Baker has turned the corner

[Dutch Oven]

17 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

Man, I don't know about you guys, but I'm nervous AF about this game, lol. I think it's because there's so much riding on it. If we win, we literally still have life. We'd be 4-6 with some legit easier games on the horizon. Sure, we'd have to beat them again in 2 weeks, but whatever. 

You know what I REALLY want to see? I want to see a freaking blowout victory. A start to finish BEATDOWN. No red zone issues, no sloppiness, and no drama. Just a home win for the good guys that's awesome to watch 

Hey, a brother can dream, right? 😂

This team is due a blowout victory, and I can't think of any better time to do it than against the Steelers. 

And I'm sorry, the Steelers have no business winning a fifth game in a row. 

[jiggins7919]

13 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

This team is due a blowout victory, and I can't think of any better time to do it than against the Steelers. 

And I'm sorry, the Steelers have no business winning a fifth game in a row. 

Yep. I'm with you. It's time. 

I was perfectly happy to eek out a win last week, but I'm being greedy now. BEAT THEIR ASSES! Hehehehe 

And you know what? You're absolutely right. Mason Rudolph and the Steelers don't get to win 5 in a row. 

[TexasAg1969]

5 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

Yep. I'm with you. It's time. 

I was perfectly happy to eek out a win last week, but I'm being greedy now. BEAT THEIR ASSES! Hehehehe 

And you know what? You're absolutely right. Mason Rudolph and the Steelers don't get to win 5 in a row. 

I just love it when you set yourself up. "Lucy tee that damn thing up again and I'll kick it to the moon!"🧐🏈🌚😂

[jiggins7919]

9 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

I just love it when you set yourself up. "Lucy tee that damn thing up again and I'll kick it to the moon!"🧐🏈🌚😂

Bwahaha!  And I hate it when you're right!  🤣🤦‍♂️

The last time I predicted a blowout was the Broncos game.  Obviously I was just a LITTLE off.  

Oh, and is THIS the week we finally get a defensive score?  Sure would be nice.  But hey, it's the Steelers vs the Browns, and it's in Cleveland.  I know I'm excited, and I also know my wife is furious because (in her words) "The Steelers always beat your team and you're always pissy afterwards."  LOL

[Ibleedbrown]

20 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

So I had a lovely additional tab open with youtube links and about a paragraph already typed up before I left this morning.  Looks like my computer locked up because I reset and chrome didn't save shit.   Apologies for the condensed response because this was going to be FAR more detailed at first.    Now I'm a bit time crunched as usual.   But In it I had time stamped examples of things I see to support my belief(s)... which boils down to the following.

- I believe Baker is missing quite a bit pre-snap.   This is a result of play calls not getting in on time, perhaps some new language, and game itself moving too fast for the young QB.   Sure, he may "see" things, but they don't register at the speed they should.  This is where I linked to box counts, split counts, and defensive shifts that have put the offense into positions the QB should be looking to avoid.    Remember the safety flying down on Chubb on 3rd and short?  Baker never saw it coming.       The 5th man off the edge this past weekend vs the Bills?  Baker never saw him.    Again, I can circle back around and say that it isn't all* on Baker.   At least, I would certainly hope not.  Because that would mean some of the problems are systemic and thus very fixable.  

- Baker still has a tendency to force things post-snap and isn't moving his eyes quick enough.    It's quintessential Farve in a sense.   The Seahawks game was another one where I had time stamps showing Baker missing WIDE OPEN, easy throws with a ton of YAC potential.  Instead he settled for what he read off rip and, while at times made the completion, other times forced the ball where it had zero business going.   That amazing catch by ODB near the sidelines?  Baker had a #2 receiver with 3 yards of separation just up and off to his right for 13 yards and the easy first down.      It reminds me of a throw he made vs the Eagles his rookie year.   I'll never forget it because, in my mind, gave a foreshadow to the QB I hope Baker isn't going to remain.   I've had this video bookmarked from my comments on Chubb starting last year  (go back and check, but I believe I mentioned that Chubb would fit much better with Hue engineering more zone runs for him...  fastforward and Chub has made my assessment look brilliant)

