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Icecube

Most underrated Browns in modern era

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10 minutes ago, Icecube said:

I thought KJ was the only decent player taken that entire draft, from Cuse I think. 

The stat that I am using above would say you are wrong.

KJ  had a .31  game to game production score.

Couch had a .48  score.  The fact is,  Couch was "decent"  until injured. Just put into terrible circumstances...but still was the primary QB in the Browns only playoff season since 1994. 

Daylon McCutcheon had a .32 score.     Now THERE may be your underrated player.  He played in 103 games for the Browns in 7 years.  12 Ints.   2 returned for TDs.  431 tackles made in those years 

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18 minutes ago, Icecube said:

I thought KJ was the only decent player taken that entire draft, from Cuse I think. 

Butch Davis cut him, mid season, after that play I mentioned above.

...yes, he had an 84 catch 1000+ yard season for us....and a couple of other decent years...but he was a wuss.

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If we just look at 1999 forward,  here are the players with the highest Career Production Average (for the Browns) that have played for the Browns since that time.  You can determine who may or may not be "underrated":

Joe Thomas   106

DQwell Jackson   53  ....made a lot of tackles, but overrated IMO

Orpheus Roye  49

Joe Haden  45

Alex Mack  45....outstanding player, lost to FA

Phil Dawson  45

Andra Davis  44     Underrated

Aytahba Rubin  41

Joel Bitonio  38

Daylon McCutcheon 38  Underrated 

Dennis Northcutt 33

Tim Couch  32

Ryan Tucker  32    maybe a bit underrated. 

Braylon Edwards  31

Gerard Warren  30

Kevin Johnson 30

Of course, there were some guys here for a short time that did not attain 30 pts, but who went elsewhere and have done decent with other teams:  The Schwartz,  TJ Ward,  Tashaun Gipson,   Jamir Miller did well here for a bit....until he was hurt early on. 

 

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I get that Joe D got in the HOF as a Buffalo Bill..But Sam Rutigliano pounded the table to get Joe Delamiellure in a trade to a upgrade over Jackson & Sheppard at RG...OJ ran for 2000 yards in a Bills season with Joe D.. But than, Sipe passed for over 4100 yards when Joe D arrived.. Joe D played 5 years as a Brown & started 70 of 73 at RG.. a 11-5 record adding Joe D, got us going to some playoff games..Joe D was no way underrated... but Rutigliano & the trade of Joe D was..  

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40 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

I get that Joe D got in the HOF as a Buffalo Bill..But Sam Rutigliano pounded the table to get Joe Delamiellure in a trade to a upgrade over Jackson & Sheppard at RG...OJ ran for 2000 yards in a Bills season with Joe D.. But than, Sipe passed for over 4100 yards when Joe D arrived.. Joe D played 5 years as a Brown & started 70 of 73 at RG.. a 11-5 record adding Joe D, got us going to some playoff games..Joe D was no way underrated... but Rutigliano & the trade of Joe D was..  

Joe D is in as an equal  between the Bills and Browns.  See this link to the PFHOF site.  Hall of Famers by Franchise.  They indicate here that they have teams in bold if a player has played the primary part of his career with a particular team.  Joe D is in bold for both Browns and Bills:

https://www.profootballhof.com/heroes-of-the-game/franchises/

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On 3/12/2020 at 6:55 PM, Dutch Oven said:

Mike Johnson was a great choice.

So what exactly constitutes the "modern era"? 

Two names that come to mind for the expansion-era Browns are Orpheus Roye and Daylon McCutcheon.

Sorry I missed this post apparently.....It is Right On Brother, in my opinion. 

Vintage-Pinback-RIGHT-ON-BROTHER-Button-

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On 3/11/2020 at 10:24 PM, D Bone said:

Leroy Hoard for me....... loved the way he ran. 

Leroy Hoard at #87, yet Orpheus Roye at #47??

There's a picture of Leroy in the dictionary next to the word Underrated. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

Joe D is in as an equal  between the Bills and Browns.  See this link to the PFHOF site.  Hall of Famers by Franchise.  They indicate here that they have teams in bold if a player has played the primary part of his career with a particular team.  Joe D is in bold for both Browns and Bills:

https://www.profootballhof.com/heroes-of-the-game/franchises/

did not know this..cool list & what virus did i have not knowing Ed Reed finished his playing career as a Houston Texan & a NY Jet in 2013? playing as old Ed, got Reed paid another 1.3M  

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LeRoy Hoard was definitely underrated.

He was a beast of a runner

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3 hours ago, The Gipper said:

The stat that I am using above would say you are wrong.

KJ  had a .31  game to game production score.

Couch had a .48  score.  The fact is,  Couch was "decent"  until injured. Just put into terrible circumstances...but still was the primary QB in the Browns only playoff season since 1994. 

Daylon McCutcheon had a .32 score.     Now THERE may be your underrated player.  He played in 103 games for the Browns in 7 years.  12 Ints.   2 returned for TDs.  431 tackles made in those years 

Hey brother, you may be right, but I'm just going on the eye test of what I remember. KJ is obviously not a Hall of Famer, but he was one of the few picks that draft that was decent.

