skip the kneeling. Yeah. That'll show em"

 

And root beer. Can’t forget root beer. It’s always a good time to show how minimally concerned you are with other people’s problems by highlighting your own first world problems, like availability of root beer.

You down with OPP? No man, root beer...

[Unsympathetic]

Just now, Ibleedbrown said:

You down with OPP? No man, root beer...

Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help, help, I'm being repressed!

[The Gipper]

3 hours ago, Unsympathetic said:

To them, it wasn't counterproductive at all..  And that's the point.  Clinton made it clear she would give them nothing - and so they gave her nothing. 

I seriously don't understand what point you're trying to make here.. they didn't see a difference between the two.

The point is that there is a VAST difference between the two when it comes to  how minority rights are treated. If you cannot see that, I don't know what century you are living in.  

.. Substantive as defined by what?  Two wars to seven?  Please note that this is the entirety of the rationale.. the perspective of the person doing the defining of substantive for themselves is the key.

Anyone looking at the 08 and the most recent bailouts is aware that infinite cash is available... and yet the same person then looks at their own surroundings and sees that all trips to the hospital still result in them getting bankrupted.. and concludes that any "change" during the [token] black president accomplished diddly squat in their day to day life.

 

I really don't know how or why you actually believe O made substantive change..  that's not what people currently in the streets actually believe..

OK, sure,  while you or others may think that Obama did  no go overwhelmingly radically left,  and apparently you hold that against him.....He did accomplish far far more, or at least gave a far, far better effort at accomplishing "liberal" goals than any Republican ever would have attempted..or accomplished.   If you don't think so, ask some of the right wing fringers around here who claim that he went way way left.  They are as wrong as you are.  Obama was at heart a centrist, and tried to accomplish things from the center.   The far fringe right wingers hated him for being president while being black, and the far left fringers didn't like that he didn't go as far left as perhaps they expected him to go.  What that means is that we had a President that governed from the center....or perhaps slightly left of center.  Which to me is appropriate. 

But, I hope you are happy that you have a far right wing fringer occupying the highest position in the land....and that you are happy with his accomplishments (or lack thereof).  Somehow I do not think that is how you roll.

So...why don't you tell us what YOU expected of him that he did not accomplish, or did not attempt to accomplish. 

 

[calfoxwc]

6 hours ago, Ibleedbrown said:

Calf, it only alienates you if you choose to be alienated by it. OR, you can do like Baker and others have done and take a step or 2 to acknowledge the problem, and then you can use that brain of yours to be part of an amicable solution. 

Or you could worry about root beer. Really? Fucking root beer? 

   Not really true - I stand by my principles - respecting our Country is one of them. There is no reason to disrespect the Anthem/Flag just to get attention for a just cause, than there is to burn down businesses/rob businesses, beat up/murder even BLACK policemen, and slur ALL policemen out there.

  I didn't say it's illegal, all I said was, it is disrespect to our country, and alienating other folks they allegedly want to get on board....I don't appreciate it, and I care about the issue, but it doesn't make me care one bit more.

   It has done NOTHING to help solve the problem. Therefore, it is not a solution, nor a lead in to discussions about a solution. I choose to stand by my principles, therefore kneeling is disrespect to attention, and I don't care to condone it.

[calfoxwc]

4 hours ago, Ibleedbrown said:

And root beer. Can’t forget root beer. It’s always a good time to show how minimally concerned you are with other people’s problems by highlighting your own first world problems, like availability of root beer.

You down with OPP? No man, root beer...

liberals have NO sense of legit humor.

[FairHooker11]

4 hours ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

That must be those MA libs from the Browns forum.

😁  YES- baconhound and unsympathetic

your ok in my book DH

[The Gipper]

30 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

   Not really true - I stand by my principles - respecting our Country is one of them. There is no reason to disrespect the Anthem/Flag just to get attention for a just cause, than there is to burn down businesses/rob businesses, beat up/murder even BLACK policemen, and slur ALL policemen out there.

  I didn't say it's illegal, all I said was, it is disrespect to our country, and alienating other folks they allegedly want to get on board....I don't appreciate it, and I care about the issue, but it doesn't make me care one bit more.

   It has done NOTHING to help solve the problem. Therefore, it is not a solution, nor a lead in to discussions about a solution. I choose to stand by my principles, therefore kneeling is disrespect to attention, and I don't care to condone it.

The bold statement seems to infer that there is something than can be done to solve the problem...so what are these solutions that you have in your back pocket.

Remember when the NFL got involved with the ALS Foundation (or some such group)....and had everyone taking the "ALS Challenge"  by dumping a bucket of ice water over themselves in order to  "Create Awareness"  of the situation?

