Donovan Peoples-Jones

[Nero]

50 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

(beyond that, I am not sure you expressed yourself properly:  "where less impact has each action" ?  I am not sure what you are trying to say here.   

I'm saying that there are so many games, innings and pitches in baseball, that although in each pitch can happen something interesting (just like in any sport), the repercussion in the season is less important.

Let's say you are only a hitter, and don't hit the ball in a pitch. Don't worry, because you have 3 strikes to be out, and 2 of your team mates must be out too to end the inning, and you have 9 innings. So if the pitcher made a perfect game, it would be 3x3x9, which is 81 plays in a game (with no balls, we have a perfect pitcher here), so each chance you have represents 1,23% of the game (in a game with a perfect pitcher). 

Now let's look at the season: 162 games. That means that every game represents 0,62% of the season. So each pitch represents (0,0062 x 0,0123) = 7,59 x 10 e-5. And that's counting perfect pitchers in every game. In American Football, the 2012 Patriots had 74 snaps per game. You know how much each snap represents? 8,44 x10e-5. (You take 1 and divide by 74 and 16 games). 

So every snap in American Football is already 10 times more important than each pitch of the MLB if it had perfect pitchers. 

Edited April 26, 2020 by Nero
I may write perfect pitcher once again in the edit comment, too. 

[Nero]

53 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

It's called "taking a dive"... An old Philly Flyer (NHL) named Bill Barber made a career out of drawing tripping penalties on an opponent...

 

Story is pretty much the same in football and futball... to really appreciate the game you have to watch the game going on away from the ball. It's the way to see what's coming in either sport. Not easy to do, but rewarding.

Yeah, as Woody said "floppig". I didn't want to look for the therm so thanks for telling. 

And the bold part hits in the nail. You have to watch the team as a whole: positioning, movements. In fútbol most of the time it is not about what the guy carrying the ball does, but what is the rest of the team doing. There are only few players that can make a play on their own. 

In NFL is something that I have been training myself to, because every play every player has its assignments and everything goes from 0 to 10 in the snap, so it's more difficult to simplify the game to the point you can proccess it fast enough. 

[Tour2ma]

21 minutes ago, Nero said:

Yeah, as Woody said "floppig". I didn't want to look for the therm so thanks for telling. 

And the bold part hits in the nail. You have to watch the team as a whole: positioning, movements. In fútbol most of the time it is not about what the guy carrying the ball does, but what is the rest of the team doing. There are only few players that can make a play on their own. 

In NFL is something that I have been training myself to, because every play every player has its assignments and everything goes from 0 to 10 in the snap, so it's more difficult to simplify the game to the point you can proccess it fast enough.  

Flopping comes from basketball... much of the time when defender "embellishes" the force of a pick or a charge, but shooters and players setting picks do it as well. Flopping probably applies even better to futbol... except for trips...

 

Like hockey, futball has more choreographed movement, more set plays than are obvious only if you don't follow the ball/puck.

 

Football? Yeah, we know its choreographed to the max, but if you follow the ball you only see the result, not what created it.

Once upon a time following the guards took you to every play. Now? There's a lot more deception, but it's still a good place to start for Offense.

For D, start with the ILB(s) at the top of the box most downs. However, in obvious throwing situations like 3rd and long the big green space in the middle of the 2ndary works as long as the TV crew stays with a wide shot. You can always see the sack you may miss in replay... but you may never be shown the reason the QB held the ball too long.

[hoorta]

13 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

I'll give it a little bit. The Scottish Hammer is still a beast

Also, I'm on your side of the soccer debate. They just don't know what they're talking about, it's ok. I look forward to a future in the US where baseball is on life support and soccer is thriving.

No doubt  baseball is on the way out Woody. All of  April is gone in the MLB season, and except for the few hardcore fans, I doubt anyone  has missed it. Nothing more meaningless than a regular season game. (I like Nero's math) They could easily knock off 62 or more games, except they couldn't pay those astronomical salaries. Those IMHO will be the thing that eventually  kills off the sport. That, and to an ever increasing number of sports fans, it's just too  damn boring. If Gip says something could happen  on every  pitch, well 90% of the time, nothing does. Most  fans at a game are more  interested in when they're going to get  their next beer than in the actual game. You could go to the beach, drink, watch the waves come in "ooohhh THAT was a big one!!!" Not spend money on a ticket, and probably have as much fun.  :) 

[LondonBrown]

3 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Ditto... if I was across the pond. As for TV-watching... World Cups involving USA whenever on, but historically US women's teams more than men's because of their superior precision. Until recently USA men just looked like a collection of individuals.

