I hate the Ravens

[Footbalfan1962]

6 hours ago, Babernakle said:

Let’s stop the car right there.  They are beatable.  Jackson is an average qb at best there d is average at best the o- line is among the best.  How to beat them.  I’ll tell you.  First you can set in a zone and have no pressure and give Jackson 6 to 9 seconds to set back there.  Two you have to shut the run down mainly o. The edges.  So personnel comes in to this.  Run a bear front and play man.  On the other side team need to run the ball.  Mainly off tackle.  There secondary is not that good the problem is the nfl is letting there corners mug the receivers.  And there lies the problem,  the nfl is protecting to raven, as there are with the stillers and pats.  Honestly how many holding and pass interference calls did the ravens get away with last night.

I stopped reading after the second line in your post

[The Cysko Kid]

18 hours ago, browns52 said:

hate the ravens but unless jackson suffers a season ending injury, they are going to the superbowl.....they will beat the shit out of the pats again which would be the only thing that would make me happy....

Not me. I want to see that Patriots / 49ers super bowl 

[stillmotion]

Screw Baltimore.

I will say, Lamar is playing amazing. I don't think it's fair to knock him just because Baltimore sucks in general.

The Rams suck this year, they aren't the team they used to be.

We beat Baltimore, they're overrated.

However, I've seen San Francisco in person. They AREN'T overrated, and they will shut down Baltimore. bank on it.

 

[LeftEdge]

4 hours ago, stillmotion said:

Screw Baltimore.

I will say, Lamar is playing amazing. I don't think it's fair to knock him just because Baltimore sucks in general.

The Rams suck this year, they aren't the team they used to be.

We beat Baltimore, they're overrated.

However, I've seen San Francisco in person. They AREN'T overrated, and they will shut down Baltimore. bank on it.

 

I hope you're right. I feel like Baltimore is on a roll but if the 9ers can put the brakes on them and win a low scoring game, it will bring the Ravens back down to earth a bit..

[Tour2ma]

14 hours ago, stillmotion said:

However, I've seen San Francisco in person. They AREN'T overrated, and they will shut down Baltimore. bank on it.

Bettin' the house are ya? Hope you've scoped out your local overpasses...

Ravens' #3-ranked run D (88 YPG) will put the game squarely in Jimmy G's hand(s) while SF's #19 run D (111 YPG) has to face Jackson's feet on top of Inman's.

Rushing Offense: 1. BLT 211 YPG; 2. SF 146 YPG

 

Oldest adage in football... "run the ball... stop the run."

[Bob806]

On 11/26/2019 at 6:47 AM, lodilobo said:

They look unbeatable. I don't think even the 49ers will beat them. It looks like Jackson took some hits last night, so that's really the only way I see that they don't win it all. If someone takes Jackson out, they come down to earth, but I have to admit, Ingram looks great. I give most of the credit to Harbaugh for finding an O.C. and building an offense tailored to Jackson.

This. 

Yeah, I hate those guys with a passion but you have to admit Harbaugh adjusts to his team's talent, and doesn't force a "system" all the time. 

[jiggins7919]

You know what really sucks? Our last game is against Cincy and not the Ravens. Had we played the Ravens last, there's a chance they could've rested all starters (many starters anyway) and given us basically a layup. I realize a lot would have to happen and all that, but certainly there would've been a chance at them resting key players if they couldn't advance their seating. Cuz man, I don't see them losing right now. This game against the 49's is gonna be big boy football. 

[tiamat63]

[The Gipper]

2 hours ago, Bob806 said:

This. 

Yeah, I hate those guys with a passion but you have to admit Harbaugh adjusts to his team's talent, and doesn't force a "system" all the time. 

I give 90% of the credit for their success to Harbaugh.....and only 10% to Jackson.

[The Gipper]

10 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

2001:  How will the NFL ever stop  Tom Brady?

18 years later, they are still trying to figure that one out. 

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, jiggins7919 said:

You know what really sucks? Our last game is against Cincy and not the Ravens. Had we played the Ravens last, there's a chance they could've rested all starters (many starters anyway) and given us basically a layup. I realize a lot would have to happen and all that, but certainly there would've been a chance at them resting key players if they couldn't advance their seating. Cuz man, I don't see them losing right now. This game against the 49's is gonna be big boy football. 

Too early to say that. Dependent on what the Patriots, Chiefs, and whoever will get the #4 seed do. If New England loses one, it will behoove the Ratbirds to try and win out to lock up the #1 overall seed. (They hold the tiebreaker over the Patsies) 

[hoorta]

2 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

I give 90% of the credit for their success to Harbaugh.....and only 10% to Jackson.