 

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3 hours ago, The Gipper said:

The stat that I am using above would say you are wrong.

KJ  had a .31  game to game production score.

Couch had a .48  score.  The fact is,  Couch was "decent"  until injured. Just put into terrible circumstances...but still was the primary QB in the Browns only playoff season since 1994. 

Daylon McCutcheon had a .32 score.     Now THERE may be your underrated player.  He played in 103 games for the Browns in 7 years.  12 Ints.   2 returned for TDs.  431 tackles made in those years 

Cherry picking. How was Couch for a #1 overall pick for the Browns? KJ, as a 2nd rounder, was, by far, a better pick. Couch set them back 7 years.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CoucTi00.htm

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I don’t think Couch was the problem 

The fact he was surrounded by crap was the problem 

 

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4 minutes ago, Icecube said:

Eric Turner. An enforcer. 

I still have a #29 jersey 

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4 minutes ago, Browns149 said:

I don’t think Couch was the problem 

The fact he was surrounded by crap was the problem 

 

He definitely was in a bad position. I felt bad for him. But honestly, he would have to landed on a perfect team to do well. (Like most QBs I guess). 

 

Jeff Garcia didn't do anything in Cleveland either, but he was underrated for his career. 

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10 hours ago, Icecube said:

Cherry picking. How was Couch for a #1 overall pick for the Browns? KJ, as a 2nd rounder, was, by far, a better pick. Couch set them back 7 years.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CoucTi00.htm

Wholly disagree.   Couch was the better pick.  Who do you think was throwing it to KJ?   It was not Couch. The ownership screwed things up for this team....Couch just got hammered so badly behind poor OLs that it eventually caught up with him with injuries. 

But, remember, he married a Playmate of the Year  from NE Ohio. 

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Cody Risien, 7th rd pick out of TAMU, Made 2 Pro Bowls in 86 and 87 and was named 2nd Team All Pro in 83.  Darubes mentioned him earlier as well.

Tony Jones LT, Undrafted, Played for us from 88-95 and ended his career in Denver in 2000.  Was the best linemen we had on the last Cleveland Browns team that won a playoff game before he started in 2 SBs for Denver and made a Pro Bowl in 98.  Had a 12 year career; and IMO he got robbed of a Pro Bowl in 95.   The good news is when he went to SBs - he finally got the credit he deserved, right Clay Matthews?  

Hank Fraley. After losing LeCharles Bentley in 2006, Cleveland traded with Philly to land him.  Philly had already demoted him to 2nd string in their 2006 training camp following his injury shortened season in 2005.   So, exactly how was this former Robert Morris football player going to be the solution to the loss of LeCharles Bentley?  I'll start with the reminder that 2-3 auditions before him failed miserably leading to the desperation for Cleveland to trade for him.  We ended up receiving a reliable and scrappy student of the game that could make all the line calls; and pull around either end from his Center position (which the book cover didn't advertise).  As fate would have it in 2007, Joe Thomas became our LT and Eric Steinbach was the LG sandwiched between Fraley and Thomas.  To the right of Fraley we had Ryan Tucker (12 starts)/Seth McKinney (4 starts) and Kevin Shaffer playing his best football (no longer on the blind side of QB). In the end, Fraley was a very valuable guy that made all the line calls and provided veteran leadership during that year Cleveland went 10-6 in 2007.  

 

 

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On 3/13/2020 at 12:23 PM, nickers said:

Steve "Eric" Heiden..

 

I thought he was a pretty good TE.. Caught and blocked pretty well for a journeyman TE

I agree Nickers.  I thought he provided solid dual purpose that didn't tip tendencies. Had underrated hands and could help set the edge a lot better than Winslow (after multiple knee surgeries).  I wouldn't mind finding a guy like this for us today. 

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On 3/13/2020 at 6:53 PM, ATOM said:

Greg Pruitt the king of the tear away jersey

LOVED that guy!   He's my avatar.  I don't know if he was underrated (4 Pro Bowls for Browns & 1 for Raiders) or just forgotten by non-Cleveland fans due to all the injuries that cut seasons/overall career short. Those that saw him don't forget him.  Very fun to watch. Until Nick Chubb (also drafted in the upper part of round 2 like Pruitt) - I haven't seen a lot of RBs here that could score from anywhere on the field. 

I think his strength and power at 190 lbs was underrated as you alluded to above.  He is always mentioned as the reason those jerseys no longer exist.  Pruitt held the Superstars record for the overhead press with 325 pounds until a very roided up Mark Gastineau at 275 lbs eventually broke it a few years later.

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On 3/12/2020 at 11:33 AM, Tour2ma said:

John Greco....

Back when we had a really good OL John was everyone's afterthought.

Started two years next to Joe T. at LG. Flipped seamlessly to RG when Bito came along and elevated Schwartz's game when he moved.

