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Kitchens fate?

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23 minutes ago, Tim Couch Pulls Out said:

Fire him. Fire Wilks. Give Lincoln Riley every dollar in Haslam's piggy bank. Let a computer pick defensive plays. 

 

 

Wow, welcome back!

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56 minutes ago, browns52 said:

hate to say this but you are wrong....the discipline factor will never change with the coach we have now....you have to act like the pats do...they don't care how good you are but if you fuck up like garrett did, the pats would have cut his ass the next day regardless of how good he is...they would find a replacement right away and probably be sucessful....this team is full of undisciplined football players and that is not going to chg. unless we get a coach that can instill accountablity...and it all leads to our piece of shit owner....and believe me, he is a piece of shit...

You could be right, but you’re also the guy that calls my team the clowns like some kinda Steelers fan, so it’s not like l take anything you have to say seriously. You need a hug in the worst way man.

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5 minutes ago, Ibleedbrown said:

Wow, welcome back!

Thanks! It's been a while but clearly nothing has changed with these Browns. Same shit, different coach. 

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13 hours ago, hoorta said:

And anyone who thinks Freddie is "Safe" at this point is fooling themselves. He will get a mulligan if they get blown out by the Ratbirds next week, but lose to the Bungles week 17, you're one and done.....   

Yes, I'm pretty sure you are right. Will the team play for him or lay down for a coaching change?

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39 minutes ago, Tim Couch Pulls Out said:

Fire him. Fire Wilks. Give Lincoln Riley every dollar in Haslam's piggy bank. Let a computer pick defensive plays. 

 

 

Look who showed up!  Where you been?

Though, I think that the college coach may not be the way to go. 

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8 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Look who showed up!  Where you been?

Though, I think that the college coach may not be the way to go. 

Traveling and working, mostly. Decided to take a break from posting for a while and see how it affected my mental health. Glad to see many of the same guys are still posting, sad as shit to hear about Stan. 

With the offensive talent we have, I just want a guy who can utilize it efficiently. I honestly don't care where he comes from. I was never happy with the Freddie hire, I think he lacks conviction and that's what is being reflected on the field. 

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50 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Look who showed up!  Where you been?

Though, I think that the college coach may not be the way to go. 

Agree, need an experienced coach who can manage these outsized egos including Baker's.

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43 minutes ago, Tim Couch Pulls Out said:

Traveling and working, mostly. Decided to take a break from posting for a while and see how it affected my mental health. Glad to see many of the same guys are still posting, sad as shit to hear about Stan. 

With the offensive talent we have, I just want a guy who can utilize it efficiently. I honestly don't care where he comes from. I was never happy with the Freddie hire, I think he lacks conviction and that's what is being reflected on the field. 

Well....he lacks more than conviction.  He may actually have conviction.   I don't doubt his passion and desire to win.  It is a lot of other things that he does not have.  Start with competence.

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The only thing Kitchens seems qualified to do is sweep floors... He should apply for custodian at the new HS school facility they are building in Euclid... The place is Mammoth!!

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On 12/15/2019 at 2:10 PM, Icecube said:

Well thought out post, Jigs. I totally get the point about not wanting ANOTHER coaching change after 1 season. I get it. But I worry Freddie just doesn't have it in him, no matter how many chances he's given. I don't think the players respect him. Baker hinted that he is the discipline dearth cause. Let's put it this way: What would this team be with Ron Rivera or Mike McCarthy running the ship? I say a playoff team. 

I'll agree the level of discipline between Williams and Freddie is night and day. And it's not likely to change. I'm sure those who were being attentive saw Landry jawing at Freddie on the sidelines. MKC reported seeing Dorsey and Haslam after the game, and they both looked mighty pissed.... 

Regarding McCarthy- I saw a interview they (think it was ESPN) did with Mike- and if you want him- you're not only going to get him, you get the whole package that goes with him. He's already got most of his assistant coaches in place.....  

18 hours ago, dusty said:

Was watching the Eagles/Redskins earlier and the Fox announcers were playing up the fact that Urban was watching the game from Dan Browns box. They even had a graphic of the Redskin coaches records. While I don't believe Urban will coach anytime soon. What are the thoughts of him being a Brown?

I'd be for Urban. I have no idea why he was at the Redskins game. Meyer could almost universally get any player he wanted at OSU- the school almost recruits itself if you have pro aspirations. Urban certainly doesn't need anymore money, or the stress of coaching in the NFL.  

