LeBrent Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 The Red Sox are reportedly going hard for Victor Martinez, but are going to have to give up Clay Buchholz in the process. READ MORE: MLB, Boston Red Sox, Cleveland Indians, Victor Martinez, Clay Buchholz submitted by 100%InjuryRate more posts by author 80 Read Article: (www.projo.com) The Boston Red Sox are still talking about getting Roy Halladay, but as has been the case with everyone else, the price remains way too high. As a result, the Red Sox are focusing on Indians All-Star Victor Martinez. Martinez would be a huge offensive help for the Red Sox. The only issue is that the Red Sox will have to give up quite a bit to get Martinez. The Indians are insisting that they get Clay Buchholz in the trade. Buchholz you may remember threw a no-hitter for the Sox before getting knocked around a bit in the bigs and getting demoted. But he's still a very hot prospect. The Sox initially balked at giving up Buchholz, but it's looking more and more like they'll give him up to get Martinez. LINK This is good news, our main bargaining chip in this process is that we have Victor under contract next year, though we would like to get some good young pitching in return for him this year and open up more time for others, we can easily hold on to him for next year. Hopefully we are more patient with him than with Lee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIMO. Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 According to ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney, the expectation of rival GMs is that the Indians will trade Victor Martinez before Friday's deadline, but sources indicate that the Indians are telling other teams that they are not intent on dumping the veteran catcher, and that they will need to solid return to move him. That's because Martinez still fits on the Indians next year, the Indians are saying, in a similar role he's played this year -- catching the majority of the time while getting some time at first base as well. It would be an ideal way to transition Lou Marson, the catcher they got from the Phillies, to the major league level next year. The Red Sox remain the team in the best position to make a possible deal for Martinez, according to Olney, but rival executives say that Boston has been active on multiple fronts -- at a time when the Red Sox have multiple concerns, from a struggling lineup to a weakened rotation to a bullpen that has been inconsistent of late. ------------------------------------- "Lou Marson? The future backup isn't the motivating factor here; how can we forget the Indians already added Carlos Santana in last season's swap that made Casey Blake a Dodger? No, the reason the Tribe can and should hold out for good stuff for V-Mart is because he's worth it, a catcher with a .294 Equivalent Average who should yield up a pitching prospect as good as if not better than Carlos Carrasco from the Lee deal. If the Red Sox don't yield that up, there's nothing that doesn't say the Indians hold onto their quality slugger to keep splitting his time between the plate and first base, and then play for better stakes at the Winter Meetings." http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/features/rumors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselPusher Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Thursday, July 30, 2009 Red Sox working on three-way deal By Jayson Stark ESPN.com The Boston Red Sox and the Cleveland Indians were discussing a three-way trade Thursday night that would send Victor Martinez to Boston, Clay Buchholz to Cleveland and prospects flying in all directions, according to clubs that spoke to both teams. The Red Sox also would attempt to move recently acquired Adam LaRoche, either to a third team or in a companion deal, to make room for Martinez in their lineup, one source said. The Red Sox have spent several days working on parallel deals with Toronto for Roy Halladay, San Diego for Adrian Gonzalez and Cleveland for Martinez. There were indications Thursday afternoon that they were making no headway with Toronto and San Diego, but that they were having trouble making the pieces fit with Cleveland. They began contacting other teams to help make the deal fit and are believed to still be searching for a third team. One potential reason for involving a third club was the need to find a destination for LaRoche, who would seem to be crowded out by the acquisition of another bat for the Boston lineup. But with very few contending teams searching for a first baseman, finding a taker for LaRoche could be a challenge. In the meantime, the Red Sox don't appear to be the only team talking to the Indians about Martinez. There were also indications Thursday that Cleveland was still having conversations with Tampa Bay. The Indians were heavily scouting the Rays' system and had multiple scouts watching their triple-A Durham team. However, the Rays don't seem to have the financial flexibility to absorb the approximately $2 million left on Martinez's contract this year without subtracting a player such as Scott Kazmir at the same time. One source familiar with the Rays' thinking admitted the team was still a long shot to pull off two deals that big. Jayson Stark is a senior baseball writer for ESPN.