The 'Who you watching?' 2020 thread.

[Tour2ma]

5 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

1. his arm length is subpar for the position? 
2. His kick step needs work and there are some timestamps that have me wondering how he'll hold up against speed, but his feet look light and fast enough to at least have development potential.
3. I remember watching Brandon Schreff when he was a tackle for Iowa - now with the Redskins.   I didn't see the huge hype on him being a top 10 blindside protector.  Honestly, I'm pretty sure I remember saying I came away unimpressed and felt he would have* to move inside in order to have sustained success at the next level.   @Tour2ma may have said the same?  Back me up on this should you care to revisit your notes of if you run a search on here for that thread.

1. Seems to be about 50/50 now on if OG will be his best slot. Combine measurements should be interesting.
2. When is the last time you saw a decent college kick step? I honestly can't remember...
3. Yup... I was there, too.

On 2/12/2015 at 1:04 PM, Tour2ma said:

Brandon Scherff: Iowa (02-02-15) vs. IND/Maryland - No kick dropstep - shuffles; good feet; good hands, but high. Prone to getting bulled by power and faked by speed. Good accel, no drive. Do not run his way much. Head? Strength? Athletic, but fundamentally weak

 

[Tour2ma]

3 hours ago, mjp28 said:

Or USDA Prime...... Holy smokes a herd of 6' 7". 300+ guys, wouldn't want to feed that bunch.  I remember watching an interview with OL Joe Thomas on his routines to stay in top shape and diets with 8,000 (+/-) calories a day and a lot of weights.

This draft looks loaded in many areas plus these kids are NFL ready in size, shape and coaching.

I'm biased against OTs over 6'6"...

I've seen so many who are waist-bending, top-heavy mofos. I know it's an inch or two over my "ideal"... I know there have been a couple good 6'7" LTs... but I've wasted too much time culling thru the too-tall chaff.

Also disagree on coaching when it comes to the OL. The RPO is ruining the college game when it comes to developing a lot more than QBs.

[calfoxwc]

23 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

I'm biased against OTs over 6'6"...

I've seen so many who are waist-bending, top-heavy mofos. I know it's an inch or two over my "ideal"... I know there have been a couple good 6'7" LTs... but I've wasted too much time culling thru the too-tall chaff.

Also disagree on coaching when it comes to the OL. The RPO is ruining the college game when it comes to developing a lot more than QBs.

generally speaking, for good reason. But then there are those few who the trends don't apply to.

I think I would LOVE for the Browns to get this kid:

2020 NFL Draft: Alex Taylor is the top offensive tackle sleeper Every NFL draft class seems to possess some sort of spectacle. Whether it’s a former basketball star taking his talents from the hardwood to the gridiron. Or perhaps a huge, athletic freak who forces scouts to salivate at the thought of his potential.  I don't know what round he'll go in. I hope every other team thinks he's too tall, and the Browns find a chance to draft him later. I think if he lasted til the fourth round....

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/2020-nfl-draft-alex-taylor-top-offensive-tackle-sleeper/

   "

"Routinely he wins reps with emphasis. At times Taylor looks like Michael Oher in The Blindside as he topples over opponents and drives them way off the ball. For such a big lineman, naturally, there would lie concerns regarding leverage. However, that comes easy for Taylor. He’s a natural knee bender and does a tremendous job of getting underneath his opponent with tons of power on engagement.

Not to sound cliche, but Taylor is the epitome of a dancing bear. The size is obvious, but where Taylor really impresses is in his movement skills. He sinks well in his hips and moves around the arch with ease. Taylor has shown progression in his pass sets with quickness and depth in his kick slide. His length is one of his best attributes which Taylor uses to his advantage time and time again.

The flashes he’s shown as a pass protector are mightily encouraging. However, he’s even more dominant as a run blocker. It all starts with leverage for Taylor in the ground game. Once he engages his opponent and gets a grip on them, the clamps are turned on. Taylor has exceptional leg drive and holds his form while pushing defenders away from the play. His combination of power and reach makes it easy to open running lanes.

