Freddie fired

[gumby73]

17 minutes ago, Orion said:

John has done a very good job!  Has he made some blunders?  Yes, which is proof positive that he's a human being.

From the Flugs,  A Christmas Story.. I count 1 Schobert & 1 Bitonio & a bare as$ butt Tree 🌲... Dorsey had to accelerate others, just to cover the others drafting blunders.. 

[Flugel]

On 12/1/2019 at 9:17 PM, Dutch Oven said:

I'm so conflicted on this. 

I've not been a fan of what I've seen of this team, on and off the field, but I've often complained about the Browns continually changing head coaches. I don't want to fire Kitchens, but I also don't want him to continue to Retard this team's progress. I really don't see how this team has improved from this time last season, but I hate the idea of starting over again... but I hate the idea of having Kitchens still running this team next year... ugh. 

Well said Dutch!  

Sorry for the length here but I can't hold some of this stuff hostage.   I don't know if I'm right or wrong; but I get the sense the main reason Dorsey wanted Freddie is because Dorsey wants to remain in total control of this team rather than getting the "yeah but" from a Head Coach with prior experience.  For example, "Way to close the year strong Gregg!  Now don't let the door hit you in the asss on the way out!"  Some parting shots followed from our OL Coach that said QB Coach Zampese was the guy that did a lot of the work/new play designs Freddie got credit for.  After watching the play calling and Baker's performance decline significantly for much of 2019 - that makes a lot of sense today. For a place that needs continuity and foundation - that sure got sledgehammered. 

We have a very inexperienced/undisciplined CB in Greedy that starts over Terrence Mitchell because he earned it?  Or, was he a 2nd round pick (our 1st pick) Dorsey felt like he stole that was going to start regardless of how much better a guy like Mitchell has been here when healthy?   Greg Pruitt was asked on the radio what he felt was the problem with our secondary.  He said from his standpoint, our Corners stood a much better chance of intercepting those passes/punts with hang-time downfield if they didn't have their backs to the ball.  You can't intercept/bat what you can't see just like you can't tackle what you can't see if you're head is down.  Greedy got dinged, in came Mitchell and he intercepted a pass in Pittsburgh territory. 

What has me thinking this way is I remembered our DC/Interim HC (GW) last year saying "I might not be able to cut him; but I can make sure he does what we ask of him."  I gotta think when he had his HC interview with Dorsey - he prolly said he wanted a say in the personnel.  That had to go over like the following answer to the question where do you see yourself in 5 years?  "Let's put it this way - you'll be fetching my coffee."  I don't know if Gregg Williams would have been the answer here; but I think he would have handled promoting someone he groomed on his staff to take over the DC position and call the defenses.  We've had multiple times this year  where Freddie was more worried about calling his next play on offense at the expense of challenging a call that should be challenged.  That got a little better recently. 

All this said, if Dorsey was building a foundation and continuity - we shouldn't have almost as much turnover as the White House.  When it starts getting that bad, maybe it's time to look at who's doing the hiring and what the criteria behind it is.  Yeah, he got Baker right.  That said, do we still see a confident QB that makes his line look better in pass pro?  Baker has his 3rd OC (Haley, Freddie, Monken) in less than 2 full seasons.  He's on his 2nd QB Coach and this year I saw Baker trying to throw the ball late from a backward hop while he's had a lot of his passes sail high and/or out of bounds on guys that are open.  Mechanics?  Film eval?  Correct this stuff already.  And what's going on with Higgins this year?  This guy had great chem with Baker last year when we looked to him in key situations at times.

