Kobe Bryant Killed in Helicopter Crash

[hoorta]

5 hours ago, Kvoethe said:

Ok..lets not pretend he was gods gift to athletes...another Ben Rothlesberger who outlived peoples memories...you probably love ray rice too.

Sad for everyone involved..but i wonder how the woman he assaulted feels?

I haven't forgotten that K, and FWIW- the victim got paid off- probably handsomely- to drop the charges. The payoff was sealed under court order in a civil suit.  I'll leave you with one of the few things I remember from my Latin class....    "De mortuisti, nihil nisi bonum"  Loosely translated- "Only say good things about someone who's dead"...   

What's next- I'm glad that rapist went down in flames?    

[hoorta]

The Weather Channel had- surprise! A nice detailed look at the weather. As one of the experts said- the odds of a twin engine helicopter having both engines simultaneously fail is about zero. BTW, the pilot was really experienced- Kobe had the bucks to hire the very best. The guy was IFR (instrument flight rules) qualified, and you have to pilot hundreds of hours in the air before you can take the test to get that level. They were supposed to eyeball Route 101 into Thousand Oaks. My theory they got lost in the fog, got off course, and crashed into a hill they didn't see is looking pretty good.  

https://weather.com/news/news/2020-01-26-nba-star-kobe-bryant-killed-in-calabasas-helicopter-crash

PS checking Google Maps- their trip from Point A to Point B was around 80 miles, at least a 90 minute drive, 30 minutes or less in the air. Why drive when you can fly?  I heard Kobe had issues spending a lot of time in a car because of injuries. 

[TexasAg1969]

9 hours ago, hoorta said:

 

https://weather.com/news/news/2020-01-26-nba-star-kobe-bryant-killed-in-calabasas-helicopter-crash

 

Larry I'll send this to my two brothers who were IFR qualified pilots (youngest just retired from Net Jets) and a third friend who retired from Southwest a couple of years ago. Should be interesting to get their takes. I'm guessing they all say if you are flying IFR you are not supposed to be "eyeballing" anything but your instruments, which is why they call it instrument flight rules. From WIKI:  "Rules and regulations established by the FAA to govern flight under conditions in which flight by outside visual reference is not safe."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrument_flight_rules

[Gorka]

11 hours ago, Kvoethe said:

Ok..lets not pretend he was gods gift to athletes...

What the hell are you responding to?  Nowhere in Cysco's post did he say or even imply that.

[TexasAg1969]

Here is what my just retired professional pilot brother had to say about the accident. He was a Gulfstream IV pilot (Captain) after several years as a B-52 pilot.

"Helicopters have slightly different rules. At my company we were required to stay under instruments to the maximum extent possible, even in good weather. It always useful to have an electronic pathway setup under visual conditions, even if just for proper orientation. It helps to avoid landing at the wrong airport or on the wrong runway. And to understand the radio chatter properly, or be able to quickly revert to instruments if asked. We used visual approaches sparingly and certainly not in those conditions. 

     However, helicopters have some unique approaches & departures at many airports. Still, since 80% of accidents are pilot error, I’d lean towards that explanation in this case. Certainly he was trying some iffy stuff.  I never flew under “special visual flight rules” during my entire 42 years. I interpreted “special” as “less safe”. If I recall, my company didn’t let us use that option even when it was legal (nor would I have even if they asked me to). News reports say that’s what he was doing. But it’s too early for a determination."

[The Cysko Kid]

13 hours ago, hoorta said:

I haven't forgotten that K, and FWIW- the victim got paid off- probably handsomely- to drop the charges. The payoff was sealed under court order in a civil suit.  I'll leave you with one of the few things I remember from my Latin class....    "De mortuisti, nihil nisi bonum"  Loosely translated- "Only say good things about someone who's dead"...   

What's next- I'm glad that rapist went down in flames?    

What actually happened is she refused to testify in a criminal case and instead filed a civil suit where you can get paid, often just to go away. 

 

I don't know, I'm not a woman but if I was and I got raped id want to nail the guy to the wall over it. Not just take a payoff. 