Quick Story... business trip to Grangemouth, Scotland to visit my company's manufacturing facility there. My hosts booked me into a Best Western in a converted castle... neat place even if they did not reserve one of the higher-priced rooms physically in the castle. Anyway the 1st evening I was there was a Scotland vs. England match in a Cup qualifier IIRC.

The Hotel's bar was packed with fans... many in kilts... most of whom were members/attendees of a wedding party there for the reception. Even the bride was there. An attractive "lass" in a beautiful white dress. You think the Browns have rivalries??? The cheering was vicious. They did the garter thing at half-time.

Scotland hung tough for a good part of the game, but alas the joy of the wedding party was ultimately dashed, but it was a cool way to spend an evening.

This must have been the qualifier for 2000 I reckon, they really should have beaten us we were lucky to go through. 

[MLD Woody]

1 hour ago, hoorta said:

No doubt  baseball is on the way out Woody. All of  April is gone in the MLB season, and except for the few hardcore fans, I doubt anyone  has missed it. Nothing more meaningless than a regular season game. (I like Nero's math) They could easily knock off 62 or more games, except they couldn't pay those astronomical salaries. Those IMHO will be the thing that eventually  kills off the sport. That, and to an ever increasing number of sports fans, it's just too  damn boring. If Gip says something could happen  on every  pitch, well 90% of the time, nothing does. Most  fans at a game are more  interested in when they're going to get  their next beer than in the actual game. You could go to the beach, drink, watch the waves come in "ooohhh THAT was a big one!!!" Not spend money on a ticket, and probably have as much fun.  :) 

Uh oh. Careful now. You're not allowed to say baseball is dying even though there are plenty of statistics showing just that. Gip is going to get on your ass about it

[MLD Woody]

Just for the record, there's a difference between "there's nothing happening" and "you not understanding what's happening".

 

There is nothing happening off the ball in baseball and everyone just stands around waiting. 

There's always something happening in soccer.

 

Baseball had a good run. During the great depression it was probably super exciting. But let's get over the "national past time" junk and see it for what it is

[Tour2ma]

58 minutes ago, LondonBrown said:

This must have been the qualifier for 2000 I reckon, they really should have beaten us we were lucky to go through. 

That'd be the right timing. I was doing "Management Development" course work at Warwick U. in Coventry then and often tacked "business" trips to Zeneca sites on either side of Y2K...

... with my golf clubs in tow.

I was especially attracted to our Scotland holdings... for some reason. Found some good ones too, like, St. Andrews and Carnoustie and, most of all, Turnberry... back before it turned orange.

 

And I remember your bearded, analytics guru, Colbern now... Scot or Irishman? I believe you sent me something a couple years back "about" him.

[gumby73]

49 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

There's always something happening in soccer.

     a) handheld Zamboni tube use for a lost soccer ball?  or b) did Club Med Cleo see a bad moon arisen?   

[LondonBrown]

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

That'd be the right timing. I was doing "Management Development" course work at Warwick U. in Coventry then and often tacked "business" trips to Zeneca sites on either side of Y2K...

... with my golf clubs in tow.

I was especially attracted to our Scotland holdings... for some reason. Found some good ones too, like, St. Andrews and Carnoustie and, most of all, Turnberry... back before it turned orange.

 

And I remember your bearded, analytics guru, Colbern now... Scot or Irishman? I believe you sent me something a couple years back "about" him.

Warwick U nice, one of our more prestigious ones!  Attending THE Open at St Andrews is on the bucket list

Cobern is American as far as I am aware

[Dutch Oven]

"There's always something happening in soccer"...

Just like there's always something happening when paint is drying, yet it's not worth caring about. 

[LondonBrown]

The lockdown and no soccer has been interesting for me personally. 

