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Westside Steve

Mock Drafts Thread

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Hey since there's not already another official thread for mock drafts......

I realize posting every single one separately is going to clutter up the joint.

I would think twice about drafting a huge tackle who already needs to lose some weight, that doesn't seem to happen once they make millions of dollars.

https://dawgpounddaily.com/2020/02/21/cleveland-browns-double-tackles-7-round-mock-draft/amp/2/

WSS

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2 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

Hey if there's already in official thread for Mike draft feel free to move this one over there.

I realize posting every single one is going to clutter The Joint up.

I would think twice about drafting a huge tackle who already needs to lose some weight, that doesn't seem to happen once they make millions of dollars.

https://dawgpounddaily.com/2020/02/21/cleveland-browns-double-tackles-7-round-mock-draft/amp/2/

WSS

Interesting - I'd have to take some time to look at that one. One similarity - that Bryant db? about the same size as the one I drafted in the sixth round. Interesting.

Offhand, I'd hate to take Mekhi so high, and have him have trouble with speed rushers  - and I'd hate to pass on him and have him be all-pro at LT. lol

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41 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

Interesting - I'd have to take some time to look at that one. One similarity - that Bryant db? about the same size as the one I drafted in the sixth round. Interesting.

Offhand, I'd hate to take Mekhi so high, and have him have trouble with speed rushers  - and I'd hate to pass on him and have him be all-pro at LT. lol

No doubt that's the best possible scenario. Here's where I questioned relying too much on Analytics, in football desire work ethic Etc are so very important. That's where you need not only a football guy but a football guy that knows people. Crapshoot? Sure but what the hell your odds might be a little better the guy who's positives are on the attitude side rather than on the numbers side 

 

WSS

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Here's the thing about mocks... they are nearly impossible to judge because you don't know who the other available options were when each pick was made.

That said...

  1. Becton (OT) - still can't get comfortable with his size; he's my #4 OT at the moment.
  2. Jackson (OT) - feels like fools' gold; too many other good options at other positions.
  3. Davis (FS) - love this pick; next to McKinney my favorite FS in the class.
  4. Dye (OLB) - another fav in a limited LB class.
  5. Jones (FS) - can work as an SS; one of the better economy Safeties in the Draft.
  6. Bryant (CB) - don't know him; smallest CB in the draft
  7. Victor (WR) - ton of flawed WRs will be here late, taking one of the taller ones makes little sense to me.

Bottom line... I can get behind the middle three picks here, but find the opening and ending pairs to be highly questionable.

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Tour I like your offensive line takes so here's a question. Do you think it's better to draft pickguard who's been a guard all along or a tackle and convert him?

WSS

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Here's a question. Given all the "smart guy"🤑🤑 moneyball men in the room, what are the chances we trade down from our #10 overall?

Let's call it "smarty pants" Part II.😁

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11 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

Tour I like your offensive line takes so here's a question. Do you think it's better to draft pickguard who's been a guard all along or a tackle and convert him?

Thanks... and I like your movie reviews...

While it's easier to evaluate a prospect playing the position you expect him to play for you... ultimately I don't think it matters, Steve.

Ultimately whether an OT moves inside depends on several factors starting with his physical measurements, athleticism and the size of the school that produced the prospect. Measurements now focus on arm length/ wingspan. Then comes evaluation of a prospects strength/agility mix plus balance. Different attribute sets are because OTs "play in space" whereas IOLs "play in a phone booth".

Smaller D-1s (FBS?) and all the lesser divisions are going to put their best, most athletic OL talent at OT. It then becomes a matter of whether they are built to play that position as a Pro. A lot of these kids move inside, if they make it to the Pros. On the other hand the power five conferences are more likely to attract OL talent that will play OG and OC because they've recruited even better talent to play OT. It should be noted that much of the collegiate "IOL talent" likely played OT in HS... so it's kinda the same projection process.

That said the above is hardly a firm rule as shown by Iowa's OT, Wirfs being projected as an OG. DraftScout has him as their top OG in this class. Wirfs' 2015 Alumni, Brandon Scherff, on the other hand was projected as an OT, but after WSH took him 5th overall, they found out he had to move inside... where he's flourished. In 2014 Bito was projected inside, after playing OT at Nevada.

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12 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Here's a question. Given all the "smart guy"🤑🤑 moneyball men in the room, what are the chances we trade down from our #10 overall?