[Browns149]

6 hours ago, The Cysko Kid said:

What actually happened is she refused to testify in a criminal case and instead filed a civil suit where you can get paid, often just to go away. 

 

I don't know, I'm not a woman but if I was and I got raped id want to nail the guy to the wall over it. Not just take a payoff. 

Can you go to court, get a conviction, and then file a civil suit?

[Browns149]

Is Kobe’s death going to be one of those “I remember where I was” moments?

 

[The Gipper]

2 hours ago, Browns149 said:

Can you go to court, get a conviction, and then file a civil suit?

Yes 

[The Gipper]

2 hours ago, Browns149 said:

Is Kobe’s death going to be one of those “I remember where I was” moments?

 

No 

[hoorta]

16 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

No 

Ditto that, but from TNN tribute stuff that's on YouTube, Jerry West and Shaq were pretty emotional. Kobe was literally like a son to Jerry. Sir Charles said he was at a movie (and he leaves his phone in the car) turns it on there's a couple hundred missed calls and texts. Something big is happening. 

[Browns149]

21 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

No 

I don’t think it is either. 
 

I have very few of those. Ironically, the space shuttle blowing up is one of them. And the anniversary was today

[TexasAg1969]

1 hour ago, Browns149 said:

I don’t think it is either. 
 

I have very few of those. Ironically, the space shuttle blowing up is one of them. And the anniversary was today

I remember where I was the first time I got laid. 🤗

[Icecube]

On 1/27/2020 at 11:35 PM, hoorta said:

I haven't forgotten that K, and FWIW- the victim got paid off- probably handsomely- to drop the charges. The payoff was sealed under court order in a civil suit.  I'll leave you with one of the few things I remember from my Latin class....    "De mortuisti, nihil nisi bonum"  Loosely translated- "Only say good things about someone who's dead"...   

What's next- I'm glad that rapist went down in flames?    

I hear you, Hoorta. Agree. 

[Neo]

 I have never seen something more evil on this planet than the media. Leave it to the media to make a spectacle out the death of Kobe Bryant and the others involved. All up in players faces asking them questions about somebody that they held dearly and just a few hours after they found out he was killed.

These media people are some evil motherfuckers.

[Gunz41]

As everyone can tell from my profile I am a Lakers fan, and Kobe was my guy. 

For one, now is NOT the time to be bringing up what may or may not have happened in Colorado. People are mourning, and not just because of Kobe, but also his 13 year old daughter and 7 others. And this board isn't the only place that this is being brought up. It is not right for him family and friends to have to hear about that at a time like this. 

As for the subject of Colorado, he wasn't convicted, and nobody here knows what really happened. You can make assumptions just like someone on the other side can, but using a settlement to prove something proves nothing. For all anyone knows the money was given to not have to put his family through any more, or himself. 

None of that is to say that he is innocent (because as I stated I don't know), but he certainly wouldn't be the 1st or last person wrongfully accused. And it certainly doesn't change the fact that if it were consensual that it was still wrong. But I am sure that nobody here would want their families business being discussed within 24 hrs of death. 

[bjh2130]

On 1/27/2020 at 7:27 PM, ATOM said:

The Altobelli's mom dad and their daughter who was on Gianna"s B Ball team I wonder if she had any siblings ? 

Yes she had two sisters that lost both parents and their sister. 

[bjh2130]

4 hours ago, Gunz41 said:

As for the subject of Colorado, he wasn't convicted, and nobody here knows what really happened. You can make assumptions just like someone on the other side can, but using a settlement to prove something proves nothing. For all anyone knows the money was given to not have to put his family through any more, or himself

I agree it's not the time to bring up Colorado but since you went into it further than just saying it's not the time I myself will dive a little deeper. I recall part of the settlement was he had to admit to doing it.  Kobe had "mamba mentality" and when it came to competition he was a killer.  He's not going to settle a civil case to not have to go through any more.  That is completely against who Kobe was as a person. 

