Ratbirds @ Browns Official Gameday thread

[Tour2ma]

37 minutes ago, bjh2130 said:

Don't just listen to Romo and nantz. If you think about it going for two there makes sense.  You need a two point conversion regardless.  If you don't get it on either attempt it means you need an extra possession. When would you rather have that information?  With 8 minutes left so you can press a little bit more and go no huddle to make sure your have plenty of time for that 3rd possession or after the hypothetical second td where you weren't in a big rush because you don't want the opposing team to have much time let's say less than 2 minutes.  You are not more likely to get it on the 2nd hypothetical td than the first.  Literally it's the same odds either way.  The only difference is one way (going for it after 1st) you get info sooner and the sooner you know what you need there better off you are. 

Isn't that knowledge also useful to the opponent?

Seems to me that they'd be more conservative if up 8 rather than up 7... and that's exactly what you'd want.

 

Of course being up 9 they'd be more conservative yet...

[bjh2130]

30 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Isn't that knowledge also useful to the opponent?

Seems to me that they'd be more conservative if up 8 rather than up 7... and that's exactly what you'd want.

 

Of course being up 9 they'd be more conservative yet...

Yeah it is useful to the opponent also. I don't think they'd be any more conservative 7 vs 8 points up but definitely more so up 9. I guess I'm just of the ilk I want as much information possible as soon as possible. To me it's like when a team knows they need two scores and will kick a field goal on an earlier down when they're down two scores with less than a minute to play because of that information. Or even a 4th and 7 plus in field goal range.  You go ahead and kick it and go for your td later.

538 summed up my opinion on it nicely

"When down 9 points late-ish, there’s a solid case that you should go for 2, because being down 8, you would have to go for 2 to draw even eventually anyway, and it’s better to know whether you converted your attempt earlier so you can make tactical adjustments."

[calfoxwc]

Just some of my dumb opinions:

If Freddie refuses to give up all playcalling, he should go. Maybe fire the OC. Seriously, Freddie. No mas.

The 3rd and one with about 2 minutes left in the first half, and he runs wide to the left with a LT that still holds and still moves/loses the snap count, and can't handle the blocking on that play. And again, they seemed to know what the play was.

The Browns need safety help. As in, two new starters.

The offensive line folded, and the defense gave up. The ratbuzzards seemed to have attacked the safeties and stayed away from Wilson and Schobert as much as possible. That's just a guess on my part.

After the first quarter, I thought we'd see more throws to Hunt and Chubb out of the backfield. Apparently, the oline can't block long enough to run those plays....

 

[hoorta]

59 minutes ago, browns52 said:

any body going to the bengals game next week....phhhhhweeeeee.....heh heh heh.....what a clusterfuck of a team.....you can watch mixon rush for around 200 yds...

Yeah, I'm going with one of my college pals and his daughters. Only an hour to Paul Brown from my house- a far shorter drive than uup to Cleveland. And looking forward to a great tailgate with the Cinci Browns Backsers. 

47 minutes ago, browns52 said:

half time...it was over before it started.....this garbage pit.....fucking pour some gas on it and light the match...

Why don't you just start rooting for another team? You're just like those losers who pile on after every loss over on Cleveland.com.  Just not happy unless we not only win, but win big- and then- you'd still have something to bitch about. Baker sucks, Freddie sucks, the defense sucks, suck, suck, suck........

And if the Browns lose to the Bengals in a game that's only going to determine draft position for the Browns (the Bengals have officially won the #1 pick Burrow Bowl) I'm sure you'll be more than delighted that Fred is Dead. 

[hoorta]

PS just checking- and it's almost time to give NIck Chubb props for taking the league rushing title. After today- both Henry and McCaffery ( the only ones with a shot to catch him) will have to out gain Nick by almost 100 yards this coming Sunday to catch him.     

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, SdBacker80 said:

At this point do we need to go 3-5 next season and fire Freddie.

 

just take care of it now 

Don't make the same mistake we did with Jackson.....bring him back, having to fire him halfway,  putting an interim coach in charge.  The bring in someone else for the following year.    Just cut the cord now  (after the next game, that is).

