crunchy Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 10 minutes ago, MDDawg said: When they were unsalvageable, he’d cut his own: Callaway, Whitehead and Corbett. Productive players who weren’t his guys were inactivated or dispensed of otherwise. This is why we're screwed. The new gm will get rid of a bunch of good players just because they're not HIS guys. The only one safe is Garrett. If Baker is shipped out or they draft his replacement and undermine him, it will be 10x as dumb as firing Dorsey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 41 minutes ago, Ibleedbrown said: He played guard too. I’m an unabashed Tretter fan, so not advocating for a change at Center. Everyone here should be an unabashed Tretter fan. Dude has played his heart out for us, usually hurt, and has played well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted January 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 20 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said: Everyone here should be an unabashed Tretter fan. Dude has played his heart out for us, usually hurt, and has played well. AND, something that doesn't seem to matter much, he's a good guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDDawg Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 33 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said: Like Tretter, Bitonio, Ogunjobi, Garrett, Schobert, Kirksey (who didn't play much but would have started both Dorsey years)... You make Dorsey out to be different than EVERY new GM who stocks his team with HIS guys. You don't think that's going to happen in the next season or two? He was head of football operations his mandate is to build a team not create holes just to bring his guys in which happened all too often. This is an unfortunate trait of many GMs but it’s still a flaw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 Not many here were giving short odds of Kirk and Schobert being here for 2020. And Ogun did not exactly capitalize on his opportunity in 2019. Meanwhile back at the thread... Dorsey brought in both Robinson and Hubbard... and stuck with them for two years. And how many OGs did he bring in to replace the failed Corbett replacement of Zeitler? 3? 4? ... so there's that. The man had a major blind spot when it came to the OL. Same was true in KC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 http://www.clevsworld.com/2019/12/the-browns-2019-failures-rest-most.html?m=1 WSS 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjp28 Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 Good read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7moses7 Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 Pretty much sums it up. The Coffee Fetcher failed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 Dorsey's downfall was hiring Fred Kitchens as HC. I believe If he would have kept the same coaches from the year before with Greg Williams as HC the Browns would have made the play offs this year and we would not be in this position. Williams brought discipline to the table which was sorely lacking this season with Kitchens. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 37 minutes ago, OldBrownsFan said: Dorsey's downfall was hiring Fred Kitchens as HC. I believe If he would have kept the same coaches from the year before with Greg Williams as HC the Browns would have made the play offs this year and we would not be in this position. Williams brought discipline to the table which was sorely lacking this season with Kitchens. I think you are correct but like everybody else I thought Freddy was something of a wunderkind and would be snapped up immediately without the promotion by another team. I don't agree with these conclusions, or anyone's, concerning Baker and the ever-present chip on his shoulder. I personally like that attitude like I did with Namath and Favre and even Jim McMahon. Still a great deal of the players the article point to as being suspect are young it should be improving the second and third year. Might they grow into their roles as well as kitchens? Of course it's too late now so the next regime will get a fresh 18 months to get to the Superbowl before they are fired. WSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 On 1/2/2020 at 8:24 AM, Westside Steve said: I think you are correct but like everybody else I thought Freddy was something of a wunderkind and would be snapped up immediately without the promotion by another team. I don't agree with these conclusions, or anyone's, concerning Baker and the ever-present chip on his shoulder. I personally like that attitude like I did with Namath and Favre and even Jim McMahon. Still a great deal of the players the article point to as being suspect are young it should be improving the second and third year. Might they grow into their roles as well as kitchens? WSS The Browns had a nice turnaround last season after Hue Jackson was fired and Greg Williams took over as interm HC. I thought Williams earned the HC position this season with how the team responded after he was the HC last season. I'm not sure about Kitchens growing into a HC. Even with giving him a learning curve as a rookie HC the team didn't improve by the end of the season but seemed to be going backwards. I think Baker will be better with a better offensive line that can give him time to throw. Dorsey did bring in some good talent at the skill positions but not so well with the offensive line. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBrown Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/browns-maven-features/john-dorsey-had-to-go-plus-the-cleveland-browns-must-embrace-informed-decision-making 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 22 hours ago, Tour2ma said: Not many here were giving short odds of Kirk and Schobert being here for 2020. And Ogun did not exactly capitalize on his opportunity in 2019. Meanwhile back at the thread... Dorsey brought in both Robinson and Hubbard... and stuck with them for two years. And how many OGs did he bring in to replace the failed Corbett replacement of Zeitler? 3? 4? ... so there's that. The man (Dorsey) had a major blind spot when it came to the OL. Same was true in KC No kidding.... Reading the article Steve posted, besides fixing the OL, it sure looks like there's just too many holes in the roster elsewhere to be realistically fixed in just one off season. 15 hours ago, Westside Steve said: http://www.clevsworld.com/2019/12/the-browns-2019-failures-rest-most.html?m=1 WSS Article of the year Steve- it should be required reading for any Browns fan. I've posted elsewhere it may look like hell to the rest of the NFL (same old Browns being Brownsian), but Haslam made the correct call demanding Dorsey relinquish final say on a lot of issues... Here's a couple nuggets from the article... "Similarly, adopting John Dorsey’s message, Freddie was empowered to stubbornly ignore the mistakes he made week after week in attempting to make Baker, OBJ and Jarvis the focus of the offense instead of what the Browns did the best – run the football." I said elsewhere Haslam's mantra for the front office is "plays well with others" Dorsey couldn't... "It is time for the Browns to understand what Kansas City figured out a few years ago. A good organization does not need John Dorsey. It needs grown men who can put their egos aside and work together toward a common goal." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 30 minutes ago, LondonBrown said: https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/browns-maven-features/john-dorsey-had-to-go-plus-the-cleveland-browns-must-embrace-informed-decision-making Another nice article London. What I fear though from the article.... "Paul DePodesta running the head coaching search could ultimately result in another bad head coaching hire for this team, but it won't be because of his past as a baseball executive." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 2 hours ago, hoorta said: No kidding.... Reading the article Steve posted, besides fixing the OL, it sure looks like there's just too many holes in the roster elsewhere to be realistically fixed in just one off season. Article of the year Steve- it should be required reading for any Browns fan. I've posted elsewhere it may look like hell to the rest of the NFL (same old Browns being Brownsian), but Haslam made the correct call demanding Dorsey relinquish final say on a lot of issues... Here's a couple nuggets from the article... "Similarly, adopting John Dorsey’s message, Freddie was empowered to stubbornly ignore the mistakes he made week after week in attempting to make Baker, OBJ and Jarvis the focus of the offense instead of what the Browns did the best – run the football." I said elsewhere Haslam's mantra for the front office is "plays well with others" Dorsey couldn't... "It is time for the Browns to understand what Kansas City figured out a few years ago. A good organization does not need John Dorsey. It needs grown men who can put their egos aside and work together toward a common goal." That's what I thought when I gave it it's own thread, I didn't mean to clutter the place up but I think it covered almost everything. In a reasonable and even-handed way with a lack of sugar coating. WSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted January 3, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 Well, this thread has done some good for our sanity. WC Steve's article sure pointed out a lot of stuff that we saw but may have been obscured by the trees (can't see the forest for the trees). In fairness to Dorsey, he DID see the OL tackle problems and brought in some guys for it....and the OLine play DID in fact improve over the latter half of 2018....but 2019 did not demonstrate that improvement. ...and many of us DID NOT like that he let Darren Fells go, so I'm glad to see that the article supported our feelings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 4 hours ago, LondonBrown said: https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/browns-maven-features/john-dorsey-had-to-go-plus-the-cleveland-browns-must-embrace-informed-decision-making I absolutely love that you keep posting Pete Smith's garbage. I actually know this tool. He's a local JV high school assistant coach (or was) who fancies himself as a football guru. Like you with Sashi, Pete had to be put on suicide watch when the Browns fired Joe Banner. He's a dork who never came close to actually playing a second of football who desperately wants the DePodestas, Sashi Browns and Joe Banners of the world to be relevant to validate his dream of