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalBrownsFan Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Shapiro doesn't have the balls to hold out for a good deal for VMart, he will cave and we will get crappy low end minor leaguers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBrent Posted July 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 ESPN says talks with the Sox heating up. Bucholtz likely involved but hopefully at least one more Grade A pitching prospect as they are loaded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBrent Posted July 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 LINK Says we didn't get Bard or Bucholtz. Unbelievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBrent Posted July 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 LINK This one says it was for Masterson, Hagadone, and maybe more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AdaM Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 LINK Says we didn't get Bard or Bucholtz. Unbelievable. Anyone wanna help me write the script for Major League 5 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beanpot Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Yeah, Nightengale reports that it's done: http://twitter.com/BNightengale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBrent Posted July 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Espn says it's for Masterson, Hagadone, and one more prospect. Anyone know much about these two players? Hagadone is Baseball America's #3 Boston Prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBrent Posted July 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Brian Price is reportedly the third prospect. LINK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIMO. Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 I like Masterson, never heard of the other two. Can't believe Vic's really gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalBrownsFan Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 It looks like Shapiro is caving in again, not getting enough for VMart, I see a trend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectrum Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Hagadone had TJ last year. He's back, looks good. Big, hard throwing lefty. Price throws gas as well, bullpen guy at Rice, converted to a starter. While Masterson is the only one MLB ready, these two have the ability to fly through the minors. It's also not clear just yet that it's only these 3, w/o cash or another throw in, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIMO. Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 A few things to keep in mind before we start crying in our beers....here's Castro According to the Boston Herald, the Red Sox rejected a one-for-one proposal of Victor Martinez for Clay Buchholz last week, which is not terribly surprising, and not just because Buchholz is so highly regarded. I hate to burst the bubble of anyone hoping that a trade involving V-Mart will bring in another promising haul of prospects and somehow sweeten the Cliff Lee situation and the club's earnest efforts to reload for 2011. But there are a few things to keep in mind about Martinez: * He turns 31 this offseason and has an injury history. * He's never been highly regarded for his skills behind the plate in controlling the running game. * Yes, he can be moved to first base, but his offensive numbers as a catcher are much more valuable than his offensive numbers as a first baseman. * And regarding those offensive numbers, the guy has hit .193 since May 22 and .149 since June 20. * Last but certainly not least, Martinez will make $7.6 million next season if he's traded (I had listed it at $7.5 million yesterday but forgot that Martinez earned an additional $100,000 for his All-Star selection). That's a significant amount of money for a team to be taking on for his services, especially in this economic climate. The Lee deal -- or at least the Lou Marson portion of it -- makes a heck of a lot more sense if Martinez is moved. But the Indians have basically made it clear to the rest of the league that they are slashing payroll for 2010, and that would be the prime motivation for moving Martinez. The returns for him won't be anywhere near what they were for Lee, and the returns for Lee have already drawn scrutiny in the industry. http://castrovince.mlblogs.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
why cant we win Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 this is getting rediculous i cant belive we are trading victor who are we going to have next year to come and see besides sizemore if he dont get traded in the off season which at this rate i wouldnt put it past the front office this is just stupid and i dont plan on going to a game next year either now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cambridgeho Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Martinez is now a Red Sox catcher. We might as well get rid of Grady. How can anyone be happy with this shit. It will be at least 4 years till we have a winning record again. This pisses me off so bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 A few things to keep in mind before we start crying in our beers....here's Castro http://castrovince.mlblogs.com/ CIMO, I do happen to agree, at least more then the Lee trade, this make more sense. He is not going to play catcher because of his defense. And usually you want power out of your corners. Victor is a gap hitter, usually with that you need some sort of speed, which Victor does not have. He's slow as shit. The only issue I have is him coming and raking off our shitty pitching for the next 3 years. But oh well good luck Victor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIMO. Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Martinez is now a Red Sox catcher. We might as well get rid of Grady. How can anyone be happy with this shit. It will be at least 4 years till we have a winning record again. This pisses me off so bad. Just one thing since I don't want to re-do my whole deal from yesterday. We weren't going to re-sign him. We weren't going to win this year certainly. We probably weren't going to win next year. The key to the roster AS IT WAS, with Cliff and Victor, was getting guys like LaPorta and Rondon and Santana up in Cleveland. Obviously we weren't going to re-sign these guys because Cliff will get too much money and Victor is old, banged up, and we have elite prospects at his position(...s. C and 1B). The plan is to make 2011 as good as possible, and the window of contention as long as possible, where we have great young players all coming up at the same time. Basically, we were going to have to wait to win anyway. We weren't going to have Cliff or Victor past 2010. Might as well get what we could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Just one thing since I don't want to re-do my whole deal from yesterday. We weren't going to re-sign him. We weren't going to win this year certainly. We probably weren't going to win next year. The key to the roster AS IT WAS, with Cliff and Victor, was getting guys like LaPorta and Rondon and Santana up in Cleveland. Obviously we weren't going to re-sign these guys because Cliff will get too much money and Victor is old, banged up, and we have elite prospects at his position(...s. C and 1B). The plan is to make 2011 as good as possible, and the window of contention as long as possible, where we have great young players all coming up at the same time. Basically, we were going to have to wait to win anyway. We weren't going to have Cliff or Victor past 2010. Might as well get what we could. I am starting to come around. I do agree with you on Victor, just not about Lee. I think we are just pissed because we were so close in 07 and and this year with the Cavs and smelt blood. Dude Cleveland needs a title, it's like the whole city hasn't f'cked in 35 years and are horny as shit. I say we go an sign Sal Fasano for fun. p.s. CIMO you need to change your Avitar to Tony Sipp. -signed Blue Balls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectrum Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 this is getting rediculous i cant belive we are trading victor who are we going to have next year to come and see besides sizemore if he dont get traded in the off season which at this rate i wouldnt put it past the front office this is just stupid and i dont plan on going to a game next year either now Again, 31yr old catcher. While he's shown solid control of the pitching staff behind the plate and he manages the game well, his defense is nowhere near his offense. And as he ages, it will not only get worse, but take a serious toll on his offense. Couldn't even trade Sizemore for acceptable value now so you don't have to worry. If Victor moved to 1B full time, he would be a solid AL 1B. Defensively he can play the position, but now you're looking at a team that has well below average power numbers at every IF position and probably one corner OF. And people can get upset about why Victor didn't land Bucholz, Bard, Bowden. but that's pretty unrealistic. Lee and Martinez MIGHT have pulled that off. Shapiro and his staff have been good to great at evaluating talent, and bringing in hauls of prospects via trade that have greatly improved the team. They just have not drafted very well. Too conservative in my opinion. But I never have, nor will I ever say a nice thing about Wedge. Since day 1, I wasn't a believer. That said, finding a GM that is as efficient and effective as Shapiro is damn near impossible. One of the best GMs in baseball, again, in my opinion. Let's not act like because some talking heads on the TV yap about what should or could have been, the minute a trade is completed, that the Indians got hosed. If an organization has a unique way of evaluating players, which points them in a different direction than what Baseball America or the MLB network says, this can be a huge advantage. You're able to land more players that you value higher than the usual generic top 10 rankings of some website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIMO. Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 I am starting to come around. I do agree with you on Victor, just not about Lee. I think we are just pissed because we were so close in 07 and and this year with the Cavs and smelt blood. Dude Cleveland needs a title, it's like the whole city hasn't f'cked in 35 years and are horny as shit. I say we go an sign Sal Fasano for fun. p.s. CIMO you need to change your Avitar to Tony Sipp. -signed Blue Balls Yep, we got into it yesterday but I see your points, too. For me it's just a matter of....even if we made some dumb moves in past...there's nothing we can do about it now. You see years of getting rid of star players, I see no chance of winning in '09 and a very unlikely chance of winning in '10....and we weren't going to re-sign these guys past then so you have to make sure 2011 and beyond is as