Left Tackle - Flugel Faves and Hopefuls

[Tour2ma]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

If you don't think that Andrew Berry would be beyond trading up for something he really wants...it is YOU who are missing the obvious...about that guy.  Don't think it will happen,  but with Berry...I would not put it past him. 

And that Ladies and Gentlemen is the art of taking both sides of an argument so you are never wrong...

 

Point was, Gip that you said absolutely nothing in the Capt. Obvious inducing post and then followed it up with another.

Care to go for three in a row?

[The Gipper]

15 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

And that Ladies and Gentlemen is the art of taking both sides of an argument so you are never wrong...

 

Point was, Gip that you said absolutely nothing in the Capt. Obvious inducing post and then followed it up with another.

Care to go for three in a row?

Is your head really shaped like a triangle....since that pin at the top is so very sharp.  

I will explain it to you like you are a 4 year old...which, mentally, is about right.:

Both statements are perfectly accurate:   I doubt that the Browns will trade up....because they do not have the ammunition I believe to afford to be able to move up....but....despite his demeanor and background, and apparent conservative nature....I would not necessarily put it past Andrew Berry to be  a bit of a gambler and take that risk.   

You know, they have this place called Las Vegas, where they do a lot of gambling...including on sports.  They have these things called "Odds"....and for this proposition they would set odds.  On this I suspect that the odds would be like 9-1 against the Browns making a trade....but there is always that one out of 10 chance.  So....the explanation for your 4 year old intellect is:  while it is unlikely...there is still that  1 in 10 chance of it happening, so you cannot "put it past"  it happening.    

[Tour2ma]

I'll take that as a "yes".

[The Gipper]

10 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

I'll take that as a "yes".

Yes....to the question:  are you using  a knowledge and  understanding of history here?   As  a predictability factor:    If the 2007 NY Giants played the  2007 New England Patriots  10 times, the Pats likely win 9 of those games.....   But "don't put it past the Giants to pull it out"   And lo and behold  when the actual game occurred...that  crapshoot rolled a 7.   

Doesn't one of your "draft sims"  ever simulate the possibility of trades happening?  If so, probably in 9 out of 10, they simulate no trade action by the Browns......but....there may be that one time where.....lo and behold, you wouldn't put it past it to see the Browns make a trade. 

[Tour2ma]

That's 4...

Can he string 5?

[Dutch Oven]

I love lamp. 

[Flugel]

11 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Is your head really shaped like a triangle....since that pin at the top is so very sharp.  

I will explain it to you like you are a 4 year old...which, mentally, is about right.:

Are you saying you haven't started acting like a 4 year old yet?    

[The Gipper]

Just now, Flugel said:

Are you saying you haven't started acting like a 4 year old yet?    

Yes I am saying that I’m acting like an adult contrarily 

[Flugel]

2 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Yes I am saying that I’m acting like an adult contrarily 

Let me know when you have finally convinced yourself of that. 

The stuff I cut and pasted from you on my previous reply slam dunks otherwise.  More specifically, you're not arguing with me - you're arguing with yourself.  

[The Gipper]

Just now, Flugel said:

Let me know when you have finally convinced yourself of that. 

I just did. 

The stuff I cut and pasted from you on my previous reply slam dunks otherwise. (let us know when you have deluded yourself of that)  More specifically, you're not arguing with me - you're arguing with yourself.  

If you  didn't want to engage in an argument with me....why then did you bother to make this post that was argumentative?   Hello!

[Tour2ma]

Blew thru 5 and 6... albeit with a little goose from Flugs (well done, sir)... working on 7.

[The Gipper]

56 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Blew thru 5 and 6... albeit with a little goose from Flugs (well done, sir)... working on 7.

Let's see...you are counting the number of  pancakes you ate this morning?  You pancake eating motherfucker.  

[The Gipper]

Back to the thread....which can be summarized in two sentences:       Which Left Tackle should we all want the Browns to draft?

The one that the Browns scouting department thinks is best that is available  when their turn comes.  

[SdBacker80]

26 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Back to the thread....which can be summarized in two sentences:       Which Left Tackle should we all want the Browns to draft?

The one that the Browns scouting department thinks is best that is available  when their turn comes.  