Last but not least, I sense something big we don't know about is going on behind the scenes that we'll hear about within the next month  The same old story with veterans not wanting to be here any more to the extent they aren't going to risk injury especially in Cleveland from here on out is unfolding.  This year we've had more mysterious injuries coming up during the week of practice sidelining guys on game day than  I can recall.  Maybe I'm just noticing it more as higher expectations got punted into Lake Erie.  We've had guys disciplined, benched and inactive.  I've had a bad vibe about Randall all season long and then he misses practice last week. Yes, he's a talented individual. But individuals don't win games especially when they place "I before team" and take such a blatant cheap shot that they are thrown out of the game.  It doesn't end there, the week of the rematch vrs that thinks he's dirty - conveniently does something during the week that he knows will have consequences (like missing a game missing an important piece of preparation without an excuse/heads up ahead).  This is only hearsay but from a consistently good source to me in recent years.  One of the weeks Randall missed a game in concussion protocol - he showed up to practice with bruises and scraps all over his face after a night out at the bars. Sound like a team guy based on what this team pays him?  When GB took the very first trade offer for exchange value for their former 1st round pick - did anyone in our FO research why (especially former GB FO/Scouting employees like Highsmith and Wolf)? In 2018, Randall played through injury and he was willing to play corner when injuries had us needing him to do so. During the offseason, he endorsed Dorsey as a genius.  That said, 2019 is his contract year (so there's an agent attached at the ear lobe); and it sure looks like he wants to get out of here without getting hurt on the gridiron.  Rumor has it he took all the Cleveland Browns logos/pictures/colors off his Twitter/online dwelling; which is what many malcontent players do in the NFL today.  Now that he's going to play again this week - do we get a motivated guy or a sandbagger?  

What happens when a lot of Dorsey's solutions don't work?  We have the foundation and continuity of another Poseiden Adventure on Lake Erie.  Is Freddie just a symptom of a bigger problem?

[mjp28]

4 hours ago, Flugel said:

Well said Dutch!  

Sorry for the length here but I can't hold some of this stuff hostage.   I don't know if I'm right or wrong; but I get the sense the main reason Dorsey wanted Freddie is because Dorsey wants to remain in total control of this team rather than getting the "yeah but" from a Head Coach with prior experience.  For example, "Way to close the year strong Gregg!  Now don't let the door hit you in the asss on the way out!"  Some parting shots followed from our OL Coach that said QB Coach Zampese was the guy that did a lot of the work/new play designs Freddie got credit for.  After watching the play calling and Baker's performance decline significantly for much of 2019 - that makes a lot of sense today. For a place that needs continuity and foundation - that sure got sledgehammered. 

.....What happens when a lot of Dorsey's solutions don't work?  We have the foundation and continuity of another Poseiden Adventure on Lake Erie.  Is Freddie just a symptom of a bigger problem?

Interesting analogy the Poseiden on Lake Erie and Cleveland sports in particular the 21st century Cleveland Browns.

And yet the Cleveland Indians have found relative stability and playoff success in the same period and earlier with ownership, management and the team operations in a smaller market team.

It's like the BROWNS just can't get any of the elements right in doing this thing right.  Even the Cavaliers had their moment in the sun but that was largely LeBron.

SO why can't one do it at all and the other have an ongoing playoff attitude?  (Terry Franconia is a big piece of that ongoing puzzle.)

[hoorta]

9 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Well at least AJ Green was ruled out once again. He's been a wasted FFL pick for me since he was only supposed to miss the first two games. He has not played one game all season.

But the Red Rifleman is back in the saddle so anything can happen.

Oh, BTW, John Ross is finally healthy again, and will play Sunday. Weather forecast is favorable- 50 degrees, no rain the next couple of days. Get your track shoes on Denzel.  

[Tour2ma]

16 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Well at least AJ Green was ruled out once again. He's been a wasted FFL pick for me since he was only supposed to miss the first two games. He has not played one game all season.

But the Red Rifleman is back in the saddle so anything can happen.

I had Green in two leagues... finally cut him loose a couple weeks ago.

Ross is due back so their deep threat is back, but what really worries me is that Dalton will be playing fast and loose.... he has nothing to lose. And if they het a lead they have DEs who can male life miserable for Baker.

15 hours ago, gumby73 said:

"But you can't simultaneously be rebuilding & making moves to win immediately" <<<(have you seen the way this team has drafted the past 5 years before JD?)   

The quoted comment has nothing to do with identifying talent in the draft... it has to do with simultaneously taking two paths that are not compatible.