 

Go to 0:20 in that video.   That is against a pretty vanilla cover 3.   To that side the #1 is Higgy and the #2 is Njoku.     Baker saw the zone, had time to let the defender expand, eye'd the safety down the hash but... (here's the theme starting with the Texans game last year)  never checked the underneath defender(s).    He makes a great throw to Higgy on the sideline, and, yes - he got the 1st down.   But it was a throw that his coaches should have dinged him for.  It was, IMHO, turnover worthy.    Granted the line between those big throws and turnover worthy throws is razor thin at times.   But you already see that if Baker goes from CB to safety to underneath, his eyes would have taken him to (another theme you'll notice) a WIDE OPEN Njoku as the #2.     All Mayfield has to do is put the ball to David's inside shoulder and he could walk for another 5 yards.   Easy, effective and safe.

See, this is where the inherit gunslinger QB is revealed as both brilliant and flawed.     Baker made the throw and I won't attempt to bullshit that part. He put the sauce on it and did it with great placement for a big play.   But he DIDN'T have to.     Baker made this conversion much more difficult than it had to be.      Now sure, you can say that was his rookie year and such.    But there were a couple moments vs that similar vanilla cover 3 we just saw from Seattle where our QB did some of those familiar things I just pointed out to you.   And that in a nutshell highlights my concern re: a lack of "growth" and being at NFL speed mentally.

 

I find myself asking this question over the course of the last few weeks - Baker is statistically better than what he was when the season started... But is HE* really playing better?      Or is this the sum of reeling in our(young) turnover prone QB, running the offense through Chubb and attempting to emulate a dash of the offensive success we experienced starting the same time last year?

 

edit:  Also concern in my mind re: erratic footwork at times, the lack of pocket manipulation and reverting back to missing passes high/ball placement.

We'll see what happens tomorrow night.  But I'm not hoping on this "Baker's light is back on" train.  I don't believe in making snap judgements like that on most things.        And should Thursday be a god damn disaster, well, this thread is going to be worth a re-read.  

 

 

I read and watched the video and appreciate the reply, and feel your pain on the deleted work. I actually thought that throw to Higgins you pointed out was a good one, and kinda one of those things l liked about Baker last year. It seemed when he had the choice to throw long or short, he went long. I thought Higgins had good separation there and the result was more net yards than likely would’ve been gained had he gone underneath. 

I can’t pretend to hang with you on things like analyzing footwork and what he does or doesn’t see pre-snap, but l feel like l’m using more basic metrics to measure his improvement over the course of the last few games. Namely, he’s throwing fewer passes that are missing high and fewer “coulda been intercepted” passes. Like instead of 3 “coulda been intercepted” passes per game to like 2 per game.

And his passes sailing high, we saw that far too often earlier this season, and l figure it had to be a mechanical thing. Not sure anyone is saying he’s “fixed” now, but he does seem to be improving.

[Orion]

19 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

This team is due a blowout victory,

We don't seem to handle those very well.  We come out of 'em thinking we're God's gift to football.

--  I'm not convinced anybody has turned any corners yet.  It seems when somebody says something like that, we turn down a one way street - the wrong way.

[Icecube]

20 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

This team is due a blowout victory, and I can't think of any better time to do it than against the Steelers. 

And I'm sorry, the Steelers have no business winning a fifth game in a row. 

You are what your record says you are. If Pitt wins their 5th straight game, they will deserve to win their 5th straight game. 

[gumby73]

21 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

This team is due a blowout victory, and I can't think of any better time to do it than against the Steelers. 

And I'm sorry, the Steelers have no business winning a fifth game in a row. 

Am in the Dutch Camp^^ Were close to taking the lid off on some big plays..Our OL, as a unit, has to win the games MVP award.

I Hate The Steelers shirt was wore under the #6 🧔 Jersey at work today..Barked at every Steelqueen fan I knew..

Watch! The pass maybe thrown off the wrong back foot? or It maybe tossed up into double coverage? Am just feel'in a Dangerous Baker night is overdue in the Primetime spotlight..  Hunt while at KC, raped them on dink pass..expect more of the same 

Shut up the hater's Bake & Go Browns!!   

