TexasAg1969 Posted March 17, 2020 Report Share Posted March 17, 2020 BTW the most important thing to remember as we all go merrily out the door because of coronabeervirus....................................it is now ok to pronounce the L in Salmon!😜 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted March 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2020 Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 22 hours ago, Westside Steve said: He sped the economy along Roosevelt fiddle fucked around with his social programs and finally the only thing that pulled us out of the Depression was a big big war and allowing the other two manufacturing superpowers they kick each other's ass. And the housing recession was a pimple on the ass of the Great Depression. At least this post isn't stupid.... it's just ignorant.  The great recession was only "a pimple on the ass" due to the action taken by Bernake at the Fed and Paulsen browbeating Congress into passing TARP at the end of Bush's term. As for the Great Depression... It is well documented that FDR's programs were pulling us out of the Depression. The economy was growing again. Then concerns over the growing deficit caused him to agree to contract spending and raise taxes prematurely and the nation began to slip back into recession. But before it could revert to depthys of the depression, along came WWII.... the greatest stimulus program in history. With apologies for the font size...   Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 On 3/16/2020 at 5:10 PM, OldBrownsFan said: It would be a cheap shot if I said that you or Tex actually were rooting for the coronavirus to bring down Trump or even that all democrats feel that way. There are some who are. I read them all the time so twisted with TDS they almost act like they have lost their minds with hatred of the bad orange man. Here are a few of the latest. Just a few on my news feed today. https://www.redstate.com/sister-toldjah/2020/03/16/dan-bongino-and-others-call-out-nyt-editor-for-altering-trump-quote-from-conference-call-with-governors/ https://www.redstate.com/bonchie/2020/03/16/in-midst-the-of-a-pandemic-rep.-james-clyburn-compares-trump-to-hitler-because-reasons https://www.redstate.com/brandon_morse/2020/03/16/lawrence-o’donnell-joins-media-in-using-wuhan-virus-panic-as-a-way-to-hurt-trump/ DC Dems is a broad enough brush for me to call you out... And you need more variety in your news sources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 9 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: At least this post isn't stupid.... it's just ignorant.  The great recession was only "a pimple on the ass" due to the action taken by Bernake at the Fed and Paulsen browbeating Congress into passing TARP at the end of Bush's term. As for the Great Depression... It is well documented that FDR's programs were pulling us out of the Depression. The economy was growing again. Then concerns over the growing deficit caused him to agree to contract spending and raise taxes prematurely and the nation began to slip back into recession. But before it could revert to depthys of the depression, along came WWII.... the greatest stimulus program in history. With apologies for the font size...   So you are telling us that  all the hyperventilation that's been going on for nearly a hundred years about the Great Depression, has been hype? I wonder if John Steinbeck will have to return the Pulitzer? WSS  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted March 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 12 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: DC Dems is a broad enough brush for me to call you out... And you need more variety in your news sources. Sorry Tour but I cannot go to sources you might prefer like the NY Slimes Times or WaPo because of their bias but fortunately today we have alternative media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 On 3/16/2020 at 11:50 PM, jbluhm86 said: Coronavirus is going to lead to a global recession, that's almost a given at this point. How long and how severe it will be is yet to be seen. As for Trump, when you base the majority of your presidency's reputation and legitimacy on the performance of the economy, you better damn well be prepared to take the hit and answer the tough questions when the economy starts tanking. Trump's reputation has lived by the proverbial sword of the economy, so he better prepare for the possibility of dying by the sword of the economy. Every President's hopes for re-election, Congressional control, etc. rides on his economy. What they can't do is link their success to either: the stock market, or gas prices. Trump has fallen into trap 1. And he so intently focused upon the market that it clouded what little judgement he has when it came to dealing with Covid-19 early. As for trap 2... If you remember back during a nomination run Newt Gingrich hitched his wagon to getting gas prices down to $2.50/gallon when they were over $3. A couple months later they were under $2.50 and he was asked if he was going to raise them. That plus a plan about colonizing the moon (IIRC) pretty much ended his run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 23 hours ago, OldBrownsFan said: In school our history books credited Roosevelt for getting us out of the Great Depression and I believe that is true to a point. Roosevelt was the president we needed to kick start the economy but I believe after stimulating the economy he needed to get govt out of the way and he didn't and made the depression last longer than it should. I believe with WSS that it was only WW2 that finally did get us out of the depression.  