 

As polished as Taylor may be for a guy who’s only played football for about four or five years, of course, he’s not a finished product. You see Taylor struggle when reacting inside to delayed blitzes. Developing an inside power step would do wonders for his game and that’s something that should come with time and more experience. Taylor has also shown inconsistent grip strength and hand usage.

Despite the rawness in terms of experience, Taylor possesses the unmatched size and physical tools. He’s much further along than you’d expect for a player who has only had football as their sole focus for a few years. Taylor has absolutely dominated the competition over these past two seasons and has played his way to being an NFL Draft pick.

2020 NFL Draft status

Through all of the HBCU/FCS prospects I’ve evaluated thus far, Alex Taylor is the best I’ve seen and has the best chance of getting drafted. Size and athleticism will always draw scouts. However, when you have a quality, improving skillset to go along with that, the sky is the limit.

NFL scouts are sure to have caught wind of Taylor by now. In what is viewed to be a top-heavy offensive line class, Taylor will be a prime project pick in the mid-late rounds. I’d love to see him get a chance to perform at the Senior Bowl this winter and compete against some of the best college football has to offer. That could do wonders for his draft stock and boost his name recognition.  "

 

 

[gumby73]

Reports from Iowa City say Tristian Wirfs is headed to the NFL Draft...declared.. He's a Junior, that yes may need some NFL coaching polish... Those Key Combine numbers soon to come..   BTW.. All Junior's declaring, must do so by Friday 👀

[mjp28]

5 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

I'm biased against OTs over 6'6"...

I've seen so many who are waist-bending, top-heavy mofos. I know it's an inch or two over my "ideal"... I know there have been a couple good 6'7" LTs... but I've wasted too much time culling thru the too-tall chaff.

Also disagree on coaching when it comes to the OL. The RPO is ruining the college game when it comes to developing a lot more than QBs.

When you look at the list only one 6-4 guy the rest are 6-5 and up.  Not the same game or guys that blocked for Jim Brown at 6-3 and 240 (+/-) in 1964.

You have a point on the RPO which is the norm now in college which happens to be the NFL's minor league or farm system.

[calfoxwc]

just found this:

https://www.nfldraftdiamonds.com/2019/09/offensive-line/

Alex Taylor, OT, South Carolina State – Let’s face it the big guy stands at 6090 and is built like a house.  He is not fat or sloppy, he is a former basketball guy with great footwork and length.  He is one of the best offensive lineman in the entire 2020 NFL Draft, and I feel he will fly up draft boards over the next couple months.

Hunter Watts, OL, Central Arkansas – Central Arkansas deserves to be talked about all month after beating FBS opponent Western Kentucky, and one of the main reasons they won is because Big #77 was a dog against the WKU pass rushers.  The 6080, 320 pound offensive tackle from San Antonio has NFL written all over him.  Remember his name.

Tyler Weterrings, OL, Emory & College – Let’s not just talk about FCS prospects, let’s thrown in some small schools you have never heard about. Weterrings has been the starting left tackle since his Freshman year for the Wasps. He stands at 6080 and weighs 300 pounds. I am a fan of Weterrings and believe he can play at the next level. He will need a little work as his level of competition is a little weak, but I feel he can hold his own against the big dogs. We are talking about a D3 prospect here, but D3 lineman usually do not look like this kid.  He should be at a bigger school, someone dropped the ball when recruiting.

[TexasAg1969]

6 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

just found this:

https://www.nfldraftdiamonds.com/2019/09/offensive-line/

cal I only have one problem with OL from the "underleagues" and that is that they rarely have to match up with the big dogs in the majors. Speed and power of the higher level DL can make a "minor league" star look like a slow pushover. That said I agree we can look at some of those for later rounds. Nothing to lose everything to gain. But if there is a quality "big league" OT sitting there as BPA early on, I'm taking him.

EDIT: Make a point to watch the OLs in all-star games and in the individual matchups in the Combines. Very telling.

