The 'Who you watching?' 2020 thread.

[The Gipper]

I believe, with this loss, the Browns are mathematically eliminated.    Even with their loss, the Titans worst record can be 8-8.  The best the Browns can be is 8-8.  The Tits hold the  head to head tie breaker.   Maybe, if, somehow, there were a 3 way tie or something they could still have a chance....but who can count on that.

Ergo....time for draft talk. Right?   Too early?

As things stand now, the Browns would draft basically right in the middle:   #14. 

Besides better coaching...better coaching...and better coaching   what are the Browns most pressing personnel needs to go after in FA or the Draft?  

[Dutch Oven]

Offense: OTackles, Tight End

Defense: Starting caliber DE, DT, more LBs and safeties. 

[The Gipper]

Just a note:   technically, apparently the Browns are NOT eliminated.   I guess it would take a very weird combination of factors for them to stay alive,  but mathematically I guess that is possible. Probably less than a 1% chance.

[Orion]

So we won't be officially eliminated until next week?   Just like last year?  

We missed the playoffs not because we didn't beat enough of the GOOD teams on the schedule, we didn't beat enough BAD teams on our schedule.   We lost to Denver, Pittsburgh and Phoenix.  Give us those wins and we're 9-5 right now.

Bottom line, we weren't good enough.

We can list the issues.  Undisciplined early in the season.  Injuries to key defensive players like edge rushers and CB's.  A 'freak' thing like our best edge rusher getting kicked out for the season for whacking a player over the head with his own helmet....and a LT getting kicked out of a game for kicking a player.   And the offensive line rotating door.  Add to that a rookie HC learning as he goes.  All things that helped sink the ship.

But in the end, we come back to the fact that we just weren't good enough.  

[Orion]

.....and did Higgins kick Freddie's dog or something?  

[Tour2ma]

How many picks do you think we have, Dutch???

We have:

• One 1st
• One 2nd
• Two 3rds (*corrected)
• One 4th (*corrected)
• One 6th, and
• Two 7ths

Thru today's games we set up to pick 14th.

 

As for when to start the draft talk... it's after underclassmen declare.

Right now this OL class is pretty thin... especially at OT... but after a dose of Juniors it looks a lot better.... at least two, 1st-round-quality LTs better.... and one is even named Thomas.

[Unsympathetic]

First round has to be OT.  Seriously, stop messing around.  14 is a good spot for one of Wirfs / Wills / Jackson.  Yes, I'm assuming we win the coin flip w Carolina. I'm not sold on the Louisville guy.

Second round has to be LB/S if Randall or Schobert walks.

We have Titans' 3rd in addition to ours because Duke Johnson is good [who knew?] so we'd have 14 and something in the 20's.. LB/S/DL.

 

[Tour2ma]

1 hour ago, Unsympathetic said:

First round has to be OT.  Seriously, stop messing around.  14 is a good spot for one of Wirfs / Wills / Jackson.  Yes, I'm assuming we win the coin flip w Carolina. I'm not sold on the Louisville guy.

Second round has to be LB/S if Randall or Schobert walks.

We have Titans' 3rd in addition to ours because Duke Johnson is good [who knew?] so we'd have 14 and something in the 20's.. LB/S/DL. 

You are correct except that would be the Texans' 3rd-rounder... which was the 2nd 4th in my original list. By Duke being active for at least 10 games the 4th became a 3rd. How good that means he is is debatable...

https://www.prosportstransactions.com/football/DraftTrades/Future/Browns.htm

Why Wills, BAMA's RT, and not their LT, Leatherwood?

[gumby73]

wheres the beef? count 92 of 110... https://seniorbowl.com/accepted-invites/  as of now, the list is small for underclassman declared...Have till 1-14-20 to do so..(but not senior bowl eligible)     

[Bob806]

9 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Offense: OTackles, Tight End

Defense: Starting caliber DE, DT, more LBs and safeties. 

I like Redwine in the little he's played.

Greedy & Ward should be studs, but they aren't. I hope it's due to the lousy scheme. Right now, these guys have little interest in tackling. 