Let's call it "smarty pants" Part II.😁

I think they are low, Ag...

While I'm not a "need-based drafter" I do use need as a way to order prospect in my groupings and in my top grouping I have two players higher than Wills at #3 and Thomas at #4... Burrow and Young. I am confidant that 1 of the 4 players will be there at #10. I actually had Young fall to me at #10 last nite in the FirstPick sim... I took him of course... :)

 

But never say never... if none of the four are there, then I hope we can find a good trade partner.

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13 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

what are the chances we trade down from our #10 overall?

If the OT's they like are not there, it would not surprise me.  They liked to do that when Berry was here before.

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9 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

I think they are low, Ag...

While I'm not a "need-based drafter" I do use need as a way to order prospect in my groupings and in my top grouping I have two players higher than Wills at #3 and Thomas at #4... Burrow and Young. I am confidant that 1 of the 4 players will be there at #10. I actually had Young fall to me at #10 last nite in the FirstPick sim... I took him of course... :)

 

But never say never... if none of the four are there, then I hope we can find a good trade partner.

 

8 hours ago, Orion said:

If the OT's they like are not there, it would not surprise me.  They liked to do that when Berry was here before.

I think if Wills is still there we take him (I'm 99% sure Thomas is already gone unless we do the unthinkable, trade up for him). If both are gone I think there is a better than even change we trade down low enough to justify a lessor OT talent. God knows we need the highest we can get though. I would not be against a trade up, but not sure that is even in the moneyball equation.

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7 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

I would not be against a trade up, but not sure that is even in the moneyball equation.

It is...

If the draft eVALUation says moving up to take a single prospect is worth more than the two (or three) you'd net if you stay put, then you make the move.

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1 minute ago, Tour2ma said:

It is...

If the draft eVALUation says moving up to take a single prospect is worth more than the two (or three) you'd net if you stay put, then you make the move.

I think Thomas would be one of those to consider moving up for then.

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3 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

I think Thomas would be one of those to consider moving up for then.

While I can see the temptation as I noted above I rate Wills higher due to higher floor vs. Thomas' possibly higher ceiling.

Other factors include the number of other prospects that are vying to be a top ten pick including up to 3 QBs, an Edge, 2 CBs, a LB and 2 DTs. That's 9 total. Add that Wirfs is still also getting top ten love and that Becton and Jones are still viable choices in the bottom half of R1, and I don't see a move up.

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3 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

While I can see the temptation as I noted above I rate Wills higher due to higher floor vs. Thomas' possibly higher ceiling.

My only bother on Wills is, he protected Tua's blindside by playing his bama career all at RT..am i missing game-tape on Wills playing any LT? These Wills game cut-ups are beastly https://pantherswire.usatoday.com/2020/02/19/2020-nfl-draft-prospect-alabama-jedrick-wills/  

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Our tackles are going to have to be fleet of foot.  Stefanski likes to zone block and run wide.

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1 hour ago, gumby73 said:

My only bother on Wills is, he protected Tua's blindside by playing his bama career all at RT..am i missing game-tape on Wills playing any LT? These Wills game cut-ups are beastly https://pantherswire.usatoday.com/2020/02/19/2020-nfl-draft-prospect-alabama-jedrick-wills/  

 Damn... those vids reminded me how good a healthy Tua looked...

Point taken on Wills, but it's not as if his right-side tech is highly developed/ingrained... ;)

Bring him in... work him out... see how he looks at LT. Hell... he might look even better!

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7 minutes ago, Orion said:

Our tackles are going to have to be fleet of foot.  Stefanski likes to zone block and run wide.

While they can't be turtles, lightness of foot (agility) and ability to think/react on the move are more important attributes than flat-out speed in the ZBS. The 3-cone and short-shuttle are big here. Unfortunately the actual drills are usually not shown; we only get to see the final times.

Also need to have fluid hips. The drill where OL chop their feet while backing away from a coach who flips them from side to side is very revealing.

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I have all my trust in Bill Callahan finding the right guy...pay close attention to the private visit list to Berea..18 minutes at combine is a cup of coffee..when Callahan gets them to a day in berea? am thinking were jumping Zona at pick 8? 

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1 minute ago, gumby73 said:

am thinking were jumping Zona at pick 8? 

