Freddie fired

[Ibleedbrown]

10 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Not pinning anything on anything, h... just looking at the team needs.

But were I, then I could make a strong case about the OL. Once we had to pass our OL really wasn't doing the job for Baker. D-side was more about the missing DL pieces than LB.

The defense, particularly the line, looked gassed as the game wore on. I think l mentally noted that before the first half was even over. 

The Oline was terrorized much like they were the first game by Watt and company, but we just didn’t get enough magical Baker plays to pull this one out. 

[Tour2ma]

4 hours ago, browns52 said:

the coach sucks...the opportunity came with that int in the 4th qtr....we had the fucking ball at their 30....and good  hillbilly kitchens throws three times...we lost yardage and had to punt...are you fucking kidding me...you have chubb and hunt...and you throw 3 usless passes....and you think this will change in 2020 if these morons are still around...eh good luck with that....

Did you look at our last 6 runs? I have... 3,5,1,1,2 and 3 yards. Tretter was playing on one leg and couldn't drive block or get to the 2nd level.

Also the possession at their 30 of which you write came one play after we'd moved the ball 61 yards in 7 plays... all passes.

 

Put those two things together and the air looks like the better route... if you are trying to win the game.

[Duckpins]

The only question is what are they going to get for OBJ, a 3rd round pick and a player?  And who replaces Fat Dumb Freddie?  After the turnover you can't get less than a field goal attempt.  Run 2 times with Hunt or Chubb.  See how close you get to the 20.  But Baker on 3rd and long will try to make something happen and get sacked.   Bet on it.  

[hoorta]

3 minutes ago, Duckpins said:

The only question is what are they going to get for OBJ, a 3rd round pick and a player?  And who replaces Fat Dumb Freddie?  After the turnover you can't get less than a field goal attempt.  Run 2 times with Hunt or Chubb.  See how close you get to the 20.  But Baker on 3rd and long will try to make something happen and get sacked.   Bet on it.  

I checked, and the Browns do have an out on OBJ's contract next year. I don't understand why many on the Board are so anxious to dump him. Replace him with WHO? the triple H's? Harris, Hilliard, HIggins? A third round pick? Get real. Even with the fall off in production, OBJ is in the top 25 in the league- meaning he's still a legit #1 WR in my book. 

Freddie I'm not so sure about. He needs to go 3-1 the rest of the way out to be on solid footing, and even that might not do it. Losing to the Bengals at home Sunday could be the end. 

[Duckpins]

OBJ is not the problem.  It is the dynamic he sets up with Baker hunting for him instead of the open man like last year.

[hoorta]

4 minutes ago, Duckpins said:

OBJ is not the problem.  It is the dynamic he sets up with Baker hunting for him instead of the open man like last year.

Maybe. Him getting double covered has allowed Landry to have a career year. I rarely see Baker trying to force the ball to him anymore when he's double covered. 

[Icecube]

On 10/27/2019 at 8:54 PM, Orion said:

Now that the schedule gets somewhat easier, lets fire the coach because we lost to the really good teams.

The Steelers are a "really good team?" Denver? 

[7moses7]

2 hours ago, hoorta said:

I checked, and the Browns do have an out on OBJ's contract next year. I don't understand why many on the Board are so anxious to dump him. Replace him with WHO? the triple H's? Harris, Hilliard, HIggins? A third round pick? Get real. Even with the fall off in production, OBJ is in the top 25 in the league- meaning he's still a legit #1 WR in my book. 

Freddie I'm not so sure about. He needs to go 3-1 the rest of the way out to be on solid footing, and even that might not do it. Losing to the Bengals at home Sunday could be the end. 

Ha ha ha ha lol lol OBJ is not a top 25 WR , he isn’t a #1 on this team he plain and simply hasn’t produced like a#1 WR . Catching balls with one hand in pre game and practice isn’t producing results. All show and no go !!!!!

[Orion]

2 hours ago, Icecube said:

The Steelers are a "really good team?" Denver? 

You're aware that you are quoting something that was said on October 27th...right?

What I would say NOW would be, "We've lost to teams with good defensive fronts".    So what does that tell us?   It tells us that we have a poor OFFENSIVE front.  Baker has NOT shown to play well when he lacks confidence in his OL.  MOST of our OL needs to be upgraded.  Now, it's not that they fuck up on every single play against good D's.....but hey, how confident would YOU be with Robinson, Kush & Hubbard pass protecting for you?

 

[PoeticG]

If you ship OBJ you might as well send Landry too, they are a packaged deal now... Landry will revolt if they give up OBJ.

[PoeticG]

My issues are:

1) How do you leave your best safety at home with the season on the line?

2) How do you leave your best TE out of the game when he's been eligible for 2 weeks and supposedly healthy?

3) How do you keep a gimpy Vernon in the game, he had a negative impact?

4) How do you keep a gimpy Center in the game, he had a negative impact?

