Good idea? Maybe Browns trade down with Atlanta?

[Tour2ma]

22 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

It does come out worse on the phone. I will see what I can do  

Just stop posting from your phone... How 'bout that?

It's be a great loss, but I for one would be willing to make that sacrifice.

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

Just stop posting from your phone... How 'bout that?

It's be a great loss, but I for one would be willing to make that sacrifice.

 

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

Just stop posting from your phone... How 'bout that?

It's be a great loss, but I for one would be willing to make that sacrifice.

I did not post it from my phone. I saw it on my phone. But no I will not stop posting from my phone if I choose. But if you want to sacrifice yourself I know where there’s a volcano you can jump in

[Tour2ma]

Speaking of ATL....

I was reading a Power Ranking article and this stopped me cold...

Quote

14. Falcons (16): They're poised to deploy offense that starts a first-rounder at each position. And with a defense bolstered by DE Dante Fowler? Beware.

I've never imagined such a thing could be possible... especially is the age of "the cap"...

[SdBacker80]

4 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Speaking of ATL....

I was reading a Power Ranking article and this stopped me cold...

I've never imagined such a thing could be possible... especially is the age of "the cap"...

We are on second and third contracts with these guys but we just added in April alone on defense... Karl Joseph, Kevin Johnson and Adrian Clayborn all former fist rounders.   It’s possible when a few of them don’t develop like they should  

[The Gipper]

3 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

We are on second and third contracts with these guys but we just added in April alone on defense... Karl Joseph, Kevin Johnson and Adrian Clayborn all former fist rounders.   It’s possible when a few of them don’t develop like they should  

So, how many first rounders would that make on our defense.   Garrett.  Ward,  the three above...... Richardson,  not sure about Vernon.

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

57 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

So, how many first rounders would that make on our defense.   Garrett.  Ward,  the three above...... Richardson,  not sure about Vernon.

Karl Joseph as well 

[SdBacker80]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

So, how many first rounders would that make on our defense.   Garrett.  Ward,  the three above...... Richardson,  not sure about Vernon.

Other notables...Vernon 3rd rounder, Larry O 3rd, Taki Taki 3rd, Mack 5th, Greedy 2nd, Sendejo Undrafted.

 

[Flugel]

On 4/16/2020 at 2:53 PM, Tour2ma said:

Fuck your useless thread and for God's sake... learn how to change the size of the images you copy into your posts.

 

At least fuckin' DraftTek didn't have a fuckin' photo of the fuckin #395th player in the fucking draft...

This is my new abdominal workout.   I read it once a day; and hit the deck LMAO to get the 2 minute abs I need.  Best of all?  Tour did all the work!

[Flugel]

On 4/16/2020 at 12:57 PM, The Gipper said:

There is already a Draft Trade thread on here. Merge maybe.  

Or..... You could apply such an idea when you're starting brand new threads for Trivia every day.  For example,  you could title it "Daily Trivia" and keep just 1 thread going so it's not competing with different draft topics and rumors surfacing.   You've been here long enough to know this is the time of year people want to talk about the draft.  You also know the more appropriate time for trivia is throughout the doldrums of summer when there's not as many current events to talk about.

Not sure you aware of this or you simply don't care any more; but you come across like you want to be the only one in here starting threads whether I'm being fair to you or not.   Subject headings are actually a courtesy for us to choose which topics we want to participate in.   You don't have to participate in topics you look down your nose at. I'm sure the people that started those topics will appreciate they don't have to argue with you about it; or watch you jump in to change the discussion to something YOU prefer. Then you argue with 1 or 2 guys for the next 5-15 pages until any/all other interest in that person's thread has been suffocated.   That's you in nobody else matters mode. For some reason, it's getting a lot more frequent lately.  Is that really the way you want to be perceived in here?  

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

Or..... You could apply such an idea when you're starting brand new threads for Trivia every day.  For example,  you could title it "Daily Trivia" and keep just 1 thread going so it's not competing with different draft topics and rumors surfacing.   You've been here long enough to know this is the time of year people want to talk about the draft.  You also know the more appropriate time for trivia is throughout the doldrums of summer when there's not as many current events to talk about.

Uh...Uhm, in case you hadn't noticed,  all the trivia threads ARE being merged into a single thread after a day. Only that days thread is separate.  And that is done as a courtesy in order to not get that new question intertwined with other questions.  And also,  all the recent threads have been Draft related threads.....and, in my experience.....draft time is the time when people are MOST interested in this type of Trivia.  That and actually during the season.

