NFL / Covid Updates

[D Bone]

33 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

I keep hearing that, but no one ever gives any stats.

Why is that?

Because it's hard to get being in the future and all I suppose... hard to get like the correct number of people who have actually had this virus and either didn't even know it or were sick for a short period of time, and either way they never got tested to be included in the stats, making this virus far less deadly than is being reported by our trusted media and politicians.... maybe more contagious, I'll give you that, but far less deadly.  

 

 

[Tour2ma]

2 hours ago, PoeticG said:

That link itself says it's basically guesswork and mathematical models and they don't really know... and despite that the numbers are the exact same as last year and not nearly as high as 2014 when we didn't hear any of this fear mongering about the flu. 

And I wouldn't doubt that "covid" is being counted among those totals... so again, where is the common flu? That's right, it's Covid. 

No... it's not. Covid-19 was not prevalent during this past flu season. Plus you may not realize it, but there is a test for the common seasonal flu. And it has the advantage of being proven, available and everything.

CDC estimates are not "guesswork". They are based upon statistical modelling refined over decades of data collection.

Yes... the hospitalizations this year are the same as last. So what? Did you bother to look at the estimated number of cases for the 2019-20 season? Calculate the lethality? It was 0.10%.

The most lethal flu season in the past decade was 2014-15 with a 0.17% lethality. (It was in the data I originally posted.

Covid? Based on confirmed cases it's >5%. Sure this is higher than the actual number, but with such shitty testing in the world leader in cases and deaths... us... we may never know the real number. Best estimates are it's between 1% and 2%... or basically about 10x the lethality of the "flu".

 

Here's a gift for you...

Do not dismiss out of hand...

... what it is you do not understand.

Instead endeavor to get a clue...

... sorry Po, this ain't the flu.

[Tour2ma]

4 minutes ago, D Bone said:

Because it's hard to get being in the future and all I suppose... hard to get like the correct number of people who have actually had this virus and either didn't even know it or were sick for a short period of time, and either way they never got tested to be included in the stats, making this virus far less deadly than is being reported by our trusted media and politicians.... maybe more contagious, I'll give you that, but far less deadly.

C'mon, DB... It's not as if we've never had a recession before.

So where are the numbers?

[D Bone]

3 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

C'mon, DB... It's not as if we've never had a recession before.

So where are the numbers?

Just a quick look on Dr Google found...... https://www.minnpost.com/second-opinion/2011/04/suicide-rates-rise-and-fall-economy-say-cdc-researchers/

[Tour2ma]

17 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Also a funny little curiosity, I can't help but notice those with out an original opinion re: football - I.e. those who over generalize so greatly that their posts are poorly constructed, miss the mark, inaccurate, little of any attention to detail....       Are some of the same people taking a similar stance re: this CoViD crisis.

It's almost as if critical thinking, experience, willingness to be open to information and making level headed decisions are thrown almost completely out of the window regardless of topic.

 

[Tour2ma]

On 5/7/2020 at 9:43 AM, nickers said:

🖕🖕

[Barry]

34 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Also a funny little curiosity, I can't help but notice those with out an original opinion re: football - I.e. those who over generalize so greatly that their posts are poorly constructed, miss the mark, inaccurate, little of any attention to detail....       Are some of the same people taking a similar stance re: this CoViD crisis.

It's almost as if critical thinking, experience, willingness to be open to information and making level headed decisions are thrown almost completely out of the window regardless of topic.

You have touched on an excellent point which a good friend of mine, who is a psychologist, has written about. The topic is how science deniers fail to appreciate detail, or complexities, in argument. They think in broad concepts, black and white. Exactly what you refer to. This is far from talking about football, but then again this topic is also. For those interested here is the article: https://newsregister.com/article?articleTitle=jeremy-shapiro-science-deniers-fail-to-appreciate-complexities--1526674871--29659--commentary

[PoeticG]

Typical flu symptoms include fever, cough, sore throat, muscle aches, headaches, runny or stuffy nose, fatigue and, sometimes, vomiting and diarrhea, according to the CDC. Flu symptoms often come on suddenly. Most people who get the flu will recover in less than two weeks. But in some people, the flu causes complications, including pneumonia. The overall hospitalization rate in the U.S. for flu this season is about 68 hospitalizations per 100,000 people, according to the CDC.