“First, I want to apologize directly to the young woman involved in this incident. I want to apologize to her for my behavior that night and for the consequences she has suffered in the past year. Although this year has been incredibly difficult for me personally, I can only imagine the pain she has had to endure. I also want to apologize to her parents and family members, and to my family and friends and supporters, and to the citizens of Eagle, Colorado. I also want to make it clear that I do not question the motives of this young woman. No money has been paid to this woman. She has agreed that this statement will not be used against me in the civil case. Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did. After months of reviewing discovery, listening to her attorney, and even her testimony in person, I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter." 

Kobe literally says he understands why she feels she did not consent to sex. If the female didn't consent in her mind it's rape. Kobe saying he gets why she says she did not consent must mean there was merit to the reasoning.

[bjh2130]

On 1/28/2020 at 12:58 PM, The Cysko Kid said:

What actually happened is she refused to testify in a criminal case and instead filed a civil suit where you can get paid, often just to go away. 

 

I don't know, I'm not a woman but if I was and I got raped id want to nail the guy to the wall over it. Not just take a payoff. 

She refused to testify after her name was released (by the court) illegally 3 different times and after her rape kit was illegally released (by the court) to 7 different news outlets. She knew she was not getting a fair trial. 

[Gunz41]

13 hours ago, bjh2130 said:

I agree it's not the time to bring up Colorado but since you went into it further than just saying it's not the time I myself will dive a little deeper. I recall part of the settlement was he had to admit to doing it.  Kobe had "mamba mentality" and when it came to competition he was a killer.  He's not going to settle a civil case to not have to go through any more.  That is completely against who Kobe was as a person. 

“First, I want to apologize directly to the young woman involved in this incident. I want to apologize to her for my behavior that night and for the consequences she has suffered in the past year. Although this year has been incredibly difficult for me personally, I can only imagine the pain she has had to endure. I also want to apologize to her parents and family members, and to my family and friends and supporters, and to the citizens of Eagle, Colorado. I also want to make it clear that I do not question the motives of this young woman. No money has been paid to this woman. She has agreed that this statement will not be used against me in the civil case. Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did. After months of reviewing discovery, listening to her attorney, and even her testimony in person, I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter." 

Kobe literally says he understands why she feels she did not consent to sex. If the female didn't consent in her mind it's rape. Kobe saying he gets why she says she did not consent must mean there was merit to the reasoning.

Smh. "I truly believe this encounter was consensual..."

Kobe literally says...

Again, I am NOT saying it was or wasn't, I wasn't there. But nothing in there says he "admitted to anything illegal (I guess technically in some if not all states infidelity is, but you know what I mean.) I can understand another side of an argument, yet not agree with it. And there are certainly times in all kinds of circumstances that someone thinks something and it isn't that case. For example, I can have someone staying in my home who has done time for theft. If something comes up missing I could blame them. That person says they can understand why I would accuse them but they didn't do it.

And please stop with thinking that you know how someone would go about something because they went about it in some way in another endeavor. Nothing that has come out since he retired shows "Mamba Mentality". And at that point, when you have seriously messed up with your wife it is probably not just your decision on that. Maybe he didn't want to put his wife through even more. I will GUARANTEE that their are people throughout history who have settled on things just to be done with it. 

You aren't bringing up something new, you are bringing up things that happened 15+ years ago.

But by your logic here, all the other men at that massage parlor were guilty because of the deal they took, but Robert Kraft is innocent because he didn't. 

And you are stating opinions as facts. You have NO idea as fact why the young woman didn't cooperate, why it was settled, or any of the other parts. And although the show is fictional, it is based on real things. Ever watched Law and Order SVU and someone thinks they were assaulted but weren't? Or on the other side of it that someone really believes they did nothing wrong. At least I am willing to admit that I don't know what the truth is, how about you?

I'm done with this. Whether it happened or not, its not the time. There are a lot of people hurting because of this. I'll bet you there will be people hurting when OJ dies, when Aaron Hernandez died etc. And in those cases as well I don't think right after they died would be the time to discuss it. 

[bjh2130]

44 minutes ago, Gunz41 said:

Smh. "I truly believe this encounter was consensual..."

Kobe literally says...