Sorry Gip. Jackson is the leader in the Clubhouse to nail down the MVP. 50\50 at worst. You can credit Harbaugh with the scheme, but how many wins you think the Ravens would have with our old pal RG III running the show? 4? 5?  

[hoorta]

4 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

2001:  How will the NFL ever stop  Tom Brady?

18 years later, they are still trying to figure that one out. 

Nothing like an outlier.... Like how many sixth round picks are lock HOFers, and considered the GOAT at their position?  

[SdBacker80]

14 hours ago, LeftEdge said:

I hope you're right. I feel like Baltimore is on a roll but if the 9ers can put the brakes on them and win a low scoring game, it will bring the Ravens back down to earth a bit..

9ers have the best collection of  9 guys blocking on their run plays that I’ve seen.  Sometimes Jimmy G gets involved. They have lineman making second level blocks every play, their TE blocks like a lineman and their WRs move the secondary.  We had no shot in that game early this year.  I don’t see the Ravens getting in their way.

[SdBacker80]

Take the ball first and score and dictate their play calls.  Jackson zinging it 30+ times is not their game. 

- Take away the TE.  Make a young QB go to second and third reads.  I don’t see any progression football from Jackson 

- Zone coverage drop 7 on passing downs.  

- 5 down on running downs. Occupy their G, C G try to get Ingram and company going East and west. 
- change the way you blitz. Rush lanes- controlled blitz contain the pocket. 

I maintain You need to see them before you can beat them.  Too many cocky D coordinators out their trying to run their scheme and not modify their approach.  Chiefs Pats Bills Browns may all be playoff teams and they’ve seen Jackson it’s a huge benefit
 

if I’m the Raven next year I draft a rangy tall redzone target WR for Jackson next year.  Someone that can make up for footballs that aren’t placed perfectly. Watch out when that happens.

this offseason we need to draft Or acquire a Jackson spy. 

[jiggins7919]

51 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Too early to say that. Dependent on what the Patriots, Chiefs, and whoever will get the #4 seed do. If New England loses one, it will behoove the Ratbirds to try and win out to lock up the #1 overall seed. (They hold the tiebreaker over the Patsies) 

Oh I know. Just having a bit of long distance fun. 😁

[The Gipper]

4 hours ago, hoorta said:

Sorry Gip. Jackson is the leader in the Clubhouse to nail down the MVP. 50\50 at worst. You can credit Harbaugh with the scheme, but how many wins you think the Ravens would have with our old pal RG III running the show? 4? 5?  

He would have more than that he would have maybe six. I do think it is the entire team that is playing well and I give that to the coach. But I’m more or less get your point

[Flugel]

18 hours ago, The Gipper said:

I give 90% of the credit for their success to Harbaugh.....and only 10% to Jackson.

The same Harbaugh was 4-5 until he finally inserted Jackson to close the 2018 regular season 10-6. 

You and Nickers argued with me earlier this year that Jackson sucks and 1 of you gave me the old "ever hear of RG3?"  RG3 is fragile and not nearly as agile.  Bad comparison.  Jackson is as elusive/difficult to get a clean shot at as Russell Wilson with the break away speed of Michael Vick (maybe even better) - only Jackson has a much better OL than Wilson has usually had.  And here we are with Jackson and Wilson being the 2 top candidates for MVP.  Not for nothing, but a lot of people like to forget Lamar Jackson won a Heisman with what he accomplished with his arm at a place like Louisville.

While Harbaugh and his OC (Greg Roman) has done a nice job playing to the QB's strengths - none of it works if there aren't strengths.  It feels like a lifetime ago when Tom Landry used to cringe when Roger Staubach refused to be a stationary pocket passer that got far more dangerous outside of the pocket/on the improvise.  Craig Morton was the stationary pocket passer kind of like Flacco was in Baltimore.  Who sparked the team?  Just the Head Coach in both situations? 

And didn't you assure me Baltimore's defense wouldn't be able to overcome the loss of T. Suggs (who's 37), GJ Mosley (who's been injured most of 2019), and Eric Weddle (currently starring at Melrose Place at 34 years of age). A defense's best friend is a QB that can move the chains and win time of possession battles while putting TDs on the board. Its other best friend is an OL that helps its running game rank #1 in rushing (and dominating time of possession) ever since the week after Joe Flacco was replaced interestingly enough...

If memory serves me right here - Mason Rudolph was your favorite QB in the 2018 draft class. 

[Canton Mike]

Now, now boys, play nice! After all, it IS Thanksgiving......Have a GREAT TURKEY DAY!!!  🦃

Mike

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

The same Harbaugh was 4-5 until he finally inserted Jackson to close the 2018 regular season 10-6. 