[D Bone]

Just now, hoorta said:

PS just checking- and it's almost time to give NIck Chubb props for taking the league rushing title. After today- both Henry and McCaffery ( the only ones with a shot to catch him) will have to out gain Nick by almost 100 yards this coming Sunday to catch him.     

The NFL's leading rusher and we can't even go 8-8? I wonder what the winning % is for teams with the leading rusher over say the last 20 years? It's gotta be high. 

[hoorta]

2 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Don't make the same mistake we did with Jackson.....bring him back, having to fire him halfway,  putting an interim coach in charge.  The bring in someone else for the following year.    Just cut the cord now  (after the next game, that is).

I don't know Gipper- I suppose you should give Freddie the dignity of finishing out the season- but as far as I"m concerned, Dean Man walking. Black Monday 8 days away....  

[The Gipper]

Just now, hoorta said:

I don't know Gipper- I suppose you should give Freddie the dignity of finishing out the season- but as far as I"m concerned, Dean Man walking. 

No, I said let him finish the season:  "after the next game" I said. 

[hoorta]

1 minute ago, The Gipper said:

No, I said let him finish the season:  "after the next game" I said. 

I know what you said Gip... Some wouldn't even want him to coach another game....  A Bungle loss with a dispirited showing will seal the deal.... 

[bjh2130]

41 minutes ago, jrb12711 said:

Comparing situations in college football and the nfl is apples to oranges.

I can agree to disagree but I wanted to give you an example since you used the momentum example and address this quoted part. 

Comparing talent and some situations even is apple's to oranges but comparing about wanting to know what you need to know to win or tie a game is no matter the level of football. 

My example. Say in today's game after failing instead of our defense folding like a cheap suit we force a 3 and out and get the ball back with about 6 minutes remaining.  We are rushing because we know we need two scores having already attempted our two point conversion. We are facing a 4th down after 3 straight incomplete passes. So around 5:30 seconds left on the clock. We would punt down 8 with 3 timeouts however knowing we need a 2nd score we go for it in this situation. Or we get down to goal to go with 3:30 left (because we're in a hurry up knowing we need 2 scores) and and get a penalty or sack making it 4th and goal from the 17. We kick the field goal and kick away with full complement of timeouts where as if were down 8 we are are running clock being in striking distance not wanting to give them the ball back with much time and get in that situation with less than 2 minutes to go.  We are attempting to pick up 17 for a td and even if we pick it up we call the same 2 point play. You're calling your best two point play regardless of when you attempt it. Unless Baker is more accurate down 2 points than down 9 points the result is the same. 

Basically if i miss the two point conversion i want as much time on the clock as possible for my two possessions.  If i convert it doesn't matter whether i convert on the first or 2nd td with the exception that I could theoretically go for the win on the 2nd td if I converted on the first.

[D Bone]

19 minutes ago, bjh2130 said:

I can agree to disagree but I wanted to give you an example since you used the momentum example and address this quoted part. 

Comparing talent and some situations even is apple's to oranges but comparing about wanting to know what you need to know to win or tie a game is no matter the level of football. 

My example. Say in today's game after failing instead of our defense folding like a cheap suit we force a 3 and out and get the ball back with about 6 minutes remaining.  We are rushing because we know we need two scores having already attempted our two point conversion. We are facing a 4th down after 3 straight incomplete passes. So around 5:30 seconds left on the clock. We would punt down 8 with 3 timeouts however knowing we need a 2nd score we go for it in this situation. Or we get down to goal to go with 3:30 left (because we're in a hurry up knowing we need 2 scores) and and get a penalty or sack making it 4th and goal from the 17. We kick the field goal and kick away with full complement of timeouts where as if were down 8 we are are running clock being in striking distance not wanting to give them the ball back with much time and get in that situation with less than 2 minutes to go.  We are attempting to pick up 17 for a td and even if we pick it up we call the same 2 point play. You're calling your best two point play regardless of when you attempt it. Unless Baker is more accurate down 2 points than down 9 points the result is the same. 

Basically if i miss the two point conversion i want as much time on the clock as possible for my two possessions.  If i convert it doesn't matter whether i convert on the first or 2nd td with the exception that I could theoretically go for the win on the 2nd td if I converted on the first.