[Tour2ma]

15 hours ago, Flugel said:

1. I don't know if I'm right or wrong; but I get the sense the main reason Dorsey wanted Freddie is because Dorsey wants to remain in total control of this team rather than getting the "yeah but" from a Head Coach with prior experience.
2. Greedy got dinged, in came Mitchell and he intercepted a pass in Pittsburgh territory. 
3.  I don't know if Gregg Williams would have been the answer here; but I think he would have handled promoting someone he groomed on his staff to take over the DC position and call the defenses.
4. That said, do we still see a confident QB that makes his line look better in pass pro?

Good stuff, Flugs.... even I read the whole thing... ... just whittled it down for comment...

1. I remember having the same reaction at the time. Dorsey and Reed didn't pair too well in KC and Dorsey had just worked hard to outmaneuver Hue, so from his perspective Freddie had to seem like a dream date compared to Williams.
2. As I've written a couple times we were in love with our CBs playing trail tech in the PTG rematch... and I'm not sure why. I sure don't remember it being employed much in our first meeting. Further I don't remember either Ward or Greedy being particularly successful playing it this season... although with Greedy's length I could see it suiting him. But as you point out in comes Mitchell playing on top and he gets a gift.
3. Even if Gregg keep the playcalling responsibilities on Sunday as he did during his interim stint, is experience should have helped him manage the dual role better than a rookie essentially making the jump from being a position coach.
4. As the article that critiqued Dorsey stated...

Quote

The team felt confident in trading Zeitler because of second-year player Austin Corbett, the 33rd overall pick in 2018.

Mayfield no longer has the confidence to step up into the pocket to make strong throws when pressured, something he did a lot of in 2018. This leads to him fading back in the pocket and scrambling around, which makes his tackles, who are already bad, even worse. Greg Robinson is playing the best football of his career, but that’s not exactly saying much. Chris Hubbard, who was signed to a big contract prior to 2018

Good God... I forgot how much we spent on Hubbard.

[TexasAg1969]

9 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

I had Green in two leagues... finally cut him loose a couple weeks ago.

Unfortunately I'm in one that has drops and redraft from available FAs only after weeks 5 and 10. He seemed on the verge of returning so many times I kept him because I was leading the overall league anyway. I took Hunt after week 5 knowing he had 3 more weeks suspension. Now he is finally starting to pay off even though Freddie still just does not quite get that Hunt should be getting the ball all the time inside the 10. That's what he did in KC and when we do it here, he seems to find a way to score like no one else on the team.

[MDDawg]

On 12/3/2019 at 12:26 AM, PoeticG said:

One thing that really stood out to me against Pittsburgh yesterday... Freddy has got to get the plays in FASTER! We've got to get out of the huddle and to the line faster. We've got to line up faster, get the defense set in position and allow Baker time to identify and make adjustments. This has to be faster. There were times when the play clock was about to hit zero and the defense was literally running at the line to hit it right on the snap because they knew that we HAD to snap. We've got to be better. 

The fact that you're pointing out a problem in week 13 that's been obvious since week 1 as all you need to know about Freddie's progress this season. The Offense is terrible, the one thing that won him the job. In hindsight Wiley was right about the fact that last year's offensive success wasn't due to Freddie. I'm all for firing him this season.

[7moses7]

Fire fat fred NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TypicalBrowns50]

Yep dude needs to go ASAP. I hope they lose out if it means it gets rid of fred 

[The Gipper]

We have such terrible coaching on both sides of the ball. Wilkes is terrible Freddie is terrible I guess Monk and is terrible too if he has anything to do with

[7moses7]

Where’s Mike Didka

[browns52]

17 hours ago, 7moses7 said:

Where’s Mike Didka

fuck....i'd take nick skorich if he is still alive.....that's how fucking bad kitchens is......he lost the game yesterday with his wonderful clock mgmt again.....pos coach......oh well....typical for this franchise....

[The Gipper]

23 minutes ago, browns52 said:

fuck....i'd take nick skorich if he is still alive.....that's how fucking bad kitchens is......he lost the game yesterday with his wonderful clock mgmt again.....pos coach......oh well....typical for this franchise....

Sam? Marty?  Both with us.