I have had a season ticket for 20 years and followed them all over Europe when playing in the UEFA competitions but I really dont think I miss it not being on. A lot of that is probably how rubbish we have got in the last 12-18 months but I'm surprised how flippant I am about it being gone.

5-10 years ago I have no doubt I would have been going out my mind, maybe I'm just getting old...

[Unsympathetic]

Lots of thoughts on DPJ

"Erratic quarterback play at Michigan allowed him to showcase his ability to make adjustments to off-target throws and snatch the football securely outside of his frame."

"The biggest concern with Peoples-Jones at the next level is how consistently he can beat press coverage and if he has enough quick-twitch qualities to be a consistent separator."

Even if he doesn't see the field at WR, 6th seems about the right spot for guys who play on 4th down..

[Orion]

Really little kids soccer is special.  It's a circular blob of little kids...with presumably, a soccer ball in the middle...and the blob slowly moving slightly left, right, back and forth.  The ball is kinda' like a photon trying to make it all the way out of the sun and out into space.

I quit watching baseball years ago.  My first year in Little League I played outfield.  It was so freakin' boring out there.  A low flying bird would come by and you'd JUMP to attention, waking up from your daydream thinking that the ball was actually hit.....but nope, it's just a bird....back to sleep...

---------------

I would like to say here that SOFTBALL was lots of fun.  You lob a fatty up there for the batter to hit, and he HITS the ball.  Novel idea.

[D Bone]

In Supercross/motocross, when we "flop", it's usually at high speed and it makes the ESPN highlight reel. Once the rag doll session comes to an end, we instantly gather our senses and scramble back to our motorcycles to get back on and try to win the race. Often times we find out 6, 8, 12hrs later that we have a broken clavicle, scapula or rib.... ask me how I know.

If you think I would watch a sport for even a second where people are encouraged from a young age to fake an injury, and it is actually a known part of the game, well, let's just say you would be wrong..... those soccer and basketball players are just so very courageous. 

carry on..........................

 

[MLD Woody]

19 minutes ago, Orion said:

Really little kids soccer is special.  It's a circular blob of little kids...with presumably, a soccer ball in the middle...and the blob slowly moving slightly left, right, back and forth.  The ball is kinda' like a photon trying to make it all the way out of the sun and out into space.

 

I coached Smurf soccer (and U7, U8, etc). It's hard to get them to do anything correctly haha. But the massive blob following the ball is 100% correct.

[Barry]

1 hour ago, Unsympathetic said:

Lots of thoughts on DPJ

"The biggest concern with Peoples-Jones at the next level is how consistently he can beat press coverage and if he has enough quick-twitch qualities to be a consistent separator."

 

This is what concerns me the most. You can teach a guy to run better routes and maybe show him some technical things to beat a press cover or to help him potentially get open. But if a guy can't fake out a defender I have never heard of that skill-set being taught so that he suddenly learns how to do it. If the quickness (as opposed to speed) and twitch isn't there it ain't going to grow on him.

That isn't to say he won't be a good 3rd receiver. He reminds me in a way of Antonio Callaway. I thought Callaway's twitch and ability to get a step through deception was bad. But his speed was very good and, importantly, his quickness, was very good. I could be wrong but I don't see quickness in DP-J's route-running, and the analysis confirms this. But where he will be better than Callaway is his size and his ability to fight and come down with the ball, which is fantastic. So he will be a capable 3rd receiver, imo.

Which brings up a question. Has anyone heard what the hell Higgins did that put him in 2 Browns' FO doghouses?

[Canton Mike]

4 minutes ago, Barry said:

This is what concerns me the most. You can teach a guy to run better routes and maybe show him some technical things to beat a press cover or to help him potentially get open. But if a guy can't fake out a defender I have never heard of that skill-set being taught so that he suddenly learns how to do it. If the quickness (as opposed to speed) and twitch isn't there it ain't going to grow on him.

That isn't to say he won't be a good 3rd receiver. He reminds me in a way of Antonio Callaway. I thought Callaway's twitch and ability to get a step through deception was bad. But his speed was very good and, importantly, his quickness, was very good. I could be wrong but I don't see quickness in DP-J's route-running, and the analysis confirms this. But where he will be better than Callaway is his size and his ability to fight and come down with the ball, which is fantastic. So he will be a capable 3rd receiver, imo.

