Browns to let Schobert walk

[The Gipper]

20 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Already said it Gipper, you're not paying attention.  Take a look at the link- waaayyyy down there at the bottom, you have the Pittsburgh Steelers with negative cap room. They're going to have to get real creative, or dump a lot of salary to get under the cap. Franchise tag for a linebacker was $15 million last year. They can think about franchising him- now who they going to cut to do so?   

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/

I am just telling you what I heard on radio and read on some websites. 

But, I suppose there is a guy they could get rid of that would bring them a lot of cap space.    His initials are B and R.   

Wouldn't that be something!!   But it won't happen now.   If they had not traded their first round pick...you never know, they could have been in the running for a rookie QB this year.  

And if their cap space is as bad as you say.....it is another year for them of the Duck Hodges and Mason Rudolphs.   (because I suspect with that situation they could not afford to bring in a Case Keenum, Mariota...or the like. Any of the supposedly decent backup QB candidates) 

But...yes, it does not break my heart to see them in apparent cap hell. 

So, maybe Dupree hits the bricks.     

Anyone else from that team? 

[Tour2ma]

11 hours ago, Flugel said:

Because he doesn't have Haloti Ngata in front of him and Ed Reed/Rod Woodson behind him to deserve what today's market will pay him to play for an organization that did NOT develop him .   We're too poor but the Rats had a Superbowl lineup they never had any cap issues with.

Most teams win SBs without cap issues... The cap issues come after the win and everyone wants to get paid.

I don't think Haloti and Ed would make Joe the 2nd-coming of RayRay.

8 hours ago, gumby73 said:

most bears boards say Nick K-whack-ski ain't going anywhere.. the older Danny Trevathan will be the LB hitting the highway.. looks like Danny T, did not play with Woods at Denver either..

I can't see Queen or Kenneth Murray getting to #41 so I checked out your Mocked guy finalist Willie Gay jr... He had a clean combine & his few tapes looks good against the run...Till i got to the RED Flags... A Did you know?  Willie 'ain't' Gay jr.--- whackmoled his starting QB in the Jaw breaking his Orbital Bone... 🧐🧔Yikes!! 🤓

Gay is a project... a gifted project to be sure, but a project. As such he already belongs on Day 3, IMO... flags just rush him a little further into that Day.

I haven't looked at them very hard as yet, but as of now I see at least one of Queen and Murray making it to #41... and neither one being worth the pick.

6 hours ago, stillmotion said:

Yeah, Dorsey fumbled it, but cmon bro, get it done and keep him. He's worth it.

Again I have to ask a poster... What is "it"?

[Ibleedbrown]

15 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Again I have to ask a poster... What is "it"?

A book. They made a movie about too. It’s about a creepy clown.

[Tour2ma]

46 minutes ago, Ibleedbrown said:

A book. They made a movie about too. It’s about a creepy clown.

For the longest time old, Stevie King's stuff did not translate to the screen worth a damn, but lately it has.

I've been hooked on HBO's The Outsider for weeks now... one week to go.

AND just found out this Sunday will only be the end of season 1... I did not see that coming.

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

For the longest time old, Stevie King's stuff did not translate to the screen worth a damn, but lately it has.

I've been hooked on HBO's The Outsider for weeks now... one week to go.

AND just found out this Sunday will only be the end of season 1... I did not see that coming.

I don't know..... his horror stories were pretty good horror stories.  Christine, Cujo, etc.  He nailed the nightmare we are going through now in The Dead Zone.  The Shining? Stand By Me.  Carrie.  Children of the Corn.  Misery. Firestarter.  Horror movies are not my thing....but his stuff have been made into some of the best.

Shawshank.  The Green Mile.  Great movies.  

Miniseries:  The Stand,   November 22, 1963; The Langoliers.  Under the Dome.

They are remaking The Stand I hear.   Just in time for the Corona Virus. 

[Ibleedbrown]

I do have a soft spot for The Stand. One of my favoriter lazy Sunday movie marathon flicks.

I’m not familiar with the Outsider. I will put that on my list.

[Unsympathetic]

Stephen King wrote a movie about a goal-line defensive series?

Was someone's shining moment a play where they knifed through the sleepwalking offensive line and put the QB out of his misery?

 

 

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, Unsympathetic said:

Stephen King wrote a movie about a goal-line defensive series?

Was someone's shining moment a play where they knifed through the sleepwalking offensive line and put the QB out of his misery?

 

 

Yes, yes it was. 

[hoorta]

7 hours ago, The Gipper said:

I am just telling you what I heard on radio and read on some websites. 

But, I suppose there is a guy they could get rid of that would bring them a lot of cap space.    His initials are B and R.   