Again, I am NOT saying it was or wasn't, I wasn't there. But nothing in there says he "admitted to anything illegal (I guess technically in some if not all states infidelity is, but you know what I mean.) I can understand another side of an argument, yet not agree with it. And there are certainly times in all kinds of circumstances that someone thinks something and it isn't that case. For example, I can have someone staying in my home who has done time for theft. If something comes up missing I could blame them. That person says they can understand why I would accuse them but they didn't do it.

And please stop with thinking that you know how someone would go about something because they went about it in some way in another endeavor. Nothing that has come out since he retired shows "Mamba Mentality". And at that point, when you have seriously messed up with your wife it is probably not just your decision on that. Maybe he didn't want to put his wife through even more. I will GUARANTEE that their are people throughout history who have settled on things just to be done with it. 

You aren't bringing up something new, you are bringing up things that happened 15+ years ago.

But by your logic here, all the other men at that massage parlor were guilty because of the deal they took, but Robert Kraft is innocent because he didn't. 

And you are stating opinions as facts. You have NO idea as fact why the young woman didn't cooperate, why it was settled, or any of the other parts. And although the show is fictional, it is based on real things. Ever watched Law and Order SVU and someone thinks they were assaulted but weren't? Or on the other side of it that someone really believes they did nothing wrong. At least I am willing to admit that I don't know what the truth is, how about you?

I'm done with this. Whether it happened or not, its not the time. There are a lot of people hurting because of this. I'll bet you there will be people hurting when OJ dies, when Aaron Hernandez died etc. And in those cases as well I don't think right after they died would be the time to discuss it. 

I didnt bring it up originally buddy. Someone else did and instead of you just saying this isn't the time for that discussion and leaving it at that you had to continue on and defend him because you are admittedly a "kobe guy". You participated the discussion and opened it up even more.  In neither a Kobe guy or Kobe hater. I respect him as an athlete and basketball player but I'm not going to blindly defend him or criticize him like a fanboy or hater.

 

The young woman literally said that is why she didn't testify. It's not my opinion you can find it many articles.  She felt as if there wasn't a reason because she wasn't getting fair treatment from the courts. Lastly if a man says I feel it was consensual but I can see why she would feel it wasn't that is admitting guilt to an extent (which is why it was stated she's not allowed to use this statement in civil case).  If one person legitimately feels it isn't consensual than it is rape no matter what the other person says.

[Gunz41]

2 hours ago, bjh2130 said:

I didnt bring it up originally buddy. Someone else did and instead of you just saying this isn't the time for that discussion and leaving it at that you had to continue on and defend him because you are admittedly a "kobe guy". You participated the discussion and opened it up even more.  In neither a Kobe guy or Kobe hater. I respect him as an athlete and basketball player but I'm not going to blindly defend him or criticize him like a fanboy or hater.

 

The young woman literally said that is why she didn't testify. It's not my opinion you can find it many articles.  She felt as if there wasn't a reason because she wasn't getting fair treatment from the courts. Lastly if a man says I feel it was consensual but I can see why she would feel it wasn't that is admitting guilt to an extent (which is why it was stated she's not allowed to use this statement in civil case).  If one person legitimately feels it isn't consensual than it is rape no matter what the other person says.

Actually no that isn't the case. I will use a different example. Look at what is going on right now, one side says did nothing wrong and other the exact opposite. 

And I am not saying anything to talk negatively about the woman, but are you honestly telling me that there is NO other reason why she couldn't have cooperated? And are you honestly saying that some athletes aren't targeted for a paycheck? And that after the fact things aren't looked at differently? Perfect example is Kristaps Porzingis. 

But since you seem to know my motive, please go back and find ONE WORD where I said that he didn't do it? 

And you seem to skip part of my post. You are the one who brought up the "mamba mentality" and saying he would never just go away. Like you KNOW what was in his head. Yet when I give just 1 reason why it might have went the way it did you don't respond?

Or let's just look at how all these people have had these tributes, and not just contemporaries. You mean to tell me that all of them just gloss over that? That seems very hard to believe. 