[tiamat63]

16 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

1. Seems to be about 50/50 now on if OG will be his best slot. Combine measurements should be interesting.
2. When is the last time you saw a decent college kick step? I honestly can't remember...
3. Yup... I was there, too.

 

2 - it's been a little while. Ryan Ramsyck, maybe? (Spell check) 

 

1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said:

cal I only have one problem with OL from the "underleagues" and that is that they rarely have to match up with the big dogs in the majors. Speed and power of the higher level DL can make a "minor league" star look like a slow pushover. That said I agree we can look at some of those for later rounds. Nothing to lose everything to gain. But if there is a quality "big league" OT sitting there as BPA early on, I'm taking him.

EDIT: Make a point to watch the OLs in all-star games and in the individual matchups in the Combines. Very telling.

Ali Marpet was a small school favorite of some of us a few years back.  You are right, the level of play needs to be taken into account.  But if a player shows out and handles his competition, then proper judgement must be done with a keen eye.

[calfoxwc]

2 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

cal I only have one problem with OL from the "underleagues" and that is that they rarely have to match up with the big dogs in the majors. Speed and power of the higher level DL can make a "minor league" star look like a slow pushover. That said I agree we can look at some of those for later rounds. Nothing to lose everything to gain. But if there is a quality "big league" OT sitting there as BPA early on, I'm taking him.

EDIT: Make a point to watch the OLs in all-star games and in the individual matchups in the Combines. Very telling.

Absolutely. There are gems out there, though. The Titans have a ROG, Nate Davis, 3rd round pick - played at Charlotte College, NC.

[TexasAg1969]

29 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

Absolutely. There are gems out there, though. The Titans have a ROG, Nate Davis, 3rd round pick - played at Charlotte College, NC.

And he is definitely a good one. Titans can run so much Henry at people because of that OL. And they make the PA pass work like a charm off of that as well. And Tannehill ended the season as the highest rated QB in the NFL. That line is awesome. We have the skill people to go with it, so now we just need a couple more key pieces to make it go.

[Tour2ma]

22 hours ago, gumby73 said:

Reports from Iowa City say Tristian Wirfs is headed to the NFL Draft...declared.. Those Key Combine numbers soon to come..

I expect him to run a strong 40... curious to see if other times/measures are as good. Then there's the all-important arm-length...

12 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Ali Marpet was a small school favorite of some of us a few years back.  You are right, the level of play needs to be taken into account.  But if a player shows out and handles his competition, then proper judgement must be done with a keen eye.

And credit NFL's Senior Bowl scouts for showing him to us... Hobart wasn't exactly on my watch list.

[The Gipper]

Some FAs that Stinky may attract, blurbs from article :

 it wouldn’t be surprising to see Kevin Stefanski bring someone in that he knows to build depth on the O-line — such as Rashod Hill.

One such wideout who was there for six years with Stefanski is Jarius Wright, who joined Minnesota in 2012 as a fourth-round draft pick. During his time with the Vikings, he proved to be a solid pass-catcher,

 

 the Vikings have one player set for free agency that meets a huge need for Cleveland:   Anthony Harris went from an undrafted kid from Virginia to one of the best players on a stellar defense. Harris was a reserve for the majority of his career up until 2018, when he started nine games. In that campaign, he ended up with 46 tackles, three picks, and six pass defenses.

 

[The Gipper]

This may be somewhat old news:

The Cleveland Browns signed eight players to the reserve/futures list:

DT Brandin Bryant
LB Jermaine Grace
CB Donnie Lewis Jr.
LB Montrel Meander
WR J'Mon Moore
G Malcolm Pridgeon
G Willie Wright
DE Trevon Young

All eight players spent time on the Browns' practice squad in 2019.

[Gorka]

22 hours ago, gumby73 said:

Reports from Iowa City say Tristian Wirfs is headed to the NFL Draft...declared.. He's a Junior, that yes may need some NFL coaching polish... Those Key Combine numbers soon to come..   BTW.. All Junior's declaring, must do so by Friday 👀

Or Polish coaching which ever way you want to look at it.