As I see it, the kneeling was simply the same thing.....a gesture to create awareness of the problem of police brutality.  The problem of course is that people misappropriated the gesture for their own personal reasons, wanting to to make something out of it that it was not.   What kind of gesture could they have employed, if not the kneeling to create awareness?  Dump ice over themselves during the anthem?  Give the Black Power salute, like the guys at the 1968 Olympics?  Or something else that would have been effective. 

AWARENESS.

Also:  , riddle me this:  When I was young I was an altar boy,  and except for when I had to get up and do some duty around the altar, I had to kneel at the altar.   My conclusion then, based on how people interpreted the kneeling by these players, must be that when I had to kneel then,  that I was disrespecting God.   It was after all the same gesture.  (except I had to get down on both knees).   

Contrarily....some could say I was being respectful and reverent of God by kneeling.   Perhaps Kaepernick et al were in fact being respectful and reverent toward the anthem and the flag when they chose to kneel.   And I think there is some legitimacy to that.  Kneeling during the anthem can mean that you are showing reverence and respect to what the flag/anthem stand for:    Liberty, Justice, Freedom.    I would bow, or kneel to those concepts. 

[The Gipper]

23 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

liberals have NO sense of legit humor.

What do you mean Cal?   You give us all kinds of opportunities to make fun of you.  

Or, take this example:   Three guys walk into a Synagogue during a Saturday Shabatt ceremony.    One is dressed in Ku Klux Klan garb carrying a Confederate Flag,  another is dressed in Nazi garb carrying a Swastika;  another is dressed black garb and hiding his face and carrying an Isis flag. It seems that they are there to stir up trouble.   How are they greeted? 

With a plate of lox, bagels, onions and cream cheese. 

[Westside Steve]

34 minutes ago, FairHooker11 said:

😁  YES- baconhound and unsympathetic

your ok in my book DH

Baconhound is a pretty smart guy. Don't know where care much about unsympathetic.

WSS

[Ibleedbrown]

30 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

   Not really true - I stand by my principles - respecting our Country is one of them. There is no reason to disrespect the Anthem/Flag just to get attention for a just cause, than there is to burn down businesses/rob businesses, beat up/murder even BLACK policemen, and slur ALL policemen out there.

  I didn't say it's illegal, all I said was, it is disrespect to our country, and alienating other folks they allegedly want to get on board....I don't appreciate it, and I care about the issue, but it doesn't make me care one bit more.

   It has done NOTHING to help solve the problem. Therefore, it is not a solution, nor a lead in to discussions about a solution. I choose to stand by my principles, therefore kneeling is disrespect to attention, and I don't care to condone it.

That’s the thing about respect, it’s a 2 way street. There’s a rather large segment of our population who aren’t feeling it, and they’re making it known. I can’t claim l know what it’s like to be black in America. You can’t either. But l can listen. I can try to comprehend, and at the end of the day l want to bring us all into the fold.

So what can WE do to enable people of color to feel the same way about America that we do? That is the question. That is the goal. 

Protests, riots, kneeling at a football game? Those aren’t solutions. Those are just a bright blinking SOS. We’re mentally moving past that now into solution phase, and l’m happy to hear you speaking about solutions too. 

Solutions start with understanding the mindset of the opposition, or at least an attempt to do so. Where are they coming from? Why do they feel this way? What do they hope to accomplish? 

Embroil yourself in that shit. Hopefully at the end you’ll see it’s not “they”, but rather a part of “us”. Then we can move forward.

 

[Ibleedbrown]

44 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

liberals have NO sense of legit humor.

Some jokes are “haha” funny and some are meant to be a scathing attack against someone who just said something awful. The butts don’t usually get the humor in the latter.

[Dutch Oven]

Cal saying he has principles.... 🤣

[Kvoethe]

In response to title....I hope he kneels every week up 24 with 1:30 on the clock and the opponent has no time outs.

[JPPT1974]

Well the left media says he represents their "morals" there!

[Unsympathetic]

3 hours ago, The Gipper said:

He did accomplish far far more, or at least gave a far, far better effort at accomplishing "liberal" goals

Obama described himself on multiple occasions as a Reagan republican.. That's not liberal in any way shape or form.  And when you consider the reality that his health plan was the Heritage foundation plan [yes, the same thing as Romney].. you realize that calling him "liberal" is simply changing a definition of liberal to shoehorn O's actions into it -- by moving the overton window of definition of liberal so far to the right that you've fallen off the map.

Obama initiated the caging and deportation of kids back to latin america -- that's objective reality. Deportation defendant lawyers brought it up to him and O said nobody would notice.  Obama didn't end the wars, he expanded them. 