And yes I don't think this is the time to discuss these things, but if you see something you think is wrong I think you speak up. I doubt you would think it was ok if you got online and announced your wife and daughter had passed and someone said "yea BUT she cheated on him and beat him." To bring it up at that time is not honoring his memory, his daughter's memory, the other victims memory, or all the good they did and would have done in the future. And its not the time as in where was this talk in the last 17 years? Nothing when he retired, nothing when he won an Oscar, etc. 

You go ahead and believe what you will, that is all in your rights. But just remember that everything you are saying is an opinion and that others do see it a different way and that others can read that statement and come to a different conclusion. 

[The Gipper]

2 hours ago, Gunz41 said:

Actually no that isn't the case. I will use a different example. Look at what is going on right now, one side says did nothing wrong and other the exact opposite. 

And I am not saying anything to talk negatively about the woman, but are you honestly telling me that there is NO other reason why she couldn't have cooperated? And are you honestly saying that some athletes aren't targeted for a paycheck? And that after the fact things aren't looked at differently? Perfect example is Kristaps Porzingis. 

But since you seem to know my motive, please go back and find ONE WORD where I said that he didn't do it? 

And you seem to skip part of my post. You are the one who brought up the "mamba mentality" and saying he would never just go away. Like you KNOW what was in his head. Yet when I give just 1 reason why it might have went the way it did you don't respond?

Or let's just look at how all these people have had these tributes, and not just contemporaries. You mean to tell me that all of them just gloss over that? That seems very hard to believe. 

And yes I don't think this is the time to discuss these things, but if you see something you think is wrong I think you speak up. I doubt you would think it was ok if you got online and announced your wife and daughter had passed and someone said "yea BUT she cheated on him and beat him." To bring it up at that time is not honoring his memory, his daughter's memory, the other victims memory, or all the good they did and would have done in the future. And its not the time as in where was this talk in the last 17 years? Nothing when he retired, nothing when he won an Oscar, etc. 

You go ahead and believe what you will, that is all in your rights. But just remember that everything you are saying is an opinion and that others do see it a different way and that others can read that statement and come to a different conclusion. 

I don’t really care much about the whole thing. 

[TexasAg1969]

Company owning the helicopter is looking like a great target for a lawsuit. They were not certified to fly in that kind of weather.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-people-kobe-bryant-helicopter-idUSKBN1ZU0NL

[ATOM]

I was more upset about Neil Peart 's passing

[hoorta]

7 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Company owning the helicopter is looking like a great target for a lawsuit. They were not certified to fly in that kind of weather.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-people-kobe-bryant-helicopter-idUSKBN1ZU0NL

Well..... Ask your pilot relatives if this was possible. The 'copter may not have been certified, but was IFR equipped. The pilot had IFR certification, and plenty of air time- 8,000+ hours. that's almost a solid 24\7 year in the air. Though it does sort of sound like he wasn't using the instruments.....   

[TexasAg1969]

3 hours ago, hoorta said:

Well..... Ask your pilot relatives if this was possible. The 'copter may not have been certified, but was IFR equipped. The pilot had IFR certification, and plenty of air time- 8,000+ hours. that's almost a solid 24\7 year in the air. Though it does sort of sound like he wasn't using the instruments.....   

It wasn't that 'copter was not certified, it was that the company was not certified to have any employee operate it in those conditions, thus opening itself up for lawsuit.

[gumby73]

💔 Well Done LA..  "If you were a fan of Kobe Bryant? You were a fan of Winning".. RIP to 9 precious lives that only intentions were to get to a Game 🙏   

[hoorta]

3 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

It wasn't that 'copter was not certified, it was that the company was not certified to have any employee operate it in those conditions, thus opening itself up for lawsuit.

We iz going out of business.....  

1 hour ago, gumby73 said:

💔 Well Done LA..  "If you were a fan of Kobe Bryant? You were a fan of Winning".. RIP to 9 precious lives that only intentions were to get to a Game 🙏   

We'll never know what was said on the 'copter. Pilot well could have said- weather is too iffy- we have to either set down or turn around. But hell, it's what Kobe wants- I have years of experience, I can do it.