[Zombo]

8 minutes ago, Bob806 said:

I like Redwine in the little he's played.

Greedy & Ward should be studs, but they aren't. I hope it's due to the lousy scheme. Right now, these guys have little interest in tackling. 

Someone should teach Redwime that when the 6'6 TE is in the air in the corner of the end zone, you don't reach up at the ball, you push the guy out of bounds.

Z

[MLD Woody]

Awesome! Draft talk. My favorite time of year

[SdBacker80]

lots of offense talks but The defense is trash and I know Myles is out.  And Wilkes maybe hindering any progress (he needs to be fired). 

We could use a playmaker at Safety.  If Jamal Adams is truly available he could be a guy we target.  

[SdBacker80]

36 minutes ago, Bob806 said:

I like Redwine in the little he's played.

Greedy & Ward should be studs, but they aren't. I hope it's due to the lousy scheme. Right now, these guys have little interest in tackling. 

Greedys biggest problem isn’t tackling.  He doesn’t use that elite speed and athleticism in coverage.  He doesn’t seem to have ball skills or the technique to defend a pass. 
 

 

[Bob806]

24 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

Greedys biggest problem isn’t tackling.  He doesn’t use that elite speed and athleticism in coverage.  He doesn’t seem to have ball skills or the technique to defend a pass. 
 

 

CBs have a tough job. Some of it depends on the pass rush, which the Browns are struggling with, especially with Garrett out. 

Athleticism in coverage would include contact IMHO. Something he tends to avoid.

[The Gipper]

59 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

lots of offense talks but The defense is trash and I know Myles is out.  And Wilkes maybe hindering any progress (he needs to be fired). 

We could use a playmaker at Safety.  If Jamal Adams is truly available he could be a guy we target.  

Wilks is running primarily this  4-2-5 defense.    Which I think I hate.

And as yesterday prove, that is susceptible to having other teams run you right out of the house.  

So, while perhaps the primary need is for OL.....we still need help, I believe, at all 3 levels of defense:  DL, LB, DB.  Best available among them of OL  would be the way to go.

[TexasAg1969]

3 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Wilks is running primarily this  4-2-5 defense.    Which I think I hate.

And as yesterday prove, that is susceptible to having other teams run you right out of the house.  

So, while perhaps the primary need is for OL.....we still need help, I believe, at all 3 levels of defense:  DL, LB, DB.  Best available among them of OL  would be the way to go.

We just need to bring in another team in Ohio with all their players and call it Clevelanatti. That would solve a lot for the state of NFL football in Ohio.

[mjp28]

1 hour ago, MLD Woody said:

Awesome! Draft talk. My favorite time of year

Says Mr Wolverine......ok so you won the 2019 TBB NCAA PICKEM.  

A whole bunch of Buckeyes on the draft board.

[Dutch Oven]

Well, we made it to December before talking draft.

Baby steps, I suppose. 

[mjp28]

2 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

Well, we made it to December before talking draft.

Baby steps, I suppose. 

That's being nice about it......do you think they can beat last year's 7-8-1 record?  

......oh I can't wait to see your Browns '19 questions unveiled.

[mjp28]

Just going over my picks...

1. Browns record?

2. Bengals record?  2-14 still have a chance there!

3. Ravens record?

4. Steelers record?

The rest are too funny!  

 

[Furious Styles]

2 hours ago, Bob806 said:

Greedy & Ward should be studs, but they aren't. I hope it's due to the lousy scheme. Right now, these guys have little interest in tackling. 

Tackling was one of the few negatives in their predraft analysis if I remember correctly.

[browns52]

13 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Just a note:   technically, apparently the Browns are NOT eliminated.   I guess it would take a very weird combination of factors for them to stay alive,  but mathematically I guess that is possible. Probably less than a 1% chance.

we have eight tenths chance to make the playoffs...saw it today on espn.....so now that the season is over and i think they will get smacked around the last 2 games based on the way they played yesterday, i guess it's time to talk draft....ho hum....its like every fucking season now for 21 yrs, lets talk about the draft...lets talk about the draft...kind of sick of this shit....