I agree with both yours and jrb's views, and can easily side with either of you for all the reasons you have both said. I probably would've kicked it myself, but I had zero issues with the idiot going for 2.

8 more days should be the end of the fat man.............. or else it's the beginning of the end of the 2020 season if it's not.   

[tiamat63]

 

 

at 5:40...   exhibit 'B' why I NEED Wilks to be gone.   Generally you don't want to make things as easy as possible on a young QB that is still working to develop as a passer.

 

First of all, don't get me wrong, it got the 5th man free but as we learned you kind of have to "corral" LJ.    But this is a zero pressure with Chad Thomas "occupying" his blocker and playing a spy.   The issue is all the space we allow on the rotation in a pretty poor attempt to disguise the coverage.    Had this pressure been chipped or late, Lamar would have had an even easier throw and catch to Andrews.     It's just hard for me to stomach how easily we let some of these receivers into the pattern over the course of this season.

 

 

[browns52]

2 hours ago, hoorta said:

Yeah, I'm going with one of my college pals and his daughters. Only an hour to Paul Brown from my house- a far shorter drive than uup to Cleveland. And looking forward to a great tailgate with the Cinci Browns Backsers. 

Why don't you just start rooting for another team? You're just like those losers who pile on after every loss over on Cleveland.com.  Just not happy unless we not only win, but win big- and then- you'd still have something to bitch about. Baker sucks, Freddie sucks, the defense sucks, suck, suck, suck........

And if the Browns lose to the Bengals in a game that's only going to determine draft position for the Browns (the Bengals have officially won the #1 pick Burrow Bowl) I'm sure you'll be more than delighted that Fred is Dead. 

yip ,,,,everything is just fine in cleveland.......they don't suck...my bad....NOT........,..YOU MUST BE RELATED TO HASLEM......ONLY WAY I SEE IT...

[Dutch Oven]

4 minutes ago, browns52 said:

yip ,,,,everything is just fine in cleveland.......they don't suck...my bad....NOT........,..YOU MUST BE RELATED TO HASLEM......ONLY WAY I SEE IT...

Nobody cares how you see anything. 

[Vambo]

 

[The Gipper]

2 hours ago, hoorta said:

I know what you said Gip... Some wouldn't even want him to coach another game....  A Bungle loss with a dispirited showing will seal the deal.... 

What, besides putting him out of his.....and our misery.....would be the argument in letting him go before the last game? 

[Tour2ma]

Random thoughts...

We lost today to a better team... period.

And yet early it was us that controlled the game... took a lead... forced two turnovers (one on downs) and a punt. It was the first meeting's recipe unfolding again... then it wasn't.

Our D did not quit in the 2nd half, they were gassed. For almost a half of football our Practice Squad DL was a match for their All-Pro laden Offense... then it wasn't.

First meeting was a role reversal. It was the Ravens that were missing key folks. Today they were all back... and then some... while it was us missing key people.

 

[Orion]

26 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

For almost a half of football our Practice Squad DL was a match for their All-Pro laden Offense... then it wasn't.

lol  Yup, our Dline wound up being random guys wearing uniforms (and ugly ones at that......one more game for those unis.......then we'll get polka dots or something).

Freddie seems to have a knack of having the last minute or two of the half blow completely up in his face.  (and how Kareem Hunt didn't fumble that ball I'll never know)

[TypicalBrowns50]

kitchens over thinks way too much. It’s hard to win when you have a coach calling the sequences he does. He sucks completely. If he isn’t fired in the off-season, It will officially be a twilight zone episode 

[jiggins7919]

22 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Random thoughts...

We lost today to a better team... period.

And yet early it was us that controlled the game... took a lead... forced two turnovers (one on downs) and a punt. It was the first meeting's recipe unfolding again... then it wasn't.

Our D did not quit in the 2nd half, they were gassed. For almost a half of football our Practice Squad DL was a match for their All-Pro laden Offense... then it wasn't.

First meeting was a role reversal. It was the Ravens that were missing key folks. Today they were all back... and then some... while it was us missing key people.

 

I guess, but the biggest reason we lose so many games isn't always our shitty defense...it's our shitty OFFENSE. We basically have zero big play ability. We literally get NOTHING down the field, and basically haven't all effing year. 

