Isaiah Simmons would be nice, but what if Derrick Brown falls to the Browns at No. 10?

[Vambo]

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/02/sure-isaiah-simmons-would-be-nice-but-what-if-derrick-brown-falls-to-the-browns-at-no-10.html

INDIANAPOLIS – Clemson versatile linebacker Isaiah Simmons falling to the Browns at No. 10 in the draft is the kind of hypothetical that can make you question the need for a left tackle.

But he’s not the only player worthy of making the Browns think defense at No. 10.

Auburn defensive tackle Derrick Brown, the reigning SEC Defensive Player of the Year, could be just what the Browns are looking for on their defensive line.

In mock drafts, Brown is often slotted at No. 7 to the Panthers or No. 9 to the Jaguars, the first interior defensive lineman off the board.

This is what NFL.com draft analyst Lance Zierlein wrote about Brown: “Defensive tackle with rare combination of size and disruptive traits who frequently bludgeoned inferior competition across from him. … He could become a high-impact starter early in his career with an All-Pro ceiling and good starter floor.”

Brown had 17 hurries and five sacks last season while earning Pro Football Focus grades of 90.6 in pass rush and 86.9 in run defense.

Also, he’s versatile. Brown saw snaps for the Tigers everywhere from nose tackle to defensive end, not unlike what the Browns have done with Myles Garrett.

“A lot of teams don’t even scout for defensive tackles, they scout for defensive linemen,” Brown said Thursday at the NFL combine. “They want to find guys that can play positions across the board.”

If he falls to the Browns, they would be staring at a player that could help their struggling run defense.

Opponents ran at the interior of the Browns’ defensive line on 65 percent of running plays last season. Only the Steelers, Cardinals and Bills saw more inside runs. The Browns were 22nd in adjusted line yards (4.55 yards per carry) on inside runs, and that helped the defense give up 144.7 rushing yards per game, third-most in the league.

Larry Ogunjobi was the weakest link in the middle. His PFF grade vs. the run has gone from 85.0 to 70.8 to 60.2 in his three seasons. Sheldon Richardson, while not at the level he reached early in his career, finished third on the team in tackles and had the highest run defense grade (75.1) among the defensive linemen.

Last season’s front office pursued free-agent defensive tackles like Gerald McCoy and Mike Daniels after signing Richardson.

Brown measured at 6-4, 326 pounds at the combine. He would be the largest defensive lineman on the Browns, just edging out Eli Ankou.

Despite the size, Brown is known for his explosiveness. Many SEC offensive lineman have said this week at the combine that Brown was the toughest defensive lineman they faced.

“I just try to impose my will on people,” he said.

The Browns might want to consider letting him do it in Cleveland.

[calfoxwc]

Excellent question. btw, I think with Ogunjobi - the interior run failure is due party to, imho, a defensive emphasis on pass rushing.

He had 5.5 sacks, and that is tough with injuries to our starting db's....and safety play.

   As to Derrick Brown? I believe the OT class is well deep enough to wait til later - find a few gems there. There are out there.

Derrick Brown is good enough to go #1 overall in a draft where the top ten doesn't need qb's/ot's. If it was me, I couldn't pass on Brown - he would make the dline rotation one of the best in the NFL - and he can play anywhere on the line. That is scary stuff.

Personally, I hate to take an OT tackle so high - but, with Simmons and Brown gone, I'm good with it. The trouble is, if Simmons or especially Brown - the exception would be Joe Thomas.

You hope to have your high first round pick to be a dynamic instant starter - a huge difference maker from day one. But are there other dlinemen somewhere near Brown's ability? Probably not - he's THAT good.

Passing on Derrick Brown would be really dumb. But the Jags and Detroit are destined to take top defensive players - and Simmons, Brown, especially Young, will be gone, I think.

[tiamat63]

Brown is a hell of a player, but my personal philosophy is that quality DI players can be found in the mid rounds with a few given exceptions.    The early to mid 2000's Gmen built their lines in a similar mold that I believe in which (now) can also be applied to how I view the RB position (again, given rare exceptions).    

While I think he's talented, I don't see Derrick being so dominant that I would view him as the exception.   

Then again, I've only watched a couple games of his.

[Orion]

Did we set up our offensive tackle positions already?  

If so, then pick whoever you want at #10.

[The Gipper]

The sooner you guys all sign up for the Browns Board Mock Draft,  the sooner we can see who the Browns will take....at least according to that.  Only 10 teams have been picked up so far, so the field is wide open for all y'all. 