Which brings up a question. Has anyone heard what the hell Higgins did that put him in 2 Browns' FO doghouses?

I would love to know about Higgins as well, but we'll never know unless HE decides to say something.

Mike

[Orion]

24 minutes ago, Barry said:

This is what concerns me the most. You can teach a guy to run better routes and maybe show him some technical things to beat a press cover or to help him potentially get open. But if a guy can't fake out a defender I have never heard of that skill-set being taught

I think I read somewhere that he has a kinda' unique plant step on certain cuts that gives him an advantage.  (blowing my own horn) I use to have a plant step that made me look like I was going one way when actually it would propel me in the other direction.

[MLD Woody]

[Tour2ma]

6 hours ago, gumby73 said:

 

OK... I give.

Did the lad pull a glut?

Take one in the nads so hard that this was the shortest access route?

Or just trying to keep Diarrhea off the field?

[hoorta]

11 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

Just for the record, there's a difference between "there's nothing happening" and 1) "you not understanding what's happening".

2) There is nothing happening off the ball in baseball and everyone just stands around waiting. 

There's always something happening in soccer.

Baseball had a good run. During the great depression it was probably super exciting. But let's get over the "national past time" junk and see it for what it is

1) And they don't even want to try.

2) Conveniently ignored. Little League, you could stand around in the outfield for a couple innings, and most of the time, take a nap. 

Ah beisbool is for those really old guys who can say- when I was a young whipper snapper my great-great grand daddy went out to stadiums that don't exist anymore to see Ty Cobb, Tris speaker, and them old time greats play baseball. They'll be able to watch every Indians game from their rooms in the nursing homes soon. And you would have to be around 80 to actually remember when the Tribe won it's last World Series. 

Can't blame Gipper because he likes to live in the past. I never saw Otto Graham play- and he didn't either- unless his Mom took him to a Browns game when he was 3 years old.   

 

[Flugel]

8 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

OK... I give.

Did the lad pull a glut?

Take one in the nads so hard that this was the shortest access route?

Or just trying to keep Diarrhea off the field?

At the very least, it sure looks like an effective pest control treatment for any entitled brats with bugs up their asss.  The Browns could have definitely used a Fanny Pest Control Specialist over the years.  FWIW, it's never too late...

[Zombo]

This Is a very long thread for a 6th round pick.

I just wanna know if he returns kicks.

Z

[Orion]

11 minutes ago, Zombo said:

I just wanna know if he returns kicks.

I recall seeing stats that he's not returned any kicks.  Just punts.

 

Punt & Kick Returns

 

						Punt Ret				Kick Ret
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Ret	Yds	Avg	TD	Ret	Yds	Avg	TD
Career	Michigan					89	743	8.3	2	0	0		0
*2017	Michigan	Big Ten	FR	WR	13	40	320	8.0	1	0	0		0
*2018	Michigan	Big Ten	SO	WR	13	25	250	10.0	1	0	0		0
*2019	Michigan	Big Ten	JR	WR	11	24	173	7.2	0	0	0		0

[MLD Woody]

8 hours ago, hoorta said:

 

Can't blame Gipper because he likes to live in the past. 

 

Amen

[Zombo]

1 hour ago, Orion said:

I recall seeing stats that he's not returned any kicks.  Just punts.

 

Punt & Kick Returns

 

						Punt Ret				Kick Ret
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Ret	Yds	Avg	TD	Ret	Yds	Avg	TD
Career	Michigan					89	743	8.3	2	0	0		0
*2017	Michigan	Big Ten	FR	WR	13	40	320	8.0	1	0	0		0
*2018	Michigan	Big Ten	SO	WR	13	25	250	10.0	1	0	0		0
*2019	Michigan	Big Ten	JR	WR	11	24	173	7.2	0	0	0		0

That pretty good production as a punt returner.

I think I can update my depth chart and cut the fa kick returner we signed from the Rams, and bring back D'ernst Johson to return kickoffs and make Peoples Express the punt returner.