 

With COVID-19, doctors are still trying to understand the full picture of disease symptoms and severity. Reported symptoms in patients have varied from mild to severe, and can include fever, cough and shortness of breath, according to the CDC. Other symptoms may include fever, chills, repeated shaking with chills, muscle pain, headache, sore throat and new loss of taste or smell. COVID-19 symptoms appear to come on more gradually than those of flu, according to Healthline.

 

So, is it the flu or not? I don't know about you but I've had the CHILLS many time when I've had the flu but apparently I must have had Coronavirus the whole time... 

I've always heard if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... 

[PoeticG]

I guess it confuses some people when you put the words in different orders...

[PoeticG]

 

 

Maybe Coronavirus happens when you get THE FLU and THE COLD at the same time 🤔

[Dutch Oven]

I know I would start to doubt my argument on any topic if nickers and PoG were on the same side of it. 

[nickers]

15 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Good Kick!

[PoeticG]

Everyone has the freedom to think freely and believe what they want. That is your right as well as anybody else for that matter. 

So those who belittle other for having differing beliefs, should listen twice as much as they speak. 

Those who think I'm insensitive or think that I believe that any loss of life is okay have me sorely mistaken, it's quite the contrary.

When I say that the "common flu" kills 60,000 Americans and over 600,000 HUMAN BEINGS across the face of the Earth each year; I don't mean it dismissively or to minimize those deaths or to say that some death is worse than another. The bottom line is I care and hope the best for each and everyone, life is precious. It's just to offer another perspective. 

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, D Bone said:

Because it's hard to get being in the future and all I suppose... hard to get like the correct number of people who have actually had this virus and either didn't even know it or were sick for a short period of time, and either way they never got tested to be included in the stats, making this virus far less deadly than is being reported by our trusted media and politicians.... maybe more contagious, I'll give you that, but far less deadly.  

 

 

Well, maybe, maybe not.  I just learned that a friend of mine  was suffering from a respiratory infection  back in December....a month before  the first documented case in the US.  At the time they didn't/couldn't diagnose it as Coronavirus..because hell, doctors here had never even heard of it.  But think if he had died....and never went diagnosed simply because it was not something tested for or conceived of.  We have no clue how many people may have died of  undiagnosed  CV-19?  So, it cuts both ways. 

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, Barry said:

You have touched on an excellent point which a good friend of mine, who is a psychologist, has written about. The topic is how science deniers fail to appreciate detail, or complexities, in argument. They think in broad concepts, black and white. Exactly what you refer to. This is far from talking about football, but then again this topic is also. For those interested here is the article: https://newsregister.com/article?articleTitle=jeremy-shapiro-science-deniers-fail-to-appreciate-complexities--1526674871--29659--commentary

Hmmm.   Yet, when I introduced detail,  complexity, subtlety and analysis  into your  "would you go to a game"  question,  you got pissed because I did not give the black or white answer that you apparently were looking for.  Curiouser and curiouser. 

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, PoeticG said:

Typical flu symptoms include fever, cough, sore throat, muscle aches, headaches, runny or stuffy nose, fatigue and, sometimes, vomiting and diarrhea, according to the CDC. Flu symptoms often come on suddenly. Most people who get the flu will recover in less than two weeks. But in some people, the flu causes complications, including pneumonia. The overall hospitalization rate in the U.S. for flu this season is about 68 hospitalizations per 100,000 people, according to the CDC.

 

With COVID-19, doctors are still trying to understand the full picture of disease symptoms and severity. Reported symptoms in patients have varied from mild to severe, and can include fever, cough and shortness of breath, according to the CDC. Other symptoms may include fever, chills, repeated shaking with chills, muscle pain, headache, sore throat and new loss of taste or smell. COVID-19 symptoms appear to come on more gradually than those of flu, according to Healthline.

 

So, is it the flu or not? I don't know about you but I've had the CHILLS many time when I've had the flu but apparently I must have had Coronavirus the whole time... 

I've always heard if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... 