5) How do you neglect to protect your QB in a game where the opposition is clearly trying to hurt him? 

Hue do you think you are Freddy? 

[Dutch Oven]

 

1 minute ago, PoeticG said:

My issues are:

1) How do you leave your best safety at home with the season on the line?

2) How do you leave your best TE out of the game when he's been eligible for 2 weeks and supposedly healthy?

3) How do you keep a gimpy Vernon in the game, he had a negative impact?

4) How do you keep a gimpy Center in the game, he had a negative impact?

5) How do you neglect to protect your QB in a game where the opposition is clearly trying to hurt him? 

Hue do you think you are Freddy? 

1. Because your best safety apparently is a head case, who might have decided in the biggest week of the season to not bother to show up to practice. Like literally skip practice. 

2. Fair question. This is as puzzling as the same scenario that played out earlier in the season with Higgins. (Which seems like was some untold discipline issue too?)

3. He played 12 plays. 

4. Tretter played on one leg for half of the season last year. 

5. This might be better asked to John Dorsey, who did a shitty job on the OLine last offseason. 

[Icecube]

2 hours ago, Orion said:

You're aware that you are quoting something that was said on October 27th...right?

What I would say NOW would be, "We've lost to teams with good defensive fronts".    So what does that tell us?   It tells us that we have a poor OFFENSIVE front.  Baker has NOT shown to play well when he lacks confidence in his OL.  MOST of our OL needs to be upgraded.  Now, it's not that they fuck up on every single play against good D's.....but hey, how confident would YOU be with Robinson, Kush & Hubbard pass protecting for you?

 

All accurate. Upgrade on OL vital. Probably 2 in the first 4 rounds. And a free agent or 2. Hubbard is bad. 

[PoeticG]

One thing that really stood out to me against Pittsburgh yesterday... Freddy has got to get the plays in FASTER! We've got to get out of the huddle and to the line faster. We've got to line up faster, get the defense set in position and allow Baker time to identify and make adjustments. This has to be faster. There were times when the play clock was about to hit zero and the defense was literally running at the line to hit it right on the snap because they knew that we HAD to snap. We've got to be better. 

[gumby73]

Fresh off the presses of the steamy Plain Dealer 💩... https://cleveland.com/browns/2019/12/can-we-have-a-disciplined-discussion-about-fixing-the-browns-before-jumping-right-to-fire-freddie.html 

 Remember Fred's largest endorser to Haslem/Dorsey for Fred getting job was?... Bill Parcell's...whom still has the label as team consultant...

1) I agree this offensive talent, may only need a OL upgrade ala Dallas/Colts Draft next season... but, With a complete offensive overhaul, starting with Monken getting out of Freddie's ears

--OR--

2) Is Fred's only hope?   To turn over the offensive control keys? like a guy Hue know... 2 Bengals. a Zona & a Ravens game left on schedule could not come at a better time 

[TexasAg1969]

16 hours ago, hoorta said:

Losing to the Bengals at home Sunday could be the end. 

yep

[OldBrownsFan]

2 hours ago, gumby73 said:

Fresh off the presses of the steamy Plain Dealer 💩... https://cleveland.com/browns/2019/12/can-we-have-a-disciplined-discussion-about-fixing-the-browns-before-jumping-right-to-fire-freddie.html 

 Remember Fred's largest endorser to Haslem/Dorsey for Fred getting job was?... Bill Parcell's...whom still has the label as team consultant...

1) I agree this offensive talent, may only need a OL upgrade ala Dallas/Colts Draft next season... but, With a complete offensive overhaul, starting with Monken getting out of Freddie's ears

--OR--

2) Is Fred's only hope?   To turn over the offensive control keys? like a guy Hue know... 2 Bengals. a Zona & a Ravens game left on schedule could not come at a better time 

Good article. Although I am upset and disappointed the Browns who should have made the play offs this year but won 't because of lack of discipline, mistakes and missed opportunities the article makes sense as to why firing Kitchens right now is likely not the answer.

[Tour2ma]

19 hours ago, hoorta said:

(OBJ) getting double covered has allowed Landry to have a career year.

Yup... proving he's not only our team's #1 WR, but one of the more feared #1's in the league.

 

Fun fact... despite drawing coverage from opponents' best CB plus a Safety shading towards him, OBJ has over 800 receiving yards and the same YPR average (14.1) as Landry.

 

[browns52]

On 12/2/2019 at 2:04 PM, Tour2ma said:

Did you look at our last 6 runs? I have... 3,5,1,1,2 and 3 yards. Tretter was playing on one leg and couldn't drive block or get to the 2nd level.

Also the possession at their 30 of which you write came one play after we'd moved the ball 61 yards in 7 plays... all passes.

 

Put those two things together and the air looks like the better route... if you are trying to win the game.

you still have to try...i understand the numbers you put up....but hell, i know we would have at least got closer for a fg worse case scenerio and give us some mo..and  with 5 sacks on mayfield and constant pressure...i'd go run....which when you look back, running would have been no worse than going backwards trying to pass...

