The Gipper Posted March 15, 2020 Report Share Posted March 15, 2020 10 minutes ago, Icecube said: I thought KJ was the only decent player taken that entire draft, from Cuse I think. The stat that I am using above would say you are wrong. KJ had a .31 game to game production score. Couch had a .48 score. The fact is, Couch was "decent" until injured. Just put into terrible circumstances...but still was the primary QB in the Browns only playoff season since 1994. Daylon McCutcheon had a .32 score. Now THERE may be your underrated player. He played in 103 games for the Browns in 7 years. 12 Ints. 2 returned for TDs. 431 tackles made in those years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted March 15, 2020 Report Share Posted March 15, 2020 18 minutes ago, Icecube said: I thought KJ was the only decent player taken that entire draft, from Cuse I think. Butch Davis cut him, mid season, after that play I mentioned above. ...yes, he had an 84 catch 1000+ yard season for us....and a couple of other decent years...but he was a wuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 15, 2020 Report Share Posted March 15, 2020 If we just look at 1999 forward, here are the players with the highest Career Production Average (for the Browns) that have played for the Browns since that time. You can determine who may or may not be "underrated": Joe Thomas 106 DQwell Jackson 53 ....made a lot of tackles, but overrated IMO Orpheus Roye 49 Joe Haden 45 Alex Mack 45....outstanding player, lost to FA Phil Dawson 45 Andra Davis 44 Underrated Aytahba Rubin 41 Joel Bitonio 38 Daylon McCutcheon 38 Underrated Dennis Northcutt 33 Tim Couch 32 Ryan Tucker 32 maybe a bit underrated. Braylon Edwards 31 Gerard Warren 30 Kevin Johnson 30 Of course, there were some guys here for a short time that did not attain 30 pts, but who went elsewhere and have done decent with other teams: The Schwartz, TJ Ward, Tashaun Gipson, Jamir Miller did well here for a bit....until he was hurt early on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted March 15, 2020 Report Share Posted March 15, 2020 I get that Joe D got in the HOF as a Buffalo Bill..But Sam Rutigliano pounded the table to get Joe Delamiellure in a trade to a upgrade over Jackson & Sheppard at RG...OJ ran for 2000 yards in a Bills season with Joe D.. But than, Sipe passed for over 4100 yards when Joe D arrived.. Joe D played 5 years as a Brown & started 70 of 73 at RG.. a 11-5 record adding Joe D, got us going to some playoff games..Joe D was no way underrated... but Rutigliano & the trade of Joe D was.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 15, 2020 Report Share Posted March 15, 2020 40 minutes ago, gumby73 said: I get that Joe D got in the HOF as a Buffalo Bill..But Sam Rutigliano pounded the table to get Joe Delamiellure in a trade to a upgrade over Jackson & Sheppard at RG...OJ ran for 2000 yards in a Bills season with Joe D.. But than, Sipe passed for over 4100 yards when Joe D arrived.. Joe D played 5 years as a Brown & started 70 of 73 at RG.. a 11-5 record adding Joe D, got us going to some playoff games..Joe D was no way underrated... but Rutigliano & the trade of Joe D was.. Joe D is in as an equal between the Bills and Browns. See this link to the PFHOF site. Hall of Famers by Franchise. They indicate here that they have teams in bold if a player has played the primary part of his career with a particular team. Joe D is in bold for both Browns and Bills: https://www.profootballhof.com/heroes-of-the-game/franchises/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 15, 2020 Report Share Posted March 15, 2020 On 3/12/2020 at 6:55 PM, Dutch Oven said: Mike Johnson was a great choice. So what exactly constitutes the "modern era"? Two names that come to mind for the expansion-era Browns are Orpheus Roye and Daylon McCutcheon. Sorry I missed this post apparently.....It is Right On Brother, in my opinion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted March 15, 2020 Report Share Posted March 15, 2020 On 3/11/2020 at 10:24 PM, D Bone said: Leroy Hoard for me....... loved the way he ran. Leroy Hoard at #87, yet Orpheus Roye at #47?? There's a picture of Leroy in the dictionary next to the word Underrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted March 15, 2020 Report Share Posted March 15, 2020 1 hour ago, The Gipper said: Joe D is in as an equal between the Bills and Browns. See this link to the PFHOF site. Hall of Famers by Franchise. They indicate here that they have teams in bold if a player has played the primary part of his career with a particular team. Joe D is in bold for both Browns