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TypicalBrowns50

Browns to let Schobert walk

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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/02/lb-joe-schobert-will-hit-the-free-agent-market-and-will-not-be-back-with-the-browns-source-says.html%3foutputType=amp

 

didnt see this posted on here. Will you guys miss him? I think his best year was last year...but even then he was just average. Wanted 10million a year.

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 Moneyball. Try to get cheap players that they think will be as good as the guys they have that they would have to pay bigger money to  like Schobert and Vernon.

The real question is can you really get those guys for the cheaper price?    Is Taki Taki going to replace Schobert, or is that going to be Mack Wilson's role?

If they let Schobert walk then as far as I’m concerned that position may be as big of a priority As offensive tackle in the draft or in Free Agency. 

Fair to say?

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48 minutes ago, TypicalBrowns50 said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/02/lb-joe-schobert-will-hit-the-free-agent-market-and-will-not-be-back-with-the-browns-source-says.html%3foutputType=amp

 

didnt see this posted on here. Will you guys miss him? I think his best year was last year...but even then he was just average. Wanted 10million a year.

Likeable dude, not trash, played hard, but will never be a difference maker, not for $10 mill. Can't blame him for wanting to cash in as much as possible while he can. Wish him best of luck.  

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5 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

 Moneyball. Try to get cheap players that they think will be as good as the guys they have that they would have to pay like Schobert and Vernon. The real question is can you really get those guys for the cheaper price. If they let Schobert walk then as far as I’m concerned that position may be as big of a priority As offensive tackle 

Not _as_ big. But big. LT comes first, some great ones will be there. Then (and I'm sorry I have to state the obvious) BPA between OG, ILB, S, TE.  Also, I'm stilling leaning towards trading OBJ, and this is a crazy deep WR class.

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Just now, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

I think this means that FO feels highly about Mack Wilson and TakiTaki as Schobert is a highly instinctive and useful player...Who will be expensive and Kirksey is still under contract.

Mack showed some great signs. 

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Thought kirksey played well before his injury.

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30 minutes ago, 7moses7 said:

Just a average Joe , not a player worthy of 10 + million. 

Not the real plug up the holes ,run stopper we really needed. I agree that the new coaching staff must really like Wilson & Tico-Taco to get that done right. Or they just think Joe can't do it. We gave up far too much rushing yardage which has to be the heart of an A++ defense. It makes me wonder if we are going to concentrate on defense this year since the great teams have to have that first and foremost. After all all we need is big fat dime a dozen bodies in the OL right?🙄😁 

Now wouldn't it be ironic if they take the 240 lb 4.39 speedster in the 1st and make him into the run stopping ILB?🤩

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6 hours ago, TypicalBrowns50 said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/02/lb-joe-schobert-will-hit-the-free-agent-market-and-will-not-be-back-with-the-browns-source-says.html%3foutputType=amp

 

didnt see this posted on here. Will you guys miss him? I think his best year was last year...but even then he was just average. Wanted 10million a year.

Played in a Pro Bowl 1 year and led the NFL in tackles another year.  That said, some people only want to remember him for the year he played with a bad hammy and missed a lot of tackles. PFF doesn't explain that nor should they have to.   A lot of the same guys fussed about Jamie Collins when he wasn't nearly 100% coming off a major injury. BB snagged him immediately; and word out of NE is he was performing like a defensive MVP the first half of the 2019 season. When you surround guys like this with better players - they play better.  Make sense?  It should...

Once upon a time, sucking it up and playing injured was a honorable trait. This is especially so on teams with depleted depth at the position the guy plays. 