Not sure you aware of this or you simply don't care any more; but you come across like you want to be the only one in here starting threads whether I'm being fair to you or not.

Don't know how you get that.  I start threads here and there based on subjects that interest me.  I have no control over who else starts other threads, or their subjects, or how many they start.   If you want to start a dozen threads...be my guest. 

  Subject headings are actually a courtesy for us to choose which topics we want to participate in.   You don't have to participate in topics you look down your nose at. I'm sure the people that started those topics will appreciate they don't have to argue with you about it; or watch you jump in to change the discussion to something YOU prefer.

I actually read every thread. I give each poster the courtesy of paying attention to what they have posted.  Occasionally I skim over some posts, and oftentimes I have nothing to contribute but don't. 

Then you argue with 1 or 2 guys

....or,  err they argue with me. Like you seem to be doing here.  No one forces you to argue with me, to perpetuate these things.  But, if you expect me to not countermand whatever argument you make, if I feel the necessity then you don't understand human nature. (If you hadn't brought this up, it would have gone no further)

for the next 5-15 pages until any/all other interest in that person's thread has been suffocated.   That's you in nobody else matters mode. For some reason, it's getting a lot more frequent lately.  Is that really the way you want to be perceived in here?  

What I perceived is that the mods apparently agreed with me that we don't need  a half dozen  uniform threads, as they have in fact merged them into one. 

 

[darren15]

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2020/04/18/browns-2020-nfl-draft-wirfs-cleveland-logan-wilson/

 

7 predictions on what we might do here

[Flugel]

4 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

 

Didn't I reply to you because you were whining that the thread we're in right now should have been merged?  

The tense "ARE being merged" by you today doesn't mean they were merged on Monday. Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday before the weekend.  It still doesn't excuse you for not knowing better but nice try!  That means the moderators working on volunteer pay had to do something you weren't courteous enough to handle yourself.  They're not happy with you at all about that - I promise!  Again, 1 thread called Daily Trivia works nice especially when it's not the doldrums of summer.  No need for you to re-clarify what you are already missing by a mile. 

I gave you the reasons a lot of people in here have lost patience with you in my previous reply.  There's nothing else to debate.

 

[calfoxwc]

35 minutes ago, darren15 said:

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2020/04/18/browns-2020-nfl-draft-wirfs-cleveland-logan-wilson/

 

7 predictions on what we might do here

I disagree with him on Wirfs. NFL.Com has him rated as a RT or OG. Thomas is the pure LT.

and, FINALLY !

   Somebody in the sports writing article world is talking about my draft pick - Logan Wilson. I think he's a third round pick for the Browns - he is a football player. He's a linebacker I'd love to see with the Browns.

[The Gipper]

18 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Didn't I reply to you because you were whining that the thread we're in right now should have been merged?  

The tense "ARE being merged" by you today doesn't mean they were merged on Monday. Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday before the weekend. 

Actually, they are merged like EVERY day. 

It still doesn't excuse you for not knowing better but nice try!  That means the moderators working on volunteer pay had to do something you weren't courteous enough to handle yourself.  They're not happy with you at all about that - I promise!  Again, 1 thread called Daily Trivia works nice especially when it's not the doldrums of summer.  No need for you to re-clarify what you are already missing by a mile. 

Admittedly..it is the mods that are doing the merging.   But I have not heard them complain, have you?  No...and I am certain that if they did have an issue with it, they would have told me.  They have never been shy about doing so in the past about things.. If they are not happy about it, they have kept it a secret from me.   And, as I said, I do it the way I do it OUT of courtesy.  I  try to do this for the fun and entertainment of everyone who participates (and sure, for myself as well).  Why make that difficult and confusing by piling it all up on top of all the other, concluded questions. 

So....here is the solution, since it concerns you so much:      YOU take over doing your "Daily Trivia"  thread, and run it how you please...and you can consult Z or Larry or Mark on how they want it done so as to not have it take up their time. I would be glad to participate.  

I gave you the reasons a lot of people in here have lost patience with you in my previous reply.  There's nothing else to debate.

Well, even if there is, you just ran away from it.  So, why did you bother in the first place....and waste my time  and everyone else's with your complaints when no one else has a problem. As far as I know, everyone else that participates on here are adults, and don't need you to babysit for them. 