You and Nickers argued with me earlier this year that Jackson sucks and 1 of you gave me the old "ever hear of RG3?"  RG3 is fragile and not nearly as agile.  Bad comparison. 

It seemed fair at the time...but I agree with you that Jackson does seem far more durable. 

Jackson is as elusive/difficult to get a clean shot at as Russell Wilson with the break away speed of Michael Vick (maybe even better) - only Jackson has a much better OL than Wilson has usually had.  And here we are with Jackson and Wilson being the 2 top candidates for MVP.  Not for nothing, but a lot of people like to forget Lamar Jackson won a Heisman with what he accomplished with his arm at a place like Louisville.

While Harbaugh and his OC (Greg Roman) has done a nice job playing to the QB's strengths - none of it works if there aren't strengths.  It feels like a lifetime ago when Tom Landry used to cringe when Roger Staubach refused to be a stationary pocket passer that got far more dangerous outside of the pocket/on the improvise.  Craig Morton was the stationary pocket passer kind of like Flacco was in Baltimore.  Who sparked the team?  Just the Head Coach in both situations? 

And didn't you assure me Baltimore's defense wouldn't be able to overcome the loss of T. Suggs (who's 37), GJ Mosley (who's been injured most of 2019), and Eric Weddle (currently starring at Melrose Place at 34 years of age).

Yes, I did....are you trying to claim that it was NOT reasonable to think that the loss of that kind of talent would diminish the strength of that defense?   The continued strength of that defense goes to what?  It goes to the coaching.  Lamar Jackson has fuckall to do with how the defense there has performed.

A defense's best friend is a QB that can move the chains and win time of possession battles while putting TDs on the board. Its other best friend is an OL that helps its running game rank #1 in rushing (and dominating time of possession) ever since the week after Joe Flacco was replaced interestingly enough...

Well, maybe it helps some, but still that defense is performing well on its own.

Well, it sounds to me that you are turning it around, that you are giveing

If memory serves me right here - Mason Rudolph was your favorite QB in the 2018 draft class. 

No, that would be wrong.  I said that Rudolph could be in the mix to be as good as  the other QBs that were available in that draft....with Allen/Rosen/Jackson/Darnold.  though I thought Baker would be the best of the bunch.  Are you trying to sit here and say that you were all hot on Jackson before last year's draft?   I don't recall that. 

 

[Footbalfan1962]

20 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

Take the ball first and score and dictate their play calls.  Jackson zinging it 30+ times is not their game. 

- Take away the TE.  Make a young QB go to second and third reads.  I don’t see any progression football from Jackson 

- Zone coverage drop 7 on passing downs.  

- 5 down on running downs. Occupy their G, C G try to get Ingram and company going East and west. 
- change the way you blitz. Rush lanes- controlled blitz contain the pocket. 

I maintain You need to see them before you can beat them.  Too many cocky D coordinators out their trying to run their scheme and not modify their approach.  Chiefs Pats Bills Browns may all be playoff teams and they’ve seen Jackson it’s a huge benefit
 

if I’m the Raven next year I draft a rangy tall redzone target WR for Jackson next year.  Someone that can make up for footballs that aren’t placed perfectly. Watch out when that happens.

this offseason we need to draft Or acquire a Jackson spy. 

And for those that don't know, the Ravens have almost 50 million in cap space next year with Flaco off the books...Browns need to really keep improving and lets hope Pittsburgh can't find a QB

[Flugel]

29 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

 

No, when you and Nickers went tag-team disagreeing with me back when we argued about Jackson - the 1st thing I did before you guys came at me was admit I was wrong about Jackson on draft day. But we're not here to re-context what's inconvenient for you.  We're here to discuss what we talked about when Baltimore went from 4-5 with Flacco to 6-1 with Jackson in the 2018 regular season and 9-2 with him in the 2019 regular season. Instead of admitting you might be wrong - the SAME Harbaugh that was just 4-5 before changing QBs has you saying Baltimore's success is 90% Harbaugh and 10% Jackson.  It's okay to admit you're wrong in here. 

To your question of shouldn't Baltimore get worse on defense if they lose T Suggs, Eric Weddle and CJ Mosley? That depends on if their front office understands the difference between depreciating values and upside that can help them within the cap.  TSuggs is 37 years old, Weddle is 34 years old while Mosley had enough wear and tear on him that he's only suited for 2 games for his team in 2019.  Earl Thomas is playing in Weddle's spot. Weddle is playing in LA where they are experiencing a very disappointing season.  Suggs is probably still pretty good but not to the extent where there's as deep of a drop off replacing him in 2019. He's prolly closer to having grandchildren than additional Pro Bowl honors.