At what price to grab who?

Agree on Callahan (Dirty William???)... my fav Position Coach hiring.

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imo. It's Will's or Thomas with no LT on our roster..  and we might lose both sitting at #10... can't risk Jones being around in 2nd & Becton is winning on raw power with zero in tech..Callahan can school any of them..but how many lives does Haslam have left?

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Fresh mock from Dawg Pound Daily...

https://dawgpounddaily.com/2020/03/03/cleveland-browns-post-scouting-combine-7-round-mock-draft/6/

1. Mekhi Becton (OT, UL) - figures that the morning after I trash him...

2. Antoine Winfield (S, MN) - I see other options as much better options both at this pick and later.

3a. Troy Dye (OLB, Oregon) - he's not Baun, but he's a good one...

3b. Leki Fotu (IDL, Utah) - while one of the "best of the rest", I see a one dimensional player in Danny's mold. There are much better choices that might be around for our 2nd pick. I also see (and mocked) a good alternative and a much better value with a late, Day 4 price tag.

4. Shane Lemieux (IOL, Oregon) - hardly the best in the draft, but a good one that I've simmed regularly to us; very good ZBS OG.

6. Myles Bryant (CB, Washington) - don't know him... Draft Network has him ranked too high to last this long and PFF has a 4th round grade on him.

7. Stephen Sullivan (TE, LSU) - decent receiving talent for this late of a pick and one I've simmed here more than a few times, but I have a feeling that his Combine showing means he'll not be here when we pick for real.

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Starting to see Jeremy Chinn as my mid-late round "box" safety.

As much as it would be cool to see Winfield on the back of a Browns jersey.

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1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

Starting to see Jeremy Chinn as my mid-late round "box" safety.

As much as it would be cool to see Winfield on the back of a Browns jersey.

Jeremy Chinn vs Kyle Dugger - really going to be an interesting read.

https://www.si.com/nfl/lions/news/draft-profile-south-illinois-safety-jeremy-chinn

Draft Profile: South Illinois Safety Jeremy Chinn

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2878148-nfl-scouting-combine-notebook-meet-this-years-small-school-draft-crush#slide0

NFL Scouting Combine Notebook: Meet This Year's Small-School 'Draft Crush' (Kyle Dugger)

but the real top story, since I didn't have Chinn on my list... is another offensive tackle I didn't have on my list -

who is already starting to get possible late first round attention...and who makes me think the Browns WILL trade down from ten a ways and look for Jones or:

Boise State Broncos offensive lineman Ezra Cleveland runs official 4.93 second 40-yard dash at 2020 NFL Scouting Combine.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/03/02/combine-draft-rumors-risers-free-agency-outlook-rbs-wrs

"Boise State OT Ezra Cleveland was one name that came up consistently as a player who helped himself in Indy. With the top four tackles—Georgia’s Andrew Thomas, Louisville’s Mekhi Becton, Iowa’s Tristan Wirfs and Alabama’s Jedrick Wills—all now in the Top-10 conversation, the second tier at the position likely gets pushed up a bit. And Cleveland might’ve pushed himself to the top of that tier with his showing."

https://www.bing.com/search?form=MOZTSB&pc=MOZI&q=ezra+cleveland

Now, put some age on his picture, and tell me he doesn't look a bit like Joe Thomas. lol

BB10DZBI.img?h=491&w=874&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f&x=1255&y=413

but he has flaws - strength, punch, etc etc...but as a later round pick - could become a solid RT in time ? Drafting him high based on combine numbers - something the Browns USED to do.

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51 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

Jeremy Chinn vs Kyle Dugger - really going to be an interesting read.

https://www.si.com/nfl/lions/news/draft-profile-south-illinois-safety-jeremy-chinn

Draft Profile: South Illinois Safety Jeremy Chinn

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2878148-nfl-scouting-combine-notebook-meet-this-years-small-school-draft-crush#slide0

NFL Scouting Combine Notebook: Meet This Year's Small-School 'Draft Crush' (Kyle Dugger)

but the real top story, since I didn't have Chinn on my list... is another offensive tackle I didn't have on my list -

who is already starting to get possible late first round attention...and who makes me think the Browns WILL trade down from ten a ways and look for Jones or:

Boise State Broncos offensive lineman Ezra Cleveland runs official 4.93 second 40-yard dash at 2020 NFL Scouting Combine.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/03/02/combine-draft-rumors-risers-free-agency-outlook-rbs-wrs

"Boise State OT Ezra Cleveland was one name that came up consistently as a player who helped himself in Indy. With the top four tackles—Georgia’s Andrew Thomas, Louisville’s Mekhi Becton, Iowa’s Tristan Wirfs and Alabama’s Jedrick Wills—all now in the Top-10 conversation, the second tier at the position likely gets pushed up a bit. And Cleveland might’ve pushed himself to the top of that tier with his showing."

https://www.bing.com/search?form=MOZTSB&pc=MOZI&q=ezra+cleveland

Now, put some age on his picture, and tell me he doesn't look a bit like Joe Thomas. lol

BB10DZBI.img?h=491&w=874&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f&x=1255&y=413

but he has flaws - strength, punch, etc etc...but as a later round pick - could become a solid RT in time ? Drafting him high based on combine numbers - something the Browns USED to do.

 

It's going to hurt your heart when I post in your thread but spoiler alert - Chinn is my guy over Dugger IMHO.    More on that to come.

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8 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

Now, put some age on his picture, and tell me he doesn't look a bit like Joe Thomas. lol

Well as they say... all Caucasians look alike.

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On 3/3/2020 at 1:01 PM, tiamat63 said:

 

It's going to hurt your heart when I post in your thread but spoiler alert - Chinn is my guy over Dugger IMHO.    More on that to come.

lol. Nope - I knew warranted criticism would be coming - obviously, my understanding of on the field football stuff is lacking a good bit - but I do the best I can about heart, character and love for the game, and a layman's opinion on combine numbers, and what I have gleaned over the years watching football since I was a kid....

I have always been a love for the game/character guy... and the combine numbers...while important...doesn't mean diddley when talking about ...eh....gilbert...manziel....robinson....calloway....c coleman....j gordon... blech.

I believe every single team has it happen, but the former Browns staffs have steadfastly made terrible decisions all too often.

The "experts" , which I certainly am not, don't get the picks right, either, ..so no angst when my mock draft is criticized. I'm good.

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Apparently stupid is not limited to FA articles today.

Here's a CBS mock that not only has us trading up, but trading up for Mehki Belton because... "Given Becton's insane athleticism at his size at the left tackle spot, he's a perfect fit in Kevin Stefanski's zone-blocking run scheme..."

Then they add to the stupid by claiming it's only cost us a 4th rounder to move up from 10 to 8...

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2020-nfl-mock-draft-packers-take-combine-star-patriots-land-small-school-sleeper-browns-trade-up/

 

I ain't gonna make it thru this offseason...

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4 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Apparently stupid is not limited to FA articles today.

Here's a CBS mock that not only has us trading up, but trading up for Mehki Belton because... "Given Becton's insane athleticism at his size at the left tackle spot, he's a perfect fit in Kevin Stefanski's zone-blocking run scheme..."

Then they add to the stupid by claiming it's only cost us a 4th rounder to move up from 10 to 8...

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2020-nfl-mock-draft-packers-take-combine-star-patriots-land-small-school-sleeper-browns-trade-up/

 

I ain't gonna make it thru this offseason...

I was about to propose something similar. I didnt like Becton because i was going off memory of how horrible the Louisville offensive line used to be. I went and compared his tape to the top guys and he is on a different level. I dont think any of the other guys are worthy of top 10 pick but Becton could be a generational talent. In reality he doesnt make it out of the top 5

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1 hour ago, Louisville Slugger said:

I was about to propose something similar. I didnt like Becton because i was going off memory of how horrible the Louisville offensive line used to be. I went and compared his tape to the top guys and he is on a different level. I dont think any of the other guys are worthy of top 10 pick but Becton could be a generational talent. In reality he doesnt make it out of the top 5

I don't think what Tour was "proposing" would be praise of Becton. 

And having just wrapped up watching him vs Clemson this past season, I'm inclined to agree being very underwhelmed at times by what I saw.

Dear God, the amount of waist bending....

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I think Louisville Slugger sees something I don't.

What game(s) did you look at LS? If different than those I looked at, then I'm willing to take another look.

 

Meanwhile report is out that LAC is trading Okung to CAR for OG Trai Turner so would appear that LAC has an OT in mind at #6 overall.

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