[browns52]

Just now, browns52 said:

you still have to try...i understand the numbers you put up....but hell, i know we would have at least got closer for a fg worse case scenerio and give us some mo..and  with 5 sacks on mayfield and constant pressure...i'd go run....which when you look back, running would have been no worse than going backwards trying to pass...

forgot to add...the first three numbers you put up was 3 5 and 1...hell if we got that it would have been 4th and 1....which at least we could have gone for it at their 21 yd line....

[browns52]

4 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Yup... proving he's not only our team's #1 WR, but one of the more feared #1's in the league.

 

Fun fact... despite drawing coverage from opponents' best CB plus a Safety shading towards him, OBJ has over 800 receiving yards and the same YPR average (14.1) as Landry.

 

yeah, but you don't understand obj...he want to be the man...did you not see him screaming at one of our hc's at the end of the game....gee, i wonder what that was about....he ain't and guess what...dat ain't the first time i saw him yelping and bitching about something....so don't count on landry being this good in the near future, because obj will be looking for another team....

[browns52]

19 hours ago, Orion said:

You're aware that you are quoting something that was said on October 27th...right?

What I would say NOW would be, "We've lost to teams with good defensive fronts".    So what does that tell us?   It tells us that we have a poor OFFENSIVE front.  Baker has NOT shown to play well when he lacks confidence in his OL.  MOST of our OL needs to be upgraded.  Now, it's not that they fuck up on every single play against good D's.....but hey, how confident would YOU be with Robinson, Kush & Hubbard pass protecting for you?

 

not very.....both lines are bad...the dline is even worse....for how bad the bengals are, they could win this game sunday...especially with carrot top back at the helm...he will get about 30 seconds in the pocket on about every pass attempt...and they have good enough receivers to win this game....yuck....that would really be disgusting...a 1 win team kicking our ass.....

[bjh2130]

1 hour ago, browns52 said:

not very.....both lines are bad...the dline is even worse....for how bad the bengals are, they could win this game sunday...especially with carrot top back at the helm...he will get about 30 seconds in the pocket on about every pass attempt...and they have good enough receivers to win this game....yuck....that would really be disgusting...a 1 win team kicking our ass.....

And when the browns win I won't expect to see you on here. Seems you always pop up after the losses.

[Icecube]

15 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

yep

They won't. 

[TexasAg1969]

8 hours ago, Icecube said:

They won't. 

They shouldn't may be more accurate.

[Unsympathetic]

On 11/11/2019 at 11:13 AM, Ibleedbrown said:

was anyone surprised Kitchens elected NOT to ice the kicker?

I didn't care.. "icing" the kicker has always been a waste of time -- an NFL kicker doesn't miss significantly more the second attempt than the first.

For all the times you may quote that it worked.. I guarantee I've watched them miss the first and make the second just as many times.

[Tour2ma]

Yup... pretty much a wash. Some recent data says it even increases the odds of the kick being good.

On 12/3/2019 at 3:26 PM, browns52 said:

yeah, but you don't understand obj...he want to be the man...did you not see him screaming at one of our hc's at the end of the game....gee, i wonder what that was about....he ain't and guess what...dat ain't the first time i saw him yelping and bitching about something....so don't count on landry being this good in the near future, because obj will be looking for another team....

Oh I get OBJ being the Alpha WR... it's part of the deal. And while I missed seeing him yelling Sunday, I'm only surprised in that it took this long.

OBJ can't "look". He's under contract thru 2023.

11 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

They shouldn't may be more accurate.

I got a bad feelin' 'bout this one...

[TexasAg1969]

8 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

I got a bad feelin' 'bout this one...

Well at least AJ Green was ruled out once again. He's been a wasted FFL pick for me since he was only supposed to miss the first two games. He has not played one game all season.

But the Red Rifleman is back in the saddle so anything can happen.

[gumby73]

On 12/3/2019 at 7:29 AM, gumby73 said:

Fresh off the presses of the steamy Plain Dealer 💩... https://cleveland.com/browns/2019/12/can-we-have-a-disciplined-discussion-about-fixing-the-browns-before-jumping-right-to-fire-freddie.html 

 Remember Fred's largest endorser to Haslem/Dorsey for Fred getting job was?... Bill Parcell's...whom still has the label as team consultant...

Well, When it rains, it pours? So now let's go after John Dorsey...  https://clutchpoints.com/john-dorsey-deserves-blame-for-browns-disappointing-season/ 

"But you can't simultaneously be rebuilding & making moves to win immediately" <<<(have you seen the way this team has drafted the past 5 years before JD?)   

[Orion]

1 hour ago, gumby73 said:

(have you seen the way this team has drafted the past 5 years before JD?) 

John has done a very good job!  Has he made some blunders?  Yes, which is proof positive that he's a human being.