Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
darren15

Draft Grades

Recommended Posts

Jim Cobern and his purely data driven grades. It won’t interest some but will others.....food for thought for those that think the Ravens won the draft ?

 

 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, LondonBrown said:

Jim Cobern and his purely data driven grades. It won’t interest some but will others.....food for thought for those that think the Ravens won the draft ?

May I have a link, please, explaining methodology for "AAS" vs. "AAS Rank" in to this chart?

image.thumb.png.72ef43f9a60fa636fe173a279efa09e0.png

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

My early take... plan to spend some time with tape to see what revisions are needed...

1.10 - OT Jedrick Wills.... A ... solid pick, while there were other OTs with better skills in one area or another that I liked a shade better, Wills was at least my #2 in every area.

2.44 - S Grant Delpit ....... C+ . I don't like players with "ifs" on Day 2. There were other Safeties that were "if-less" in my book, Chinn/Davis, that could have been had later.

3.88 - IDL Jordan Elliott... C... ditto the above... except the remaining IDL value that I saw was even lower in the draft, but if his tech develops, then?

3.97 - LB Jacob Phillips... B- ... if he can cover, then maybe he can be as good as Schobert? I admit it, I wanted Harrison because I see more thump in him.

4-115-TE Harrison Bryant D ... no if here... I just don't get adding another one-dimensional TE. Plus has short-arms and not very agile... not Devalve-like as a receiver.

5-160 - C Nick Harris ....... B+ . nice scheme fit, very nice get-off... just has to get stronger... which is not an if.

6-187-WR Peoples-Jones..B- .. great Combine... if UM issues were due to QB play could approach "steal" status and in the 6th an if is OK...

Overall: B-... with UDFAs call it a B

Nice write up!   At first, the D for Bryant seemed a little harsh until I got to your reasoning.  I've posted more than a few times in the last year about wanting a dual purpose TE (one that doesn't tip off a tendency when he's in because he can block, catch AND get open).

At the other end of the spectrum, Charley Casserly thinks Harrison Bryant is the best pick made by anyone on Saturday (at 6:35 into the video).  

 

  • Thanks 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is Casserly rockin' a rug???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

May I have a link, please, explaining methodology for "AAS" vs. "AAS Rank" in to this chart?

image.thumb.png.72ef43f9a60fa636fe173a279efa09e0.png

 

AAS is the number of players drafted with an above average score in terms of chance of success 

the rank column is his ranking but I don’t know how he gets there 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, darren15 said:

Wills ...... A ....best tackle in the draft...... Athleticism is off the chart, has the best O line coach in football to set him up for success at LT and also has a certain hall of famer for guidance.

Delpit ...... A ....... best safety in the draft ..Thorpe award winner... Tackling issues can be corrected and we have a really good DC for that ....was regarded as top 15 pick at the end of 2018 and played for most of 2019 with a high ankle sprain. ....during the play offs and championship game he did not miss a tackle 

Elliott .... A ....... Pff had him in top 25 on their big board .....Steal of the draft ..... huge upside

Phillips .... B- .... Good run blocker, sucks in coverage ...... has a high motor but needs to improve in coverage or will get torched ...

Bryant ... A- ..... Plays like an over sized receiver and was the best TE in football in 2019 .... needs to bulk up a little for blocking duties, but wont see much of the field on running plays.

Harris ... B .... Flexibility means he can slot in at guard too ...undersized but has great technique ....team captain at Washington 

Peoples Jones .... B+ ...... Some Browns fans on Twitter were upset we did not grab him in the 4th round and were horrified when we did not in the 5th ... vertical leap off the chart at the combine 44.5

Interesting.  Thanks Darren!  

1 thing I didn't know about Phillips is that he led LSU in tackles with 113 last year.  In comparison, Queen had 85. In the last 3 years, Queen only broke up 2 passes while Phillips was only slightly better with 5 pass breakups. Athlon's Draft Guide has Queen as the #2 rated ILB and Phillips as the OLB.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Is Casserly rockin' a rug???