[gumby73]

atta boy Herbert, keep dropping them dimes, so other position talent will keep dropping towards #10...

Easy choice from ACC Country...ya take the defensive hybrid player of the year 👁️Simmons.. the only defensive position he did not play was DT... your covering one TE sets issues go away

[tiamat63]

Herbert looking like a strong armed version of blaine gabbert.

[Tour2ma]

I don't have Simmons on my board. Folks are enamored with his athleticism, but he's an athlete in search of a position.

Talk of him playing Safety is ludicrous and he's not strong enough to flourish in the box.

 

Derrick Brown? I'd consider him at #10 if both my OTs, Burrow and Young were gone. If Brown were gone, then I'd also consider Kinlaw, but either IDL would be competing with trade-down offers for value.

[TexasAg1969]

4 hours ago, The Gipper said:

The sooner you guys all sign up for the Browns Board Mock Draft,  the sooner we can see who the Browns will take....at least according to that.  Only 10 teams have been picked up so far, so the field is wide open for all y'all. 

I sense a lack of enthusiasm for the BB mock this year. I guess last year we were all expecting much bigger things than were actually delivered and so the ship of fools is kind of floundering this year. Can't blame anybody for a ho hum here we are again kind of malaise. Think I'll have glass of wine and go to bed.😴

[Orion]

31 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

I don't have Simmons on my board. Folks are enamored with his athleticism, but he's an athlete in search of a position.

 

....and that's the thing.  Where does he 'really' play?  Jack of all trades, master of none?  

[gumby73]

Jacks of all trades.. are now called nfl hybrid jokers..bet joe woods can find a place for a top 5 nfl prospect.. https://pff.com/news/college-football-clemsons-isaiah-simmons-is-the-perfect-modern-day-linebacker   

I now could see the Lions #3, trading out to the highest bidder of #5 Mia. or LAC#6 to draft Herbert at #3..Lions needs should go.. Simmons or Okuda at #5 or 6..

read ya, Hog Molly Friday 🐗

[calfoxwc]

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

I don't have Simmons on my board. Folks are enamored with his athleticism, but he's an athlete in search of a position.

Talk of him playing Safety is ludicrous and he's not strong enough to flourish in the box.

Derrick Brown? I'd consider him at #10 if both my OTs, Burrow and Young were gone. If Brown were gone, then I'd also consider Kinlaw, but either IDL would be competing with trade-down offers for value.

Dumb? question:

Simmons, 6'3"/6'4", 230-238 lbs, 92.5 coverage grade, NFL.com grade 7.02..., legit 4.4 speed. 104 tackles (16½ for losses), eight sacks, three interceptions and eight pass break-ups. I agree he won't play safety - but I think he can be all pro as a coverage lb, sideline to sideline play stopper - and behind the los play disrupter. Is it far fetched to see him as a Ray Lewis type player? Lewis was very ,very fast, 6'1", 240. I'd hate to pass on a player that could end up all pro.

 

 

[Tour2ma]

Not dumb...

I see 6'1, 240 and think "power"... especially when I know it's Ray Ray being described. He ran a 4.58 at the Combine. His gift was read and react... and shed and destroy.

I see 6'4, 235 and think "rangey"... a very different player. I agree the coverage is there, but I know I run at him early and often if I am game-planning against him.

Don't worry... we'll pass on a bunch of All-Pros. What's worse is spending a #1 on a player who does not make All-Pro.

2 hours ago, gumby73 said:

Jacks of all trades.. are now called nfl hybrid jokers..bet joe woods can find a place for a top 5 nfl prospect.. https://pff.com/news/college-football-clemsons-isaiah-simmons-is-the-perfect-modern-day-linebacker   

I now could see the Lions #3, trading out to the highest bidder of #5 Mia. or LAC#6 to draft Herbert at #3..Lions needs should go.. Simmons or Okuda at #5 or 6..

I've read the PFF... just not sold. I did not see Simmons' impact in either of Clemson's playoff games this year.

A lot of the sims I've run keep having Simmons go to NYG at #4.

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

I don’t know if we have the luxury of drafting a defensive player with such a need for an LT. I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a trade up a few spots 

[Louisville Slugger]

I've been a huge fan of Derrick Brown since last year. I think hes a safe pick and would be happy if hes our guy... but Kinlaw is a guy that I think might be a star. He is just as big as Brown but Kinlaw is more explosive. I haven't had time to do a ton of research yet but Kinlaw jumps off the screen.