[browns52]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

Sam? Marty?  Both with us.

i guess that means nick is no longer with us.....sorry to hear that if it is true....marty with one of the top qb's in the league today....ala mahomes...jackson...watson...wentz...no more bernie types even though i liked bernie...he just did not cut it with his mobility...don't want that anymore...sam...nope...too much of a gambler...he blew the playoff game against the raiders in 80....i liked him though....at least he made the game exciting..

[browns52]

On 12/5/2019 at 8:22 AM, Flugel said:

Well said Dutch!  

Sorry for the length here but I can't hold some of this stuff hostage.   I don't know if I'm right or wrong; but I get the sense the main reason Dorsey wanted Freddie is because Dorsey wants to remain in total control of this team rather than getting the "yeah but" from a Head Coach with prior experience.  For example, "Way to close the year strong Gregg!  Now don't let the door hit you in the asss on the way out!"  Some parting shots followed from our OL Coach that said QB Coach Zampese was the guy that did a lot of the work/new play designs Freddie got credit for.  After watching the play calling and Baker's performance decline significantly for much of 2019 - that makes a lot of sense today. For a place that needs continuity and foundation - that sure got sledgehammered. 

We have a very inexperienced/undisciplined CB in Greedy that starts over Terrence Mitchell because he earned it?  Or, was he a 2nd round pick (our 1st pick) Dorsey felt like he stole that was going to start regardless of how much better a guy like Mitchell has been here when healthy?   Greg Pruitt was asked on the radio what he felt was the problem with our secondary.  He said from his standpoint, our Corners stood a much better chance of intercepting those passes/punts with hang-time downfield if they didn't have their backs to the ball.  You can't intercept/bat what you can't see just like you can't tackle what you can't see if you're head is down.  Greedy got dinged, in came Mitchell and he intercepted a pass in Pittsburgh territory. 

What has me thinking this way is I remembered our DC/Interim HC (GW) last year saying "I might not be able to cut him; but I can make sure he does what we ask of him."  I gotta think when he had his HC interview with Dorsey - he prolly said he wanted a say in the personnel.  That had to go over like the following answer to the question where do you see yourself in 5 years?  "Let's put it this way - you'll be fetching my coffee."  I don't know if Gregg Williams would have been the answer here; but I think he would have handled promoting someone he groomed on his staff to take over the DC position and call the defenses.  We've had multiple times this year  where Freddie was more worried about calling his next play on offense at the expense of challenging a call that should be challenged.  That got a little better recently. 

All this said, if Dorsey was building a foundation and continuity - we shouldn't have almost as much turnover as the White House.  When it starts getting that bad, maybe it's time to look at who's doing the hiring and what the criteria behind it is.  Yeah, he got Baker right.  That said, do we still see a confident QB that makes his line look better in pass pro?  Baker has his 3rd OC (Haley, Freddie, Monken) in less than 2 full seasons.  He's on his 2nd QB Coach and this year I saw Baker trying to throw the ball late from a backward hop while he's had a lot of his passes sail high and/or out of bounds on guys that are open.  Mechanics?  Film eval?  Correct this stuff already.  And what's going on with Higgins this year?  This guy had great chem with Baker last year when we looked to him in key situations at times.

Last but not least, I sense something big we don't know about is going on behind the scenes that we'll hear about within the next month  The same old story with veterans not wanting to be here any more to the extent they aren't going to risk injury especially in Cleveland from here on out is unfolding.  This year we've had more mysterious injuries coming up during the week of practice sidelining guys on game day than  I can recall.  Maybe I'm just noticing it more as higher expectations got punted into Lake Erie.  We've had guys disciplined, benched and inactive.  I've had a bad vibe about Randall all season long and then he misses practice last week. Yes, he's a talented individual. But individuals don't win games especially when they place "I before team" and take such a blatant cheap shot that they are thrown out of the game.  It doesn't end there, the week of the rematch vrs that thinks he's dirty - conveniently does something during the week that he knows will have consequences (like missing a game missing an important piece of preparation without an excuse/heads up ahead).  This is only hearsay but from a consistently good source to me in recent years.  One of the weeks Randall missed a game in concussion protocol - he showed up to practice with bruises and scraps all over his face after a night out at the bars. Sound like a team guy based on what this team pays him?  When GB took the very first trade offer for exchange value for their former 1st round pick - did anyone in our FO research why (especially former GB FO/Scouting employees like Highsmith and Wolf)? In 2018, Randall played through injury and he was willing to play corner when injuries had us needing him to do so. During the offseason, he endorsed Dorsey as a genius.  That said, 2019 is his contract year (so there's an agent attached at the ear lobe); and it sure looks like he wants to get out of here without getting hurt on the gridiron.  Rumor has it he took all the Cleveland Browns logos/pictures/colors off his Twitter/online dwelling; which is what many malcontent players do in the NFL today.  Now that he's going to play again this week - do we get a motivated guy or a sandbagger?  