[hx214]

Bake looked pretty sharp tonight. Still not on the same page with OBJ. I thought Hodges was going to have a huge night but went silent after the second catch.

Still gotta question some of his reads. Missed Hunt open in the flats on a few big plays, and even though it was a HELL of a throw to the new TE in the back of the Endzone to make it 21-7.... I gotta question why you throw that kinda ball on 3rd down that close the the goal post when you can be smart and not put the ball in harms way and take the points to go up by two scores..... but.... I’d rather see those kinda mistakes than physical ineptitude that can’t be improved on.  (Serious though if you missed that throw, rewind and watch the angle from the sideline.... Bake wizzed that thing! It just STUCK in the TE’s arms... that’s the throw we needed at the end of the Rams game...) 

The defense is gonna be weakened without its star DE now.  Gonna have to crank up the heat and put a lot of points on the board. Let’s do it.

[crunchy]

On 11/11/2019 at 1:07 PM, crunchy said:

We can, we're due for a long td to OBJ and a defensive td. If we can get an early lead and no turnovers, they can't come back.

I think we can get to Mason 'Statue' Rudolph as well, get a couple turnovers of our own. Pittcrap was lucky to beat the colts and got a bunch of questionable calls to beat the rams. That fumble recovery that wasn't reviewed for no reason was a joke

I hate to quote myself but... Damn! Was I ever right about this one 😎 (I still think that was a td to OBJ, refs tried to screw us) 

[The Gipper]

6 minutes ago, hx214 said:

Bake looked pretty sharp tonight. Still not on the same page with OBJ. I thought Hodges was going to have a huge night but went silent after the second catch.

Still gotta question some of his reads. Missed Hunt open in the flats on a few big plays, and even though it was a HELL of a throw to the new TE in the back of the Endzone to make it 21-7.... I gotta question why you throw that kinda ball on 3rd down that close the the goal post when you can be smart and not put the ball in harms way and take the points to go up by two scores..... but.... I’d rather see those kinda mistakes than physical ineptitude that can’t be improved on.  (Serious though if you missed that throw, rewind and watch the angle from the sideline.... Bake wizzed that thing! It just STUCK in the TE’s arms... that’s the throw we needed at the end of the Rams game...) 

The defense is gonna be weakened without its star DE now.  Gonna have to crank up the heat and put a lot of points on the board. Let’s do it.

Still poor Scheme and poor playcalling by the coaches

[jrb12711]

7 hours ago, hx214 said:

Bake looked pretty sharp tonight. Still not on the same page with OBJ. I thought Hodges was going to have a huge night but went silent after the second catch.

Still gotta question some of his reads. Missed Hunt open in the flats on a few big plays, and even though it was a HELL of a throw to the new TE in the back of the Endzone to make it 21-7.... I gotta question why you throw that kinda ball on 3rd down that close the the goal post when you can be smart and not put the ball in harms way and take the points to go up by two scores..... but.... I’d rather see those kinda mistakes than physical ineptitude that can’t be improved on.  (Serious though if you missed that throw, rewind and watch the angle from the sideline.... Bake wizzed that thing! It just STUCK in the TE’s arms... that’s the throw we needed at the end of the Rams game...) 

The defense is gonna be weakened without its star DE now.  Gonna have to crank up the heat and put a lot of points on the board. Let’s do it.

Not saying you feel this way, but looking back on that throw I'm fine with it. You see a defender clearly with his back turned it's very likely incomplete, at best caught or DPI.

Best comment I saw about it was that if Russell Wilson makes that throw people would be chanting MVP.

[tiamat63]

A much more "controlled" Baker.  He's playing smarter within the confines of the offense and when he does go off script (Throw to Hodge) he was more decisive about it. 

A return to fundamentals is nice to see.  If Baker hovers around 61-62% comp, avoids turnovers and we run effectively, then 8 wins is in this teams grasp. 