Also I'm not a huge fan of these OTs (I haven't watched any of Wirfs so I cant knock him). Bectons potential is nice but as a Louisville fan I've seen how awful that Oline has been. Last year was a vast improvement but Petrino didnt even try his last few years here. I would get an old vet for a year and get a developmental guy in the middle rounds. I think Lamm might actually be a decent fit at RT in this zone scheme.

[SdBacker80]

I’m not crazy about Simmons.  If he was an elite pass rusher coupled with his coverage skills I’d be there but then he would also be a top 5 pick. 

And I hate picking Olineman in the first round.  

Back in the day Joe Thomas was a no brainer he was a complete player even with AP there- I was okay with that. 

Cam Erving? No thanks and look what happened.

Alex Mack? I was still thinking nope but he turned out well.

Truth is we’ve hit on more than we missed compared to any other position. 

Id stay at 10 or fall back a bit and take the best OT.  Unless for some strange reason we can move up and take either Ohio state defender Young or Okudah.  I don’t think either will happen but I’d give up quite a bit to get Young.  

 

[SdBacker80]

7 hours ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

I don’t know if we have the luxury of drafting a defensive player with such a need for an LT. I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a trade up a few spots 

It seems like there are no elite LT and quite a few rated around each other Becton, Thomas, Wirfs, Wills, Jones.  None of these guys IMO are worth trading up for.  In fact, I’m sure the Browns have crossed 2/3 off the list and they may not even be the guys other teams want which would easily have them fall back some spots and take one.

there are 3 or 4 QB hungry teams right in row behind us maybe one of them moves into our spot and we still can take one of those mentioned above 

[SdBacker80]

9 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

Dumb? question:

Simmons, 6'3"/6'4", 230-238 lbs, 92.5 coverage grade, NFL.com grade 7.02..., legit 4.4 speed. 104 tackles (16½ for losses), eight sacks, three interceptions and eight pass break-ups. I agree he won't play safety - but I think he can be all pro as a coverage lb, sideline to sideline play stopper - and behind the los play disrupter. Is it far fetched to see him as a Ray Lewis type player? Lewis was very ,very fast, 6'1", 240. I'd hate to pass on a player that could end up all pro.

 

 

Or Aaron Curry?  Curry was a little more stout but he played in coverage a lot in college and was great in coverage too.  

[tiamat63]

My issue with the Browns taking Simmons isn't one of talent - but of usage.    I'll echo @Tour2ma here for a moment but for my own reasons.    Simmons is a player you're going to have to work your ass off to make him as effective as possible on an every down basis.  He'll have to be moved around a great deal.   Like... damn near every snap. 

I have to keep in mind Aqib Talib's comments about coach Woods, one that shouldn't sit lightly with anyone.     When Wade Phillips departed Denver, Woods cut the play book down a good deal.   I truly believe a solid part of that was for his own benefit.  Being a first time coach isn't easy and it can be overwhelming at times.  You need to have a set of calls you can trust, are completely comfortable calling and are familiar in checking in/out of.    With those calls come personnel groupings, alignments and assignments.    Taking a true chess piece such as Simmons might only serve to complicate matters further for Woods who is still quite a young coach.      Because instead of focusing on expanding his playbook as a unit, he is now putting in some real considerable time tailoring his defense, specifically his back 7, around finding the mold of what works best for a rookie. 

I just don't see it as a union that would benefit our team as a whole.  Sure, we may gain a talented player.   But we may gain it at the expense of not having the environment to properly use the skill set to its maximum effectiveness.   This is a reflection on where we are as a collective as a coaching staff.       With a more veteran leader? Sure...  sign me TF up.    With Woods? Sometimes less is more.      

TL;DR.    No point in buying a mustang if you can only drive it during rush hour.

[Tour2ma]

That's a helluva, free-range echo...

[Orion]

So we drafted Simmons...and on opening day we're sending the defense onto the field....where does he play?  How many safeties go onto the field with him?  How many LB'ers?, How many DLinemen?  

Does he play at the LOS on 1st down, LB'er on 2nd down and safety on 3rd?

[tiamat63]

44 minutes ago, Orion said:

So we drafted Simmons...and on opening day we're sending the defense onto the field....where does he play?  How many safeties go onto the field with him?  How many LB'ers?, How many DLinemen?  

Does he play at the LOS on 1st down, LB'er on 2nd down and safety on 3rd?

