Tour2ma Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 I think we can agree that the employee targeted programs with cash to businesses of all sizes to fund payrolls and only payrolls as a form of instant unemployment makes sense.... but maybe not... ... so let's see if we can keep this to industries/business. I've heard a salary cap proposed of $100k/yr for the prorated funding... seems high to me, but... Bailouts are coming, but do all industries/ companies deserve them? Boeing - hearing they need $60b... they are an essential company and make up a huge portion of our export total, but the problem I have is they were already in deep shit due to the 737-max fiasco. $60? Sure, but gov't gets preferred shares of stock just as they did from the big banks in 2008. This is probably the route for any publicly-traded corporation. Airlines - I was onboard until I learned one thing and was reminded of another thing: I learned that 90+% of their taxcut windfall was used to buy back stock and that's why they are cash poor, and... I was reminded that not all that long ago airways went bankrupt in a heartbreak to get out from under union contracts and other obligations.... plus they have collateral... they are called planes. Cruise lines - several have their HQ in the states, but all I know of operate as off-shore businesses with their ships registered in Liberia and other such havens. Hire their ships as needed to act as hospital overflows, but otherwise let them go. Someone will buy their assets in short order and restart the business. Note: Any bankruptcies would muck up the employee targeted cash programs and delay the re-employment of the workers. Hotels - if the employees are kept whole and taxes are suspended the strong should survive if they have reasonable cash reserves... if not... Casinos - special subset of hotels that should have cash reserves unless they got caught up in Macao loses during trade wars. I've little sympathy here... A ton more... it's a huge topic... obviously have to consider big ones including auto, Oil and Gas, Chemical, etc... tons of strategic employers there. Banks? Strangely could be one of the less worrisome segments due to the stress-test requirements imposed after the the Fed opening its banking window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted April 2, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2020 How about billions to private jet companies? Any takers? Bueller? 4:45 pm: Private-jet companies could get billions in aid from coronavirus bailout Private-jet companies could receive billions of dollars in loans, aid and tax relief from the federal government as part of the coronavirus aid package. As part of the $2 trillion stimulus bill, private-jet charter companies and jet-card companies will several types of help from the federal government. First, private-jet companies will no longer have to pay a 7.5% tax to customers. The tax, known as Federal Excise Tax, is charged to customers of private-jet charters and jet-card users. The tax won’t be charged for the rest of the year. Jet companies also won’t have to pay any fuel taxes. Private-jet companies will also be eligible to receive funding from the $25 billion in loans and loan guarantees available to the aviation industry. In addition, they are included in the $25 billion in grant payments for the continuation of wage payments to workers. —Robert Frank https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/29/coronavirus-live-updates-global-cases-near-700000.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted April 2, 2020 Report Share Posted April 2, 2020 Frankly I don't see why private jet companies should be any better or worse taken care of. Or casinos or hotels or restaurant chains or whorehouses for that matter. I get it, rich people have private jets and we hate rich people but... not to mention that evil bastard than owns private jets hotels and casinos around the world... He shall go nameless... Seems like it's a political football whenever anybody gets bailed out. And frankly are any bailouts good? Let the weak die, survival of the fittest? What the Phoenix Rise From the Ashes if it can. WSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbluhm86 Posted April 2, 2020 Report Share Posted April 2, 2020 On 3/20/2020 at 1:41 PM, Tour2ma said: ...Bailouts are coming, but do all industries/ companies deserve them? 3 hours ago, Westside Steve said: ...And frankly are any bailouts good? Let the weak die, survival of the fittest? What the Phoenix Rise From the Ashes if it can. WSS There's one thing you both are possibly forgetting. In 2008, most companies went out of business due to their own ineptitude. In 2020, businesses are being closed and losing money, not by their own actions, but because of massive, mandatory quarantine orders from the government. Businesses absolutely deserve some sort of financial windfall from the government, in this case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted April 2, 2020 Report Share Posted April 2, 2020 Let’s not overlook the millions given to the illegal immigrants. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted April 2, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2020 Given? Are you sure you are not confusing migrants with immigrants? 