That, or he found a shampoo made by Chia pet.

  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

USA Sports grades are out....

Quote

NFL draft grades 2020: Ravens, Vikings nab top team hauls while Packers, Eagles confound

The 2020 NFL draft has a bow on it, which means it's time for instant gratification: report cards for all 32 teams.

But first, a moment to spotlight the folly of this exercise given it generally takes about three years to fairly grade a club's draft performance.

How many people gave the New Orleans Saints an "A+" in 2017, when they picked offensive rookie of the year Alvin Kamara, defensive rookie of the year Marshon Lattimore and future all-pro Ryan Ramczyk? Might be the best class of the decade.

And how many gave the San Francisco 49ers an "A" in 2017, when they took defenders Solomon Thomas and Reuben Foster in Round 1?

But whatever. We're all looking for welcome distractions in the world of COVID-19, so let's jump that grading gun again and start scribbling with our digital red pen:

 

B+....... Cleveland Browns:

Seems rookie GM Andrew Berry has hit the ground running for a franchise that's been dysfunctional for so long. He followed up a nice free-agent harvest with what projects as a solid draft, first-round OT Jedrick Wills possibly the man who can finally fill Joe Thomas' void and second-round S Grant Delpit a potential gem. Given David Njoku is still on the roster, it's worth asking how many tight ends Berry and new coach Kevin Stefanski need after signing Austin Hooper to a huge contract and drafting highly regarded Harrison Bryant in Round 4.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/draft/2020/04/25/nfl-draft-grades-2020-teams-packers-eagles-cowboys-dolphins/3026362001/

Grade Summary:

  • A+ .... none
  • A ...... BLT, IND, MN
  • A- ..... AZ, CIN, WSH, DAL, PTG
  • B+ ..... CLE, DNV, SF, TB
  • B ....... CAR, CHI, DET, LAC, LAR, NE, NYJ
  • B- ...... BUF, NO
  • C+ .... JAX, KC, NYG
  • C ....... LAV, MIA
  • C- ...... ATL
  • D+ ..... SEA, TN
  • D ....... GB, PHI
  • F ........ HOU

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

USA Sports grades are out....

Grade Summary:

  • A+ .... none
  • A ...... BLT, IND, MN
  • A- ..... AZ, CIN, WSH, DAL, PTG
  • B+ ..... CLE, DNV, SF, TB
  • B ....... CAR, CHI, DET, LAC, LAR, NE, NYJ
  • B- ...... BUF, NO
  • C+ .... JAX, KC, NYG
  • C ....... LAV, MIA
  • C- ...... ATL
  • D+ ..... SEA, TN
  • D ....... GB, PHI
  • F ........ HOU

 

I would have rated Denver higher than that. Many new toys for Lock to play with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

USA Sports grades are out....

Grade Summary:

  • A+ .... none
  • A ...... BLT, IND, MN
  • A- ..... AZ, CIN, WSH, DAL, PTG
  • B+ ..... CLE, DNV, SF, TB
  • B ....... CAR, CHI, DET, LAC, LAR, NE, NYJ
  • B- ...... BUF, NO
  • C+ .... JAX, KC, NYG
  • C ....... LAV, MIA
  • C- ...... ATL
  • D+ ..... SEA, TN
  • D ....... GB, PHI
  • F ........ HOU

 

Pit no way A-.  Second pick some small school LB who never played against an NFL caliber lineman.

B tops.

Chase Cesspool does scare me a little though. A big, fast, Calvin Johnson size WR.  And he loves to block...like that other Stealer wide receiver since retired that we loved to hate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Is Casserly rockin' a rug???

 

7 hours ago, Flugel said:

That, or he found a shampoo made by Chia pet.