Some of Obama's stimulus did some good but the democrats used it as an excuse to fund every pork barrel wasteful spending project they ever dreamed about. After nearly a trillion dollar stimulus we had little to show for it. I would have rather seen that money used on infrastructure which would have been a great investment other than Solyndra, cash for clunkers and any number of wasteful spending in Obama's stimulus. It is not coincidence that Obama never had the booming economy that Trump has. Trumps lowering taxes and less govt regulations has always been proved to be a winner for economic growth. See post above for Steve... It wasn't a matter of the Gov't being "in the way"... FDR raised taxes and cut spending to reduce the deficit. "every pork barrel project"... Congratulations on finding a broader brush. As for the stimulus not working, please see below. Ummmmm... no... and to show you, you get your own chart. As a reminder the 4th column is GDP growth. And here's a special bonus, pop quiz... In which time period were more US jobs created? Was it? A. The last 36 months of the Obama administration, or B. the first 36 months of the Trump administration. Here's your chart....  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 21 hours ago, Westside Steve said: In the grand scope the wall cost nothing it's just something for idiots to whine about. Damn straight and at only $30mm per mile Mexico is getting a bargain! Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 8 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: Damn straight and at only $30mm per mile Mexico is getting a bargain! Â Like a dog with a bone. WSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted March 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2020  31 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: See post above for Steve... It wasn't a matter of the Gov't being "in the way"... FDR raised taxes and cut spending to reduce the deficit. "every pork barrel project"... Congratulations on finding a broader brush. As for the stimulus not working, please see below. Ummmmm... no... and to show you, you get your own chart. As a reminder the 4th column is GDP growth. And here's a special bonus, pop quiz... In which time period were more US jobs created? Was it? A. The last 36 months of the Obama administration, or B. the first 36 months of the Trump administration. Here's your chart....  There are always two sides to a story. And as Mark Twain once said there are lies, d*** lies and statistics. https://mises.org/library/how-fdr-made-depression-worse https://fee.org/articles/fdrs-folly-how-roosevelt-and-his-new-deal-prolonged-the-great-depression/ https://rapidcityjournal.com/news/opinion/columnists/national/thomas-sowell-fdr-s-policies-prolonged-great-depression/article_3f80432e-e6c5-11df-affe-001cc4c03286.html https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/sep/19/moore-the-enduring-myth-of-fdr-and-the-new-deal/ * And I I could post more links for another 20 minutes from those saying FDR's policies prolonged the Great Depression...  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 22 hours ago, OldBrownsFan said: Walls work. They work everywhere they are tried. If you support open borders then you would oppose a wall. The wall is not the only answer but it is part of the answer.(Although ironically Mexico is now suddenly worried about border security because of the coronavirus in our country). The waste in Obama's stimulus is legendary. I would have been happy though if we had used that money for infrastructure and then we would have had something to this day to show for the money spent. Data Shows that the Stimulus Package Was a Waste of Money All the stimulus did was put Obama 6.1 million jobs in the hole. https://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/peter-roff/2009/12/19/data-shows-that-the-stimulus-package-was-a-waste-of-money God... not another opinion blog... OBF your "source" is comparing 2009 job drops in the heart of the great recession to stimulated estimates a year later... in 2010. How does that comparison make any sense? How did "the stimulus" really do? Well for that lets look at the estimated job growth for 2010 that your source states... or 3.46mm jobs... to (and here is the tricky part) the number of jobs actually created in the... wait for it... same time period. Blew your mind didn't I? OK ready for the answer? Here it comes... Direct from our own Bureau of Labor and Statistics which has a very cool website... In 2010 US non-farm payroll job growth was: 1.034mm jobs... So, yes, the stimulus fell short of it's own projections by a hefty 2.43mm jobs. Put another way not quit one-third of the estimated job growth materialized. But that this was the case surprised no one as the recession went deeper and created more unemployment than was thought at the time of the stimulus... the $780b stimulus. There were many economists at the time that warned that $780b was nowhere near enough. Paul Krugman was one who urged a trillion immediately and believed even more would prove necessary before the end of the year became a punching bag for the right. Turned out he was right. But the Dems were too cowardly to go for a trillion because an amount followed by the t-word would bring too much criticism. Also thought $900 billion sounded too high... ditto $800b. How about $780b? Thought they could handle the grilling for that so that became the number. I shit you not, that is part of how the number ended up where it did. Ultimately the economy rose without the added monies, but at a much slower pace. Would a trillion have meant hitting the estimated growth? Probably not... probably too much optimism in the estimate as well, but jobs would have grown faster.  Going to apologize here to you, OBF, for the condescending tone in the earlier part of this post, but I'm also going to ask for your help... to please look critically at what you read and see the obvious moves folks like this blogger use to fit their narrative. Apples and oranges data comparisons as was the case here is there for the seeing if you look at it critically. You can do that...  Now go work on that pop quiz... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 31 minutes ago, OldBrownsFan said: There are always two sides to a story. And as Mark Twain once said there are lies, d*** lies and statistics. https://mises.org/library/how-fdr-made-depression-worse https://fee.org/articles/fdrs-folly-how-roosevelt-and-his-new-deal-prolonged-the-great-depression/ https://rapidcityjournal.com/news/opinion/columnists/national/thomas-sowell-fdr-s-policies-prolonged-great-depression/article_3f80432e-e6c5-11df-affe-001cc4c03286.html https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/sep/19/moore-the-enduring-myth-of-fdr-and-the-new-deal/ * And I I could post more links for another 20 minutes from those saying FDR's policies prolonged the Great Depression... I'm sure you could, but why not just look at the data yourself? And what I posted is data.... not statistics... so tell Sam Clemens to buttt out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 46 minutes ago, Westside Steve said: Like a dog with a bone. WSS That's it? C'mon, man at least try. ... or you just going to be this dawg's bitch? How many new miles have been built so far... not long-planned replacements, but new miles added? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted March 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 8 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: I'm sure you could, but why not just look at the data yourself? I have. So you take everything and weigh it out and see what the better argument is. I believe the policies of FDR made the Great Depression last longer than it should have. There are many who also come to that conclusion. Off topic...not to mention how FDR put Japanese Americans in internment camps. I usually don't judge those in the past with today's standards but WW2 is not all that long ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted March 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 35 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: God... not another opinion blog... OBF your "source" is comparing 2009 job drops in the heart of the great recession to stimulated estimates a year later... in 2010. How does that comparison make any sense? How did "the stimulus" really do? Well for that lets look at the estimated job growth for 2010 that your source states... or 3.46mm jobs... to (and here is the tricky part) the number of jobs actually created in the... wait for it... same time period. Blew your mind didn't I? OK ready for the answer? Here it comes... Direct from our own Bureau of Labor and Statistics which has a very cool website... In 2010 US non-farm payroll job growth was: 1.034mm jobs... So, yes, the stimulus fell short of it's own projections by a hefty 2.43mm jobs. Put another way not quit one-third of the estimated job growth materialized. But that this was the case surprised no one as the recession went deeper and created more unemployment than was thought at the time of the stimulus... the $780b stimulus. There were many economists at the time that warned that $780b was nowhere near enough. Paul Krugman was one who urged a trillion immediately and believed even more would prove necessary before the end of the year became a punching bag for the right. Turned out he was right. But the Dems were too cowardly to go for a trillion because an amount followed by the t-word would bring too much criticism. Also thought $900 billion sounded too high... ditto $800b. How about $780b? Thought they could handle the grilling for that so that became the number. I shit you not, that is part of how the number ended up where it did. Ultimately the economy rose without the added monies, but at a much slower pace. Would a trillion have meant hitting the estimated growth? Probably not... probably too much optimism in the estimate as well, but jobs would have grown faster.  Going to apologize here to you, OBF, for the condescending tone in the earlier part of this post, but I'm also going to ask for your help... to please look critically at what you read and see the obvious moves folks like this blogger use to fit their narrative. Apples and oranges data comparisons as was the case here is there for the seeing if you look at it critically. You can do that...  Now go work on that pop quiz... You likely have a higher opinion of Paul Krugman than me. He has notoriously been proven wrong many times. https://news.yahoo.com/paul-krugman-always-wrong-never-173530058.html BTW - do you ever remember the recovery summer happening that Obama promised ? Neither do I .  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 Meanwhile back at the market. Up a few percent yesterday... did a very little selling... raised a little cash. Down a few today... but no breakers hit so far. Tesla hit my strike price in a standing buy order just after the open... so I own more of that. May do a little more nibbling... but only nubblin'... Such is life in a Bear market. See ya'll... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 11 minutes ago, OldBrownsFan said: I have. So you take everything and weigh it out and see what the better argument is. I believe the policies of FDR made the Great Depression last longer than it should have. There are many who also come to that conclusion. Off topic...not to mention how FDR put Japanese Americans in internment camps. I usually don't judge those in the past with today's standards but WW2 is not all that long ago. I'm sure there are "many", but I doubt yours is the consensus view. As for the off-topic... if your going to mention something... just mention it, but please give it context. Don't think his Executive Order that set interment into action was FDR's finest moment? Me neither. It was the culmination of years of racism directed at Japanese Americans and immigrants. 1 minute ago, OldBrownsFan said: You likely have a higher opinion of Paul Krugman than me. He has notoriously been proven wrong many times. https://news.yahoo.com/paul-krugman-always-wrong-never-173530058.html Higher is a relative term... if yours is low I can be neutral on him and you'd still be correct. Not surprised to hear he's been wrong... but he's been right at least twice. The necessary size of the stimulus and whatever work he did to win his Nobel Prize... those Nobel folks are picky that way.  