4 hours ago, browns52 said:

hate to say this but you are wrong....the discipline factor will never change with the coach we have now....you have to act like the pats do...they don't care how good you are but if you fuck up like garrett did, the pats would have cut his ass the next day regardless of how good he is...they would find a replacement right away and probably be successful....this team is full of undisciplined football players and that is not going to chg. unless we get a coach that can instill accountability...and it all leads to our piece of shit owner....and believe me, he is a piece of shit...

Hate on Haslam all you want- he's not going away any time soon..... 

You're dead wrong about Garrett. The Patriots and no other team in the NFL would cut a player of Myles talent level for one outburst. 

Believe me, I'm as frustrated as anyone after that debacle in the desert. But you have to have hope Dorsey will figure out what's gone wrong and try to fix it. 

2 hours ago, Tim Couch Pulls Out said:

Traveling and working, mostly. Decided to take a break from posting for a while and see how it affected my mental health. Glad to see many of the same guys are still posting, sad as shit to hear about Stan. 

With the offensive talent we have, I just want a guy who can utilize it efficiently. I honestly don't care where he comes from. I was never happy with the Freddie hire, I think he lacks conviction and that's what is being reflected on the field. 

You nailed it there TCPO, that's going to be Kitchens undoing. Rookie HC or not, Freddie has a talent laden roster, and seriously under performed using it. If he's one and done, it won't surprise me in the least. This is a totally different situation than when Chud got shown the door after one season. 

Sure, Baker regressing hasn't helped his cause, but there's plenty of other things besides that where he's failed. 

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We started off this season so full of hope that we have finally threw off the ghosts of our past but the first game made us crash so hard and fast.  Oh did I want an opening day win.  I watched that game on line and it made me hearken back to the "glory days" of 1 and 16 and our perfect season of 0 and 16.  I knew from that game on this was going to be a long season of bitter disappointments.  I don't know where the blame lies or even if it's justified.  We have a rookie head coach with an immature QB that keeps a "deadpool" list on his locker room door.  We have a perennial star receiving corp and running back that I dare say revivals "St" Jim Brown.  We have the 3rd youngest team and our  defense cornerstone should be a MMA fighter instead of an edge rusher.  Should the owner fire the coach?  Hell no, he hired him and the owner should ride this screwed up roller coast to the end and only let him go only if we go 0 and 16 under his sterling coaching.  May be we just expected too much from a QB that is more interested in settling scores than scoring touchdowns.  When we drafted Baker I thought it was a mistake but that late season run in 2018 made me reconsider and I looked forward to the 2019 season and not just to see if we could manage a number 1 draft pick...again.  My selection for the Browns QB in 2018 was Josh Allen and he really floundered in 2018 but he kept his mouth shut "a trait Baker should learn from", learned and led the Bills to the playoffs this year.  Wow!  Next year we will not be as lucky as we were this year regarding an easy schedule.  I say we should keep Baker and Kitchens to the bitter end, it's just too bad we will ruin the careers of many real football players like Chubb and Schobert.  Misery loves company.

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10 minutes ago, Hunter33109 said:

My selection for the Browns QB in 2018 was Josh Allen and he really floundered in 2018 but he kept his mouth shut "a trait Baker should learn from", learned and led the Bills to the playoffs this year. 

I agree with much of what you're saying, but don't forget Josh Allen has a DEFENSE. What's Baker's record if his defense could force a punt? The Steelers scored 10 points against them. And don't forget, we somehow BEAT the Bills. I don't even know where to begin...it's such a shit show, and it's going to get worse. In about 6 days. 

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23 minutes ago, Hunter33109 said:

We started off this season so full of hope that we have finally threw off the ghosts of our past but the first game made us crash so hard and fast.  Oh did I want an opening day win.  I watched that game on line and it made me hearken back to the "glory days" of 1 and 16 and our perfect season of 0 and 16.  I knew from that game on this was going to be a long season of bitter disappointments.  I don't know where the blame lies or even if it's justified.  We have a rookie head coach with an immature QB that keeps a "deadpool" list on his locker room door.  We have a perennial star receiving corp and running back that I dare say revivals "St" Jim Brown.  We have the 3rd youngest team and our  defense cornerstone should be a MMA fighter instead of an edge rusher.  Should the owner fire the coach?  Hell no, he hired him and the owner should ride this screwed up roller coast to the end and only let him go only if we go 0 and 16 under his sterling coaching.  May be we just expected too much from a QB that is more interested in settling scores than scoring touchdowns.  When we drafted Baker I thought it was a mistake but that late season run in 2018 made me reconsider and I looked forward to the 2019 season and not just to see if we could manage a number 1 draft pick...again.  My selection for the Browns QB in 2018 was Josh Allen and he really floundered in 2018 but he kept his mouth shut "a trait Baker should learn from", learned and led the Bills to the playoffs this year.  Wow!  Next year we will not be as lucky as we were this year regarding an easy schedule.  I say we should keep Baker and Kitchens to the bitter end, it's just too bad we will ruin the careers of many real football players like Chubb and Schobert.  Misery loves company.

I mostly agree with you. I do hope they have a change of heart and keep Schobert around. Looks like he's not looking to break the bank to stick around.  

But as to us having a tougher schedule next year- not so fast my friend. We play the NFC East- er, least. And the AFC South. Right now the wildcard games (we're pretty much locked into 3rd in the division) will be the Jets and Broncos or Chargers. https://fbschedules.com/nfl-2020/team/cleveland-browns

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2 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

I agree with much of what you're saying, but don't forget Josh Allen has a DEFENSE. What's Baker's record if his defense could force a punt? The Steelers scored 10 points against them. And don't forget, we somehow BEAT the Bills. I don't even know where to begin...it's such a shit show, and it's going to get worse. In about 6 days. 

Regarding our defense, we lost Kirksey early on, and then helmet swinging Garrett. Vernon been out with a bum knee, and Burnett is on IR. But that's no excuse. Look no farther than the Steelers with the number of injuries they've had, and they're still in playoff contention. 

Take the Browns minus Baker, Chubb, and Landry- we'd be in contention for a top five pick- easy. 

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4 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Regarding our defense, we lost Kirksey early on, and then helmet swinging Garrett. Vernon been out with a bum knee, and Burnett is on IR. But that's no excuse. Look no farther than the Steelers with the number of injuries they've had, and they're still in playoff contention. 

Take the Browns minus Baker, Chubb, and Landry- we'd be in contention for a top five pick- easy. 

That's just it.  I totally realize we lost a bunch of people on defense for various reasons, but nothing, and I mean NOTHING can explain how we gave up chunks of yardage to teams like the Bengals and Cardinals.  From the very first drive, the Cardinals AND Bengals just took it right to us.  I've never seen anything like yesterday, though.  Never seen a game where a very bad team just flat out got 10-15 yards on virtually every play.  

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19 hours ago, hoorta said:

And anyone who thinks Freddie is "Safe" at this point is fooling themselves. He will get a mulligan if they get blown out by the Ratbirds next week, but lose to the Bungles week 17, you're one and done.....   

Not saying he's safe... just playing the odds.

So long as the team doesn't lay down and quit prior to the end of the season, I see Freddie's return.

Our first and only one-and-done HC was let go because the team was seen as regressing as the season progressed. This was supported by a 3-2 start preceding a 1-11 finish. And despite all the evidence the owner was lambasted for the move to such a degree that he stuck with a HC who went winless in his 2nd season after a 1-15 season.

The 2019 team has won 4 of its last 6... 2 of 4 with its best player on the shelf.

 

6 hours ago, Tim Couch Pulls Out said:

Fire him. Fire Wilks. Give Lincoln Riley every dollar in Haslam's piggy bank. Let a computer pick defensive plays.

About damn time... been way too many folks agreeing with me 'round here. :ph34r:

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5 hours ago, hoorta said:

 Urban. I have no idea why he was at the Redskins game.  Urban certainly doesn't need anymore money, or the stress of coaching in the NFL.   

Most sources around here say Urban responded to a personal invite from Bucks WR Terry McLaurin... don't see it happening without a GM he'd trust or hand pick.. 

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14 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

Most sources around here say Urban responded to a personal invite from Bucks WR Terry McLaurin... don't see it happening without a GM he'd trust or hand pick.. 

True enough. Urban has enough clout he can call his own shots- and Washington & Snyder isn't where it's happening. 

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9 hours ago, nickers said:

The only thing Kitchens seems qualified to do is sweep floors... He should apply for custodian at the new HS school facility they are building in Euclid... The place is Mammoth!!