Every time I see Charlie on TV, I think of the movie "Tommy Boy" & Tommy's buddy (David Spade) with his wig blowin' in the wind. Always good for a laugh.

Mike

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/24/2020 at 11:53 AM, The Gipper said:

Honestly.....grading a draft now is a completely useless proposition.

You're right.

 

But it's excellent theatre. ;)

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
 
 
1
15 hours ago, darren15 said:

 

Peoples Jones .... B+ ...... Some Browns fans on Twitter were upset we did not grab him in the 4th round and were horrified when we did not in the 5th ... vertical leap off the chart at the combine 44.5

 

Honestly, I think the historic depth at WR in this draft caused a lot of WRs to fall. From Lamb in the first to KJ Hill in the 7th. Being potentially the greatest WR class of all time meant teams could wait.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brugler loved our draft. He rated it the 3rd best of all 32 teams. Unfortunately Baltimore was first. Cowboys second. Bengals were 6 and Pittsburgh 23.

His synopsis:

3. Cleveland Browns

 

ROUND/PICK #
  
PLAYER
  
POSITION
  
SCHOOL
  
1 (10) Jedrick Wills OT team-logo-263-50x50.pngAlabama
2 (44) Grant Delpit DS team-logo-267-50x50.pngLSU
3 (88) Jordan Elliott DT team-logo-261-50x50.pngMissouri
3 (97) Jacob Phillips LB team-logo-267-50x50.pngLSU
4 (115) Harrison Bryant TE team-logo-208-50x50.pngFlorida Atlantic
5 (160) Nick Harris OC team-logo-244-50x50.pngWashington
6 (187) Donovan Peoples-Jones WR team-logo-192-50x50.pngMichigan



Favorite pick: Jedrick Wills, OT, Alabama
A top-five ranked player on my board, the Browns drafted the best tackle in the class at No. 10 overall. I took some heat last fall when he shot to the top of my tackle rankings, but that reflects the tape and the Browns were able to get him. There is a projection with him moving from the right side to left tackle, but he has all the talent to do so and make Pro Bowls while on his rookie contract. My only gripe with the Browns’ class was their decision to draft Jacob Phillips over Malik Harrison, but I loved every other pick.

 

Day three pick who could surprise: Harrison Bryant, TE, Florida Atlantic
Part of the reason the Browns are so highly ranked on this list is the way they maximized the value of their three Day Three picks. Bryant might not be a bully as a blocker, but he can stretch the seam and shine in the quick passing game. Bryant has the talent to be an upgrade over David Njoku this season.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We got an A from Bucky Brooks so we can all sleep well now ....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

image.png.f3d523b6d0ef665e0c0d880b9c3327d0.png

I've been looking for a capsulized summary of our D's coverage scheme.

Not familiar with a match(up)-zone concept for 2ndaries. I'm more used to hearing it in B-ball, especially at the college level.

Guessing that they are conceptually similar with focus, if not proximity, dictated by who enters your assigned area... just a lot more area to cover vs B-ball... which makes football seem to be a much more difficult application.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Ibleedbrown said:

Brugler loved our draft. He rated it the 3rd best of all 32 teams. Unfortunately Baltimore was first. Cowboys second. Bengals were 6 and Pittsburgh 23.

His synopsis:

3. Cleveland Browns

 

ROUND/PICK #
  
PLAYER
  
POSITION
  
SCHOOL
  
1 (10) Jedrick Wills OT team-logo-263-50x50.pngAlabama
2 (44) Grant Delpit DS team-logo-267-50x50.pngLSU
3 (88) Jordan Elliott DT team-logo-261-50x50.pngMissouri
3 (97) Jacob Phillips LB team-logo-267-50x50.pngLSU
4 (115) Harrison Bryant TE team-logo-208-50x50.pngFlorida Atlantic
5 (160) Nick Harris OC team-logo-244-50x50.pngWashington
6 (187) Donovan Peoples-Jones WR team-logo-192-50x50.pngMichigan



Favorite pick: Jedrick Wills, OT, Alabama
A top-five ranked player on my board, the Browns drafted the best tackle in the class at No. 10 overall. I took some heat last fall when he shot to the top of my tackle rankings, but that reflects the tape and the Browns were able to get him. There is a projection with him moving from the right side to left tackle, but he has all the talent to do so and make Pro Bowls while on his rookie contract. My only gripe with the Browns’ class was their decision to draft Jacob Phillips over Malik Harrison, but I loved every other pick.