Z

[calfoxwc]

14 hours ago, D Bone said:

In Supercross/motocross, when we "flop", it's usually at high speed and it makes the ESPN highlight reel. Once the rag doll session comes to an end, we instantly gather our senses and scramble back to our motorcycles to get back on and try to win the race. Often times we find out 6, 8, 12hrs later that we have a broken clavicle, scapula or rib.... ask me how I know.

If you think I would watch a sport for even a second where people are encouraged from a young age to fake an injury, and it is actually a known part of the game, well, let's just say you would be wrong..... those soccer and basketball players are just so very courageous. 

carry on..........................

 

 back in the day, my cousin ran motorcross, had some pretty back wrecks, a couple were caused by other riders. I didn't care for it - he ended up with a few months of recovery - so I stayed with enduroes - 2.5 hrs of riding down dry or whte water creek beds down mountains, through miles of woods...down rail road ties with no rails, through giant mudholes, through flooded dirt roads, etc etc.

  I know, because I was riding way too fast on a mountain ridge in Virginia, trying to catch up with my cousin, but someone had wrecked and tore down the red warning ribbon. So, splashing through mountain laurel blooms, no warning ribbon, I went off a mountain ridge and hit a tree about ten feet on the ground.

   Sprained by back pretty bad, the bike landed on me - not one tree had any sympathy for me, so pretending to be hurt wouldn't have worked anyways. I never could get the bike off me til a clean up crew of two riders came by up the mountain, saw the ribbon gone, and searched for me.  I actually had to ride about six miles to a dirt road, and I don't remember how far down the dirt road back to the start.

   And, I was in the Air Force, and had to drive back to Ohio to be at work the next morning. I made it.

and THAT was more fun than soccer.

    You get banged up enough without pretended to be hurt. And usually, you are miles from the nearest other human being, so pretending wouldn't do any good anyways. LOL

   Soccer is like no-ice hockey - I just don't appreciate it. It's boring and/or aggravating most of the time. Unless it's watching kids play - that is fun.

   Fishing and not catching anything because a cold front is coming in, and the wind keeps grabbing at your canoe...

that is really far more exciting than soccer. Just my opinion.

  Football is special. Controlled team play from snaps of the ball, a war of 11 on 11, or in the case of playing the squeelers, 11 on 11+1 squeeler fan referee. lol

[MLD Woody]

48 minutes ago, Zombo said:

That pretty good production as a punt returner.

I think I can update my depth chart and cut the fa kick returner we signed from the Rams, and bring back D'ernst Johson to return kickoffs and make Peoples Express the punt returner.

Z

His two TDs

 

 

And one against OSU

 

[The Gipper]

22 hours ago, Nero said:

I'm saying that there are so many games, innings and pitches in baseball, that although in each pitch can happen something interesting (just like in any sport), the repercussion in the season is less important.

Let's say you are only a hitter, and don't hit the ball in a pitch. Don't worry, because you have 3 strikes to be out, and 2 of your team mates must be out too to end the inning, and you have 9 innings. So if the pitcher made a perfect game, it would be 3x3x9, which is 81 plays in a game (with no balls, we have a perfect pitcher here), so each chance you have represents 1,23% of the game (in a game with a perfect pitcher). 

Now let's look at the season: 162 games. That means that every game represents 0,62% of the season. So each pitch represents (0,0062 x 0,0123) = 7,59 x 10 e-5. And that's counting perfect pitchers in every game. In American Football, the 2012 Patriots had 74 snaps per game. You know how much each snap represents? 8,44 x10e-5. (You take 1 and divide by 74 and 16 games). 

So every snap in American Football is already 10 times more important than each pitch of the MLB if it had perfect pitchers. 

Again....just a display of lack of understanding of the game.  Baseball is played every day....162 games.  Football only plays 16 games (for now).  Soccer is only a once a week sport mostly.    It is just the nature of the sport. Your argument seems to be that the more  touches of the ball somehow dissipates each  touch.  

Or, you could look at it as baseball has 10 more times the opportunities for something exciting to happen.   

And maybe what you also don't understand is that  those game where on few of those "touches" result  nothing happen....may be among the most exciting plays in the game.  There may be nothing more intense and exciting than a good pitchers duel.  Again the duel word comes into play. Each at bat is a duel, pitcher vs. batter.  And pitcher vs. pitcher duels  can be as exciting as the Earps vs. Clanton.