Too much exposure to PoG  posts could result in fever, headaches, fatigue, chills, muscle pain, head shaking, a loss of taste and smell,  and sometimes vomiting.  

One difference though is that  PoG-2020  syndrome  comes on suddenly like ton of bricks falling on you. 

[The Gipper]

25 minutes ago, PoeticG said:

Everyone has the freedom to think freely and believe what they want. That is your right as well as anybody else for that matter. 

So those who belittle other for having differing beliefs, should listen twice as much as they speak. 

You are entitled to different beliefs and opinions.  You are not entitled to your own set of facts. 

Those who think I'm insensitive or think that I believe that any loss of life is okay have me sorely mistaken, it's quite the contrary.

When I say that the "common flu" kills 60,000 Americans and over 600,000 HUMAN BEINGS across the face of the Earth each year; I don't mean it dismissively or to minimize those deaths or to say that some death is worse than another. The bottom line is I care and hope the best for each and everyone, life is precious. It's just to offer another perspective. 

Then, if you are so caring....you should care about getting your facts right. 

 

[PoeticG]

10 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

 

Then there again it's what FACTS do you believe in. 

I say it's a FACT that Jesus is a real and living God. Someone who does not believe would say it's a FACT that he's not real.

So, it's what YOU choose to believe in and from what side you get your FACTS from... because there's always at least two sides, sometimes more. 

Bottom line, if I was you and you were me, we'd both agree that each other were right. Live and let live, do you YOU think is right, but respect others because maybe you're wrong...

 

[The Gipper]

22 minutes ago, PoeticG said:

Then there again it's what FACTS do you believe in. 

I say it's a FACT that Jesus is a real and living God. Someone who does not believe would say it's a FACT that he's not real.

So, it's what YOU choose to believe in and from what side you get your FACTS from... because there's always at least two sides, sometimes more. 

Bottom line, if I was you and you were me, we'd both agree that each other were right. Live and let live, do you YOU think is right, but respect others because maybe you're wrong...

 

This is a specious argument.  .   Facts do not change because you either do or do not believe in them.  The facts are the facts.  You do not get to choose facts,   facts don't come from "either side", and there are not two sides to facts. 

You have beliefs, you have opinions, you have faith in something,  you may try to put spin on interpreting  what facts mean,   but you do NOT have a separate set of facts.  What you or I may think about facts does not change facts. 

Some facts may be unknowable perhaps.    Your Jesus example is NOT a question of what the facts are....it is question of what you believe in, or in what the other guy does not believe in. 

I could believe that the Browns are defending Super Bowl Champions.  My beliefs do not make it a fact. 

And trust me,  humans CAN be fallible in what the BELIEVE facts are.   And sometimes those facts can be misinterpreted.  In my profession it is necessary to deal with all kinds of fact.   But we also deal with the real other side of the coin:   what you can convince someone those facts mean....and whether or not you can actually discern what facts are. 

 

[PoeticG]

14 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

This is a specious argument.  .   Facts do not change because you either do or do not believe in them.  The facts are the facts.  You do not get to choose facts,   facts don't come from "either side", and there are not two sides to facts. 

You have beliefs, you have opinions, you have faith in something,  you may try to put spin on interpreting  what facts mean,   but you do NOT have a separate set of facts.  What you or I may think about facts does not change facts. 

Some facts may be unknowable perhaps.    Your Jesus example is NOT a question of what the facts are....it is question of what you believe in, or in what the other guy does not believe in. 

I could believe that the Browns are defending Super Bowl Champions.  My beliefs do not make it a fact. 

And trust me,  humans CAN be fallible in what the BELIEVE facts are.   And sometimes those facts can be misinterpreted.  In my profession it is necessary to deal with all kinds of fact.   But we also deal with the real other side of the coin:   what you can convince someone those facts mean....and whether or not you can actually discern what facts are. 

 

Well, depending on your interpretation of the facts you certainly can have two different sides to facts. 

Say that analogy for instance about the Browns being defending Super Bowl Champions... Being as each season is reset and no team is greater than another, as long as Cleveland never loses they are essentially the Superbowl Champions... they are defending their title each time they take the field. 

I know it's not quite the same but a cool thought none-the-less...