 

Day three pick who could surprise: Harrison Bryant, TE, Florida Atlantic
Part of the reason the Browns are so highly ranked on this list is the way they maximized the value of their three Day Three picks. Bryant might not be a bully as a blocker, but he can stretch the seam and shine in the quick passing game. Bryant has the talent to be an upgrade over David Njoku this season.

I see Harrison Bryant utilized differently. He may have challenged the seams at FAU but that will be harder to do here.

He’s a guy you go to on 3rd and 6 to get a first down.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

image.png.f3d523b6d0ef665e0c0d880b9c3327d0.png

I've been looking for a capsulized summary of our D's coverage scheme.

Not familiar with a match(up)-zone concept for 2ndaries. I'm more used to hearing it in B-ball, especially at the college level.

Guessing that they are conceptually similar with focus, if not proximity, dictated by who enters your assigned area... just a lot more area to cover vs B-ball... which makes football seem to be a much more difficult application.

It's lot of non-verbal pass offs and key reading based on receivers in pattern, initial breaks and motions.  vis a vis your coverage call.   I.E. Quarters schemes vs 2x2 sets have safeties playing the #2 vertical yet fall off if they push flat or shallow.  Some quarters might almost inverse that call (i''ve run that, but didn't enjoy it) where the #2 is read and the corner becomes a squat defender if the #2 breaks flat while the safety rotates over the #1.    Run fits in a cover 4 vary greatly by team and coaches.  Some love turning runs back inside to pursuit (my philosophy) others love spilling backs to the safeties that they trust to make hits and tackles.     Some coaches play their safeties so close to the box and their corners soft that it's hard to tell if you're getting inverted coverage or not.   There is a great amount of detail.

edit: pattern matching zones basically are zone pick ups with man coverage fundamentals.  Honestly, I hate having to describe it in a sentence or two.

My understanding of Saban's cover 3 is limited but I know he favors safety play that isn't reduced to 'FS' v 'SS' or field safety vs boundary safety.  Their guys tend to align on where the ball is marked and what side the strength of the offensive formation is.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ Sounds like a complicated scheme chock full of growing pains and major fuck up potential.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/27/2020 at 9:25 AM, Ibleedbrown said:

Brugler loved our draft. He rated it the 3rd best of all 32 teams. Unfortunately Baltimore was first. Cowboys second. Bengals were 6 and Pittsburgh 23.

His synopsis:

3. Cleveland Browns

 

ROUND/PICK #
  
PLAYER
  
POSITION
  
SCHOOL
  
1 (10) Jedrick Wills OT team-logo-263-50x50.pngAlabama
2 (44) Grant Delpit DS team-logo-267-50x50.pngLSU
3 (88) Jordan Elliott DT team-logo-261-50x50.pngMissouri
3 (97) Jacob Phillips LB team-logo-267-50x50.pngLSU
4 (115) Harrison Bryant TE team-logo-208-50x50.pngFlorida Atlantic
5 (160) Nick Harris OC team-logo-244-50x50.pngWashington
6 (187) Donovan Peoples-Jones WR team-logo-192-50x50.pngMichigan



Favorite pick: Jedrick Wills, OT, Alabama
A top-five ranked player on my board, the Browns drafted the best tackle in the class at No. 10 overall. I took some heat last fall when he shot to the top of my tackle rankings, but that reflects the tape and the Browns were able to get him. There is a projection with him moving from the right side to left tackle, but he has all the talent to do so and make Pro Bowls while on his rookie contract. My only gripe with the Browns’ class was their decision to draft Jacob Phillips over Malik Harrison, but I loved every other pick.