Wouldn't that be something!!   But it won't happen now.   If they had not traded their first round pick...you never know, they could have been in the running for a rookie QB this year.  

And if their cap space is as bad as you say.....it is another year for them of the Duck Hodges and Mason Rudolphs.   (because I suspect with that situation they could not afford to bring in a Case Keenum, Mariota...or the like. Any of the supposedly decent backup QB candidates) 

But...yes, it does not break my heart to see them in apparent cap hell. 

So, maybe Dupree hits the bricks.     

Anyone else from that team? 

What your hearing and reading is a blast of silly season hot air. Teams have a couple more weeks to franchise tag a player. We'll see soon enough.  

[Icecube]

18 hours ago, Flugel said:

Who in here is announcing things are better now?  We have way more openings today than we had last year at this time. Are you following this team or are you still waiting for your idol Colin Cowherd to tell you what to think?

I think it's adorable you took inventory of popular opinion about Schobert and catered to it or was that Cowherd reminding you he's not Ray Lewis?  As for your Dorsey comment, I seem to remember 1 poster in here that was nervous and questioning a lot of things the leadership was doing last year. He even borrowed your screen name every time he did it.

 

Well, OK, there. seems like some pent up anger with Cowherd. 😂 And I'm not sure, but the "leadership" ended up 6-10? Dorsey had no chance.  

[Icecube]

8 hours ago, hoorta said:

Already said it Gipper, you're not paying attention.  Take a look at the link- waaayyyy down there at the bottom, you have the Pittsburgh Steelers with negative cap room. They're going to have to get real creative, or dump a lot of salary to get under the cap. Franchise tag for a linebacker was $15 million last year. They can think about franchising him- now who they going to cut to do so?   

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/

Really, none of that matters if Ben isn't playing. 8-8 team, irrelevant. IF, against the odds, Ben stays healthy (relatively) whole nother kettle of fish. 

[Flugel]

5 hours ago, Icecube said:

I'm not sure, but the "leadership" ended up 6-10? Dorsey had no chance.  

Dorsey was the leadership.  This team was the sum of his decisions.  When you say no chance you mean the poor guy didn't inherit any reasonable draft volumes inclusive of a #1 overall pick or any money to spend.  Yeah, that poor guy never had 1 chance.  And when 2 of his ideas for LT end up in jail/prison - we're gonna still need a LT.  And, like you say if a guy can play in a Pro Bowl and lead the league in tackles - you have to get rid of that productivity if his name isn't Ray Lewis.  3 openings at LBer are better than 2 openings especially if you're worried about overpaying guys via FA.  It feels like we have more openings going into 2020 than we had going into 2019. 

Zombo had the best take on how we could have re-signed/extended Schobert for way less cake than the open market of FA.  He even pointed out the guy isn't the greatest of all time while he expressed disappointment we've thrown away time wasted in developing the guy for another team to get him at his best football.  

So where are we?  You've gone from being Dorsey's biggest critic throughout 2019 to being his biggest fan in this thread.  Good for you!

[The Gipper]

9 hours ago, hoorta said:

What your hearing and reading is a blast of silly season hot air. Teams have a couple more weeks to franchise tag a player. We'll see soon enough.  

But...you are saying that the Steeler have absolutely NO cap room to even think about  putting the franchise tag on any player, no? 

And, I am assuming that the only  part they have to play in this upcoming Free Agency season is to get rid of guys that can then be signed by other teams?

So, besides Dupree likely, who else on that team is going to be saying Sayonara.   (and no, BR certainly is not one of them)

And then the question is:    with the Browns needs now at  DL...or LB.....should they consider nabbing Dupree  if/when he become available?

[hoorta]

3 hours ago, The Gipper said:

But...you are saying that the Steeler have absolutely NO cap room to even think about  putting the franchise tag on any player, no? 

And, I am assuming that the only  part they have to play in this upcoming Free Agency season is to get rid of guys that can then be signed by other teams?

So, besides Dupree likely, who else on that team is going to be saying Sayonara.   (and no, BR certainly is not one of them)

And then the question is:    with the Browns needs now at  DL...or LB.....should they consider nabbing Dupree  if/when he become available?

Gip- here's how I see it, and our cap guru Tour can correct me if I'm wrong. The franchise tag for a linebacker will be in the vicinity of $15 million. The Steelers are currently $2 million under water in cap room. So they would need to clear around $17 million if they want to franchise Dupree. That doesn't mean they couldn't work out a long term cap friendly deal. 

Had to research this for you- Dupree is an OLB- and those guys get paid plenty, should he hit the open market. Both Von Miller and Kahlil Mack got contracts on the high side of $100 million. Bud had 13 sacks last year, so he's going to command top 5 compensation at the position. Probably in the range of at least $70 million MHO.     Of course, pairing him with Garrett would have offensive coordinators peeing their pants. 