EVERY conversation on here is a two way street.  Maybe they could be impatient with the fact that you started this argument in the first place. 

 

 

[Flugel]

2 hours ago, darren15 said:

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2020/04/18/browns-2020-nfl-draft-wirfs-cleveland-logan-wilson/

 

7 predictions on what we might do here

Interesting!  These are the 7 thoughts/predictions from the author in Darren's link (worth reading especially considering the smoke screens and trades that will be happening in the week ahead):

1. Cleveland would love to trade back from #10

2. Wirfs is Cleveland's top rated OT

3. The idea of adding a veteran LT is still very much on the table

4. The Browns are more open to passing on OT at #10 than expected

5. The Browns are probably taking at least 1 WR on Friday

6. The team's love for OT Ezra Cleveland is real but it's also overblown.

7. The Browns will draft LB Logan Wilson and the $300 contribution from Calfox will be donated to a local charity

 

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

Interesting!  These are the 7 thoughts/predictions from the author in Darren's link (worth reading especially considering the smoke screens and trades that will be happening in the week ahead):

I know that the article may have answered some of these, but I have questions

1. Cleveland would love to trade back from #10

If they did so, what would we expect in return...and would they expect to get an acceptable RT

2. Wirfs is Cleveland's top rated OT

OK, but is it fair to say that if they move from #10 that they would not get him?  (also being mindful that he may not be there at #10 even. ...and he IS who I took for the Browns on our Board mock)

3. The idea of adding a veteran LT is still very much on the table

Peters?  (can we assume it would be someone they do not have to give up picks for...like Williams?)

4. The Browns are more open to passing on OT at #10 than expected

I have seen where most think there is a big dropoff after the top 4-5 guys that could/should go in first  half of round one.  Can they risk that?  And wouldn't they only risk that if one of those who are considered top 5....Simmons/Okuhda  are still on the board?

5. The Browns are probably taking at least 1 WR on Friday

Sure, in late rounds.   I took Elijah Lipscomb  from Vandy  (though I suspect there are a dozen others to consider in 5th/6th/7th to consider)

6. The team's love for OT Ezra Cleveland is real but it's also overblown.

By that I assume it means they may go for him...in like round 3 rather than round 2?

7. The Browns will draft LB Logan Wilson and the $300 contribution from Calfox will be donated to a local charity.

4th round?  If they don't get an ILB prior to that. 

 

 

[Flugel]

17 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Good questions you ask about the guy's predictions/thoughts.

1. Cleveland would love to trade back from #10

If they did so, what would we expect in return...and would they expect to get an acceptable RT - Gipper

An extra 1st round pick or a 2nd round pick hopefully?  I'm guessing you meant to say LT and I'm confident we can get an acceptable one. In saying that, we may be cutting it close for an immediate starter depending on how far back (which could also have us picking a BPA at another position). The next tier has Matt Peart at the top of it; but that may entice us to also add a FA like Jason Peters while Peart gets acquainted with his new position protecting the blindside of QB. One thing to consider here regarding Peart, it wasn't that long ago when we had an Undrafted FA (Harrison) from a small school exceeding some expectations early on before opponents went after his bad habits, limitations and vulnerabilities they found on film.   Peart is a much more promising prospect than that with a lot of upside if we go that route. - Me

2. Wirfs is Cleveland's top rated OT

OK, but is it fair to say that if they move from #10 that they would not get him?  (also being mindful that he may not be there at #10 even. ...and he IS who I took for the Browns on our Board mock) - Gipper

Here's the key with this potential smoke screen.  They were careful not to specify LT since he's played RT for all but 3 or 4 games as a 3 year starter (which included starting as a true freshman).  Looking at what we signed Conklin for to play RT - they don't want a RT early if at all with Hubbard still on board as the backup IMO.  What they do want is for teams slotted behind us to know Wirfs is our top rated OT. That could either be to hope it prevents those teams from trading up in front of us or to encourage them to trade up. Poker at it's best?    - Me

3. The idea of adding a veteran LT is still very much on the table

Peters?  (can we assume it would be someone they do not have to give up picks for...like Williams?) - Gipper

Yes (Yes) - Me

4. The Browns are more open to passing on OT at #10 than expected

I have seen where most think there is a big dropoff after the top 4-5 guys that could/should go in first  half of round one.  Can they risk that?  And wouldn't they only risk that if one of those who are considered top 5....Simmons/Okuhda  are still on the board? - Gipper

Keep in mind, 2 of those top 5 or so require moving from RT to LT.  That's probably going to include more learning curves and growing pains than some are anticipating.  Some scouts actually think it may be better to play Wirfs at RT or OG.  If they are accurate, wouldn't we be reaching for him at #10 overall especially if LT is the bare cupboard (top priority)?   At least the type of plan they'd have with a guy like Peart after round 1 would give people reasonable expectations in terms of when he'd be ready to start at his new position LT.  This would probably include a plan with a FA vet  like Peters (my guess is other teams are thinking about signing him too if the demand for immediate starters at LT exceeds the supply). 