What's worse? Our quarterback is a complete ass clown, and not a very smart one at that. Remember that play Hilliard got hurt? Baker had another receiver running a deeper parallel route that would have easily been enough for the first down. Did Baker make that easy throw? Noooooooooooooooo....he sets someone up to get injured, which is quickly becoming his only specialty. 

Let's not kid ourselves, Baltimore should have been up by a lot more this game. They got a little pass happy for no reason in the first half, but wouldn't you know they fixed that shit at half time. They came out in the 2nd half and marched that shit right down our throats. The truly embarrassing thing is Lamar comes out and not only runs circles around Baker, but makes every throw Baker only WISHES he could make. You know, big 3rd down passes that prevent those pesky punts? 

I'm glad people were booing at half time. I hope Haslam was paying attention because it's not only the players and coaches to blame, John Dorsey holds MORE than his fair share. I'm starting to think that guy couldn't find a set a tits on the internet, and here we are entrusting him to draft another year AND select another coach? Screw that. 

Our team has no magic. Been that way all year. And it really hurts because we all know that the reset button is glowing red on Haslam's desk and he's about to mash it. I just wish he'd pan Dorsey too because that guy pulled one of the greatest con jobs on earth to get his job. I'm sorry to be so negative, but I am so irritated by our failure this season. 

[flyingfooldoug]

In a nutshell, The players were ready for this game. Unfortunately the coaching staff was not. 

[jiggins7919]

5 hours ago, flyingfooldoug said:

In a nutshell, The players were ready for this game. Unfortunately the coaching staff was not. 

I mostly agree with this, but we HAD it until 2:09 remaining in the first half.  Even if we just ran the clock out, which would've been UBER cautious, we could've gone into half with a 6-0 lead against the hottest team in the league.  That would've been extremely safe, but even if we punted the one time, gave up the quick score, we STILL should've gone into half down 7-6 because the Ravens got the ball after halftime!  Ugh!  It just seems like so many of Freddie's decisions simply don't work.  Going for the 2 point conversion, some people are against that decision...but it hit our guy in the damn hands!  Man, it's just a season of nothing working out, and it's hard to believe.

[The Gipper]

22 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

I mostly agree with this, but we HAD it until 2:09 remaining in the first half.  Even if we just ran the clock out, which would've been UBER cautious, we could've gone into half with a 6-0 lead against the hottest team in the league.  That would've been extremely safe, but even if we punted the one time, gave up the quick score, we STILL should've gone into half down 7-6 because the Ravens got the ball after halftime!  Ugh!  It just seems like so many of Freddie's decisions simply don't work.  Going for the 2 point conversion, some people are against that decision...but it hit our guy in the damn hands!  Man, it's just a season of nothing working out, and it's hard to believe.

If anything those last two minutes of the half should have been the death knell  for Freddie.

[Canton Dawg]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

If anything those last two minutes of the half should have been the death knell  for Freddie.

Yep, with the Ratbirds out of time outs there's no excuse in giving up 2 TD's in less than 90 seconds.

 

[Kvoethe]

Watching espn..lol...rex ryan blasting freddie...

[nickers]

16 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

I guess, but the biggest reason we lose so many games isn't always our shitty defense...it's our shitty OFFENSE. We basically have zero big play ability. We literally get NOTHING down the field, and basically haven't all effing year. 

What's worse? Our quarterback is a complete ass clown, and not a very smart one at that. Remember that play Hilliard got hurt? Baker had another receiver running a deeper parallel route that would have easily been enough for the first down. Did Baker make that easy throw? Noooooooooooooooo....he sets someone up to get injured, which is quickly becoming his only specialty. 

Let's not kid ourselves, Baltimore should have been up by a lot more this game. They got a little pass happy for no reason in the first half, but wouldn't you know they fixed that shit at half time. They came out in the 2nd half and marched that shit right down our throats. The truly embarrassing thing is Lamar comes out and not only runs circles around Baker, but makes every throw Baker only WISHES he could make. You know, big 3rd down passes that prevent those pesky punts? 