What happens when a lot of Dorsey's solutions don't work?  We have the foundation and continuity of another Poseiden Adventure on Lake Erie.  Is Freddie just a symptom of a bigger problem?

greedy williams....overrated.....ward....overrated....would have taken peppers over both those guys at this point...

[browns52]

19 hours ago, The Gipper said:

We have such terrible coaching on both sides of the ball. Wilkes is terrible Freddie is terrible I guess Monk and is terrible too if he has anything to do with

gip....you are one hundred percent correctomundo......we in big trouble....obj not happy....landry not happy....i even saw the big fat nose tackle pissed off on the sidelines yesterday....he was yelling at a coach.....and then there is baker....hey, at least he has a backup plan if he does not make it in football....he can be an insurance agent for progressive...hahahahahaaaaaa

[hoorta]

3 hours ago, browns52 said:

greedy williams....overrated.....ward....overrated....would have taken peppers over both those guys at this point...

Grass is always greener on the other side huh?   You mean they guy who's on the Giants IR?  

3 hours ago, browns52 said:

gip....you are one hundred percent correctomundo......we in big trouble....obj not happy....landry not happy....i even saw the big fat nose tackle pissed off on the sidelines yesterday....he was yelling at a coach.....and then there is baker....hey, at least he has a backup plan if he does not make it in football....he can be an insurance agent for progressive...hahahahahaaaaaa

That I will grant you- the above is the end of Freddie. When players start visibly bitching to the coach during a game, said coach is done. 

You will get little argument there's something wrong with Baker. He's been consistently high with his throws this year. I hope a change in coaching can fix the problems we're seeing. 

[Flugel]

15 hours ago, hoorta said:

Grass is always greener on the other side huh?   You mean they guy who's on the Giants IR?  

That I will grant you- the above is the end of Freddie. When players start visibly bitching to the coach during a game, said coach is done. 

You will get little argument there's something wrong with Baker. He's been consistently high with his throws this year. I hope a change in coaching can fix the problems we're seeing. 

The change in QB coach sure DID change Baker from extremely promising to uh-oh.  Mechanics of throwing off a backward hop, the high throws are just 2 of many symptoms.   He went from getting rid of the ball quickly enough to make his Oline look efficient in pass pro - to holding onto it way too long casing penalties, fumbles, unnecessary sacks, etc.  This year, he often chose to throw off target on the run out of the pocket in lieu of taking the 5-10 yard gimme on potential runs to the sidelines/slides.

Am I missing something on what this new QB Coach accomplished as a player or coach that made him right for a 2nd year QB?

Not only that, Baker is on his 3rd OC in less than 2 fulls seasons: (Haley, Larry the Cable Guy, and OC from Tampa that wasn't trusted to call plays there either).   

 

[browns52]

On 12/5/2019 at 12:57 PM, mjp28 said:

Interesting analogy the Poseiden on Lake Erie and Cleveland sports in particular the 21st century Cleveland Browns.

And yet the Cleveland Indians have found relative stability and playoff success in the same period and earlier with ownership, management and the team operations in a smaller market team.

It's like the BROWNS just can't get any of the elements right in doing this thing right.  Even the Cavaliers had their moment in the sun but that was largely LeBron.