[browns52]

13 hours ago, The Gipper said:

I believe, with this loss, the Browns are mathematically eliminated.    Even with their loss, the Titans worst record can be 8-8.  The best the Browns can be is 8-8.  The Tits hold the  head to head tie breaker.   Maybe, if, somehow, there were a 3 way tie or something they could still have a chance....but who can count on that.

Ergo....time for draft talk. Right?   Too early?

As things stand now, the Browns would draft basically right in the middle:   #14. 

Besides better coaching...better coaching...and better coaching   what are the Browns most pressing personnel needs to go after in FA or the Draft?  

your comment on  better coaching is the more important topic than the draft....because if we cannot find the right coaching staff, which we don't have from top to bottom, what fucking good is the draft.....

[browns52]

2 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Wilks is running primarily this  4-2-5 defense.    Which I think I hate.

And as yesterday prove, that is susceptible to having other teams run you right out of the house.  

So, while perhaps the primary need is for OL.....we still need help, I believe, at all 3 levels of defense:  DL, LB, DB.  Best available among them of OL  would be the way to go.

and he will still run the four two five d which i hate also....and we will get the same results....he sucks as a dc....he is as bad as hillbilly freddy is as hc....

[The Gipper]

8 minutes ago, browns52 said:

we have eight tenths chance to make the playoffs...saw it today on espn.....so now that the season is over and i think they will get smacked around the last 2 games based on the way they played yesterday, i guess it's time to talk draft....ho hum....its like every fucking season now for 21 yrs, lets talk about the draft...lets talk about the draft...kind of sick of this shit....

Well, I think it is apparent that this team has quit on Ferd.

[SdBacker80]

2 hours ago, Furious Styles said:

Tackling was one of the few negatives in their predraft analysis if I remember correctly.

And He’s actually flashed a few times here and made plays at the LOS.  
 

The problem I see- He doesn’t play in anyone’s hip pocket.  He doesn’t locate the ball well.  And he doesn’t utilize his typically superior speed and athleticism. 
 

As a team we’ve given too much cushion all year the problem with that we are also getting beat deep in chunk plays too.   You hope at the very least it’s one or the other. 
 

Whatever coverage we ran yesterday didn’t include the zone in the middle of our defense.  Every Baker pass was contested, Every Murray pass was a pass into a soft zone where it was pitch/catch and YAC. 
 

 

[SdBacker80]

The only statement this defense has made the last three weeks - they don’t want Wilks and Freddie back next year 

[Tour2ma]

5 hours ago, Furious Styles said:

Tackling was one of the few negatives in their predraft analysis if I remember correctly.

In Greedy's case I remember the same about his "willingness"and early I saw signs of this. However, as I've posted elsewhere I've been surprised/pleased with the improvement I've seen since his return to the line up. Improvement that includes the above mentioned TFLs he's made.

The questions about Ward's tackling that I recall were more along the lines of whether his body would hold up for how aggressive he is. We saw that play out last year with the two(?) concussions he suffered. So far no recurrence this season, IIRC, but also missing is the level of productivity he flashed as a rookie. Are they both products of a more cautious approach? I dunno...

[Orion]

7 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Well, we made it to December before talking draft.

Baby steps, I suppose. 

Yeah, very baby step.  I think we were eliminated the same time last year.

We will have played a LOT of this season without our 2 starting edge rushers.   In a pass & rush the passer league, that's a big issue.  Your D is just NOT gonna be that good if QB's get a lot of time to pass.  

Do we need to draft a DE?  As Vernon insurance?  Or can we add there in free agency?

What are we doing at LB'er?  What's up with Shobert?  (he's productive!)  -  Are we going to continue to play a 4-2-5?  (we need to know that before FA)

The turnstile that is our OL needs 2 tackles and a guard.  That's going to require FA & the draft.  

...and TE has been a turnstile.....and unexpectedly, #3 & 4 receiver.....(Callaway & Higgins disappeared, never to come back)

Many of us had offensive concerns because of the OL.....and then our DL went 'POOF'.

-----------  a very strange season this was ------------