[One Post]

Whatever the draft picks are for any team...plz don't ask me to do the mock draft again. Some people are workaholics.

[ballpeen]

Mekhi Becton, LT   Louisville

[tiamat63]

So far I've picked up and watched 

- Bravvion Roy

- Tristin Wirfs

- Grant Delpit

I'll keep focusing on Wrifs and see him all the way through his 2019 season.  Then I'll close the book and finish up on my thoughts on the other two before moving on. But there is a theme so far in Wirfs film - control (lack of)  And he frequently loses his feet in pass pro and run blocking.

Go ahead and fast forward to 1:30 in this next clip.   The idea on this zone block is that once he crosses the face of the edge defender, he should move to the 2nd level and look for work there while the playside OG on the stretch picks up the edge defender.  Wirfs does the former, but without the added benefit of ripping past with his arms and keeping his base - arrives to the MIKE backer and barely gets a chip on him.  Which in turns allow that same MIKE to get back into the play and damn near pull off the tackle.  Credit to the linebacker for the motor, he never stopped fighting through to the ball carrier.    Again, I don't see the devastating run blocking at any point during the previous cutups or this one vs Minnesota.  So I'm wondering who in the hell gave him that label...?      

Minny played a lot more 'heads up' on the ends and as a result, Tristan really wasn't threatened with speed.  So naturally he looked "better" a little better in pass pro that particular week.   But I still question this kids ability to hold up vs NFL speed on the end without serious (and I mean serious) work.   \

edit:  Almost forgot to point out.  In this same clip at 2:13, Wirfs gets to the 2nd level on that same zone stretch.  Only he gets to the backer, try's to lock him up and drive him back, only to lose his feet as the backer properly uses his arms to work clean of Tristan.    At which point our supposed #10 overall pick falls right over.   I just...  I'm not getting the hype so far and the more I watch,  the less I'm convinced.     Is the physical potential there? Sure, it is with most every prospect.  It's the NFL, these are the best of the best athletes.  But the mental game, the drive and making the little things 2nd nature is what makes you great.   This kid will need those things in spades before he's ready.  On top of a shit ton of hours spent improving his kick step.

 

 

 

 

[calfoxwc]

Tour - how do you see Mekhi Becton? I watch him, and it's tough to believe he can play so well at that weight.

I'm not a big Wirfs LT draft advocate. I think he ends up inside, maybe RT depending.

[TexasAg1969]

tia-Wirfs sounds like the perfect wiff for a 1st round Browns pick.       "Tradition"-Fiddler on the Roof

If Depo's analytics gets him send them both packin'.

[tiamat63]

Skipped ahead to the bowl game.  A lot like a book, I wondered if the ending would be worth the read.     At 6:09... it's the best snap I believe I've seen Wirfs take in pass pro.     There are times his technique is just lazy.  Either that or professional conditioning will do him a world of good.   Seen spots in the previous games where he waist bends a good deal and doesn't get his head up.   Granted, this is the bowl season game.  A few weeks off to rest and get healthy tends to make a large difference.   Obviously I'm not privy to any medical or training information about this kid like our front office will be, so my best takes are always educated guesses.   

Here - good weight distribution, knee bend, weight not too far in front of him or behind him, head up/eyes up.       USC kept throwing a TE stunt his way a handful of times throughout this game from a similar look.  A 4iTech line and a 7tech, 2pt edge...   There was real no decision to make unless the DI crosses his face to attack his outside shoulder, then the edge would loop inside and (coaches willing) be picked up by the guard.      What we get is a smooth kick step,  where he doesn't let his man get outside shoulder too fast, but doesn't over extend setting up to get beat inside, hands locked up the moment the DE goes to make contact,  continues to drive his hands up and under the DE's pads.  

My only real problems with this are - still finishing high in his stance/needing work on leverage and pad level.  His initial punch lacks just that - punch.   And USC doesn't have real talent on the ends to gauge just how impressive this snap COULD* have been.    Again, sadly, this is his best snap I've seen so far.    