We are all making too many assumptions that our scouting department likes all of the top 5 tackle prospects: Wirfs, Thomas, Wills, Becton, Jones (consensus top 5).  I see these mock drafts from experts with comments like the Browns take the 3rd or 4th best available tackle. 
 

We may only want Thomas or Jones and pass on the other three if available at 10.   I would not be surprised if we like 2/3 of the above and if they aren’t available we pass on the others and take Best Available of the defensive side of the ball.

The Backup plan could be I guy we’ve identified later in the draft or Trent Williams.  There is some nice depth at the tackle spot in this draft- Steele from TTU. 
 

the other plausible solution is to trade up for the guy they want.  I don’t see any of these tackles as “elite” but who knows. 

I like Jones from UH and Thomas from UGA in that order.   I’m not crazy about Austin Jackson.  Becton and Wirfs seem like awkward fits.  

[calfoxwc]

Andrew Thomas is the starter choice of the choices at left tackle, I think.

The season before, Jones was really raw compared - but improved dramatically last season.

They both love the game, are quick and very strong, excellent character, play with a mean streak...and are very, very SMART.

My impression is, Jones needs a good bit? more coaching up, Thomas not as much. We need a starter. Either of these two would be a great thing in fixing our offensive LT position.

[Flugel]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

If you  didn't want to engage in an argument with me....why then did you bother to make this post that was argumentative?   Hello!

Who said I didn't want to?  I didn't need to.  You were already arguing with yourself.  It would have been rude to interrupt you vrs you.

While I appreciate you trying to give me all the credit for being argumentative, the inventory clearly shows you arguing with the most people (including yourself).  

 

[The Gipper]

14 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Who said I didn't want to?  I didn't need to.  You were already arguing with yourself.  It would have been rude to interrupt you vrs you.

While I appreciate you trying to give me all the credit for being argumentative, the inventory clearly shows you arguing with the most people (including yourself).  

 

But, if that is the way you felt... clearly...you DID interrupt.Why did you feel the need to pile on where it seemed that there was something you wanted to move away from?   Seems to me that the thread has move past all that/you.    But, we will give you another chance:   What move do you think the Browns will make there at LT (not what you would like...but what you think they will do).  

[Flugel]

19 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

We are all making too many assumptions that our scouting department likes all of the top 5 tackle prospects: Wirfs, Thomas, Wills, Becton, Jones (consensus top 5).  I see these mock drafts from experts with comments like the Browns take the 3rd or 4th best available tackle.

We may only want Thomas or Jones and pass on the other three if available at 10.   I would not be surprised if we like 2/3 of the above and if they aren’t available we pass on the others and take Best Available of the defensive side of the ball.

Good points and thank you! The main reason I started this thread was to have some fun with a pre-draft discussion about favorite LT prospects for such a huge need at #10 overall. Part of that was to dig in and familiarize ourselves (as fans) with what is available, where they're projected and do we have a shot at them.  That said, I honestly don't have any idea about what guys our scouting department/Callahan/FO like the most or who will still be available for us at #10 (and if those that are still available would prevent them from picking BPA at another position).  The reason people on this board always like to do the mock drafts isn't really about knowing who our FO is going to select as much as it is about the fun of anticipating who we think/hope they may be interested in.  Same intention here with this thread. 

I don't know if this happens with others here; but my mind keeps changing on what I'd like us to do at #10 overall (especially if there's an early run on LTs that takes 3 or 4 off the board).  One guy that's really grown on me if we go BPA is OLB Isaiah Simmons - especially with that being a huge need as well.  What jumps out at me is how awesome this guy is against the pass whether he's in coverage or blitzing.  He has 19 pass breakups in 3 years.  In 2019, he had 16 tackles for a loss, 8 sacks, 5 QB hurries, 3 INTs, 7 pass breakups and 102 tackles.  Looking at this 6'4" prospect with great speed and ideal instincts - he also has long arms that make him even tougher for passers to beat.  Unfortunately, he'll probably be gone before #10 overall too. 

The toughest thing for me as a fan to figure out is when the run on QBs will start and how many will go before #10. All this being said, I wouldn't rule out our FO being interested in a trade-up or trade-down in round 1.  Stay tuned...

[Tour2ma]

21 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

The Backup plan could be I guy we’ve identified later in the draft or Trent Williams.