Here's a concept that seems like a lifetime ago in Cleveland.  When you spend a few years to develop a player to the extent he makes a Pro Bowl 1 year and leads the NFL in tackles another year - you've already committed yourself. Consequently, you reward yourself by keeping him while rewarding the player for meeting/exceeding the expectation. For example, an undrafted LT like Tony/T-Bone Jones.  Instead of locking Schobert up - Dorsey's ego didn't draft him so he's headed for the open market auction that will pay him a higher salary than we could have extended him for a few months ago IMO.  Meanwhile, we've created an opening we didn't need for the growing pains of another unknown we'll get rid of as soon as we learn he's what we wanted.  Then we wonder why we have so much turnover while we look to too many learning curves explaining our record again.  This game counts on chemistry, continuity and leadership.  I don't know about anyone else; but I would have rather had us looking to fill only 2 LBer spots to go with both OT spots, both safety spots, 1 dual purpose TE, DL and OL depth.  This draft also has some damn good WRs that could help us for less cake than we're paying OBJ, who may or may not want to be here this time around. 

Best examples of continuity albeit a different era.  In 78 we drafted Clay Matthews and Ozzie Newsome in the first round.  Both guys exemplified leadership, continuity and excellence at their positions while giving us long careers.  Throughout their tenure, we reached the playoffs with 2 different QBs/3 different HCs in the 80s more than any other decade in my lifetime as a fan.  According to Pro Bowl vet Guard Joe D, Clay played all 4 different LBer positions better than injured starter (except for the position he was projected to play for obvious reasons). He was the leader by example for so many playoff teams we had in the 80s. He had a much better football career at his position than Joe Namath had at his position.  Don't believe me?  Post Namath's career stats and we'll chat.  He was just a better looking Trent Dilfer that won a Superbowl for the large market in NY (while he also had a much better SB than Dilfer).  Ozzie was asked to become a TE here; and he had a HOF career at the position for 2 different productive QBs that counted his experience, leadership and reliability.   The next HC/Management didn't come along and say "I didn't draft either guy so we're not wasting more money $ on their asss moving forward..."   We've only allowed Joe Thomas that type of tenure and he earned Pro Bowl honors every year to perpetuate it. Nobody on defense and only Bitonio have come close to starting as many games here as Joe Thomas. 

Sorry for the rant - I just couldn't hold that stuff hostage.

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6 hours ago, LBC mike said:

Thought kirksey played well before his injury.

Which injury? 

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I think we're in deep shit. It's no secret I can't stand Mack Wilson as a starter, and I have to think Kirko is toast. Who the hell we gonna have back there? 

My gut reaction is this is a terrible decision, but I guess we'll see. 

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I hate it. I still don't want to invest 3 salaries in one guy but I don't yet trust the front office to find a suitable replacement for less money.

WSS

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Now we have another roster spot to fill.

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Dorsey dropped the ball by not re-signing him last year. This is how you lose draft picks that succeed ... you wait until they are hitting free agency to offer them serious money. Another Mitchell Scwartz case. Sign them on their way up through the system, don't wait until they can sniff money from 32 other teams ... you've lost leverage. Hopefully, Berry puts an end to this insanity.

That said, Schobert is good, but not great.

Mack Wison will be a very good player. We will be dipping in free agency to find another lb that fits what Joe Woods wants to do.

Zombo

 

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1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Not the real plug up the holes ,run stopper we really needed. I agree that the new coaching staff must really like Wilson & Tico-Taco to get that done right. Or they just think Joe can't do it. We gave up far too much rushing yardage which has to be the heart of an A++ defense. It makes me wonder if we are going to concentrate on defense this year since the great teams have to have that first and foremost. After all all we need is big fat dime a dozen bodies in the OL right?🙄😁 

Now wouldn't it be ironic if they take the 240 lb 4.39 speedster in the 1st and make him into the run stopping ILB?🤩

Mr Me-Aggies, If Schobert went to TAMU you'd give him every alibi in the book inclusive of blaming popcorn vendors. 

So now we replace a LBer that played in a Pro Bowl 1 year/led the NFL in tackles another year (the years he wasn't playing injured) with a guy nobody knows what position he's best fit for on a team that desperately needs an elite LT talent at #10 overall?  After MG got suspended, who was the only guy making plays and stepping up as a leader on our defense?  It was the guy we invested training and development in so now that's he's become the guy we wanted - we'll pass him onto another team to benefit from his experience. Let's just say he's really good, we still need 2 other LBers, 2 OTs, 2 Safeties, 1 dual purpose TE, OL and DL depth.  More specifically, we'll still have a LB that can do what Schobert did while we're still neglecting what we should be addressing. 