I did a ton of drafts on that PFF simulator, Simmons never made it to #10 and Okudah often went before him.  That doesn't mean the draft will play out that way too.  FWIW, you should try that.  It takes a few times to get used to it but it's a fun.  I'll tell you what would tempt me on the BPA thing and it will NOT be popular at all in here - if a WR like Jerry Jeudy or CeeDee Lamb (former teammate of Baker's) or Justin Jefferson (VERY underrated 6'3" target with 18 TD receptions last year) lands on our doorstep.  The memories of OBJ blowing in opponents' ears after games "get me outta here" is hard to shake in terms of counting on him as our #1 for very much longer JMO.   An old coach used to tell us, this game has adversity and how we respond to it will define us. His favorite saying was "60 hitters - no quitters." Telling opponents you'd rather play for them is quitting on your teammates and nothing to take lightly.  Maybe I should have seen his lack of priority to come get on the same page with his new team/QB/playbook at the mini-camps/OTAs as more of a red flag than I did at the time.  If he doesn't want to be in Cleveland - he's not doing us any favors. - Me

5. The Browns are probably taking at least 1 WR on Friday.

Sure, in late rounds.   I took Elijah Lipscomb  from Vandy  (though I suspect there are a dozen others to consider in 5th/6th/7th to consider) - Gipper

Yeah, I liked what you did with that. But, if the guy specified at least 1 WR on Friday - he's talking rounds 2-3. - Me

6. The team's love for OT Ezra Cleveland is real but it's also overblown.

By that I assume it means they may go for him...in like round 3 rather than round 2? - Gipper

Something along that line in terms of priority level. I'd hate to see us trade up into round 1 for him and reduce our draft volume to do so.  I watched the film of him vrs FSU and got an awful first impression of him.  His good plays were more occasional than I would like for an alleged solution to our LT vacancy. He's no strong at all.  His pad height often forfeits the legs under him.  I could go on and on and on with what I found too inconsistent to get excited about.  While it was only 1 game, the bad habits didn't change from series to series. All that said, I'm just a fan that needs my day job.  After failing on Corbet with the first pick of round 2 - can we afford to flush another high pick (even via trade-back) down the toilet? 1 cycle we HAVE to break is our inability to draft a starter we consider a keeper. Bitonio is the only one we have.  Berry did a very good job in free agency and I've read that Callahan's input will be strongly considered so I think we can get the right fit/plan at LT once it all plays out.  - Me

7. The Browns will draft LB Logan Wilson and the $300 contribution from Calfox will be donated to a local charity.

4th round?  If they don't get an ILB prior to that. - Gipper

Gonna be honest - I don't know enough about him to be fair.  Athlon's draft guide has him as their 7th ranked ILB while Lindy's lists him as their 5th highest rated ILB.  1 thing I can say heading into the draft is the only position on the LB Corp that has a penciled in starter right now is FA MLB (B.J. Goodson). Understanding we have 2 vacancies at OLB and there's only so many rounds that provide immediate starters. I'm very interested in seeing what we do with those opportunities... - Me

Those are good questions so

[The Gipper]

4 hours ago, Flugel said:

Those are good questions so

Couple of notes:

A. Yes I meant LT rather than RT.......but, I guess a question is:   how fungible, really is the tackle position.   For many a long year it was presumed that there was LT talent and RT talent, and never the twain shall meet.     But now, seemingly, that may not be the case.  HOw interchangeable have the two positions become....and are there people who are still strictly either  LT or RT talent, and are there others that can  be bisexual....and play on either side?

