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tiamat63

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I don't believe this has been posted elsewhere....?

Sure... I've been paying for it for a few years now and I may be a touch bitter that the NFL is allowing access with no charge.   But it is what it is.    So if you kids want to brush up on your film study and see first hand where I watch things to help form the bulk of my football related opinions, begin your journey at the link below my friends.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001106855/article/nfl-offers-fans-free-access-to-nfl-game-pass

 

 

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1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

I don't believe this has been posted elsewhere....?

Sure... I've been paying for it for a few years now and I may be a touch bitter that the NFL is allowing access with no charge.   But it is what it is.    So if you kids want to brush up on your film study and see first hand where I watch things to help form the bulk of my football related opinions, begin your journey at the link below my friends.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001106855/article/nfl-offers-fans-free-access-to-nfl-game-pass

It was the same feeling a lot of the long time Browns PSL holders felt when Cleveland  eliminated them for  new Season ticket holders.  

This isn't  limited to the  NFL, I've  seen a lot of websites giving  access now to  material  that you usually have to play for.

We may well be limited to  watching last years games, depends on how long the health  experts want to  keep things  shut down.  Just saw the NCAA took a $800 million hit canceling the  BB tournament. On a world perspective,  the NFL is small potatoes compared to that event coming up in July- the Summer Olympics. Stay tuned on that one.

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That's kind of cool -plus- a way to keep the fans into football.........

March 18, 2020,.  

Starting today, the NFL will offer complimentary access to NFL Game Pass, providing fans the opportunity to relive incredible NFL games and moments from seasons past including Tom Brady's multiple Super Bowl victories with the New England Patriots, Peyton Manning's single season record of 55 touchdown passes as a Denver Bronco in 2013, Odell Beckham Jr.'s impossible one handed catch in 2014, and much more.

A digital product available across multiple platforms and devices, NFL Game Pass offers an extensive library of football programming for fans. This includes access to past regular and postseason NFL games, previous seasons of award-winning NFL Films series such as Hard Knocks and A Football Life, and exclusive NFL Game Pass Film Sessions with some of the league's star players and coaches.

Also starting today, NFL digital platforms will offer fans full game encores each day across NFL.com, the NFL app and NFL's official YouTube channel. These encores will feature signature wins from all 32 teams.......... continued.........

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Sweet...

2ndary play will still mystify me tho... ;)

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These are some of the things you see when you take the time to.    Really highlights our biggest issues last coaching staff wise...

- attention to detail on route combinations to attack certain coverages.

 Our inability to hold up on the edges was piss poor all season long.    Ignoring that for a moment for the sake of looking at play design,  It's no secret and was no secret 7 months ago that the Niners were/are a heavy zone defense on the backend revolving around a cover 3 shell with its various tweaks.   This was to serve two purposes.   First - it was built on a similar foundation by their DC (Saleh) who imported his defense from the Seahawks.  Second - it matched quite seamlessly with their personnel.    The 'Niners really don't have any one single DB who strikes fear into QB's.   Yes, I even mean Sherman now.     But this really highlights our departed coaching staffs lack of focus on working to exploit the little details of even the seemingly best defenses.       Anyway, back to the Niners and their zone.

 

3rd and 13 -  Browns are in 10 personnel with the formation strength to the field.   OBJ #1 and Jarvis at the #3.     The nice thing about having 2 receivers that defenses respect, is that one of them will be getting the additional attention immediately if you have them aligned in spots that usually threaten a defenses weaker links.   That typically means linebackers and safety play.   What we got seemingly most of the season was a "hodge podge" of designs.   

 

512240580_10personnelpresnapvsNIners.thumb.png.f3215df9009c32887ef0ab2f27f793dd.png    

 

What we got was a hitch/under and a clearout from the #2.  The Hitch is meant to hold the safety dropping to the middle and possibly the backer if he isn't disciplined.   The #2 pressing vertical is meant to draw the attention of any "cloud" defender.      As follows....  Forgive the quick work in MS Paint.  I'm not here to impress you guys.  1410323989_hitchunderclear.thumb.jpg.04e09b3e46cb3521c72ddc5fe5fc2f5b.jpg

 

The problem with that shit is the zone drop for the underneath defenders San Fran likes.    Even if protection held up, the hitch wasn't going to be there. And the square in sure as shit wasn't going to be there because the linebacker knows he has help over the top of Landry so he's going to continue to expanding outside with depth and looking for anything breaking to the positive side of the field (OBJ)  Which is exactly what he does shown here...

 

4220160_Backercheckingforunder.thumb.png.8b7d7168c6886047cca5e09e01daa4d7.png

 

 

The only way to combat this look is either having Landry as the #3 round his route off and carry it across the field, which he does when Baker starts his scramble drills.    Or could have happened with a better sight adjustment (lower percentage chance of happening/completed).   

-Or-  the Browns coaching staff could have made ready a simple adjustment knowing full well the Niners LOVE their zone and they LOVE being aggressive underneath.      Instead of taking advantage of that and running things to exploit cover 2 and certain cover 3 looks similar to what San Fran does, we got the above.  Something as simple as a little hitch-post would have gone a long way to destroying this look.