Has anyone considered the TYPE of guy we SHOULD be questioning in terms of big $ is one that was asking other teams to get him outta here under adversity?  Just asking....

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Zombo said:

Dorsey dropped the ball by not re-signing him last year. This is how you lose draft picks that succeed ... you wait until they are hitting free agency to offer them serious money. Another Mitchell Scwartz case. Sign them on their way up through the system, don't wait until they can sniff money from 32 other teams ... you've lost leverage. Hopefully, Berry puts an end to this insanity.

That said, Schobert is good, but not great.

Mack Wison will be a very good player. We will be dipping in free agency to find another lb that fits what Joe Woods wants to do.

Zombo

 

Great stuff Zombo! 

As you alluded to - once upon a time Schwartz was good not great.  Now that he's surrounded by better talent - people around the league are asking how could Cleveland let him go?  You are 100% correct that Dorsey should have resigned/extended Schobert when he could have for less than what the FA market auction will reward him with.  Now we have to replace 3 LBers instead of 2.    We already had enough holes to fill on defense before making Schobert's spot another.  3 LBers and 2 Safeties and DL depth now competes with these openings 2 OTs, OL depth inside, and a partridge in a pear tree.

The only forgettable season Schobert had in the last 3 years is the one with a bad hammy he sucked it up and played injured.

People question the $ we'd pay him while we may have to overpay someone we didn't develop the last 4 years. That's Ghoolie on Moonshine and mushrooms logic.  Not to mention, it's okay to pay OBJ whatever cake he was making even while he asked other teams to get him outta here under adversity. Dorsey's 1 stride forward in 2018 was followed by 10 steps backward in 2019. 

I'm repeating this stuff like I got possessed by Gipper's cell phone.  And that ain't good...

 

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43 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Mr Me-Aggies, If Schobert went to TAMU you'd give him every alibi in the book inclusive of blaming popcorn vendors. 

So now we replace a LBer that played in a Pro Bowl 1 year/led the NFL in tackles another year (the years he wasn't playing injured) with a guy nobody knows what position he's best fit for on a team that desperately needs an elite LT talent at #10 overall?  After MG got suspended, who was the only guy making plays and stepping up as a leader on our defense?  It was the guy we invested training and development in so now that's he's become the guy we wanted - we'll pass him onto another team to benefit from his experience. Let's just say he's really good, we still need 2 other LBers, 2 OTs, 2 Safeties, 1 dual purpose TE, OL and DL depth.  More specifically, we'll still have a LB that can do what Schobert did while we're still neglecting what we should be addressing. 

Has anyone considered the TYPE of guy we SHOULD be questioning in terms of big $ is one that was asking other teams to get him outta here under adversity?  Just asking....

Pure speculation about the thinking in the Browns FO on my part. None of us knows exactly why they are letting him float out there. I just know his weakest asset is run stopping up the middle.

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10 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

I'll scratch my head if Kirksey stays on roster but not Schob.

this right here^^ Kirksey in 2017 signed 4y/38M.. to my math that's 9.5M per season.. And were questioning Joe wanting 10M?... maybe Joe's agent wanted more when Dorse was around seeing Kirk's deal? But letting Joe walk at 10M does not made any more cents in the players market... Good Luck to a guy that played his butt off for 700K & get's nothing to SHow#53 for it...👎... Another drafted Brown, just done wrong by the suits.. 

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Moneyball.  We'll see if they can upgrade the position....but now it's another hole to fill.

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37 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

I just know his weakest asset is run stopping up the middle.

... and that's the key. Joe racked up a lot of plus yardage tackles to help him lead the league. He is simply not a downhill, attacking LB vs the run... and thay may be part of the reason for his success vs the pass.

That said...

4 hours ago, 7moses7 said:

Just a average Joe , not a player worthy of 10 + million. 

He's a little above average and $10mm/yr is the going rate for MLBs of his level. As others have pointed out we had a shot at a discount and let that window close.

As I've posted before I think Joe brings the skill flexibility to slide outside as well... and that's worth a little extra.