Or the biggest band-aid in the box... Jason Peters. He'll buy you a year with no long-term cap implications.

[Tour2ma]

21 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

I don’t see any of these tackles as “elite” but who knows. 

Agree... which raises some really interesting what-if scenarios should one of the two or three elite players in this draft fall to (or towards) us.

[Tour2ma]

19 hours ago, Flugel said:

Good points and thank you!

Not to mention as close to a concession by Gipper as I've ever seen...

Maybe he's seen the light?

[SdBacker80]

25 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Agree... which raises some really interesting what-if scenarios should one of the two or three elite players in this draft fall to (or towards) us.

Okudah could be the player in this draft.  He’s one of best I’ve seen at OSU.  I know we’ve invested some high picks at the position.  Thinking down the road - are you giving the massive deal to Garrett or Ward?  It may come to that. Okudah is a better player and two years further from a bigger contract. If the Lions are shopping it I’m not saying go up but if there are teams moving up to take a QB or Tackle or Simmons and Okudah drops a little more- I’m thinking about it. 

Simmons or Brown?  I group them with a few of these tackles as Good prospects. I’m not going up to get either and quite honestly I’d take Jones and Thomas over both.

We could have some really good problems if Tua falls toward us or a couple teams think a guy like Love is the next Mahomes. 

Overall, I don’t see this as a top heavy draft just a few elite guys but there are some really intriguing prospects in the middle that many analysts aren’t giving credit 

[SdBacker80]

29 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Or the biggest band-aid in the box... Jason Peters. He'll buy you a year with no long-term cap implications.

I thought he struggled to stay healthy but he’s produced 16, 14 13 start seasons consistently over the past 7 years.  He had one year where he started 7 games.  He’s not a bad option if we can’t find our guy at LT

[The Gipper]

42 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Not to mention as close to a concession by Gipper as I've ever seen...

Maybe he's seen the light?

Concession to what?  To the fact that  I would rather talk about football than to have to deal with your stalking me , perv.  Aqualung.

[Flugel]

21 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

Okudah could be the player in this draft.  He’s one of best I’ve seen at OSU.  I know we’ve invested some high picks at the position.  Thinking down the road - are you giving the massive deal to Garrett or Ward?  It may come to that. Okudah is a better player and two years further from a bigger contract. If the Lions are shopping it I’m not saying go up but if there are teams moving up to take a QB or Tackle or Simmons and Okudah drops a little more- I’m thinking about it. 

Simmons or Brown?  I group them with a few of these tackles as Good prospects. I’m not going up to get either and quite honestly I’d take Jones and Thomas over both.

As incredible as Okudah is -  we have 2 first round picks at Corner (Ward at #4 overall and FA Kevin Johnson), 1 second round pick (Greedy Williams), and Terrence Mitchell. 

What we don't have, aside from Left Tackle, right now?  An OLB for a defense that needs to start 2 of them with only the draft left to address it. Everything Isaiah Simmons excels at - is exactly what NFL Teams are looking for from an OLB to match up in a passing era.  Simmons is GREAT against the pass via blitz or in coverage.  In 2019, he had 8 sacks,  5 QB hurries, 16 Tackles for loss, 7 pass breakups, 3 INTs and 102 tackles that earned him the Butkus Award as the nation's top linebacker.  Aside from his ideal 1st step instinct, he's got the long arms that extend his pass breakup radius and the quicks/speed to run with RBs/TEs in coverage.  Like Okudah, he is also the best guy at his position (OLBer) that would have me very comfortable with Cleveland drafting him if the top 2 or 3 Left Tackles are off the board.

If I had to choose between Simmons and Thomas,  I'd take Thomas.   He plays a very important position we need to find an elite player to fill.  That being the case, I made this thread about the position and listed him as my favorite choice as a fan.   If both are gone as well as another top tackle or 2 - #10 overall has us in a good position to trade-back with 1 of the other teams that need a LT (Tampa - worrying about the Jets in front of them but no longer needing to worry about us) or a QB (Bill Belicheck usually has a comfortable draft volume where a QB could convince him to part with picks).  It's gonna be interesting to see what unfolds...

 

[calfoxwc]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

As incredible as Okudah is -  we have 2 first round picks at Corner (Ward at #4 overall and FA Kevin Johnson), 1 second round pick (Greedy Williams), and Terrence Mitchell. 