 

323701192_WouldbeHitch-Post.thumb.jpg.685361cc6673738d8a36593166272763.jpg

 

The safety over top of the #3 would have been unable to recover and Jimmy Ward...? I believe?  #20 was so busy getting depth that OBJ would have carried shallow across his face for a big gain.   It's just little shit like this that (now that I have some quarantine time to watch) really gets under my skin.   And keep in mind, I'm like 15% into the first few games of the season.  But so far, I haven't seen any plays that went back to a look I'm suggesting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Thanks... I know how much time a single post like that takes. One request.... please use a different color for the routes. We color blind members will thank you. If not for the dashes crossing the hash marks I might not have seen these.

 

I remember that play from a discussion months ago. That OBJ was the clear open target. The complicating factor was Baker getting flushed right taking his eyes and arm away from Odell, but that's only a factor if he waits until the play is at the stage in your 4th frame. The recognition that OBJ will be the open WR has to come no later than frame 3... and Baker was looking that way through a lane... and turned that throw down.

 

Pre-snap SF is in a 2-high look (a/k/a Tampa 2?), but given the very fast, very deep drop of the near-side CB, did it evolve into a Cover-3? Or was it 3-Qtr Zone with the predetermined man element up top in press coverage. (Examples of me loosely knowing some of the terms, but not being able to put them with the looks.)

 

Routes... where is the efficiency line between rigid route structures and trees. That is... how long do a QB and WR/Receiving Corps need to work together to have a high probability of seeing the same thing. Seems like the level of sympatico between Baker and Higgins or Landry would be far ahead of that between Baker and OBJ despite the latter's vet status.

Can you tell in film sessions whether or not route trees are being employed?

 

Not a 2ndary vs. route tree comment... Just pisses me off when OTs and even OGs are deemed to be on the LOS while a slot receiver lined up at the same depth is deemed to be off the LOS.

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22 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Thanks... I know how much time a single post like that takes. One request.... please use a different color for the routes. We color blind members will thank you. If not for the dashes crossing the hash marks I might not have seen these.

 

I remember that play from a discussion months ago. That OBJ was the clear open target. The complicating factor was Baker getting flushed right taking his eyes and arm away from Odell, but that's only a factor if he waits until the play is at the stage in your 4th frame. The recognition that OBJ will be the open WR has to come no later than frame 3... and Baker was looking that way through a lane... and turned that throw down.

 

Pre-snap SF is in a 2-high look (a/k/a Tampa 2?), but given the very fast, very deep drop of the near-side CB, did it evolve into a Cover-3? Or was it 3-Qtr Zone with the predetermined man element up top in press coverage. (Examples of me loosely knowing some of the terms, but not being able to put them with the looks.)

 

Routes... where is the efficiency line between rigid route structures and trees. That is... how long do a QB and WR/Receiving Corps need to work together to have a high probability of seeing the same thing. Seems like the level of sympatico between Baker and Higgins or Landry would be far ahead of that between Baker and OBJ despite the latter's vet status.

Can you tell in film sessions whether or not route trees are being employed?

 

Not a 2ndary vs. route tree comment... Just pisses me off when OTs and even OGs are deemed to be on the LOS while a slot receiver lined up at the same depth is deemed to be off the LOS.

- Will do on the color.  

- OBJ was the target, but given the type of cover 3 the Niners love to roll out, running the under from the field side #1 wasn't conducive to attacking coverage and if you take into account poor protection this time,  can take as long to develop as a post.   What really concerns me about Baker was that Landry broke open on the scramble drill and Baker never saw him.       We could have gone back to this look later and addressed protection formation wise or, with some preparation, attacked with similar combinations on earlier downs from play action.  That would have at least afforded our pass pro a better shot at keeping pressure immediately out of Bakers face.

- Combo coverage.  Boils down to a Cover 3 with a MEG call at the top.   

- There is no set amount of time QB's and WR's need before they begin seeing the same things.  But OBJ missing camp sure as hell doesn't help.

- Film reveals all. Just need to have the patience to put it together.  Route combinations and trees are no different.  

 

 

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7 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

- Will do on the color.  

- OBJ was the target, but given the type of cover 3 the Niners love to roll out, running the under from the field side #1 wasn't conducive to attacking coverage and if you take into account poor protection this time,  can take as long to develop as a post.   What really concerns me about Baker was that Landry broke open on the scramble drill and Baker never saw him.       We could have gone back to this look later and addressed protection formation wise or, with some preparation, attacked with similar combinations on earlier downs from play action.  That would have at least afforded our pass pro a better shot at keeping pressure immediately out of Bakers face.

- Combo coverage.  Boils down to a Cover 3 with a MEG call at the top.   

- There is no set amount of time QB's and WR's need before they begin seeing the same things.  But OBJ missing camp sure as hell doesn't help.

- Film reveals all. Just need to have the patience to put it together.  Route combinations and trees are no different.  

