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Deep Thoughts from Elk Fag

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9 hours ago, hoorta said:

I've said it in many places. If a 40 time was a predictor of NFL success, Reynaldo  would be in the HOF.  :)

There's a  term for these sort of  players  Gipper.  Combine  "workout warriors". Great  measurables,  but suck  as football  players. Our own Justin Gilbert & Barky Mingo, the Jets Vernon Gholston,  and one of the all time  busts, Jamarcus Russell qualify. 

That's right! We should use 100 times which predicted Bob Hayes' HOF career! ;)

At least 3 of your examples weren't simply Combine wonders... and one did not go to the Combine.

  • Gilbert picked 12 passes at OU including 7 his Sr. year.
  • Gholston started 2 years at tOSU and posted 22.5 sacks including 14 his Sr. year... plus he added 15 TFLs or more each season.

So in these cases their Combine measureables confirmed their college performances.

Russell was frickin' beast at LSU who in his last season there: completed 68% of his passes, over 3000 yd, 28 TD and only 8 INT. He did not attend the Combine.

Mingo? Yeah... over-hyped tweener at LSU who never posted great numbers as an undersized DE.

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"analytics" doesn't say anything by itself.

"analytics" doesn't make a decision.

"analytics" is a tool - literally no different than the 3-cone time.

If you like tomato soup, crackers, and salad when looking at a menu, that's analytics.. you have decided those 3 items are the best way to make one thing called "Lunch."  I like brisket, brussels sprouts, and scotch - also for lunch.

Who's definitively correct? That depends - if you're a man you like scotch, but we'll leave that for the politics forum.

 

Analytics is the lunch menu.  Analytics CANNOT make any decisions for you --- because by definition the team has to decide what they believe is important before any numbers matter.

Classic example of teams ignoring player strengths/weaknesses: Vernon Gholston.  Jets drafted a 260-pound 4-3 DE, asked him to play OLB and cover RB's in the flat, and were shocked he couldn't?  That's not a failure of analytics, that's not properly using the data that they had, including each of their scouts telling them he wasn't a top10 pick...  Blaming that pick on "analytics" is entirely passing the buck!  Of course, the Jets had done this before.. in 1984 they drafted Ron Faurot in the first round as a DE, attempted to convert him to LB, and released him in the middle of his second season.

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8 hours ago, nickers said:

These cock suckers deserve nothing!... They must EARN IT!!

Um, that's what I've been saying nickers, but they do deserve the benefit of the doubt until proven that they don't deserve it. 

Not like, well- this is gonna suck again right out of the gate. 

PS I see Z has been at work with the thread title. All the Mods get notified when we have to put on our Mod hats for misbehavior. FWIW, Telling a Moderator f-you is a good way to get a time out, especially if you're on the low side of 100 posts. 

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3 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

 

That's right! We should use 100 times which predicted Bob Hayes' HOF career! ;)

At least 3 of your examples weren't simply Combine wonders... and one did not go to the Combine.

  • Gilbert picked 12 passes at OU including 7 his Sr. year.
  • Gholston started 2 years at tOSU and posted 22.5 sacks including 14 his Sr. year... plus he added 15 TFLs or more each season.

So in these cases their Combine measureables confirmed their college performances.

Russell was frickin' beast at LSU who in his last season there: completed 68% of his passes, over 3000 yd, 28 TD and only 8 INT. He did not attend the Combine.

Mingo? Yeah... over-hyped tweener at LSU who never posted great numbers as an undersized DE.

Yup Tour, Bob Hayes was one of the few track  stars  to make the  jump to the  NFL. 

I probably  misstated  what I  wanted to  say. A high sparq  score  doesn't  guarantee  success in the  pros. Then you have  the skinny kid from Michigan  who turned into the  GOAT of quarterbacks.  

I'm  encouraged it seems like DePo is going to seriously take into account  what the scouts are saying about the  players they looked at. Won't  all be  about  numbers.  Have to admit this year I've spent around  no time doing  my scouting,  except for  Joe Burrow and the usual  Ohio State suspects. 

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1 hour ago, hoorta said:

Yup Tour, Bob Hayes was one of the few track  stars  to make the  jump to the  NFL. 

I probably  misstated  what I  wanted to  say. A high sparq  score  doesn't  guarantee  success in the  pros. Then you have  the skinny kid from Michigan  who turned into the  GOAT of quarterbacks.  

I'm  encouraged it seems like DePo is going to seriously take into account  what the scouts are saying about the  players they looked at. Won't  all be  about  numbers.  Have to admit this year I've spent around  no time doing  my scouting,  except for  Joe Burrow and the usual  Ohio State suspects. 

Hoorta, I think it is more that the decision makers will take in to account what Depo says as well as what the scouts say.  The Dorse ignored Depo.  Depo doesn't make the decisions.  He simply provides information that might help the people that do.

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8 hours ago, ballpeen said:

Hoorta, I think it is more that the decision makers will take in to account what Depo says as well as what the scouts say.  The Dorse ignored Depo.  Depo doesn't make the decisions.  He simply provides information that might help the people that do.