I'm glad people were booing at half time. I hope Haslam was paying attention because it's not only the players and coaches to blame, John Dorsey holds MORE than his fair share. I'm starting to think that guy couldn't find a set a tits on the internet, and here we are entrusting him to draft another year AND select another coach? Screw that. 

Our team has no magic. Been that way all year. And it really hurts because we all know that the reset button is glowing red on Haslam's desk and he's about to mash it. I just wish he'd pan Dorsey too because that guy pulled one of the greatest con jobs on earth to get his job. I'm sorry to be so negative, but I am so irritated by our failure this season. 

You should turn in your fan badge and jump off a cliff... You seriously can't handle your own fandom...

[jiggins7919]

6 hours ago, nickers said:

You should turn in your fan badge and jump off a cliff... You seriously can't handle your own fandom...

Listen man, you can have your opinion and I'll have mine. I don't go telling people to jump off cliffs or go crying to moderators. But what I will do is express my beliefs of an underperforming franchise that continues to set new standards of futility. I wasn't disrespectful, I didn't personally attack anyone, and I didn't say a damn thing that wasn't true. You don't have to turn in your fan card just because you're not content with management, coaching, or personnel. 

I'm not ok with a team that simply can't score points. That has next to no big play ability. That pens a letter to the fans saying "we've arrived", then promptly gets boat-raced by a mediocre Titans team to lose yet ANOTHER season opener. No, I'm not happy with that. I'm not happy to continuously watch a team that has the heart of a field mouse and the maturity of a bunch of teenagers. 

There are many people who feel the exact way I do, and who can blame them? We aren't good, and we aren't even fun to watch. Jesus, every game is just a depressing slog to the finish. Would I take now compared to 0-16? Of course I would, but that's a pretty low freaking bar to crawl over. I think the worst part is how we don't even have a direction. We're getting a new coach soon (news flash), we aren't sure we have a franchise QB, and we don't really have a brand right now. Perhaps we do have a direction, and right now that direction is heading straight down. Can it change? Sure, but it's going to get worse before it gets better, count on it. 

So if you want to personally attack me, that's fine. It doesn't bother me. But this team is not good, and the scary part is that they can't figure out how to score points with a mostly healthy offense ALL year. What excuse is there?

Fans SHOULD be upset. This product is not anywhere near good enough and when you add in extra negatives like Myles Garrett and dramas with other players, you just get tired of it. 

[nickers]

4 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

Listen man, you can have your opinion and I'll have mine. I don't go telling people to jump off cliffs or go crying to moderators. But what I will do is express my beliefs of an underperforming franchise that continues to set new standards of futility. I wasn't disrespectful, I didn't personally attack anyone, and I didn't say a damn thing that wasn't true. You don't have to turn in your fan card just because you're not content with management, coaching, or personnel. 

I'm not ok with a team that simply can't score points. That has next to no big play ability. That pens a letter to the fans saying "we've arrived", then promptly gets boat-raced by a mediocre Titans team to lose yet ANOTHER season opener. No, I'm not happy with that. I'm not happy to continuously watch a team that has the heart of a field mouse and the maturity of a bunch of teenagers. 

There are many people who feel the exact way I do, and who can blame them? We aren't good, and we aren't even fun to watch. Jesus, every game is just a depressing slog to the finish. Would I take now compared to 0-16? Of course I would, but that's a pretty low freaking bar to crawl over. I think the worst part is how we don't even have a direction. We're getting a new coach soon (news flash), we aren't sure we have a franchise QB, and we don't really have a brand right now. Perhaps we do have a direction, and right now that direction is heading straight down. Can it change? Sure, but it's going to get worse before it gets better, count on it. 

So if you want to personally attack me, that's fine. It doesn't bother me. But this team is not good, and the scary part is that they can't figure out how to score points with a mostly healthy offense ALL year. What excuse is there?

Fans SHOULD be upset. This product is not anywhere near good enough and when you add in extra negatives like Myles Garrett and dramas with other players, you just get tired of it. 

Don't feel bad.. The last time we were any good I was in my early 20's

[jiggins7919]

1 hour ago, nickers said:

Don't feel bad.. The last time we were any good I was in my early 20's

I was 10! 😂