What we don't have, aside from Left Tackle, right now?  An OLB for a defense that needs to start 2 of them with only the draft left to address it. Everything Isaiah Simmons excels at - is exactly what NFL Teams are looking for from an OLB to match up in a passing era.  Simmons is GREAT against the pass via blitz or in coverage.  In 2019, he had 8 sacks,  5 QB hurries, 16 Tackles for loss, 7 pass breakups, 3 INTs and 102 tackles that earned him the Butkus Award as the nation's top linebacker.  Aside from his ideal 1st step instinct, he's got the long arms that extend his pass breakup radius and the quicks/speed to run with RBs/TEs in coverage.  Like Okudah, he is also the best guy at his position (OLBer) that would have me very comfortable with Cleveland drafting him if the top 2 or 3 Left Tackles are off the board.

If I had to choose between Simmons and Thomas,  I'd take Thomas.   He plays a very important position we need to find an elite player to fill.  That being the case, I made this thread about the position and listed him as my favorite choice as a fan.   If both are gone as well as another top tackle or 2 - #10 overall has us in a good position to trade-back with 1 of the other teams that need a LT (Tampa - worrying about the Jets in front of them but no longer needing to worry about us) or a QB (Bill Belicheck usually has a comfortable draft volume where a QB could convince him to part with picks).  It's gonna be interesting to see what unfolds...

 

  That is a huge question. Isaiah Simmons or a LT... Thomas vs Simmons...that is really tough. Maybe there isn't any other lb like Simmons later, but a LT that could develop into a terrific one, while being able to start and be ready by the regular season. I'd be fascinated to know what the Browns staff would have done, after the draft is over. 

    If Thomas is there... we could pick my lb in the third? round - Logan Wilson. But Wilson isn't Simmons.

Or, we take Simmons, and take.... Ben Bartch OLT , third round? Without individual workouts, it's a tough call.

I mention third round, because I'd have to go safety - I don't believe Dugger or Tiam's Chinn will last til the Browns pick in the third.

This draft is going to be amazing.

[The Gipper]

2 hours ago, Flugel said:

As incredible as Okudah is -  we have 2 first round picks at Corner (Ward at #4 overall and FA Kevin Johnson), 1 second round pick (Greedy Williams), and Terrence Mitchell. 

What we don't have, aside from Left Tackle, right now?  An OLB for a defense that needs to start 2 of them with only the draft left to address it. Everything Isaiah Simmons excels at - is exactly what NFL Teams are looking for from an OLB to match up in a passing era.  Simmons is GREAT against the pass via blitz or in coverage.  In 2019, he had 8 sacks,  5 QB hurries, 16 Tackles for loss, 7 pass breakups, 3 INTs and 102 tackles that earned him the Butkus Award as the nation's top linebacker.  Aside from his ideal 1st step instinct, he's got the long arms that extend his pass breakup radius and the quicks/speed to run with RBs/TEs in coverage.  Like Okudah, he is also the best guy at his position (OLBer) that would have me very comfortable with Cleveland drafting him if the top 2 or 3 Left Tackles are off the board.

If I had to choose between Simmons and Thomas,  I'd take Thomas.   He plays a very important position we need to find an elite player to fill.  That being the case, I made this thread about the position and listed him as my favorite choice as a fan.   If both are gone as well as another top tackle or 2 - #10 overall has us in a good position to trade-back with 1 of the other teams that need a LT (Tampa - worrying about the Jets in front of them but no longer needing to worry about us) or a QB (Bill Belicheck usually has a comfortable draft volume where a QB could convince him to part with picks).  It's gonna be interesting to see what unfolds...

 

If, for some reason it should come to pass that some other player besides a LT  should be taken by the Browns because that guy seems just too good to pass up.(like maybe Simmons)......what do you all  think about the guys that may still be available in Round 2 with our #41 pick.

Names like  Isaiah Wilson Ga.  Austin Jackson USC,  Ezra Cleveland  Boise St.?    Would any of them suffice?

[SdBacker80]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

If, for some reason it should come to pass that some other player besides a LT  should be taken by the Browns because that guy seems just too good to pass up.(like maybe Simmons)......what do you all  think about the guys that may still be available in Round 2 with our #41 pick.