SO why can't one do it at all and the other have an ongoing playoff attitude?  (Terry Franconia is a big piece of that ongoing puzzle.)

 things are going to get interesting during the offseason...i think it is clear that freddie will be gone....but beckham...i don't know...bad feeling about him...he wants to win, but i think he now sees what the browns are all about....and that is failure....what a shame....

[Flugel]

On 12/23/2019 at 11:16 AM, browns52 said:

greedy williams....overrated.....ward....overrated....would have taken peppers over both those guys at this point...

Agreed about Greed.  That said, Greedy was only overrated by THIS team (acting like we Jed Clampetted oil in round 2 with his selection).  He's lazy.  Also, his 2 divorced brain cells have a way of making us forget what 4.3 speed can do for us out there. 

I'm going to disagree about Ward at least to the extent I've seen some good things the right coaches can work with. Last year he won the Rat game blocking the FG and generally improving our back-end coverage.  If there's a knock on him it's his durability and bad habits he's learning under this DC/staff.  Denver chose the Bradley Chubb that many wanted in his draft slot; and he's been on IR all of this year while his team had a horrible year in his rookie season. 

[7moses7]

CB’s get exposed when you can’t rush the passer

[hoorta]

2 hours ago, 7moses7 said:

CB’s get exposed when you can’t rush the passer

Early in the year even with the DL healthy and with Garrett, the pass rush was less than stellar.  

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, hoorta said:

Early in the year even with the DL healthy and with Garrett, the pass rush was less than stellar.  

Vernon....meh

[MDDawg]

Haven't seen anyone post this but on this week's Orange and Brown podcast report one of the great mysteries of the offseason was explained. Remember when everyone was screaming about Beckham missing OTA's? Well looks like he made the right decision because THE OFFENSIVE SCHEME wasn't ready and all the players were doing was lounging around or  fitness training etc. In (ahem) well coached teams, the Offense is installed before the OTA and the players are initially exposed to it. No wonder the offense still can't line up properly and Beckham and Mayfield are often in different area codes. Link below to podcast

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/12/what-should-gm-john-dorsey-do-now-that-the-browns-are-eliminated-from-postseason-contention-orange-and-brown-talk-podcast.html

[jiggins7919]

On 12/25/2019 at 2:47 PM, The Gipper said:

Vernon....meh

I'm kind of "meh" about Vernon as well, but now that he's been out for so long, it's very easy to see the difference.  Vernon was a pro at locking down his side of the field and forcing QB's to at least MOVE off their spot.  With him out (and Garrett, obviously) we can't even get pressure with blitzes.  Vernon isn't splashy, but I'll take him.  In fact, our DL is the only unit on defense I actually LIKE when everyone is healthy.  If Greedy can continue to get better and really take a leap, I'll like our DBs too (we just really need Terrence Mitchell back for depth, make him the highest paid backup DB, I don't care).  

If we let Schobert go, then we'll be in a world of hurt at linebacker.  I'm not a Mack Wilson fan, although I do have to cut him slack for being a rookie.  

Has Freddy been able to explain what happened with Higgins and Njoku?  God this guy just seems to make every wrong move.

[The Gipper]

5 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

I'm kind of "meh" about Vernon as well, but now that he's been out for so long, it's very easy to see the difference.  Vernon was a pro at locking down his side of the field and forcing QB's to at least MOVE off their spot.  With him out (and Garrett, obviously) we can't even get pressure with blitzes.  Vernon isn't splashy, but I'll take him.  In fact, our DL is the only unit on defense I actually LIKE when everyone is healthy.  If Greedy can continue to get better and really take a leap, I'll like our DBs too (we just really need Terrence Mitchell back for depth, make him the highest paid backup DB, I don't care).  

If we let Schobert go, then we'll be in a world of hurt at linebacker.  I'm not a Mack Wilson fan, although I do have to cut him slack for being a rookie.  

Has Freddy been able to explain what happened with Higgins and Njoku?  God this guy just seems to make every wrong move.