good as possible. I'm actually pretty much the opposite in terms of Lee/Vic.....basically just because I liked Vic a hell of a lot more than Lee. Lee's really only had 2 and half years of all-star performance, and I still can't get over how different '07 could've been with the 2008 Lee. I know he wasn't trying to pitch as bad as he did...but still. Vic's been our man for years, it's a punch to the gut to see him leave and I'm probably going to get teary eyed when I see his press conference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beanpot Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 I say we go an sign Sal Fasano for fun. That's so awesome, you've won the Internets! Beanpot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beanpot Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 I liked Vic a hell of a lot more than Lee. You and me both. This trade was a kick in the gut. Even more so after reading about him in tears at his locker. Wish him mad success in Boston. Beanpot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Yep, we got into it yesterday but I see your points, too. For me it's just a matter of....even if we made some dumb moves in past...there's nothing we can do about it now. You see years of getting rid of star players, I see no chance of winning in '09 and a very unlikely chance of winning in '10....and we weren't going to re-sign these guys past then so you have to make sure 2011 and beyond is as good as possible. I'm actually pretty much the opposite in terms of Lee/Vic.....basically just because I liked Vic a hell of a lot more than Lee. Lee's really only had 2 and half years of all-star performance, and I still can't get over how different '07 could've been with the 2008 Lee. I know he wasn't trying to pitch as bad as he did...but still. Vic's been our man for years, it's a punch to the gut to see him leave and I'm probably going to get teary eyed when I see his press conference. You know, it's all good, CIMO, you know your shit, bro, even if you live in Texas you hillbilly, jk. We have a common place for our team here and fights are going to happen. In a Steelers chat room they are taking about meeting each other downtown for a blow. Here, we are passionate, which is why the lowly Browns have sold out for 10 years straight with shit ass teams. I like a lot of players but Lee was a CY Young period. The ONLY reason we did as well at the end of last season as we did was Lee (well not including Garko, who I think had 35 RBI's in 40 games). It's almost like losing a family, but not one family member at a time, it's the whole family in a car wreak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playerjdd Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 after this season i am turning in my indians fan card, i cant take us selling our team down the river. I knew i didnt like Shapiro the minute he took over. That idiot needs to be fired he has run our team into the ground from the time he took over until now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalBrownsFan Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 Here is the new t-shirt they are going to be selling at Tribe games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 Bottom line for me is the tribe wasn't going to go anywhere with the make up of that team. We just picked up 11 top prospects. In the big picture, this was a good move. If half of these guys come close to their projected value, we will be solid for years to come. You have to think the big picture. I like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 Bottom line for me is the tribe wasn't going to go anywhere with the make up of that team. We just picked up 11 top prospects. In the big picture, this was a good move. If half of these guys come close to their projected value, we will be solid for years to come. You have to think the big picture. I like it. It's sort of the chicken or the egg. I agree somewhat, but the real big picture is the Dolan's are not spending money no matter how many fans there were in the seat. We backed a Dolan run team for what, 13 years with 2 playoff seasons. Which 3 million+ were in attendance for many years and made them a bunch of money. Small market team my ass (now they are but they didn't use to be). It was a good move trading Victor, but it shouldn't be the question of "we weren't going to sign him anyway, let's start over". They should spend the money we gave them on players, Victor or not. Lee is a prime example. It's his fault he didn't put money away to sign players. I just can't get behind that type of Economics. If the Dolan's sign some real talent, I'll get my ticket pack back. I love the Indians like a family but sorry I have thought about it, I am done. I am NOT giving them my money anymore. Watch I am going to eat crow here, watch the tribe win 20 in a row. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 after this season i am turning in my indians fan card, i cant take us selling our team down the river. I knew i didnt like Shapiro the minute he took over. That idiot needs to be fired he has run our team into the ground from the time he took over until now. Victor was a good trade. But like I said, it's not about trading these players, it's the fact they are going to sign ANYONE after trading these players. Wait sorry they will go out and sign a Jason Michaels or Ronnie Belliard. Never mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.