4 hours ago, jbluhm86 said: There's one thing you both are possibly forgetting. In 2008, most companies went out of business due to their own ineptitude. In 2020, businesses are being closed and losing money, not by their own actions, but because of massive, mandatory quarantine orders from the government. Businesses absolutely deserve some sort of financial windfall from the government, in this case. All true and why I support the relief funding, but not all businesses are "essential" or "worthy".. Airlines... essential. Private jet services... not. Hotels... yes. Floating hotels... a/k/a Cruise lines? No... they aren't even US companies. Get money to their US employees, but to them? Nope... tey register their ships in Liberia and incorporate in the Cayman Islands. There are limits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbluhm86 Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 8 hours ago, Tour2ma said: Given? Are you sure you are not confusing migrants with immigrants? All true and why I support the relief funding, but not all businesses are "essential" or "worthy".. Airlines... essential. Private jet services... not. Hotels... yes. Floating hotels... a/k/a Cruise lines? No... they aren't even US companies. Get money to their US employees, but to them? Nope... tey register their ships in Liberia and incorporate in the Cayman Islands. There are limits. Any US business that was forced to be shuttered due to government quarantine/stay at home orders should be compensated for complying. That should be the only qualifier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 5 minutes ago, jbluhm86 said: Any US business that was forced to be shuttered due to government quarantine/stay at home orders should be compensated for complying. That should be the only qualifier. And if they are driven into bankruptcy as a result? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 Farms need bailouts, too. I might only be able to plant about 500 tomato plants this spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted April 3, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 1 hour ago, calfoxwc said: Farms need bailouts, too. I might only be able to plant about 500 tomato plants this spring. What's a normal planting for you, cal, and why would there be a reduction? It would seem to this city-boy that farming would be among the least impacted businesses... especially large scale farming... outdoors... many solitary activities... mechanized. Smaller scale farming, especially vegetable, I can see more possible impacts, but even those where pickers are needed social distancing OTJ is doable. I can see where migrating and housing would raise issues tho... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted April 3, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 15 hours ago, jbluhm86 said: Any US business that was forced to be shuttered due to government quarantine/stay at home orders should be compensated for complying. That should be the only qualifier. I get that sentiment, but too simplistic to my mind, jb... Airlines aren't shuttered. Neither are restaurants nor "essential" businesses, but all are going to need help keeping their employees whole. Do businesses have to be saved as well? Yes, if there is to be work for those employees we help to return to... but somewhere I just believe there's a line. Businesses that the private markets will recapitalize... ones that have assets to use as loan collateral, e.g., planes. Somewhere there's a line.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 Well, regarding large scale farming - it's the ramifications of farmers and/or their family members getting the virus. Can't farm, that sick. Have to out and get seed, fertilizer, etc etc. I don't know if the shops that fix tractors, combines, etc are shut down or not. Hopefully they are the least hit. China may not be able to buy the excess soybeans, leading to a dramatic price reduction, even after the problems last year they had with the swine flu, which also impacts corn. On a smaller level, there is also the shutting down of farmer's markets I think. There are a lot of subtle ways farming can be affected, depending on the crop. I deeply regret not having had a large productive tomato garden. Those 50 canned quarts would be great to have about now. and, my beautiful double, long row of green beans. The deer ate nearly every one of those big plants one night.....jumped over the fence, that is going to be a lot taller this coming season.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted April 3, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 I can see the market disruptions and I understand that the sick can't work, but isolating on a farm still seems reasonably easy. Big farm Ag chemical production was the business I was in when I worked. I know they take bulk delivery of most chemicals especially ferts. Our last owner had radio dispatched semi's pulling tankers rolling the corn belt highways in season for weed control. Did not think of Farmer's markets... and we have a good one here. Did occur to me that roadside stands might see a lot less traffic and/or increased reluctance to stop. So see? I don't know everything... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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