Now would our anal-itics guys spend all that loot? I doubt it. Especially since they don't want to pay Joe. But the departed Mr. Dorsey probably would consider it. 

PS Regarding the Steelers. Ben is the elephant in the room, and he's not going anywhere this year- to the tune of a $33 million cap hit. 

[Icecube]

9 hours ago, Flugel said:

Dorsey was the leadership.  This team was the sum of his decisions.  When you say no chance you mean the poor guy didn't inherit any reasonable draft volumes inclusive of a #1 overall pick or any money to spend.  Yeah, that poor guy never had 1 chance.  And when 2 of his ideas for LT end up in jail/prison - we're gonna still need a LT.  And, like you say if a guy can play in a Pro Bowl and lead the league in tackles - you have to get rid of that productivity if his name isn't Ray Lewis.  3 openings at LBer are better than 2 openings especially if you're worried about overpaying guys via FA.  It feels like we have more openings going into 2020 than we had going into 2019. 

Zombo had the best take on how we could have re-signed/extended Schobert for way less cake than the open market of FA.  He even pointed out the guy isn't the greatest of all time while he expressed disappointment we've thrown away time wasted in developing the guy for another team to get him at his best football.  

So where are we?  You've gone from being Dorsey's biggest critic throughout 2019 to being his biggest fan in this thread.  Good for you!

Nice strawman argument. Very impressive. I accurately predicted their erroneous moves last season. Then I accurately asserted it wasn't all on Dorsey - Mr. Jimmy is a meddling owner. 

[Bigalow80]

The Browns have not done what Atlanta did and stated that they are definitely not going to resign certain players with Schobert yet. I believe all they said was that they were going to let him test the market out. They already missed their chance to sign him to a less lucrative deal a year or so ago, so I don't necessarily think that it's a bad thing to let him see what he can get. He may listen to offers and see that no one is going to pay him 15+ million per year. The Browns would then know what the market is dictating. I wouldn't be surprised if they put a transition tag on him just to have the opportunity to match. Every team has to make tough decisions. 

[Flugel]

2 hours ago, Icecube said:

Nice strawman argument. Very impressive. I accurately predicted their erroneous moves last season. Then I accurately asserted it wasn't all on Dorsey - Mr. Jimmy is a meddling owner. 

😄 Who's kidding who?  You had 1 public panic attack after another about Dorsey but now you're his biggest fan today. 

Colin Cowherd would be so proud... 

[Icecube]

11 minutes ago, Flugel said:

😄 Who's kidding who?  You had 1 public panic attack after another about Dorsey but now you're his biggest fan today. 

Colin Cowherd would be so proud... 

Strawman singing in the dead of night....

Take these broken wings and learn to fly
All your life
You were only waiting for this moment to arise

Strawman singing in the dead of night
Take these sunken eyes and learn to see
All your life

You were only waiting for this moment to be free

Strawman fly, strawman fly
Into the light of a dark black night

Strawman fly, strawman fly
Into the light of a dark black night

Strawman singing in the dead of night…

 

 

[Icecube]

12 hours ago, Flugel said:

Dorsey was the leadership.  This team was the sum of his decisions.  When you say no chance you mean the poor guy didn't inherit any reasonable draft volumes inclusive of a #1 overall pick or any money to spend.  Yeah, that poor guy never had 1 chance.  And when 2 of his ideas for LT end up in jail/prison - we're gonna still need a LT.  And, like you say if a guy can play in a Pro Bowl and lead the league in tackles - you have to get rid of that productivity if his name isn't Ray Lewis.  3 openings at LBer are better than 2 openings especially if you're worried about overpaying guys via FA.  It feels like we have more openings going into 2020 than we had going into 2019. 

Zombo had the best take on how we could have re-signed/extended Schobert for way less cake than the open market of FA.  He even pointed out the guy isn't the greatest of all time while he expressed disappointment we've thrown away time wasted in developing the guy for another team to get him at his best football.  

So where are we?  You've gone from being Dorsey's biggest critic throughout 2019 to being his biggest fan in this thread.  Good for you!

Strawman singing in the dead of night...........

[TexasAg1969]

1 hour ago, Icecube said:

Strawman singing in the dead of night...........

You must have watched The Voice last night. That guy was really good. Sang it better than Paul did.

[Orion]

Shobert is a good pass coverage MLB.  (kinda' rare)  He's a good team mate. A good character guy.  Makes a ton of tackles and is on the field almost every play.  Hardly ever gets hurt and misses time.  He's a smart player although not the strongest guy on the field.  If he's being blocked, then he's blocked...but he usually uses his smarts not to BE blocked.