Day three pick who could surprise: Harrison Bryant, TE, Florida Atlantic
Part of the reason the Browns are so highly ranked on this list is the way they maximized the value of their three Day Three picks. Bryant might not be a bully as a blocker, but he can stretch the seam and shine in the quick passing game. Bryant has the talent to be an upgrade over David Njoku this season.

The interesting thing about Bryant is he actually played Offensive Tackle in high school as well as DE.  If you look at his draft day highlights below - those are the 1st highlights you'll see. He looked like he could block pretty well when that was his primary purpose.  Having said that, he looked leaner in his college portion of the video (my guess is that was by design to improve his quicks/speed).

FWIW, JJ Watt's first college program (Central Michigan) had him playing TE; where he played 14 games with 8 receptions for 77 yards.  That was going so ho-hum that his HC Butch Jones urged him to move to Offensive Tackle.  Instead, JJ opted to leave his starting job and scholarship there in order to walk on at Wisconsin.  That decision turned out to be JJ's winning lottery ticket.  Sometimes, you just have to hope that you go to the right staff/scheme/situation in terms of what you're best wired for.  This kid is a lot like JJ in terms of the menu of things he brings.  It says below that Bryant originally committed to Samford as a DE following 11 sacks as a high school senior. Like Berry and Stefanski have said in recent press conferences via my paraphrase - "We're not drafting finished products.  We're drafting the guys we feel will develop well in our schemes/system." 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/24/2020 at 7:02 AM, darren15 said:

Been reading some this morning ... The Browns got grades varying from A to B-

Some teams got a D
Raiders, Packers

Cowboys got a C from one grader for drafting Lamb instead of a defensive back or edge rusher

When a star falls to you unexpectedly, you grab him like Dallas did Lamb. I applaud them for doing it. That offense went from solid to dope and for cheap. DC is for real. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Icecube said:

When a star falls to you unexpectedly, you grab him like Dallas did Lamb. I applaud them for doing it. That offense went from solid to dope and for cheap. DC is for real. 

Broncos jumped like Joe T when Jeudy fell in their laps @ #15 overall. BPA and the perfect fit for Lock as their #1 need.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Flugel said:

Like Berry and Stefanski have said in recent press conferences via my paraphrase - "We're not drafting finished products.  We're drafting the guys we feel will develop well in our schemes/system." 

That is carryover philosophy from The Process...

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well it is... ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/24/2020 at 11:53 AM, The Gipper said:

Honestly.....grading a draft now is a completely useless proposition.

Other than for entertainment. Isn't entertainment a worthy endeavor? That's what following sports is: entertainment. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

That is carryover philosophy from The Process...

I completely disagree. The reason the Ravens and Steelers are always so good is because they develop from within and when they need to drop big money on one or two guys they can afford to do it. They make up for it by developing players and then getting comp picks when they leave. Cleveland is trying to do the same exact thing. They are thinking into the future. The Browns are hoping Njoku plays like a star and then they can try to deal him for a 1st or 2nd rounder or let him go the following year and get a 3rd round pick for him. Then they have Bryant developed and ready to slide right into his role. It's pretty obvious this is what they are trying to do. Don't be surprised for a Clowney signing on a short term deal either for this exact reason. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/26/2020 at 12:47 PM, Tour2ma said:

Is Casserly rockin' a rug???

I always thought he was. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Bigalow80 said:

I completely disagree.

Can't stop you, but...

 

It was a publicly stated goal of the Sashi led FO that their philosophy was to draft young, talented prospects and that it was the role of the Coaching Staff to develop them. That Berry, a product of that FO, would embrace that philosophy should not come as a surprise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×