and Bills: https://www.profootballhof.com/heroes-of-the-game/franchises/ did not know this..cool list & what virus did i have not knowing Ed Reed finished his playing career as a Houston Texan & a NY Jet in 2013? playing as old Ed, got Reed paid another 1.3M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browns149 Posted March 15, 2020 Report Share Posted March 15, 2020 LeRoy Hoard was definitely underrated. He was a beast of a runner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icecube Posted March 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2020 3 hours ago, The Gipper said: The stat that I am using above would say you are wrong. KJ had a .31 game to game production score. Couch had a .48 score. The fact is, Couch was "decent" until injured. Just put into terrible circumstances...but still was the primary QB in the Browns only playoff season since 1994. Daylon McCutcheon had a .32 score. Now THERE may be your underrated player. He played in 103 games for the Browns in 7 years. 12 Ints. 2 returned for TDs. 431 tackles made in those years Hey brother, you may be right, but I'm just going on the eye test of what I remember. KJ is obviously not a Hall of Famer, but he was one of the few picks that draft that was decent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icecube Posted March 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2020 3 hours ago, The Gipper said: The stat that I am using above would say you are wrong. KJ had a .31 game to game production score. Couch had a .48 score. The fact is, Couch was "decent" until injured. Just put into terrible circumstances...but still was the primary QB in the Browns only playoff season since 1994. Daylon McCutcheon had a .32 score. Now THERE may be your underrated player. He played in 103 games for the Browns in 7 years. 12 Ints. 2 returned for TDs. 431 tackles made in those years Cherry picking. How was Couch for a #1 overall pick for the Browns? KJ, as a 2nd rounder, was, by far, a better pick. Couch set them back 7 years. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CoucTi00.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icecube Posted March 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2020 Eric Turner. An enforcer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browns149 Posted March 15, 2020 Report Share Posted March 15, 2020 I don’t think Couch was the problem The fact he was surrounded by crap was the problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browns149 Posted March 15, 2020 Report Share Posted March 15, 2020 4 minutes ago, Icecube said: Eric Turner. An enforcer. I still have a #29 jersey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icecube Posted March 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2020 4 minutes ago, Browns149 said: I don’t think Couch was the problem The fact he was surrounded by crap was the problem He definitely was in a bad position. I felt bad for him. But honestly, he would have to landed on a perfect team to do well. (Like most QBs I guess). Jeff Garcia didn't do anything in Cleveland either, but he was underrated for his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 15, 2020 Report Share Posted March 15, 2020 10 hours ago, Icecube said: Cherry picking. How was Couch for a #1 overall pick for the Browns? KJ, as a 2nd rounder, was, by far, a better pick. Couch set them back 7 years. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CoucTi00.htm Wholly disagree. Couch was the better pick. Who do you think was throwing it to KJ? It was not Couch. The ownership screwed things up for this team....Couch just got hammered so badly behind poor OLs that it eventually caught up with him with injuries. But, remember, he married a Playmate of the Year from NE Ohio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted March 15, 2020 Report Share Posted March 15, 2020 Cody Risien, 7th rd pick out of TAMU, Made 2 Pro Bowls in 86 and 87 and was named 2nd Team All Pro in 83. Darubes mentioned him earlier as well. Tony Jones LT, Undrafted, Played for us from 88-95 and ended his career in Denver in 2000. Was the best linemen we had on the last Cleveland Browns team that won a playoff game before he started in 2 SBs for Denver and made a Pro Bowl in 98. Had a 12 year career; and IMO he got robbed of a Pro Bowl in 95. The good news is when he went to SBs - he finally got the credit he deserved, right Clay Matthews? Hank Fraley. After losing LeCharles Bentley in 2006, Cleveland traded with Philly to land him. Philly had already demoted him to 2nd string in their 2006 training camp following his injury shortened season