[jiggins7919]

7 hours ago, hx214 said:

Bake looked pretty sharp tonight. Still not on the same page with OBJ. I thought Hodges was going to have a huge night but went silent after the second catch.

Still gotta question some of his reads. Missed Hunt open in the flats on a few big plays, and even though it was a HELL of a throw to the new TE in the back of the Endzone to make it 21-7.... I gotta question why you throw that kinda ball on 3rd down that close the the goal post when you can be smart and not put the ball in harms way and take the points to go up by two scores..... but.... I’d rather see those kinda mistakes than physical ineptitude that can’t be improved on.  (Serious though if you missed that throw, rewind and watch the angle from the sideline.... Bake wizzed that thing! It just STUCK in the TE’s arms... that’s the throw we needed at the end of the Rams game...) 

The defense is gonna be weakened without its star DE now.  Gonna have to crank up the heat and put a lot of points on the board. Let’s do it.

LOL! I feel the same way. That throw reminded me of the movie "Necessary Roughness" when the WR Featherstone couldn't catch anything so the QB (Scott Bakula) rifles the ball as hard as possible so it gets stuck in Featherstone's facemask, LOL. 

I loved seeing Carlson go up and make that play for Baker. I thought he was going to POP the football he was squeezing it so hard, haha. But I actually agree with you. The throw itself was a risk he didn't need to take. What if the ball hits the defender's helmet and pops straight up to get picked? Why take the risk? In a game where the Steelers couldn't do ANYTHING, a 10 point lead seems like 50, right? 

But, whatever. Our rookie TE somehow caught it and effectively ended the game. It was a wild play and I loved seeing how the team reacted. Demetrius Harris was so jacked for Carlson...loved seeing it. 

Gotta get to work, but lots more to discuss. Another multiple TD game for Baker and no turnovers. That'll do! 

[jrb12711]

For reference, last three games

62.5% completion, 6 total TDS, no turnovers. Last two game QBR were 74 and 73, respectively (which is where the leaders in the NFL are at typically, or close).

Definitely encouraging.

[crunchy]

1 hour ago, jrb12711 said:

For reference, last three games

62.5% completion, 6 total TDS, no turnovers. Last two game QBR were 74 and 73, respectively (which is where the leaders in the NFL are at typically, or close).

Definitely encouraging.

So encouraging! And based on the 'eye test' he's looking much better as well. Extending the play multiple times last night, feeling the pocket, directing receivers when he rolls out, being decisive, just making smart decisions consistently. 

And once again, this is against another top ten pass defense. And one that had been creating a TON of turnovers. 

[jrb12711]

35 minutes ago, crunchy said:

So encouraging! And based on the 'eye test' he's looking much better as well. Extending the play multiple times last night, feeling the pocket, directing receivers when he rolls out, being decisive, just making smart decisions consistently. 

And once again, this is against another top ten pass defense. And one that had been creating a TON of turnovers. 

For sure. I said all along Baker is a huge, huge momentum guy. I can see him feasting next week.

[Ibleedbrown]

I actually thought this was one of the grittiest performances we’ve seen from Baker. Period. There were more than a few plays he had to scramble like a maniac just to get the ball out.

[onkyoreceiver]

And the last two games Baker did this against two of the better defenses in the NFL - so nobody can say that he did it against soft opponents.  Definitely encouraging .

[jiggins7919]

1 hour ago, onkyoreceiver said:

And the last two games Baker did this against two of the better defenses in the NFL - so nobody can say that he did it against soft opponents.  Definitely encouraging .

That is such a terrific point. Let's not forget, this Steelers defense was absolutely murdering teams with sacks and turnovers. I know many of us were starting to get pretty nervous after we were up 14-7 for what felt like forever. We basically put the game in our defense's hands and let them do their thing. When we absolutely had to get that last score, we finally did in dramatic fashion. What a catch by the rookie TE, and what a throw (risky for my blood, but whatever, lol). 

Steelers were living on turnovers and defensive touchdowns. Heck, just the other week or so they were down 14 to the Dolphins I think, and what happened? I'm pretty sure they got a defensive TD and that helped seal it. We cut off their lifeline by not turning it over and that made all the difference. 