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

As you alluded to - once upon a time Schwartz was good not great.  Now that he's surrounded by better talent...

Wait... What? Loved"the rant", but then you took it too far.

Have you compared our OL when Mitch was last here to those he's manned in KC? 

Here's ours... see if you can come close...

Thomas (LT) - Bito (LG) - Mack (C) - Greco (RG) - Schwartz (RT)

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3 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

2 starting Tackles & 1 depth--3* /// 1* starting RG  //// 2* TE's /// 1* WR3 /// 2* Safety /// now 2* LB'ers & Taylor was Cut /// 1* Edge /// 1* DT /// 1* slot corner ///  does 14 players sound about right? 

A bit padded... but even if  the count is 10 or 12, we aren't going to satisfactorily fill all the starting holes in one off-season.

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I think that's what it comes down to for me.  We were throwing almost 10m a year at Kirk, so the additional scratch in this case isn't enough to hurt my heart or this teams pocket book when we've got it.  I'm a big believer in continuity and preventing personnel holes for the sake of pride.     I myself think Schob would be best suited sliding to a WILL backer role.   Which means we likely kick Mack inside and draft for the position as well (Malik Harrison mid rounds isn't a terrible idea at this current vantage point) 

Letting him walk simply means yet another hole for this team to address and, as the theme around here tend to hold true,  LB's are the glue that holds a defense together.   I just don't think it's very astute of Barry to so easily dismiss being able to properly fill this role.   

edit: And a hole left by a solid veteran presence that could greatly have benefited our new and young DC.

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1 minute ago, tiamat63 said:

 I just don't think it's very astute of Barry to so easily dismiss being able to properly fill this role.   

And if I read this new HC right, I do not think this is just a Barry decision but a full coaching staff/FO decision.

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Now wouldn't it be ironic if they take the 240 lb 4.39 speedster in the 1st and make him into the run stopping ILB?🤩

 

Who are you talking about here?  Simmons? 

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2 hours ago, Flugel said:

Played in a Pro Bowl 1 year and led the NFL in tackles another year.  That said, some people only want to remember him for the year he played with a bad hammy and missed a lot of tackles. PFF doesn't explain that nor should they have to.   A lot of the same guys fussed about Jamie Collins when he wasn't nearly 100% coming off a major injury. BB snagged him immediately; and word out of NE is he was performing like a defensive MVP the first half of the 2019 season. When you surround guys like this with better players - they play better.  Make sense?  It should...

Once upon a time, sucking it up and playing injured was a honorable trait. This is especially so on teams with depleted depth at the position the guy plays. 

Here's a concept that seems like a lifetime ago in Cleveland.  When you spend a few years to develop a player to the extent he makes a Pro Bowl 1 year and leads the NFL in tackles another year - you've already committed yourself. Consequently, you reward yourself by keeping him while rewarding the player for meeting/exceeding the expectation. For example, an undrafted LT like Tony/T-Bone Jones.  Instead of locking Schobert up - Dorsey's ego didn't draft him so he's headed for the open market auction that will pay him a higher salary than we could have extended him for a few months ago IMO.  Meanwhile, we've created an opening we didn't need for the growing pains of another unknown we'll get rid of as soon as we learn he's what we wanted.  Then we wonder why we have so much turnover while we look to too many learning curves explaining our record again.  This game counts on chemistry, continuity and leadership.  I don't know about anyone else; but I would have rather had us looking to fill only 2 LBer spots to go with both OT spots, both safety spots, 1 dual purpose TE, DL and OL depth.  This draft also has some damn good WRs that could help us for less cake than we're paying OBJ, who may or may not want to be here this time around. 