Depoop is an egomaniac who loves playing Madden Moneyball with our team..... This whole coaching/GM search was one big sham.... I have 0 confidence in our owner and FO as it stands.... Stefanski was one of the very last of the candidates I had interest in if any.. He has no audible system for his QB.. So that automatically threw a red flag up for me.... He doesn't come off as the Alpha , Jimmy swore he was gonna hire.. He looks more like a disgruntled gym teacher... Andrew Berry blows and was part of the FO that brought us 0-16.. I have 0 confidence in him.. Dorsey was Prime Rib.. Berry is more on the order of a gristly Spencer cut... I'd rather have the Prime Rib...

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50 minutes ago, nickers said:

He has no audible system for his QB.

Really? On a pro level that is just unbelievable! And that is the area Baker needs the most help IMO.😮

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1 hour ago, nickers said:

Depoop is an egomaniac who loves playing Madden Moneyball with our team..... This whole coaching/GM search was one big sham.... I have 0 confidence in our owner and FO as it stands.... Stefanski was one of the very last of the candidates I had interest in if any.. He has no audible system for his QB.. So that automatically threw a red flag up for me.... He doesn't come off as the Alpha , Jimmy swore he was gonna hire.. He looks more like a disgruntled gym teacher... Andrew Berry blows and was part of the FO that brought us 0-16.. I have 0 confidence in him.. Dorsey was Prime Rib.. Berry is more on the order of a gristly Spencer cut... I'd rather have the Prime Rib...

Couple of  things nickers. 

1) Did you bother to listen to  any of Depodesta's press conferences? He certainly  doesn't  come off as  an egomaniac,  far from it. 

2) Stefansky  no audible  system? Where did you hear that? BTW, the last Browns coach  to win a Championship- Blanton  Collier certainly  didn't  impress  me as an Alpha Male. Add plenty of  Super Bowl winning  coaches to  that list.

3) If Andrew  Berry blows, then Jimmy  Haslam would have to be a certified cretin to bring  him back if he thought Andy was a major  factor in 0-16. Haslam  has to have at least two communicating neurons. 

4) Nah, Dorsey served Browns  fans up a hot mess  of not ready for  Prime Time  Freddie  Kitchens,  over drafted Austin Corbett, and shouldn't have been  drafted  Antonio  Callaway.  Because he had all the  answers, and wouldn't  listen to anyone else.  Just maybe the Browns  can go to the  Super Bowl like the  Chiefs  did after they told The Dorse adios.  :)

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2 hours ago, hoorta said:

Couple of  things nickers. 

1) Did you bother to listen to  any of Depodesta's press conferences? He certainly  doesn't  come off as  an egomaniac,  far from it. 

2) Stefansky  no audible  system? Where did you hear that?

3) If Andrew  Berry blows, then Jimmy  Haslam would have to be a certified cretin to bring  him back if he thought Andy was a major  factor in 0-16. Haslam  has to have at least two communicating neurons. 

4) Nah, Dorsey served Browns  fans up a hot mess  of not ready for  Prime Time  Freddie  Kitchens,  over drafted Austin Corbett, and shouldn't have been  drafted  Antonio  Callaway.  Because he had all the  answers, and wouldn't  listen to anyone else.  Just maybe the Browns  can go to the  Super Bowl like the  Chiefs  did after they told The Dorse adios.  :)

Yes..  Anyone can talk up a good game.... He's a good actor..

As far as Stefanski goes.. I had read that audibles were not part of his system much like Norv Turner.. Who again.. Runs no audible system for his QB's.. Which is why I put an asterisk next to Trow Aikman

jimmy is a cretin.. No doubt about it..

Dorsey gave us more talent in 2 years than any of these dipshits before or even after him will.. Sorry.. I can't drink the Lake Ere Swill going around on this team.. They blow.. I see another sub par season on the horizon.

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9 hours ago, hoorta said:

I'm  encouraged it seems like DePo is going to seriously take into account  what the scouts are saying about the  players they looked at. Won't  all be  about  numbers. 

It never has been "all about the numbers", h. In the age of consensus, at their high point Analytics were equally weighted.

As for Depo... It's not his job to take scouts' player evaluations into account; that's Berry's job.

 

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1 hour ago, nickers said:

Yes..  Anyone can talk up a good game.... He's a good actor..

As far as Stefanski goes.. I had read that audibles were not part of his system much like Norv Turner.. Who again.. Runs no audible system for his QB's.. Which is why I put an asterisk next to Trow Aikman

jimmy is a cretin.. No doubt about it..

Dorsey gave us more talent in 2 years than any of these dipshits before or even after him will.. Sorry.. I can't drink the Lake Ere Swill going around on this team.. They blow.. I see another sub par season on the horizon.

FWIW, I Googled  ONE reference where Stefansky  tried running the  ball  against the  49ers. That doesn't  equal  no audible  system.  

OK, Depodesta is a  phony, and Haslam is  dumber than a box of rocks. Whatever. 

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1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

It never has been "all about the numbers", h. In the age of consensus, at their high point Analytics were equally weighted.