Dont forget plowin the back 40

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8 hours ago, hoorta said:

I'd be for Urban. I have no idea why he was at the Redskins game.

Super advance scouting for when he takes the Cowboy's job... :)

 

BTW... Chris Mortensen said today that he doubted Urban was doing anything, but visiting former players yesterday.... BUT...

... he has previously commented about what a desirable job that the Dallas HC position is. 😮

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Here are my two cents for what it worth. I am not in favor of axing Freddie..........yet. Will see how the last couple games play out. I have been underwhelmed by Steve Wilks for one. The D is gone to hell since Garret and Vernon have been out and the run D yesterday was atrocious. Problems I have seen with Freddie this year include discipline, time management, overly aggressive, gets too pass happy. Some of this has been improved to varying degrees over the course of the season. Somethings you would think would be self evident like, lets not hurry up and run a plays at the end of the half so Russel Wilson can then get the ball and have time to score. Stuff like that was just stupid.

 

Also I say get rid of Lindley, I don't think he is doing anything to help Baker be a better QB. Lets get someone who is experienced brought in to help Baker out. I want Baker to have that moxy to go deep, but also the have the good sense to know when you can take the shorter play when its open that still gets you the first down. Baker went from one of the best in the red zone last year to one of the worst this year. To me a lot of that comes down to coaching. So I would axe Wilks and Lindley for sure, maybe the DL coach too and keep the rest with everyone on notice. Lets see if Freddie can learn from year one and make jump just like we always talk about players making a jump in year two.

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8 hours ago, hoorta said:

Regarding our defense, we lost Kirksey early on, and then helmet swinging Garrett. Vernon been out with a bum knee, and Burnett is on IR. But that's no excuse. Look no farther than the Steelers with the number of injuries they've had, and they're still in playoff contention. 

Take the Browns minus Baker, Chubb, and Landry- we'd be in contention for a top five pick- easy. 

How do you think the Steelers would be faring if they had the Browns coaching staff? 

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2 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

How do you think the Steelers would be faring if they had the Browns coaching staff? 

And I'll let you tell me how the Browns would be doing if they had the Steelers coaching staff.  :D 

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7 hours ago, gumby73 said:

Most sources around here say Urban responded to a personal invite from Bucks WR Terry McLaurin... don't see it happening without a GM he'd trust or hand pick.. 

Urban is such an awesome coach,  just by showing up McLaurin had his biggest game of the year. 

Only half kidding

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It was stated that Fat Freddy is safe UNLESS there was a horrible melt down. The cards was a pretty horrible meltdown. I guess this board missed the UNLESS part.  Freddy is a deaddy 

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10 hours ago, runyon27 said:

Lets get someone who is experienced brought in to help Baker out. I want Baker to have that moxy to go deep, but also the have the good sense to know when you can take the shorter play when its open that still gets you the first down. Baker went from one of the best in the red zone last year to one of the worst this year.

It isn't even just the red zone now. How many times have you seen the wide open close in receiver have the ball thrown right over his head for an INT further downfield? I turned it off after the first one Sunday. Can't stand dumb and it's become a really bad habit.

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Think Jack del Rio is out there still.  Would not mind a defense minded HC.

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2 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

It isn't even just the red one now. How many times have you seen the wide open close in receiver have the ball thrown right over his head for an INT further downfield? I turned it off after the first one Sunday. Can't stand dumb and it's become a really bad habit.

I don't think it's just that Baker always goes for the big play.  I think it's worse than that.  He determines where he is throwing presnap in my opinion and he's throwing it there greater than 80% of the time.  Right after we got the only stop we had in the 2nd half it was 3rd and 6. Baker rolled right where we had trips on that side.  The inside receiver ran a 9 route (go,  streak, etc) the middle receiver (obj) ran a flag (corner) route and Landry ran a comeback route. Patrick Peterson basically ran the route for Landry and jumped that route. The inside receiver occupied the safety deep on his 9 route meaning there was no one to guard OBJ on the corner route. 10 yards farther downfield in the same line of sight as the comeback route OBJ is left completely unguarded on the flag route. Baker has time with the designed rollout running the same direction as the routes and he throws it to Landry who had the cornerback run his route for him.  

Baker needs to know where his first read is presnap based on the look the defense gives him,  but that doesn't mean you throw it to your first read automatically. 

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