Names like  Isaiah Wilson Ga.  Austin Jackson USC,  Ezra Cleveland  Boise St.?    Would any of them suffice?

I’m not too crazy about Austin Jackson.  I watched Utah, UW and Iowa games he doesn’t stand out to me at all.  He stood out negatively in the Iowa Epenesa abused him.

3 hours ago, Flugel said:

As incredible as Okudah is -  we have 2 first round picks at Corner (Ward at #4 overall and FA Kevin Johnson), 1 second round pick (Greedy Williams), and Terrence Mitchell. 

What we don't have, aside from Left Tackle, right now?  An OLB for a defense that needs to start 2 of them with only the draft left to address it. Everything Isaiah Simmons excels at - is exactly what NFL Teams are looking for from an OLB to match up in a passing era.  Simmons is GREAT against the pass via blitz or in coverage.  In 2019, he had 8 sacks,  5 QB hurries, 16 Tackles for loss, 7 pass breakups, 3 INTs and 102 tackles that earned him the Butkus Award as the nation's top linebacker.  Aside from his ideal 1st step instinct, he's got the long arms that extend his pass breakup radius and the quicks/speed to run with RBs/TEs in coverage.  Like Okudah, he is also the best guy at his position (OLBer) that would have me very comfortable with Cleveland drafting him if the top 2 or 3 Left Tackles are off the board.

If I had to choose between Simmons and Thomas,  I'd take Thomas.   He plays a very important position we need to find an elite player to fill.  That being the case, I made this thread about the position and listed him as my favorite choice as a fan.   If both are gone as well as another top tackle or 2 - #10 overall has us in a good position to trade-back with 1 of the other teams that need a LT (Tampa - worrying about the Jets in front of them but no longer needing to worry about us) or a QB (Bill Belicheck usually has a comfortable draft volume where a QB could convince him to part with picks).  It's gonna be interesting to see what unfolds...

 

I explained my rationale behind Okudah IF he falls to a spot where we don’t have to mortgage our future to get him.  
 

When Baker returns to 2018 form (fingers crossed) And gets paid his next contract and Myles gets paid how can we afford Denzel Ward?  And Do we want pay him???

Okudah can be on a Rookie deal for the next at least the next three/four years.  He’s better than Ward too.

I’m saying all this because the tackles, Simmons, Brown to me are good prospects probably not Top 10 guys just my opinion.

Burrow and Tua scream out at me.  Scared to death by Tua’s injuries though and Young and Okudah AFTER these four you could be at 6 or #21 you getting a good player potentially probably not elite.    Jeudy could emerge above That good player label- can’t deny his production 

[tiamat63]

5 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

I’m not too crazy about Austin Jackson.  I watched Utah, UW and Iowa games he doesn’t stand out to me at all.  He stood out negatively in the Iowa Epenesa abused him.

I explained my rationale behind Okudah IF he falls to a spot where we don’t have to mortgage our future to get him.  
 

When Baker returns to 2018 form (fingers crossed) And gets paid his next contract and Myles gets paid how can we afford Denzel Ward?  And Do we want pay him???

Okudah can be on a Rookie deal for the next at least the next three/four years.  He’s better than Ward too.

I’m saying all this because the tackles, Simmons, Brown to me are good prospects probably not Top 10 guys just my opinion.

Burrow and Tua scream out at me.  Scared to death by Tua’s injuries though and Young and Okudah AFTER these four you could be at 6 or #21 you getting a good player potentially probably not elite.    Jeudy could emerge above That good player label- can’t deny his production 

Ward went to a pro-bowl is rookie year. I like Okudah, but there needs to be a certain amount of disclaimer to your presumption.

[SdBacker80]

51 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Ward went to a pro-bowl is rookie year. I like Okudah, but there needs to be a certain amount of disclaimer to your presumption.

Nothing wrong with Ward I even suggest he’s probably headed for a massive deal.  Can we pay him that deal?

And He appeared better in 2018 than 2019. 
 

Okudah has been nothing but fabulous at OSU when he took over for Ward against USC in Cotton Bowl when Ward decided to sit it out.  
 

Do you like Steak or Lobster?  
 

but it could come down to Okudah for 4 years or Ward 2 years