[PoeticG]

Besides that... I gave you the facts straight according to the CDC when in fact they have identical symptoms. And the fact that "Chills" and "shaking from chills" are a common "common flu" symptom that was left out. Those were the facts. 

Now if we're interpreting them, I say its the same thing. You say it's not. It's down to belief again. 

[PoeticG]

Look guys, if we were talking Ebola or Bubonic Plague or something crazy like that, I'd be right there with ya. But we're talking about the flu. Not Ebola, the flu...

I feel like Iverson- and ya'll in here talkin about practice?...

[tiamat63]

1 hour ago, PoeticG said:

Then there again it's what FACTS do you believe in. 

I say it's a FACT that Jesus is a real and living God. Someone who does not believe would say it's a FACT that he's not real.

So, it's what YOU choose to believe in and from what side you get your FACTS from... because there's always at least two sides, sometimes more. 

Bottom line, if I was you and you were me, we'd both agree that each other were right. Live and let live, do you YOU think is right, but respect others because maybe you're wrong...

 

Well, this would explain your obsession with marginal players.

The second something is a FACT, any and all evidence becomes irrelevant.    Which means either you're mentally handicapped or trolling.  Neither is ideal. 

[PoeticG]

21 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Well, this would explain your obsession with marginal players.

The second something is a FACT, any and all evidence becomes irrelevant.    Which means either you're mentally handicapped or trolling.  Neither is ideal. 

So what you're saying is that a fact has never been proven wrong? 

[The Gipper]

7 minutes ago, PoeticG said:

So what you're saying is that a fact has never been proven wrong? 

No it is either proven to not have been a fact or that the interpretation of the fact was wrong. 

[PoeticG]

Just now, The Gipper said:

No it is either proven to not have been a fact or that the interpretation of the fact was wrong. 

So it's good to challenge the facts?

[tiamat63]

14 minutes ago, PoeticG said:

So what you're saying is that a fact has never been proven wrong? 

Then it was never a fact, merely a theory.

Fact - Kevin Hogan is a backup NFL QB.  

[The Gipper]

11 minutes ago, PoeticG said:

So it's good to challenge the facts?

You can challenge them as to whether or not they are facts yes. Just because you challenge him doesn’t mean you’re right and that they are not facts. 

[Nero]

4 hours ago, PoeticG said:

Look guys, if we were talking Ebola or Bubonic Plague or something crazy like that, I'd be right there with ya. But we're talking about the flu. Not Ebola, the flu...

I feel like Iverson- and ya'll in here talkin about practice?...

You should look the global numbers. Probably the COVID doesn't have the death rate of many other viruses, we don't know yet, but if it's 100 times more contagious it doesn't matter.. 

Let's say you have 1000 people, and someone has a virus: 

100 people get it, but only 1 dies. 1% death rate. 

Let's say we have a virus with 0,5% death rate. 

Would you say it's less dangerous? 

Well, if 400 persons get infected, you have 2 dead people in the end of the day, twice as much as the first case. And what we should care about is overall numbers, and not death rate. 

We might never know the death rate of COVID, thanks to the insuficient amount of testing: either you have way more people who have already been through it but you don't know (lowering the death rate) or you have people dying directly or indirectly related to COVID (rising the death rate). 

What we know is that maybe is the most contagious virus we have ever faced, so that already tells you it's not the fucking flu. 

[Ibleedbrown]

10 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

C'mon, DB... It's not as if we've never had a recession before.

So where are the numbers?

Suicide is something the media takes great care in reporting, and l’m pretty sure in some cases doesn’t get reported at all. So to the question where are the numbers, we will probably eventually get them but l don’t think they’re readily available now to us common folk. 

In a bit of research l found this...

https://www.nami.org/Blogs/NAMI-Blog/June-2018/Why-Suicide-Reporting-Guidelines-Matter

...which is basically a sort of media guidelines thing on how to report suicide and why it’s important to do it that way.

Basically the fear is suicide itself is seen as a contagion and the people who track these things have seen spikes in suicide rates after a high profile suicide was reported. They use Robin Williams as an example. 

I think all it means is we don’t get the full story until yearly numbers are tallied and eventually released.