in 2005. So, exactly how was this former Robert Morris football player going to be the solution to the loss of LeCharles Bentley? I'll start with the reminder that 2-3 auditions before him failed miserably leading to the desperation for Cleveland to trade for him. We ended up receiving a reliable and scrappy student of the game that could make all the line calls; and pull around either end from his Center position (which the book cover didn't advertise). As fate would have it in 2007, Joe Thomas became our LT and Eric Steinbach was the LG sandwiched between Fraley and Thomas. To the right of Fraley we had Ryan Tucker (12 starts)/Seth McKinney (4 starts) and Kevin Shaffer playing his best football (no longer on the blind side of QB). In the end, Fraley was a very valuable guy that made all the line calls and provided veteran leadership during that year Cleveland went 10-6 in 2007. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted March 15, 2020 Report Share Posted March 15, 2020 On 3/13/2020 at 12:23 PM, nickers said: Steve "Eric" Heiden.. I thought he was a pretty good TE.. Caught and blocked pretty well for a journeyman TE I agree Nickers. I thought he provided solid dual purpose that didn't tip tendencies. Had underrated hands and could help set the edge a lot better than Winslow (after multiple knee surgeries). I wouldn't mind finding a guy like this for us today. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted March 15, 2020 Report Share Posted March 15, 2020 On 3/13/2020 at 6:53 PM, ATOM said: Greg Pruitt the king of the tear away jersey LOVED that guy! He's my avatar. I don't know if he was underrated (4 Pro Bowls for Browns & 1 for Raiders) or just forgotten by non-Cleveland fans due to all the injuries that cut seasons/overall career short. Those that saw him don't forget him. Very fun to watch. Until Nick Chubb (also drafted in the upper part of round 2 like Pruitt) - I haven't seen a lot of RBs here that could score from anywhere on the field. I think his strength and power at 190 lbs was underrated as you alluded to above. He is always mentioned as the reason those jerseys no longer exist. Pruitt held the Superstars record for the overhead press with 325 pounds until a very roided up Mark Gastineau at 275 lbs eventually broke it a few years later. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted March 15, 2020 Report Share Posted March 15, 2020 On 3/12/2020 at 11:33 AM, Tour2ma said: John Greco.... Back when we had a really good OL John was everyone's afterthought. Started two years next to Joe T. at LG. Flipped seamlessly to RG when Bito came along and elevated Schwartz's game when he moved. Played heavy in our power run scheme and then shed 20 pounds to get quicker when we went to the ZBS. Twice stabilized our Center play... once when Mack was injured... once when Erving face planted The guy brought his lunch pail to Berea for 5 good seasons before injury ground him down. Great choice here Tour - especially considering he was mostly a backup with the Rams in 2008, 2009 and 2010 before we traded for him! One of the conditions of this trade in terms of what round draft pick we would give up was based on if he started or not in Cleveland in 2011. He did not start a game for us in 2011 so the conditional pick we gave up for him was a 7th round pick in 2012. Speaking of 2012, he started 12 games for us after an injury to Jason Pinkston. He played well enough to get himself a 5 year contract extension on July 23, 2013 that could earn him up to $13 million with $3 million Guaranteed. The rest is better said above... I'm glad I see a thread like this. It reminds me that our fans do remember what some of the guys have put on the line here; and it's not always from the players the show up with the sexiest football resumes. It's guys that show up with imperfections that fully understand that anything less than a "blue collar all you got" won't keep them here for long. When they succeed from this mentality - it's nice to see fans appreciating it. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 15, 2020 Report Share Posted March 15, 2020 10 hours ago, Icecube said: Hey brother, you may be right, but I'm just going on the eye test of what I remember. KJ is obviously not a Hall of Famer, but he was one of the few picks that draft that was decent. Actually...if you think about it.....we probably got more "decent" picks out of that draft with Couch, KJ, McCutcheon, than we did in the next several drafts....with the likes of Courtney Brown and Gerard Warren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 15, 2020 Report Share Posted March 15, 2020 10 hours ago, Icecube said: He definitely was in a bad position. I felt bad for him. But honestly, he would have to landed on a perfect team to do well. (Like most QBs I guess). Jeff Garcia didn't do anything in Cleveland either, but he was underrated for his career. Jeff Garcia also married a Playmate of the Year from NE Ohio. So, I guess if you are an underrated (or overrated) Browns QB....you get to marry a Playmate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted March 15, 2020 Report Share Posted March 15, 2020 3 hours ago, Flugel said: I agree Nickers. I thought he provided solid dual purpose that didn't tip tendencies. Had underrated hands and could help set the edge a lot better than Winslow (after multiple knee surgeries). I wouldn't mind finding a guy like this for us today. He's pretty much what you look for prototypically in a TE.. Size, Good hands, Decent wheels and blocks... I would take that any ol day... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjp28 Posted March 15, 2020 Report Share Posted March 15, 2020 11 hours ago, Icecube said: He definitely was in a bad position. I felt bad for him. But honestly, he would have to landed on a perfect team to do well. (Like most QBs I guess). Jeff Garcia didn't do anything in Cleveland either, but he was underrated for his career. Well he did one thing he met a girl from Westlake, Ohio Carmella DeCesare who was half Italian half Puerto Rican and the playmate of the year in 2004, They had a bunch of kids and did pretty well together. She's still a babe ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icecube Posted March 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2020 1 hour ago, mjp28 said: Well he did one thing he met a girl from Westlake, Ohio Carmella DeCesare who was half Italian half Puerto Rican and the playmate of the year in 2004, They had a bunch of kids and did pretty well together. She's still a babe ! mmmmm, mmmmm, mmmmmmmmmmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alporcini Posted March 15, 2020 Report Share Posted March 15, 2020 6 hours ago, Flugel said: LOVED that guy! He's my avatar. I don't know if he was underrated (4 Pro Bowls for Browns & 1 for Raiders) or just forgotten by non-Cleveland fans due to all the injuries that cut seasons/overall career short. Those that saw him don't forget him. Very fun to watch. Until Nick Chubb (also drafted in the upper part of round 2 like Pruitt) - I haven't seen a lot of RBs here that could score from anywhere on the field. I think his strength and power at 190 lbs was underrated as you alluded to above. He is always mentioned as the reason those jerseys no longer exist. Pruitt held the Superstars record for the overhead press with 325 pounds until a very roided up Mark Gastineau at 275 lbs eventually broke it a few years later. As I recall in college at OU his jersey read Hello on the front, goodbye on the back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted March 15, 2020 Report Share Posted March 15, 2020 1 hour ago, alporcini said: As I recall in college at OU his jersey read Hello on the front, goodbye on the back. Makes perfect sense to me! Thanks for sharing that Al! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATOM Posted March 15, 2020 Report Share Posted March 15, 2020 9 minutes ago, Flugel said: Makes perfect sense to me! Thanks for sharing that Al! the last player to wear the great #34 was carlos hyde and now no one uses it which player do you see as worthy to wear #34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 15, 2020 Report Share Posted March 15, 2020 One from the Defensive side that crossed my mind from my Marty-ball archives... Felix Wright Couple years of S/T and situational sub'ing before becoming a 4-year starter for us... spending 2 at FS and 2 at SS. In his first season as SS he picked 9 passes. All totaled as a Brown he picked 26 regular season passes... good for 11th all-time... and had another 4 picks in the post-season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icecube Posted March 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2020 7 hours ago, The Gipper said: Actually...if you think about it.....we probably got more "decent" picks out of that draft with Couch, KJ, McCutcheon, than we did in the next several drafts....with the likes of Courtney Brown and Gerard Warren. Almost EVERY draft since 1999 has been terrible, almost. The last 3 may have reached an "average" status. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/draft.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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