Tour2ma Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 9 hours ago, hoorta said: I've said it in many places. If a 40 time was a predictor of NFL success, Reynaldo would be in the HOF. There's a term for these sort of players Gipper. Combine "workout warriors". Great measurables, but suck as football players. Our own Justin Gilbert & Barky Mingo, the Jets Vernon Gholston, and one of the all time busts, Jamarcus Russell qualify. That's right! We should use 100 times which predicted Bob Hayes' HOF career! At least 3 of your examples weren't simply Combine wonders... and one did not go to the Combine. Gilbert picked 12 passes at OU including 7 his Sr. year. Gholston started 2 years at tOSU and posted 22.5 sacks including 14 his Sr. year... plus he added 15 TFLs or more each season. So in these cases their Combine measureables confirmed their college performances. Russell was frickin' beast at LSU who in his last season there: completed 68% of his passes, over 3000 yd, 28 TD and only 8 INT. He did not attend the Combine. Mingo? Yeah... over-hyped tweener at LSU who never posted great numbers as an undersized DE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsympathetic Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 "analytics" doesn't say anything by itself. "analytics" doesn't make a decision. "analytics" is a tool - literally no different than the 3-cone time. If you like tomato soup, crackers, and salad when looking at a menu, that's analytics.. you have decided those 3 items are the best way to make one thing called "Lunch." I like brisket, brussels sprouts, and scotch - also for lunch. Who's definitively correct? That depends - if you're a man you like scotch, but we'll leave that for the politics forum. Analytics is the lunch menu. Analytics CANNOT make any decisions for you --- because by definition the team has to decide what they believe is important before any numbers matter. Classic example of teams ignoring player strengths/weaknesses: Vernon Gholston. Jets drafted a 260-pound 4-3 DE, asked him to play OLB and cover RB's in the flat, and were shocked he couldn't? That's not a failure of analytics, that's not properly using the data that they had, including each of their scouts telling them he wasn't a top10 pick... Blaming that pick on "analytics" is entirely passing the buck! Of course, the Jets had done this before.. in 1984 they drafted Ron Faurot in the first round as a DE, attempted to convert him to LB, and released him in the middle of his second season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 8 hours ago, nickers said: These cock suckers deserve nothing!... They must EARN IT!! Um, that's what I've been saying nickers, but they do deserve the benefit of the doubt until proven that they don't deserve it. Not like, well- this is gonna suck again right out of the gate. PS I see Z has been at work with the thread title. All the Mods get notified when we have to put on our Mod hats for misbehavior. FWIW, Telling a Moderator f-you is a good way to get a time out, especially if you're on the low side of 100 posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 3 hours ago, Tour2ma said: That's right! We should use 100 times which predicted Bob Hayes' HOF career! At least 3 of your examples weren't simply Combine wonders... and one did not go to the Combine. Gilbert picked 12 passes at OU including 7 his Sr. year. Gholston started 2 years at tOSU and posted 22.5 sacks including 14 his Sr. year... plus he added 15 TFLs or more each season. So in these cases their Combine measureables confirmed their college performances. Russell was frickin' beast at LSU who in his last season there: completed 68% of his passes, over 3000 yd, 28 TD and only 8 INT. He did not attend the Combine. Mingo? Yeah... over-hyped tweener at LSU who never posted great numbers as an undersized DE. Yup Tour, Bob Hayes was one of the few track stars to make the jump to the NFL. I probably misstated what I wanted to say. A high sparq score doesn't guarantee success in the pros. Then you have the skinny kid from Michigan who turned into the GOAT of quarterbacks. I'm encouraged it seems like DePo is going to seriously take into account what the scouts are saying about the players they looked at. Won't all be about numbers. Have to admit this year I've spent around no time doing my scouting, except for Joe Burrow and the usual Ohio State suspects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 hour ago, hoorta said: Yup Tour, Bob Hayes was one of the few track stars to make the jump to the NFL. I probably misstated what I wanted to say. A high sparq score doesn't guarantee success in the pros. Then you have the skinny kid from Michigan who turned into the GOAT of quarterbacks. I'm encouraged it seems like DePo is going to seriously take into account what the scouts are saying about the players they looked at. Won't all be about numbers. Have to admit this year I've spent around no time doing my scouting, except for Joe Burrow and the usual Ohio State suspects. Hoorta, I think it is more that the decision makers will take in to account what Depo says as well as what the scouts say. The Dorse ignored Depo. Depo doesn't make the decisions. He simply provides information that might help the people that do. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 8 hours ago, ballpeen said: Hoorta, I think it is more that the decision makers will take in to account what Depo says as well as what the scouts say. The Dorse ignored Depo. Depo doesn't make the decisions. He simply provides information that might help the people that do. Depoop is an egomaniac who loves playing Madden Moneyball with our team..... This whole coaching/GM search was one big sham.... I have 0 confidence in our owner and FO as it stands.... Stefanski was one of the very last of the candidates I had interest in if any.. He has no audible system for his QB.. So that automatically threw a red flag up for me.... He doesn't come off as the Alpha , Jimmy swore he was gonna hire.. He looks more like a disgruntled gym teacher... Andrew Berry blows and was part of the FO that brought us 0-16.. I have 0 confidence in him.. Dorsey was Prime Rib.. Berry is more on the order of a gristly Spencer cut... I'd rather have the Prime Rib... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 50 minutes ago, nickers said: He has no audible system for his QB. Really? On a pro level that is just unbelievable! And that is the area Baker needs the most help IMO.😮 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 hour ago, nickers said: Depoop is an egomaniac who loves playing Madden Moneyball with our team..... This whole coaching/GM search was one big sham.... I have 0 confidence in our owner and FO as it stands.... Stefanski was one of the very last of the candidates I had interest in if any.. He has no audible system for his QB.. So that automatically threw a red flag up for me.... He doesn't come off as the Alpha , Jimmy swore he was gonna hire.. He looks more like a disgruntled gym teacher... Andrew Berry blows and was part of the FO that brought us 0-16.. I have 0 confidence in him.. Dorsey was Prime Rib.. Berry is more on the order of a gristly Spencer cut... I'd rather have the Prime Rib... Couple of things nickers. 1) Did you bother to listen to any of Depodesta's press conferences? He certainly doesn't come off as an egomaniac, far from it. 2) Stefansky no audible system? Where did you hear that? BTW, the last Browns coach to win a Championship- Blanton Collier certainly didn't impress me as an Alpha Male. Add plenty of Super Bowl winning coaches to that list. 3) If Andrew Berry blows, then Jimmy Haslam would have to be a certified cretin to bring him back if he thought Andy was a major factor in 0-16. Haslam has to have at least two communicating neurons. 4) Nah, Dorsey served Browns fans up a hot mess of not ready for Prime Time Freddie Kitchens, over drafted Austin Corbett, and shouldn't have been drafted Antonio Callaway. Because he had all the answers, and wouldn't listen to anyone else. Just maybe the Browns can go to the Super Bowl like the Chiefs did after they told The Dorse adios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 2 hours ago, hoorta said: Couple of things nickers. 1) Did you bother to listen to any of Depodesta's press conferences? He certainly doesn't come off as an egomaniac, far from it. 2) Stefansky no audible system? Where did you hear that? 3) If Andrew Berry blows, then Jimmy Haslam would have to be a certified cretin to bring him back if he thought Andy was a major factor in 0-16. Haslam has to have at least two communicating neurons. 4) Nah, Dorsey served Browns fans up a hot mess of not ready for Prime Time Freddie Kitchens, over drafted Austin Corbett, and shouldn't have been drafted Antonio Callaway. Because he had all the answers, and wouldn't listen to anyone else. Just maybe the Browns can go to the Super Bowl like the Chiefs did after they told The Dorse adios. Yes.. Anyone can talk up a good game.... He's a good actor.. As far as Stefanski goes.. I had read that audibles were not part of his system much like Norv Turner.. Who again.. Runs no audible system for his QB's.. Which is why I put an asterisk next to Trow Aikman jimmy is a cretin.. No doubt about it.. Dorsey gave us more talent in 2 years than any of these dipshits before or even after him will.. Sorry.. I can't drink the Lake Ere Swill going around on this team.. They blow.. I see another sub par season on the horizon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 9 hours ago, hoorta said: I'm encouraged it seems like DePo is going to seriously take into account what the scouts are saying about the players they looked at. Won't all be about numbers. It never has been "all about the numbers", h. In the age of consensus, at their high point Analytics were equally weighted. As for Depo... It's not his job to take scouts' player evaluations into account; that's Berry's job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 hour ago, nickers said: Yes.. Anyone can talk up a good game.... He's a good actor.. As far as Stefanski goes.. I had read that audibles were not part of his system much like Norv Turner.. Who again.. Runs no audible system for his QB's.. Which is why I put an asterisk next to Trow Aikman jimmy is a cretin.. No doubt about it.. Dorsey gave us more talent in 2 years than any of these dipshits before or even after him will.. Sorry.. I can't drink the Lake Ere Swill going around on this team.. They blow.. I see another sub par season on the horizon. FWIW, I Googled ONE reference where Stefansky tried running the ball against the 49ers. That doesn't equal no audible system. OK, Depodesta is a phony, and Haslam is dumber than a box of rocks. Whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Tour2ma said: It never has been "all about the numbers", h. In the age of consensus, at their high point Analytics were equally weighted. As for Depo... It's not his job to take scouts' player evaluations into account; that's Berry's job. That setup sounds fine Tour. Berry takes the scouts, analytics, and coaches opinions into account, then is everybody HAPPY? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted February 1, 2020 Report Share Posted February 1, 2020 21 hours ago, hoorta said: That setup sounds fine Tour. Berry takes the scouts, analytics, and coaches opinions into account, then is everybody HAPPY? Still not sure how it all comes together. While Berry is a "football guy" we've no idea how strong of a one he is. Could be behind the scenes he was championing different decisions for years or... ... it's as simple as "best of three", i.e., so long as two of the three Departments agree on a prospect/FA, then we go after him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 On 1/31/2020 at 10:14 AM, nickers said: Depoop is an egomaniac who loves playing Madden Moneyball with our team..... This whole coaching/GM search was one big sham.... I have 0 confidence in our owner and FO as it stands.... Stefanski was one of the very last of the candidates I had interest in if any.. He has no audible system for his QB.. So that automatically threw a red flag up for me.... He doesn't come off as the Alpha , Jimmy swore he was gonna hire.. He looks more like a disgruntled gym teacher... Andrew Berry blows and was part of the FO that brought us 0-16.. I have 0 confidence in him.. Dorsey was Prime Rib.. Berry is more on the order of a gristly Spencer cut... I'd rather have the Prime Rib... You and others keep saying moneyball. That is far from the truth. In baseball teams like the Yankees have unlimited funds. Teams like the A's and Indians don't so they have to make every dollar count, so yes, moneyball applies. In football, teams have a cap on how much they can spend and a minimum that teams have to spend. I think it is 92% of the cap as averaged over 3-4 seasons. So, explain to me how "moneyball" applies?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 18 hours ago, Tour2ma said: Still not sure how it all comes together. While Berry is a "football guy" we've no idea how strong of a one he is. Could be behind the scenes he was championing different decisions for years or... ... it's as simple as "best of three", i.e., so long as two of the three Departments agree on a prospect/FA, then we go after him. You never know how it is going to work until you see it unfold. Hey, last year we thought it was going to work until the Dorse hired Freddie, then we found out it didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 54 minutes ago, ballpeen said: So, explain to me how "moneyball" applies?? Just invest in a good camera and trash cans.🤗🤣 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 3 hours ago, ballpeen said: You and others keep saying moneyball. That is far from the truth. In baseball teams like the Yankees have unlimited funds. Teams like the A's and Indians don't so they have to make every dollar count, so yes, moneyball applies. In football, teams have a cap on how much they can spend and a minimum that teams have to spend. I think it is 92% of the cap as averaged over 3-4 seasons. So, explain to me how "moneyball" applies?? All I can tell you is whatever these circle jerks are doing.. I don't like it.. They can go to hell! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 1 hour ago, ballpeen said: You and others keep saying moneyball. That is far from the truth. In baseball teams like the Yankees have unlimited funds. Teams like the A's and Indians don't so they have to make every dollar count, so yes, moneyball applies. In football, teams have a cap on how much they can spend and a minimum that teams have to spend. I think it is 92% of the cap as averaged over 3-4 seasons. So, explain to me how "moneyball" applies?? Wrong. The Cubs, Red Sox and Astros applied the same principles to World Series titles. All teams who borrowed from Moneyball, who bought in 100% into analytics. Those three teams strike you as the "sisters of the poor" of MLB? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 7 hours ago, nickers said: All I can tell you is whatever these circle jerks are doing.. I don't like it.. They can go to hell! Great, you don't like it\ them. Hate to tell you but you don't have much choice, unless you have a few billion lying around to buy Haslam out. And I'm pretty sure that the Browns currently aren't for sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 6 hours ago, Dutch Oven said: Wrong. The Cubs, Red Sox and Astros applied the same principles to World Series titles. All teams who borrowed from Moneyball, who bought in 100% into analytics. Those three teams strike you as the "sisters of the poor" of MLB? Yes and no...yes in the sense teams use analytics. My comment was aimed more towards people who think we are going to do it on the cheap. My point is we have to spend the money somewhere. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 9 hours ago, Dutch Oven said: The Cubs, Red Sox and Astros applied the same principles to World Series titles. All teams who borrowed from Moneyball, who bought in 100% into analytics. There's a difference in the dog-eat-dog MLB between "borrowing from" because the OAKs of the world were out-competing your wallet and having to fully commit because it's the only way a "small market team" can compete. That said... who wouldn't want to have the Red Sox bankroll to spnnd on pitching while getting smarter about who they pay to be position players. There is no parallel in the 'revenue sharing", socialistic world of the NFL. In football it's purely a matter of competitive advantage and the team that blends the best of traditional scouting and modern analytics has been the team that has been most competitive. The name of that team is the New England Patriots. On top of everything else they set the analytics standard for the NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 Oh and the Astors... well they added an electronic layer to the equation. 😮 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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