being something in football, and the John Dorseys of the world are keeping him from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 I'd forgotten about the genius that was the Brockmeister trade... Actually Smith was wanting Andrew Berry to come back and succeed... I could live with that. Both articles were good opinion pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBrown Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said: I absolutely love that you keep posting Pete Smith's garbage. I actually know this tool. He's a local JV high school assistant coach (or was) who fancies himself as a football guru. Like you with Sashi, Pete had to be put on suicide watch when the Browns fired Joe Banner. He's a dork who never came close to actually playing a second of football who desperately wants the DePodestas, Sashi Browns and Joe Banners of the world to be relevant to validate his dream of being something in football, and the John Dorseys of the world are keeping him from it. He has a decent gig writing for SI whereas you spend most of your day throwing insults at someone thousands of miles away via the Internet I’m not sure he’s the tool when sat in a room with you to be honest Dutchie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 1 hour ago, LondonBrown said: He has a decent gig writing for SI whereas you spend most of your day throwing insults at someone thousands of miles away via the Internet I’m not sure he’s the tool when sat in a room with you to be honest Dutchie When you threatened to quit this board and stormed off when you were called out for being a whiny bitch, were your tears extra salty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDDawg Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 3 hours ago, Dutch Oven said: I absolutely love that you keep posting Pete Smith's garbage. I actually know this tool. He's a local JV high school assistant coach (or was) who fancies himself as a football guru. Like you with Sashi, Pete had to be put on suicide watch when the Browns fired Joe Banner. He's a dork who never came close to actually playing a second of football who desperately wants the DePodestas, Sashi Browns and Joe Banners of the world to be relevant to validate his dream of being something in football, and the John Dorseys of the world are keeping him from it. Besides hating Landry (and Chad Thomas) his takes are usually pretty good plus they're good enough for Sports Illustrated to pay him for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 14 minutes ago, MDDawg said: Besides hating Landry (and Chad Thomas) his takes are usually pretty good plus they're good enough for Sports Illustrated to pay him for them. I specifically loved how he kept telling us for years how Barkevious Mingo was a great pick for the Browns, and Mangini's first draft was genius because he refused to ever admit he was wrong. His love for Joe Banner was PoG/Saquon creepy... 😃 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDDawg Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 13 hours ago, Dutch Oven said: I specifically loved how he kept telling us for years how Barkevious Mingo was a great pick for the Browns, and Mangini's first draft was genius because he refused to ever admit he was wrong. His love for Joe Banner was PoG/Saquon creepy... 😃 Doesn't Mingo have a SB ring with the Patriots? We're victims of innumerable scheme changes that hasn't enhanced our players strengths. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 4, 2020 Report Share Posted January 4, 2020 10 minutes ago, Baking up Turnovers said: Drafting Baker 1st overall when he could have taken Sam Darnold, Josh Allen or future HOFer Lamar Jackson. Signing Hunt Hiring Kitchens Bringing in OBJ. We could have let Ghoolie ...or Retard back on the board instead of letting you back on. So, we all make mistakes. I do NOT think what you say is proof that any mistake was made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icecube Posted January 4, 2020 Report Share Posted January 4, 2020 On 12/31/2019 at 10:49 PM, Orion said: Drafting Corbett ahead of Nick Chubb at the start of round 2 after having all night and day to think it over. Drafting Corbett AT ALL. Trading Zeitler away for Vernon. (points right back to the Corbett decision, except a year later) After signing Hunt, answering the reporter's question, "Does signing Hunt make Duke expendable?" by saying, "Not yet." That obviously made Duke feel like shit so that he wanted out. And Duke is/was MILES better than Hilliard! Hiring Freddie. Perhaps some of us would have done the same thing, but it's still on Dorsey. ......what else goes on the negative side of the ledger? I mean, to me, he brought in a lot of talent. He made some mistakes, but that's being human. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted January 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 I forget, did we mention letting Darren Fells go? We must have. He had a pretty nice game against Buffalo today. Of course he shouldn't be left alone blocking a defensive end. Taking our OL from a condition that needed tweaking, to a condition of major work required was the thing that really crippled the team the most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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