Best examples of continuity albeit a different era.  In 78 we drafted Clay Matthews and Ozzie Newsome in the first round.  Both guys exemplified leadership, continuity and excellence at their positions while giving us long careers.  Throughout their tenure, we reached the playoffs with 2 different QBs/3 different HCs in the 80s more than any other decade in my lifetime as a fan.  According to Pro Bowl vet Guard Joe D, Clay played all 4 different LBer positions better than injured starter (except for the position he was projected to play for obvious reasons). He was the leader by example for so many playoff teams we had in the 80s. He had a much better football career at his position than Joe Namath had at his position.  Don't believe me?  Post Namath's career stats and we'll chat.  He was just a better looking Trent Dilfer that won a Superbowl for the large market in NY (while he also had a much better SB than Dilfer).  Ozzie was asked to become a TE here; and he had a HOF career at the position for 2 different productive QBs that counted his experience, leadership and reliability.   The next HC/Management didn't come along and say "I didn't draft either guy so we're not wasting more money $ on their asss moving forward..."   We've only allowed Joe Thomas that type of tenure and he earned Pro Bowl honors every year to perpetuate it. Nobody on defense and only Bitonio have come close to starting as many games here as Joe Thomas. 

Sorry for the rant - I just couldn't hold that stuff hostage.

Just a note though on this:    When Ozzie and Clay played, there was no free agency in the NFL.  That didn't basically come in until the early 90s (and at that point, Clay did go play for the Falcons......but I don't know if it was as a FA.  Maybe BB thought he had diminished skills and just got rid of him)

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2 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

I think we're in deep shit. It's no secret I can't stand Mack Wilson as a starter, and I have to think Kirko is toast. Who the hell we gonna have back there? 

My gut reaction is this is a terrible decision, but I guess we'll see. 

My thoughts as well. I think Kirksey sucks. Mack Wilson was inconsistent all last year and taki didn’t even see the field much 

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1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Pure speculation about the thinking in the Browns FO on my part. None of us knows exactly why they are letting him float out there. I just know his weakest asset is run stopping up the middle.

I busted your chops because I enjoy the way you always keep a sense of humor about you.  I agree with some of what you said.  However, Schobert led the NFL in tackles on a scheme that only used 2 LBers; so are we holding both DTs just as accountable?  Dorsey paid 1 them (Richardson) enough cake where the big feller said "I want me some Cleveland."  We improved somewhat at stopping the run inside in 2019 - at least before we lost MG the last 6 weeks. When we lost that clamp, we asked a lot of just 2 LBers IMO.

This isn't aimed at you - I'm just using this reply to get some of this out.  The goal of a FO should be to reduce the openings to fill - not increase them.  Dorsey gave us Kong Shlong right up the dumpster without the vaseline.  Back to back years we lost 2 LTs to jail/prison.  Kareem Hunt is a Josh Gordon in training; but he's very fortunate the cops that keep finding him with the wrong company are huge Cleveland fans.  We also wasted a draft pick on Gator Done at WR.  His hand picked choice of Safety Dumbass Randall showed up to practice with bruises and scratches on his face (after a night out during the week) before he got scratched for a start and placed concussion protocol. We gave up a 17th pick overall for another WR that spent the 2nd half of last season asking opponents to get him out of Cleveland.  Some people only want to blame analytics; while it would have been nice to have some type of analysis on what are the types that respond to adversity and who are the types you can't trust. Dorsey inherited a TON of picks and a ton of money and it seemed like he only wanted to trade away picks and players to bring in people from other teams. 

Not to mention, whoever the freak saw film of Ticky Tacky's tackling with his fingers and arms only thinking he's gotta have. There wasn't 1 keeper Dorsey and GB sidekicks found in the draft on the OL, inclusive of the very first pick of round 2.  And what the hail was up with Cleveland bringing in so many Miami Hurricanes via trade trade and draft during the Dorsey & Sidekicks tenure?  Am I missing something or are they off by a couple decades with the time to go all in in Miami Hurricanes.  Oppps, I didn't blame analytics - did I?  Highsmith went to the U so nobody questioned all the knuckleheads we brought in from there that haven't been worth ball sweat.

The 1 thing he got right was Baker Mayfield, who has a bigger belly than Santa Claus today.  There are some fannies that need to be lit and there are some that needed to be out of here.  The 1 example of if you bust your tail and keep your head on straight on and off the field (Schobert) seems like the 1 guy even are fans are saying "don't let the door hit you in the asss on the way out."  I couldn't get where they are coming from if I tried...

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No offense taken flugs.😁

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