Finish the quiz yet or do you know what's coming? More serious discussion after the quiz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted March 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 20 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: I'm sure there are "many", but I doubt yours is the consensus view. As for the off-topic... if your going to mention something... just mention it, but please give it context. Don't think his Executive Order that set interment into action was FDR's finest moment? Me neither. It was the culmination of years of racism directed at Japanese Americans and immigrants. Higher is a relative term... if yours is low I can be neutral on him and you'd still be correct. Not surprised to hear he's been wrong... but he's been right at least twice. The necessary size of the stimulus and whatever work he did to win his Nobel Prize... those Nobel folks are picky that way.  Finish the quiz yet or do you know what's coming? More serious discussion after the quiz. Not surprised to hear he's been wrong... but he's been right at least twice. The necessary size of the stimulus and whatever work he did to win his Nobel Prize... those Nobel folks are picky that way. *********************** Well remember Tour even a broken clock has the correct time at least twice a day. 😄 Come on, did Obama really earn his Nobel prize? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 1 hour ago, OldBrownsFan said: Come on, did Obama really earn his Nobel prize? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34277960 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted March 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, DieHardBrownsFan said: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34277960 So maybe those "picky" Nobel folks weren't so picky when handing out a Nobel Peace Prize to Obama? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 2 hours ago, OldBrownsFan said: Come on, did Obama really earn his Nobel prize? Of course my Picky comment was in reference to Krugman's work... which can be objectively evaluated. But in answer to your question... Yeah... even I thought that was premature. I had not realized that his embarrassment at winning it until I read the bbc link DH put up. What I did not get out of the read is what it was the Nobel dude was strengthen Obama for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 Oh and times up, OBF... Here's the answer to the Pop Quiz... -- Trump's first 36 months... 6,556,000 jobs added - Obama's last 36 months... 8,069,000 jobs added Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 And we hit the 7% downside breaker again. Market sliding down a little more since trading resumed... S&P now off a little over 8%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 9 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: And we hit the 7% downside breaker again. Market sliding down a little more since trading resumed... S&P now off a little over 8%. I've gotten murdered recently I'm relatively young, compared to oil and diamonds, but I expected to come back. Quickly or slowly I'm hoping for quickly. WSS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted March 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 44 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: Oh and times up, OBF... Here's the answer to the Pop Quiz... -- Trump's first 36 months... 6,556,000 jobs added - Obama's last 36 months... 8,069,000 jobs added And the devil is in the details as usual. I know this is an opinion piece but that doesn't make the data wrong. Anyway and you probably know this better than most there are a whole lot of things to consider such as the types of jobs being created, full or part time jobs etc.. No, Obama doesn't deserve credit for Trump's economy https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/no-obama-doesnt-deserve-credit-for-trumps-economy   Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 19, 2020 Report Share Posted March 19, 2020 What data? An opinion backed by data is fine, even one in the right-leaning Washington Examiner, but there was no data in the article. There was a spinning wheel like something was loading at the bottom left after scrolling down, but there was no data. Did the data eventually appear there? (I've already typed everything else and it's still spinning.) The author did use the word "data", but never shared any. Â That said... he made one point that I would have been willing to concede, but to find out what point that would have been you need to show some thought... not just slap up the first google hit that agrees with you. So if you want to tell me what kind of jobs were created when and what the differences were, then let's continue. If not, then let's not. Â Regardless of the above, please, answer me this... and i promise I will believe whatever answer you give... Before I proposed the Pop quiz, you have been assuming Trump's job creation pace exceeded Obama's didn't you? Even me asking and you suspecting I knew the answer to the question was Obama (you were right... I did), you still thought "it couldn't be," didn't you? Â I'll even tell you why I'm asking... I'm truly trying to understand what, other than his say-so, is the basis is for Trump supporters' belief that this economy is so much better than what it was before. So I'm asking for your help... lucky you. Â ... and the wheel is still spinning... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted March 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2020 Tour right off the bat I was thinking more part time job creation under Obama and ding ding ding...one quick google search The devil is always in the details........ I probably should have given you a pop quiz. I suspect you didn't know what a part time job creator Obama was. Investing.com -- A new study by economists from Harvard and Princeton indicates that 94% of the 10 million new jobs created during the Obama era were temporary positions. The study shows that the jobs were temporary, contract positions, or part-time "gig" jobs in a variety of fields. https://www.investing.com/news/economy/nearly-95-of-all-job-growth-during-obama-era-part-time,-contract-work-449057 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 Speaking of stock market. Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.