Can't answer that without know who the opposing team is, what they put on tape the previous season, what we feel they might do now, personnel and schematic strengths, weaknesses... etc etc.

 

He could be the 7th or 8th man in certain fronts.   He might play a dime linebacker?  Split out against move TE's?  Who knows?

[gumby73]

On 2/27/2020 at 8:08 PM, gumby73 said:

Easy choice from ACC Country...ya take the defensive hybrid player of the year 👁️Simmons.. the only defensive position he did not play was DT... 

can i brag just this one time?  Simmons "All i want'a do is Z00m..Z00m..Zoom..."  to a 4.39 40... I'll stand on that one at 240 lbs.. ties for 5th overall in 40's. 'let me chase Lamar'... 

[calfoxwc]

1 hour ago, gumby73 said:

can i brag just this one time?  Simmons "All i want'a do is Z00m..Z00m..Zoom..."  to a 4.39 40... I'll stand on that one at 240 lbs.. ties for 5th overall in 40's. 'let me chase Lamar'... 

it didn't occur to me til yesterday.... that another linebacker I met in college - I and a few friends collected several extra tickets from other students who weren't going...- for a bunch of his and his roommate's family and friends for a big game. The guy who called was TE Gary Pinkel, and the linebacker's name was...

Jack Lambert.  They both stopped in for the tickets and told us they really appreciated it...for a few seconds I met him again at the Robin Hood Inn a few weeks later - Jack was certainly tall, but at 6'4", he only weighed in about 223 lbs. Of course, that was long ago - but he slammed people with leverage and violence, and he was sideline to sideline. He looked lanky, but I wouldn't say skinny.

Interesting -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Lambert_(American_football)

"Lambert was the prototypical middle linebacker for what became the Tampa Two defense. Bud Carson, in his "Double-Rotating Zone" defense where safeties played back in a two-deep zone and the corner-backs played in two shallow zones or in bump-and-run coverage, instead of having the middle linebacker close to the line in run support, had the middle linebacker drop back into a middle zone to cover the seam between the safeties. Middle linebackers had not been tasked in such a way previously (Dick Butkus and Ray Nitschke being the epitomes of the run-support middle linebacker), but Lambert's size, speed, and talents facilitated the new role.^[4]"

^{*************************************************************}

I haven't seen Simmons slamming people into the turf like that - but maybe his weight isn't going to keep him from being a great player. who knows?

[Tour2ma]

2 hours ago, gumby73 said:

Simmons "All i want'a do is Z00m..Z00m..Zoom..."  to a 4.39 40... I'll stand on that one at 240 lbs.. ties for 5th overall in 40's. 'let me chase Lamar'... 

I'll let the bench slide, but no 3-cone or shuttle? Think he cherry-picked his events much?

We know Lamar doesn't run in a straight line.

 

[TexasAg1969]

7 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

I'll let the bench slide, but no 3-cone or shuttle? Think he cherry-picked his events much?

We know Lamar doesn't run in a straight line.

 

Need a pro day and see what he does in the other events. Or bring him in for a private workout.

[Dutch Oven]

9 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

I'll let the bench slide, but no 3-cone or shuttle? Think he cherry-picked his events much?

We know Lamar doesn't run in a straight line.

 

Or can he dodge a wrench?

 

[gumby73]

      see, easy. peasy..  may we might see Jeff Okudah taking a possible slide? 4.48 40 sat at 11th in 1st group.. looked stiff as heck in early drills too.. 3)lions. 6)LAC 7)Car. & 9)Jags... have a primary need for CB.(maybe QB too?)... I'll be now taking cover under my truck for a Oil Change   hitting record...  Dollars for Dugger's 💰 get ya sum..

[The Gipper]

31 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

      see, easy. peasy..  may we might see Jeff Okudah taking a possible slide? 4.48 40 sat at 11th in 1st group.. looked stiff as heck in early drills too.. 3)lions. 6)LAC 7)Car. & 9)Jags... have a primary need for CB.(maybe QB too?)... I'll be now taking cover under my truck for a Oil Change   hitting record...  Dollars for Dugger's 💰 get ya sum..

Beware the Ides of the NFL Combine.      What did the guy look like playing football?    It would be nice if he dropped.  The Browns would have to do some serious thinking about taking him. 

[MLD Woody]

Here's hoping we can utilize the athletic, positionless defensive player...

 

 

I vote we draft Simmons and have him stand 35 yards from the LOS