 

 

You have done a lot of scouting, why don't you get in on the Board draft with a couple of teams. 

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4 hours ago, tiamat63 said:
  1. - Will do on the color.  
  2. - the field side
  3. - Combo coverage.  Boils down to a Cover 3 with a MEG call at the top.   
  4. - Film reveals all. Just need to have the patience to put it together.  Route combinations and trees are no different.  
  1. Thanks.
  2. "field side" meaning "from the center of the field towards the outside (or boundary)?
  3. "MEG call"?
  4. OK... but how do I know which routes are trees and which are set? I mean once a WR (or TE) picks from a tree it looks like a set route?

Sorry, but trying to be sure my vocabulary is keeping up.

Also on trees... are they more likely to be incorporated into pass designs when there are fewer receivers on the field?

Thanks....

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Just now, Tour2ma said:
  1. Thanks.
  2. "field side" meaning "from the center of the field towards the outside (or boundary)?
  3. "MEG call"?
  4. OK... but how do I know which routes are trees and which are set? I mean once a WR (or TE) picks from a tree it looks like a set route?

Sorry, but trying to be sure my vocabulary is keeping up.

Also on trees... are they more likely to be incorporated into pass designs when there are fewer receivers on the field?

Thanks....

 

2 - route begins from the field (wide) side and breaks in.  That's a LOT of ground to cover.

3 - MEG.  Man Everywhere he Goes.  

4 - Route combinations are all devised and executed as concepts to exploit anticipated defenses, you already knew that.  Some teams, such as the Pats, simply utilize and master the concept itself regardless of personnel alignment.  Which means any routes the receiver runs in that particular concept, their TE's and Backs have to know as well.   That is where the notorious labels of the Pats offense being so formless and difficult to learn began.  In time the mastery comes along with developing variables to how they call it or how their receivers run the play.    I.E. vs varying route depths, play styles off DB's (bump, off, press) spot drop vs pattern zone or man coverage and making their adjustments vs certain coverages, leveraging the routes, etc etc.   Which the QB has to also process and trust they're in sync.        Many teams don't have such complexity and, short branch to go out on, I suspect the Browns are one of those teams.     So when plays are called for Cleveland, the amount of flexibility I think our receivers have to make sight adjustments is.... not much.      What you see is what you get with us, and there isn't a whole hell of a lot to read into.  

I don't know what you mean but trees being incorporated into pass designs? That's how designs are made lol.    But they're obviously much more distinguishable when fewer receivers are on the field.  

Literally replying when the notification from the other thread popped up.  Working on that one as well.  

 

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6 hours ago, The Gipper said:

You have done a lot of scouting, why don't you get in on the Board draft with a couple of teams. 

Haven't scouted nearly as much as I'd like that would make me comfortable picking.  And, sadly, quite busy despite the current epidemic.

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1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

Haven't scouted nearly as much as I'd like that would make me comfortable picking.  And, sadly, quite busy despite the current epidemic.

Well, a lot a people that know a lot less than you do are comfortable.  It is, after all, just for shits and giggles.  Not like you make your living off this.  It would take you 5 minutes to figure who to pick for  couple of teams. 

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3 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

I don't know what you mean but trees being incorporated into pass designs?

Probably my misuse of nomenclature, but when I said route tree, I was thinking of the options a given receiver has at top of route based on his read of the defense.

Added thought was that in a given play design... not all options would be made available to all receivers.

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17 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Probably my misuse of nomenclature, but when I said route tree, I was thinking of the options a given receiver has at top of route based on his read of the defense.

Added thought was that in a given play design... not all options would be made available to all receivers.

 

Ahhh, that makes more sense.  Apologies for not picking up on it.  

The amount of options at the top of the route really depends on a few things, but the most important of those - your QB.   If Baker isn't seeing, processing and anticipating what his receivers are seeing, then it becomes much more difficult to tailor an offense to your opponent with only a weeks time.  So as a coach you now have to compensate for that, limit the sight adjustments and try to manufacture offense other ways.   Which very well may have been a big reason on a great deal of our miss-fires last season.  

As for the amount of options a WR has to finish his route, that would also depend on the amount of receivers in the pattern the QB can handle.  Goes back to what I just said - Baker.  It's easier for him, or most any young QB, to read a field with fewer receivers who can vary their routes with (hopefully) the benefit of play action and space.      Having a young QB drop back with 5 options, each of those options can adjust as sight demands, QB reads then rips...      Well, that's the hardest things to do in ALL of sports.

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Have a laptop? Desktop? Tablet?  Headset? Built in Mic?  VoIP app? (Discord) Pencil and paper? Bored from quarantine ?  Cool.   Come join your boy online tomorrow about 11:30am, let's watch some film.

Just learning how to re-master PC and found that apparently I'm able to share my screen over said voip app?  

So lets do this. Fresh eyes, both you and me, on Andrew Billings while I finish out my assessment on the signing.    Game will be vs another run heavy team -  the Ravens, from 10/13.  

Get you a good breakfast, a full pot of coffee and your favorite chair.  Charting plays takes some time.  Let's learn something together.

 

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