I have a feeling we might see an offensive explosion soon. OBJ and Hunt might be fantasy studs next week...just a hunch. 

Edit:  I randomly looked up some of the defensive stats from teams like the Bills, Broncos, and Steelers, and it's borderline incredible that we were able to do some of the things we did. Now, we were FAR from great mind you, but some of these defenses made fools of some pretty decent teams. We got the Fins coming up, and according to CBS Sports they're absolutely miserable defensively. 19th against the pass, but 31st against the run. This Dolphins team can still beat us if we crap down our leg, but if we bring the intensity there's little reason why we can't dominate this game. 

[Dutch Oven]

Baker is definitely trending upward, his play Thursday night was exactly what the Browns needed. The only way Pittsburgh was going to win was if the Browns turned the ball over.

That said, Baker and OBJ have zero chemistry. It isn't getting better as the season goes.

[Canton Mike]

32 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

Baker is definitely trending upward, his play Thursday night was exactly what the Browns needed. The only way Pittsburgh was going to win was if the Browns turned the ball over.

That said, Baker and OBJ have zero chemistry. It isn't getting better as the season goes.

Makes a case for players actually showing up for OTAs etc, doesn't it? Let's hope OBJ realizes that.

Mike

[Dutch Oven]

6 minutes ago, Canton Mike said:

Makes a case for players actually showing up for OTAs etc, doesn't it? Let's hope OBJ realizes that.

Mike

And how many folks on here thought it meant nothing too? 

[Canton Mike]

3 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

And how many folks on here thought it meant nothing too? 

I was one of those, thinking his working with Baker in LA was good enough.........I was WRONG.

Mike

[gumby73]

I've been watching far to many 'Junk Steps' in Odel's short & intermediate routes on the all 22.. the timing & sight routes are getting Baker bailing out of the pocket..

Watch the OBJ & Hodge bombs👀 even the big gainer that Landry catches in 2nd at 11:37..They all had the same things in common.. Bakers front foot is buried on the ground in the pocket..Bake leads them all to the ball to catching it..

[Icecube]

Baker didn't just turn the corner in his play, but in his leadership and maturity. He came off as just legit after the game. 

[nickers]

The good news is Baker is coming back to his old dangerous ways..... If letting Callaway go is part of the catalyst for that to happen.. so be it... I'm not gonna blame him lol...Baker has worked his ass off.. I pray he will continue to stay the course and run....

[PoeticG]

Baker's guy Njoku should be back this week. 

OBJ, Landry, Higgins, Njoku, Chubb and Hunt are six effective weapons for a dangerous QB to have in his arsenal. 

[Dutch Oven]

Here's the rub though.... This "improving" offense still can't score points. 

And with the defense in the shape it is in, that is going to be very important. Scoring 20 points a game is not going to cut it. 

[jiggins7919]

17 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

Here's the rub though.... This "improving" offense still can't score points. 

And with the defense in the shape it is in, that is going to be very important. Scoring 20 points a game is not going to cut it. 

Yeah, I think you're MOSTLY right. Here's the one caveat....we've literally been playing top 5 defenses for what seems like the past 5 weeks. The teams we played haven't given up that many points to basically anyone, so while we definitely haven't been CLICKING, it's also not TOO damning to see us struggle to capitalize on our opportunities. 

That's what makes this Dolphins game so vital for our offense. We're FINALLY playing a team that's not a defensive juggernaut. Miami ranks 19th against the pass, and like 30th against the rush (per CBS app). That's a stark contrast to the other teams we played, so if we're REALLY taking steps forward, we'll be able to tell next Sunday. 

Edit:  One thing that bothered me at the end of the game was Baker's last TD pass. We were in a situation where a FG makes the game a two score lead, and that would be virtually insurmountable in a game where Rudolph was struggling so hard. Baker rifled a contested ball to a rookie who really wasn't open. It was a chance we didn't need to take. The WORST part was Hodge was WIDE OPEN across the middle in the same exact sight line. I don't know how he didn't see him. Would've been a much safer and easier toss.