B.  Are you not putting Mack Wilson in as a starter, in ink, or are you just writing him in , in pencil.  What kind of defensive scheme do we think the Browns employ?  3-4/4-3 or something else.   On another thread, Woody claims that  LBs are no longer important players  on defense (though the stats are that LBs last were held  17 of the top 20  "tackles made" spots in the league).  Tour seemingly went along with him, though I think he took that tact just in order to be contrarian toward me.   What do you think about all that?   Personally I think we need a guy early on in the draft...either 2d or 3rd round...assuming they go tackle in round 1.   Could depend on which LB or safety is there at #41. Of course they could fake us both out. 

C. I don't think I will get into the draft sim game.  I spent a lot of time working on our board mock, and the real draft is just days away, so I probably won't play. 

[Unsympathetic]

No deal, no trade. The next time Browns "hit" on any extra picks from a trade down.. will be the first.

Need hits rather than random collections of picks.

The extra picks are useful in Madden -- not in the real world.

This ezra cleveland imposter looks more like Tony Mandarich instead of the Joe Thomas we need.

[calfoxwc]

I like a good trade down - it can reap tremendous rewards.

But, when you draft stupidly, it's not worth it. That has been the Browns' problem.

If Thomas, Simmons, or Jones are there, I think I would stay and pick one.

That's just me - but if I "knew" a LT would be just as good as Jones...

I could trade down and pick that LT AND get another first round pick.

   Meanwhile, I wonder...the Browns have signed two safeties - would that mean they

would take a safety later on, past the second round now?

If the Browns pick brilliantly - draft football players instead of combine guys who don't love the game...

trading down could really reap huge rewards.

   I swear I'd like to put our TV out on the deck and watch in around the fire. This is going to be FUN.

[Icecube]

On 4/16/2020 at 2:18 PM, Louisville Slugger said:

I'm more in favor of trading up than trading back. We HAVE to land starting LT and everybody knows it. I doubt Thomas is there at 10 regardless of what the experts say. Hes a proven LT and I bet hes the first one off the board. If he isn't doesnt land in striking distance than I would probably stand pat at 10 and take Jones. No reason to get cute.

As you say, no reason to get cute. If Thomas is there at 10, take him and call it a night: biggest need filled with a blue chip player. What else can you ask for? 

[Dutch Oven]

2 hours ago, Unsympathetic said:

No deal, no trade. The next time Browns "hit" on any extra picks from a trade down.. will be the first.

Need hits rather than random collections of picks.

The extra picks are useful in Madden -- not in the real world.

This ezra cleveland imposter looks more like Tony Mandarich instead of the Joe Thomas we need.

The Browns trading down and then taking the 6th-8th best OT would be the ultimate ode to Sashi from his former underlings... 

[Tour2ma]

Yes... by all means let's let history dictate all our draft day moves because it's so determinative.

[Dutch Oven]

26 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Yes... by all means let's let history dictate all our draft day moves because it's so determinative.

Don't worry Tour, the Browns won't do this, obviously. 

If they had let history be their guide, they would have never decided to go with The Process, Part Deux. 

[Dutch Oven]

2 hours ago, Icecube said:

As you say, no reason to get cute. If Thomas is there at 10, take him and call it a night: biggest need filled with a blue chip player. What else can you ask for? 

Nothing. It's gotta be the choice. 

[Unsympathetic]

While we're speculating, I wouldn't mind giving our second to NYJ in a swap for jamal adams who has been on the chopping block there for the last 2 years. 

What's that? They might not accept?  In my fantasy world which is no less plausible than everything else on this thread, the Jets are the next destination for self-appointed genius Bill O'Brien, who accepts all trades if he's losing them.

[Tour2ma]

2 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Don't worry Tour, the Browns won't do this, obviously. 

If they had let history be their guide, they would have never decided to go with The Process, Part Deux. 

And yet you are still here...

[Dutch Oven]

48 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

And yet you are still here...

And why wouldn't I be? 

[Tour2ma]

4 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

And why wouldn't I be? 

Other places to spread your special brand of sunshine?

 

Here's an article for you... https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/04/money-time-for-moneyball-can-analytics-finally-work-for-the-cleveland-browns.html

Quote

The temptation will be to trade down in the draft. DePodesta said the team was open to dealing up or down, but admitted, “We do have a philosophy, that more picks is better.”

 

[Flugel]

8 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Other places to spread your special brand of sunshine?

 

Here's an article for you... https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/04/money-time-for-moneyball-can-analytics-finally-work-for-the-cleveland-browns.html

 

Another great article from Pluto says Flugel from Mars...