As for Depo... It's not his job to take scouts' player evaluations into account; that's Berry's job.

 

That setup sounds fine Tour. Berry  takes the  scouts, analytics,  and coaches opinions  into account,  then is everybody  HAPPY? :D

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21 hours ago, hoorta said:

That setup sounds fine Tour. Berry  takes the  scouts, analytics,  and coaches opinions  into account,  then is everybody  HAPPY? :D

Still not sure how it all comes together. While Berry is a "football guy" we've no idea how strong of a one he is.

Could be behind the scenes he was championing different decisions for years or...

... it's as simple as "best of three", i.e., so long as two of the three Departments agree on a prospect/FA, then we go after him.

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On 1/31/2020 at 10:14 AM, nickers said:

Depoop is an egomaniac who loves playing Madden Moneyball with our team..... This whole coaching/GM search was one big sham.... I have 0 confidence in our owner and FO as it stands.... Stefanski was one of the very last of the candidates I had interest in if any.. He has no audible system for his QB.. So that automatically threw a red flag up for me.... He doesn't come off as the Alpha , Jimmy swore he was gonna hire.. He looks more like a disgruntled gym teacher... Andrew Berry blows and was part of the FO that brought us 0-16.. I have 0 confidence in him.. Dorsey was Prime Rib.. Berry is more on the order of a gristly Spencer cut... I'd rather have the Prime Rib...

You and others keep saying moneyball.  That is far from the truth.  In baseball teams like the Yankees have unlimited funds.  Teams like the A's and Indians don't so they have to make every dollar count, so yes, moneyball applies.  In football, teams have a cap on how much they can spend and a minimum that teams have to spend.  I think it is 92% of the cap as averaged over 3-4 seasons.

 

So, explain to me how "moneyball" applies??

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18 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Still not sure how it all comes together. While Berry is a "football guy" we've no idea how strong of a one he is.

Could be behind the scenes he was championing different decisions for years or...

... it's as simple as "best of three", i.e., so long as two of the three Departments agree on a prospect/FA, then we go after him.

You never know how it is going to work until you see it unfold.  Hey, last year we thought it was going to work until the Dorse hired Freddie, then we found out it didn't.

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54 minutes ago, ballpeen said:

So, explain to me how "moneyball" applies??

Just invest in a good camera and trash cans.🤗🤣

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3 hours ago, ballpeen said:

You and others keep saying moneyball.  That is far from the truth.  In baseball teams like the Yankees have unlimited funds.  Teams like the A's and Indians don't so they have to make every dollar count, so yes, moneyball applies.  In football, teams have a cap on how much they can spend and a minimum that teams have to spend.  I think it is 92% of the cap as averaged over 3-4 seasons.

 

So, explain to me how "moneyball" applies??

All I can tell you is whatever these circle jerks are doing.. I don't like it.. They can go to hell!

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1 hour ago, ballpeen said:

You and others keep saying moneyball.  That is far from the truth.  In baseball teams like the Yankees have unlimited funds.  Teams like the A's and Indians don't so they have to make every dollar count, so yes, moneyball applies.  In football, teams have a cap on how much they can spend and a minimum that teams have to spend.  I think it is 92% of the cap as averaged over 3-4 seasons.

 

So, explain to me how "moneyball" applies??

Wrong.

The Cubs, Red Sox and Astros applied the same principles to World Series titles. All teams who borrowed from Moneyball, who bought in 100% into analytics.

Those three teams strike you as the "sisters of the poor" of MLB?

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7 hours ago, nickers said:

All I can tell you is whatever these circle jerks are doing.. I don't like it.. They can go to hell!

Great, you don't  like it\ them. Hate to tell you but you don't  have much choice,  unless you  have  a few billion  lying  around  to buy Haslam  out. And I'm  pretty sure that the Browns  currently  aren't  for  sale.  :)

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6 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Wrong.

The Cubs, Red Sox and Astros applied the same principles to World Series titles. All teams who borrowed from Moneyball, who bought in 100% into analytics.

Those three teams strike you as the "sisters of the poor" of MLB?

Yes and no...yes in the sense teams use analytics.  My comment was aimed more towards people who think we are going to do it on the cheap.  My point is we have to spend the money somewhere.

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9 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

The Cubs, Red Sox and Astros applied the same principles to World Series titles. All teams who borrowed from Moneyball, who bought in 100% into analytics.

There's a difference in the dog-eat-dog MLB between "borrowing from" because the OAKs of the world were out-competing your wallet and having to fully commit because it's the only way a "small market team" can compete.  That said... who wouldn't want to have the Red Sox bankroll to spnnd on pitching while getting smarter about who they pay to be position players.

There is no parallel in the 'revenue sharing", socialistic world of the NFL. In football it's purely a matter of competitive advantage and the team that blends the best of traditional scouting and modern analytics has been the team that has been most competitive.

The name of that team is the New England Patriots. On top of everything else they set the analytics standard for the NFL.

 

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Oh and the Astors... well they added an electronic layer to the equation. 😮

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