Yea,  my "meh" about Vernon is more about the fact that he can never get on the field.....not so much about how he performs when on there.  Though, I guess we do have to ask....does he ever put any pressure on the QB.....even in the limited playing time he has had?  Here are his stats for the year:

2019 Games

 

 

								Tackles					Fumbles						Off. Snaps		Def. Snaps		ST Snaps
Date	Week	Tm		Opp	Result	GS	Sk	Solo	Ast	Comb	TFL	QBHits	Fmb	FL	FF	FR	Yds	TD	Num	Pct	Num	Pct	Num	Pct
2019-09-08	1	CLE		TEN	L 13-43	*													0	0%	54	92%	6	19%
2019-09-16	2	CLE	@	NYJ	W 23-3	*	0.0	1	0	1	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0%	49	72%	1	4%
2019-09-22	3	CLE		LAR	L 13-20	*	0.0	2	2	4	0	1	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0%	60	94%	5	21%
2019-09-29	4	CLE	@	BAL	W 40-25	*	1.0	2	0	2	1	2	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0%	47	68%	3	11%
2019-10-07	5	CLE	@	SFO	L 3-31	*	0.0	2	0	2	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0%	54	72%	7	24%
2019-10-13	6	CLE		SEA	L 28-32	*	0.0	4	0	4	0	1	0	0	1	0	0	0	0	0%	73	90%	7	27%
2019-10-27	8	CLE	@	NWE	L 13-27	*	1.0	6	0	6	2	2	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0%	69	100%	7	24%
2019-11-03	9	CLE	@	DEN	L 19-24	*	1.0	2	0	2	1	2	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0%	45	90%	4	15%
2019-12-01	13	CLE	@	PIT	L 13-20	*	0.0	1	0	1	0	1	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0%	10	18%	0	0%

 

It surprises me that it says he has played in 9 games.

[Icecube]

On 12/5/2019 at 8:22 AM, Flugel said:

Well said Dutch!  

What happens when a lot of Dorsey's solutions don't work?  We have the foundation and continuity of another Poseiden Adventure on Lake Erie.  Is Freddie just a symptom of a bigger problem?

I think it's both: Freddie IS part of the problem AND a symptom of the larger problem. So now it's a catch 22: You'd love to end the HC turnover but FK won't be successful, so now what?

[Flugel]

On 12/27/2019 at 12:23 PM, Icecube said:

I think it's both: Freddie IS part of the problem AND a symptom of the larger problem. So now it's a catch 22: You'd love to end the HC turnover but FK won't be successful, so now what?

More specifically, I'd love to end the hiring criteria that has yet to work here.  BUT, we have another control freak in charge of that criteria so do we attack the symptom or the disease or both?    When I had strept throat, I treated the symptoms and killed the bacteria causing the illness with 10-14 days of prescribed anti-biotics.

At first, I thought Dorsey was walking on water.  As time went on, I'm seeing a guy that's trying to be a remote control Head Coach right down to the decisions of starting HIS crappy Cornerback of choice Greedy Williams.  He doesn't suck - he swallows!  All that 4.3 speed gets erased with a hollow inner chest and 2 brain cells that aren't on speaking terms.  BUT Dorsey thinks he had an epic round 2 steal much like he thought that with Austin Corbett leading to the extent he thought it would be okay to get rid of Zeitler.  Only this time, Greedy is playing ahead of Terrence Mitchell.  As soon as Greedy left the rematch vrs Pittsburgh with an injury - Mitchell took his spot and did something Greedy remained incapable of.  He SAW the football in pass coverage so he could intercept it in Pittsburgh territory.  But as Gregg Williams said early on LAST YEAR "I may not be able to cut a player but I can see to it he does what I ask of him."   I didn't pay very much thought to that point when he made it last year until I'm seeing a bunch of 1 trick ponies trying to play TE for us.  1 guy can only block on the rare occasions he keeps his head up long enough to do so.  Another guy can only catch if the QB hits him in stride without any defenders around. Another guy can't do either but he DID PLAY FOR THE KC CHIEFS so the Dorsey ego gets his way and we're waiting on Freddie to turn Edward Scissorhands into Gronk.And good luck with that one.  And our 1st round TE?  He's more interested in showing off his abs than justifying the reason our FO before Dorsey believed in him. If Dorsey drafted him - he would have started and played the entire time we had the ball whether he was trying in practice or not.