I wish we could keep him.  Especially because if we lose him then we'll need to play a safety more often on passing downs.....and we're thin in that area too.

When a team has plenty of holes to fill, it sucks when you have to let guys walk and thus create more holes.

[Nero]

I'll just say that Schobert is better than the rest of the LBs we have at the moment and we don't have an amazing group. 

He has all the traits I want in a defensive leader though he's not an explosive player and neither a difference maker. Anyway, he has made a difference being a key player in our defense in some games with INTs, fumble recoveries etc. 

One thought that goes through my mind just to stay optimistic is that they want him to check the market, then come back and match the best bidder. I just hope so. 

[Tour2ma]

13 hours ago, Nero said:

I'll just say that Schobert is better than the rest of the LBs we have at the moment and we don't have an amazing group. 

I guess the art of the backhanded compliment is universal...

[stillmotion]

On 3/2/2020 at 3:49 PM, Ibleedbrown said:

A book. They made a movie about too. It’s about a creepy clown.

The new "IT" was awful compared to the original.

[stillmotion]

On 3/2/2020 at 3:33 PM, Tour2ma said:

Again I have to ask a poster... What is "it"?

He's a leader, he loves Cleveland, he works hard, wants to be here, makes players like Mack Wilson better and pushes them, and can't be replaced in the draft.

The "It" factor is that he's a probowler when he's healthy and good.

I'm all for analytics, but we aren't winning any games with no safeties or linebackers next year.

I'm just hoping we don't continue to not resign veteran players and not replace them, or replace them with practice squad level players.

[The Gipper]

10 minutes ago, stillmotion said:

He's a leader, he loves Cleveland, he works hard, wants to be here, makes players like Mack Wilson better and pushes them, and can't be replaced in the draft.

The "It" factor is that he's a probowler when he's healthy and good.

I'm all for analytics, but we aren't winning any games with no safeties or linebackers next year.

I'm just hoping we don't continue to not resign veteran players and not replace them, or replace them with practice squad level players.

Fair statement, as, with NFL defenders, you can't really just boil it down to this:

 

[Tour2ma]

On 3/6/2020 at 9:42 AM, stillmotion said:

He's a leader, he loves Cleveland, he works hard, wants to be here, makes players like Mack Wilson better and pushes them, and can't be replaced in the draft.

The "It" factor is that he's a probowler when he's healthy and good.

I'm all for analytics, but we aren't winning any games with no safeties or linebackers next year.

I'm just hoping we don't continue to not resign veteran players and not replace them, or replace them with practice squad level players.

I get the intangibles argument... but that was not what I was asking.

In the contextof someone (you) saying, "He is worth it," the "it" is how much...

So how much are you willing to pay Joe?

[Flugel]

On 3/2/2020 at 8:45 PM, The Gipper said:

I don't know.....

Are you sure?

[The Gipper]

31 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Are you sure?

When?

[Flugel]

On 3/4/2020 at 1:29 AM, Nero said:

One thought that goes through my mind just to stay optimistic is that they want him to check the market, then come back and match the best bidder. I just hope so. 

Kind of good news on your point here. The NFL Channel listed the top 10 FAs and he isn't one of them.

Maybe it's a good thing he played through the bad hammy in 2018 so people only remember they year he missed too many tackles.  Having said that, he played in a Pro Bowl in 2017 with 144 combined tackles - while some people think his best season was in 2019 with 133 combined tackles, 4 INTs and 2 forced fumbles.  With this guy people are going to see what they want to see.  My shattered rose colored glasses still see a walk-on at Wisconsin that was eventually developed into the Big 10 Defensive Player of the Year.    Wisconsin was rewarded for their patience in developing the lad.

When he arrived in Cleveland as an OLB, he didn't emerge immediately.  In fact, he didn't play his best football until after Gregg Williams moved him inside.  The irony of it all is Williams opted to train a rookie Safety (Peppers) by lining him up in Toronto, which means the MLB already responsible for both inside hook zones in pass coverage now has those extended far deeper than reasonable.  Still did a pretty good job in coverage considering.  Then, our last DC only used 2 LBers the majority of the time.

Since it's FA - we're just going to have to decide who is worth overpaying.  The part I hate about it most is this franchise developed him to the point he is playing his best football meeting/exceeding the expectation; and now another team will benefit from that while Cleveland is still in search of continuity in the LBer Corps (now in need of 3 new starters). Maybe we'll find a bargain FA like Tampa did last year when they signed OLB Shaq Barrett (previously a backup in Denver) only to get 19.5 sacks from the guy.  Sounds like the only thing wrong with the guy was Von Miller was the guy ahead of him on depth chart. We shall see...