It's still solid work and shows that the small details are fixable and that his feet can be smooth in the drop step.   There is raw material here to work with, but one has to weigh any cap on a potential ceiling if you should draft this kid high and throw him into the fire year 1.

 

 

 

 

 

[Tour2ma]

23 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

Tour - how do you see Mekhi Becton? I watch him, and it's tough to believe he can play so well at that weight.

Haven't looked yet, cal.

3 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

tia-Wirfs sounds like the perfect wiff for a 1st round Browns pick.       "Tradition"-Fiddler on the Roof

If Depo's analytics gets him send them both packin'.

Keep a good thought....

[tiamat63]

Pausing Wirfs for just a moment. I'll most likely do 2 more games of his this season.  Though I doubt I'll see anything beyond what he has already shown and we just have to be patient for the combine...

 

Sleeper RT has emerged after watching some highlights of the Shrine game.    Especially if the Browns running game heads in the direction I expect it too.    6'4, 300lbs... great feet.   

 

 

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, JimboJones said:

Currently, Javon Kinlaw, Isaiah Simmons or Grant Delpit should be our pick at #10.  Leaning towards Kinlaw.  Anyone see him at the senior bowl?

Assuming Joe Burrow, Chase Young, Derrick Brown, Andrew Thomas, Jeff Okudah are all off the board by #10

I don't think the Senior Bowl has been played yet. 

[JimboJones]

3 hours ago, The Gipper said:

I don't think the Senior Bowl has been played yet. 

senior bowl practice.

And I deleted my post after you replied because I realized I haven't even see much of Wills, Becton and Wirffs.

Anyways I could only find a few vids of Kinlaw at the SB practice on twitter which is why I'm wondering if anyone has seen more of him, but he's said to have dominated by the twitter user below...here are the few clips

 

[tiamat63]

Never really had much regard for Kipwr or McShay.    DJ on the other hand always seemed decent to me. 

Mocks Wirfs to the Cards as an OG.  So somebody else is at least seeing some similar things that I am.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/dknation.draftkings.com/platform/amp/nfl/2020/1/22/21075609/2020-nfl-mock-draft-daniel-jeremiah-team-needs-joe-burrow-justin-herbert-justin-love-tua-tagovailoa

[Tour2ma]

14 hours ago, JimboJones said:

Anyways I could only find a few vids of Kinlaw at the SB practice on twitter

Starting today the practices are on ESPNU... 1:30 to 3:30 and 4:00 to 6:00 EST.

PFF has Kinlaw as their #2 Int Defender and #14 overall prospect. Here are their 2019 notes...

Quote

Kinlaw put on an otherworldly display against Missouri in Week 4. Recording four hurries, one hit and one sack in 25 pass-rushing snaps, Kinlaw earned a 93.0 single-game pass-rushing grade for his efforts against the Tigers. It’s must-watch tape for all of Kinlaw’s fans and doubters. He recorded two or more pressures in every game he played in through Week 7, including six pressures in the Gamecocks’ upset win over Georgia.

 

[tiamat63]

Kid isn't technical, polished or disciplined... but holy shit is he quick, strong and violent.  

[The Gipper]

2 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Kid isn't technical, polished or disciplined... but holy shit is he quick, strong and violent.  

Coachable? 

[JimboJones]

Found a couple more of Kinlaw.  Tripped in the first one then came back with the swim move.

My current top 4 for pick #10:

1. DL Javon Kinlaw

2. RT Isaiah Wilson

3. S Grant Delpit

4. LB Isaiah Simmons

Assuming Joe Burrow, Chase Young, Derrick Brown, Andrew Thomas, Jeff Okudah are all off the board by #10.

And I haven't watched enough of Wills, Becton and Wirfs yet.

[tiamat63]

15 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Coachable? 

No idea.  I only have what I see on tape and then public comments made by coaches, interviewers and team mates.   Although improvement from year to year can help indicate ones reception to being coached.