If you go listen to clips of Obama campaigning in 2008, his words were EXACTLY the kind of actual policies that I'd put in place.... but Obama simply identified the right words and then turned around and when in office, stabbed everyone in the back.

Key to the present day/week: Obama initiated and cranked to 11 the militarization of the police.. that's in no way liberal.

3 hours ago, The Gipper said:

I hope you are happy that you have a far right wing fringer occupying the highest position in the land

He doesn't represent my values or policies. HRC continues not to represent my values or policies.  [As well, DT isn't fringe or far anything.. he's the precise mainstream of the Republican party and base.  There is no such "never-T" -- R's vote with DT more than Joe Manchin votes D.]

Furthermore -- I'm glad you've identified my actions as so important that the highest position in the land depends on me.  If that's actually true, then I fully expect the Democratic party to do something they haven't done in 50 years -- commit to and execute on progressive policy positions so that people like me will come out and vote for them. Yep: shame attempts don't work -- because there's no policy commitment behind that tone.  Tone-police as much as you want, I don't care until it's an executed policy. 

I'm happy to be a target --- but ONLY if/when policy commitments are the result.  If D's choose not to - fine! Keep losing, that blame is on them for not putting up a candidate I support.. not me.  D's have lost over 1000 state and federal seats since Obama took office.. because this opening of eyes is across the nation.

And when the Democratic millionaires don't do anything.. are they deliberately trying not to win, like the Washington Generals?  [yes, the white team from DC always losing to the black Globetrotters.. unpack the fun]  Or.. is "attempted shaming" merely the only option the D party has left because they don't agree with anything progressive but they feel entitled to the votes based on actions from over 50 years ago?

 

As I said above.. the sole purpose of the Democratic millionaires in 2020 is simply to sheepdog/lie to everyone actually interested in improving the lives of people of all economic classes and get them to accept the true millionaire goal of accomplishing nothing.

[calfoxwc]

1 hour ago, Ibleedbrown said:

That’s the thing about respect, it’s a 2 way street. There’s a rather large segment of our population who aren’t feeling it, and they’re making it known. I can’t claim l know what it’s like to be black in America. You can’t either. But l can listen. I can try to comprehend, and at the end of the day l want to bring us all into the fold.

So what can WE do to enable people of color to feel the same way about America that we do? That is the question. That is the goal. 

Protests, riots, kneeling at a football game? Those aren’t solutions. Those are just a bright blinking SOS. We’re mentally moving past that now into solution phase, and l’m happy to hear you speaking about solutions too. 

Solutions start with understanding the mindset of the opposition, or at least an attempt to do so. Where are they coming from? Why do they feel this way? What do they hope to accomplish? 

Embroil yourself in that shit. Hopefully at the end you’ll see it’s not “they”, but rather a part of “us”. Then we can move forward.

 

True - to a point. The trouble is, many of us DO respect the black community - why alienate those who DO respect our Anthem/Flag? We are ALREADY in the fold. The players who make millions of dollars - why alienate those Americans who they want to bring into the fold? Why don't THEY try to understand where THEY are coming from? Why do THEY feel that way? reaching out only works when both sides reach out. And disrespecting America - I don't buy it. Never going to.  I won't pay attention to that. It hinders compassion for their very legit cause.

[calfoxwc]

9 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

It's easy to ignore, I can just set the DVR to 5 minutes after the game starts, or fast forward it ... whatever. My biggest concern is if they quit making Frostie or Barq's rootbeer this fall because of the corona virus.

 

1 hour ago, Ibleedbrown said:

Some jokes are “haha” funny and some are meant to be a scathing attack against someone who just said something awful. The butts don’t usually get the humor in the latter.

Reread what I posted. Rootbeer is more important to me than watching concerned about racism athletes kneel and disrespect our country. America isn't perfect, neither are any of us. So, it's ok to disrespect each side because we're imperfect?

Why would you think I said something awful? I think you misread what I said.

[Ibleedbrown]

20 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

 

Reread what I posted. Rootbeer is more important to me than watching concerned about racism athletes kneel and disrespect our country. America isn't perfect, neither are any of us. So, it's ok to disrespect each side because we're imperfect?

Why would you think I said something awful? I think you misread what I said.

You’re tip toeing there. I like that. 

The kneeling thing. Yeah, it’s drawing attention to a life or death reality for some folks. That’s a far cry from availability of root beer. And yes, l threw well deserved shade at you for that comment. Realizing why you deserved such shade is step 1 in your evolution. 

None of this is rocket science. Just a simple acknowledgement that your American reality is wholly different than some of your countrymen. The fact that well paid athletes are coming out about this should tell you that it’s not all about money.