Played heavy in our power run scheme and then shed 20 pounds to get quicker when we went to the ZBS.

Twice stabilized our Center play... once when Mack was injured... once when Erving face planted

The guy brought his lunch pail to Berea for 5 good seasons before injury ground him down.

Great choice here Tour - especially considering he was mostly a backup with the Rams  in 2008, 2009 and 2010 before we traded for him! One of the conditions of this trade in terms of what round draft pick we would give up was based on if he started or not in Cleveland in 2011. He did not start a game for us in 2011 so the conditional pick we gave up for him was a 7th round pick in 2012.

Speaking of 2012, he started 12 games for us after an injury to Jason Pinkston.  He played well enough to get himself a 5 year contract extension on July 23, 2013 that could earn him up to $13 million with $3 million Guaranteed. The rest is better said above...

I'm glad I see a thread like this. It reminds me that our fans do remember what some of the guys have put on the line here; and it's not always from the players the show up with the sexiest football resumes.  It's guys that show up with imperfections that fully understand that anything less than a "blue collar all you got" won't keep them here for long.   When they succeed from this mentality - it's nice to see fans appreciating it. 

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10 hours ago, Icecube said:

Hey brother, you may be right, but I'm just going on the eye test of what I remember. KJ is obviously not a Hall of Famer, but he was one of the few picks that draft that was decent.

 

Actually...if you think about it.....we probably got more "decent" picks out of that draft with Couch, KJ, McCutcheon,  than we did in the next several drafts....with the likes of Courtney Brown and Gerard Warren. 

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10 hours ago, Icecube said:

He definitely was in a bad position. I felt bad for him. But honestly, he would have to landed on a perfect team to do well. (Like most QBs I guess). 

 

Jeff Garcia didn't do anything in Cleveland either, but he was underrated for his career. 

Jeff Garcia also married a Playmate of the Year from NE Ohio. 

So, I guess if you are an underrated (or overrated) Browns QB....you get to marry a Playmate. 

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3 hours ago, Flugel said:

I agree Nickers.  I thought he provided solid dual purpose that didn't tip tendencies. Had underrated hands and could help set the edge a lot better than Winslow (after multiple knee surgeries).  I wouldn't mind finding a guy like this for us today. 

He's pretty much what you look for prototypically in a TE.. Size, Good hands, Decent wheels and blocks... I would take that any ol day...

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11 hours ago, Icecube said:

He definitely was in a bad position. I felt bad for him. But honestly, he would have to landed on a perfect team to do well. (Like most QBs I guess). 

 

Jeff Garcia didn't do anything in Cleveland either, but he was underrated for his career. 

Well he did one thing he met a girl from Westlake, Ohio Carmella DeCesare who was half Italian half Puerto Rican and the playmate of the year in 2004, They had a bunch of kids and did pretty well together.  She's still a babe !

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1 hour ago, mjp28 said:

Well he did one thing he met a girl from Westlake, Ohio Carmella DeCesare who was half Italian half Puerto Rican and the playmate of the year in 2004, They had a bunch of kids and did pretty well together.  She's still a babe !

square___medialibrary_original_496_516.jpg

mmmmm, mmmmm, mmmmmmmmmmmm

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6 hours ago, Flugel said:

LOVED that guy!   He's my avatar.  I don't know if he was underrated (4 Pro Bowls for Browns & 1 for Raiders) or just forgotten by non-Cleveland fans due to all the injuries that cut seasons/overall career short. Those that saw him don't forget him.  Very fun to watch. Until Nick Chubb (also drafted in the upper part of round 2 like Pruitt) - I haven't seen a lot of RBs here that could score from anywhere on the field. 

I think his strength and power at 190 lbs was underrated as you alluded to above.  He is always mentioned as the reason those jerseys no longer exist.  Pruitt held the Superstars record for the overhead press with 325 pounds until a very roided up Mark Gastineau at 275 lbs eventually broke it a few years later.

As I recall in college at OU his jersey read Hello on the front, goodbye on the back. 

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1 hour ago, alporcini said:

As I recall in college at OU his jersey read Hello on the front, goodbye on the back. 

Makes perfect sense to me!  Thanks for sharing that Al! 

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9 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Makes perfect sense to me!  Thanks for sharing that Al! 

the last player to wear the great #34 was carlos hyde and now no one uses it 

which player do you see as worthy to wear #34

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One from the Defensive side that crossed my mind from my Marty-ball archives...

Felix Wright

Couple years of S/T and situational sub'ing before becoming a 4-year starter for us... spending 2 at FS and 2 at SS. In his first season as SS he picked 9 passes. All totaled as a Brown he picked 26 regular season passes... good for 11th all-time... and had another 4 picks in the post-season.

 

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7 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Actually...if you think about it.....we probably got more "decent" picks out of that draft with Couch, KJ, McCutcheon,  than we did in the next several drafts....with the likes of Courtney Brown and Gerard Warren. 

Almost EVERY draft since 1999 has been terrible, almost. 

The last 3 may have reached an "average" status.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/draft.htm

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