Gips, when a QB frequently converts 3rd downs to first downs his defense isn't on the field right?  Doesn't that make it hard to score on the defense when an opponent can't get your offense off the field? And what else happens when a defense rests while their offense dominates time of possession?  They have fresh legs and play with energy while they are protecting their leads.  You GET this.  It's just really inconvenient for you...

[The Gipper]

57 minutes ago, Flugel said:

No, when you and Nickers went tag-team disagreeing with me back when we argued about Jackson - the 1st thing I did before you guys came at me was admit I was wrong about Jackson on draft day. But we're not here to re-context what's inconvenient for you. 

I don't recall back then that I took any particular stance on Jackson at the time he was drafted. (I do recall my position on Rudolph),  so, there is nothing inconvenient  for me to re-context.

We're here to discuss what we talked about when Baltimore went from 4-5 with Flacco to 6-1 with Jackson in the 2018 regular season and 9-2 with him in the 2019 regular season. Instead of admitting you might be wrong - the SAME Harbaugh that was just 4-5 before changing QBs has you saying Baltimore's success is 90% Harbaugh and 10% Jackson.  It's okay to admit you're wrong in here. 

Is it OK for me to do so?  Good.  Ain't gonna do it.  I still give far more credit to the coach. 

To your question of shouldn't Baltimore get worse on defense if they lose T Suggs, Eric Weddle and CJ Mosley?

That was not my question either.  My question was:  was it unreasonable to assume that that defense would suffer after the loss of that kind of veteran talent...if they had seemingly done nothing to replace it, which, seemingly, they didn't (until, that is, they signed Earl Thomas)

That depends on if their front office understands the difference between depreciating values and upside that can help them within the cap.  TSuggs is 37 years old, Weddle is 34 years old while Mosley had enough wear and tear on him that he's only suited for 2 games for his team in 2019. 

The fact that Mosley got injured this year, however, does not detract from his talent. I am sure that the Ratfuckers did not possess any kind of prescience that was telling them that Mosley would be injured....be it that he stayed there and played or went elsewhere.  

Earl Thomas is playing in Weddle's spot. (Isn't Earl Thomas about the same age as Weddle?)  Weddle is playing in LA where they are experiencing a very disappointing season.  Suggs is probably still pretty good but not to the extent where there's as deep of a drop off replacing him in 2019. He's prolly closer to having grandchildren than additional Pro Bowl honors.

OK, these guys were old....but, last year, all three were pillars for that defense. Again, other than the Thomas signing, it did not appear that they had really done any replenishing nor upgrading in talent.  So, they got Thomas for Weddle....but who, really, did they get to replace Mosley and Suggs.   A hodge podge of names that...apparently, through quality coaching, have seemingly worked out.

Gips, when a QB frequently converts 3rd downs to first downs his defense isn't on the field right?  Doesn't that make it hard to score on the defense when an opponent can't get your offense off the field? And what else happens when a defense rests while their offense dominates time of possession?  They have fresh legs and play with energy while they are protecting their leads.  You GET this.  It's just really inconvenient for you...

No, I get it perfectly....always have .but unlike you, apparently, I don't think  that is the be all and end all of the matter.   Sure, a good offense that maintains drives and possesses the ball for long periods helps a defense, no doubt. That is just basic.  But the defense has a role to play as well.  While that offense may be doing a good job of hanging onto the ball....that defense has also done  a good job of forcing the other team to give it up.    That defense is only allowing the opposition a 39%  third down conversion rate.   They have only allowed 20 TDs all season.  

Just " keeping their defense fresh"  doesn't account for all those stats. They have performed well all on their own.

But, you know what...in checking, I am STILL right about that defense having a fall off:  

Last season 2018, the Ravens defense ranked #1 in the league in yards allowed and #2 in the league in points allowed.  This year, 2019, they rank #11 in yards allowed, and #5 in yards allowed.  So...there HAS been a statistical dropoff on their defense.   (But yes, it is there offense which has had the bit statistical jump......they are #1 in points scored and #2 in yards gained,  compared to  #13 and #9 last year in those categories) 

 

[Flugel]

20 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

 

You didn't read - you re-contexted again regarding Jackson. Our debate about him as I mentioned was earlier this year not to be confused with before the draft.  Read the very first paragraph you replied to. We don't need court room tricks. Just read what's there instead of what isn't...

Sorry none of that is convenient for you.  It explains why you keep needing to re-try it until you get it right.  Good luck with that!

[ATOM]

On 11/28/2019 at 5:50 AM, Canton Mike said:

Now, now boys, play nice! After all, it IS Thanksgiving......Have a GREAT TURKEY DAY!!!  🦃

Mike

o.k it's the day after and after jamming to The Kinks and having a eye opener I have this to say

 

 

FUCK BALTIMORE and FUCK that mush mouth talking jackson