And, when I'm reading that this FO doesn't see any reason to keep Joe Schobert - we're creating the same unnecessary vacancy we did with Zeitler.  And why?  Dorsey didn't draft him so he perceives no reward for ego by sticking with experienced vets coming off the best years of their careers.  Not only that, but these productive vets are actually guys that were HAPPY to be here when they were giving us these kind of seasons.  BUT, Dorsey would rather see the Schobert Cleveland invested time and training into to go play elsewhere because he drafted TickyTaki and Mack for the 2 LBer scheme that makes nobody's life easy at LBer?  

Worst of all regarding continuity, was decimating the 2018 staff to go with the inexperienced Head Coach that will say "Yes Sir" enough to make Dorsey in charge of who sits and who starts and who stay and who sprays... In essence, Dorsey is the HC while Freddie is just a Glorified OC equipped with an OC (Monk) that wasn't trusted to call his own plays in Tampa any more than he has been in Cleveland. The change in QB Coach from Zampese to Lindley has had a profound/negative impact on Baker's mechanics, performance and pre-snap keys lost in transition.  The new OL Coach had some early difficulties but I like what he has done with the newcomer at RG, which has helped so I'm on wait and see a littlemore mode with him for now.  On Defense, the guy who we traded Zeitler for is playing on a pogo stick while I'm not sure what happened to Chad Thomas in the absence of Garrett.  Does he have a pimple on his asss that needs to be popped?  It's usually a good idea to have good open field tacklers playing in the secondary. Carrie is atrocious at tackling as is Greedy (hence the countless pre-draft reports mentioning this with Greedy).  And WTF is the fascination our FO has with all the guys that played for the Miami Hurricanes?   They're a decade or 2 behind the trend of when they were gotta have prospects; and their Bowl Game loss to Nobody Tech a couple days ago reminds us of this. If that Miami pipeline doesn't

If Dorsey was effectively building, the openings and turnover wouldn't be increasing. They'd be decreasing. Before we get to the players we need a new HC, new OC, new QB Coach, new secondary Coach, new DC; and we might want to hire Nurse Ratchid! Looks to me like we need both Safety positions, both Tackle positions, TEs with more than 1 skill, 3rd Corner, depth at Guard, depth at WR, depth at DE (especially considering how long Goodell will want to hold Cleveland hostage playing God with length of Garrett's suspension), DT.  While LBer is already a need - the situation could get even worse if they let Schobert go.  Then again, I watched Greedy keep his starting position playing without any heart over a guy like Mitchell that plays with heart and urgency so why should Schobert be important to our future if Dorsey didn't draft him. FWIW, KC is finally looking like they also have a defense that belongs in the playoffs 2 years removed from Dorsey.  Coincidence?   As far as Highsmith and Wolfe are concerned - isn't it looking like Green Bay's Defense has been improving in their absence too?  Coincidence?

I overrated the crap out of Dorsey and the 2 big Miami Hurricane Fans in our FO. While they looked to get Baker right with our 1st pick of the draft - they came really close to getting him killed in the opener while his performance had to count on Dumb and Dumber the last 15 games.

Sorry the length of that blowhard. I hope I'm wrong but my gi tract has been pretty accurate unfortunately...

[Icecube]

On 12/25/2019 at 7:45 AM, Flugel said:

Agreed about Greed.  That said, Greedy was only overrated by THIS team (acting like we Jed Clampetted oil in round 2 with his selection).  He's lazy.  Also, his 2 divorced brain cells have a way of making us forget what 4.3 speed can do for us out there. 

I'm going to disagree about Ward at least to the extent I've seen some good things the right coaches can work with. Last year he won the Rat game blocking the FG and generally improving our back-end coverage.  If there's a knock on him it's his durability and bad habits he's learning under this DC/staff.  Denver chose the Bradley Chubb that many wanted in his draft slot; and he's been on IR all of this year while his team had a horrible year in his rookie season. 

😂 Ward looked like a lock down CB in the making last year. This season, it's like the DBs forgot how to play, never looking back to the ball, just grab, grab, grab.