Baker has turned the corner

[crunchy]

Baker's quietly put three good games in a row together and the offense has looked a lot more fluid. He has 4 td and 1 int in the last 3 and that int was on a shovel pass, so that's not even a real int, it's just a play that was blown up (Billicheat probably knew it was coming, so no credit to the Pats). 

And he's done this against 3 of the top 10 secondaries. Of course, he gets another one in the Douchlers on Thursday, but he's battle-tested now. AND he got two redzone passing tds today, so that bodes well for the future. 

Baker and the offense are starting to get in a groove. They're looking way more in rhythm than they did at the beginning of the year, when Baker was holding onto the ball forever and every pass play looked so difficult. When he marched them down the field for the go-ahead score today, it was much more in sync. Just made good reads, got the ball out, boom, first down. 

This She-lers team is vulnerable, they don't have a good running or passing offense. If we can get just two tds I think we can take them. And with Baker and the offense rolling, I like our chances! 

[bbedward]

He's playing better, which is good. He got bailed out on a couple passes that could have been game breakers yesterday, most notably in the 4th where he lobbed it into double coverage but the two bills players ran into each other.

Overall the offense is looking better.

[tiamat63]

Wish I could agree.

[Ibleedbrown]

Good post. I was kinda thinking the same that Baker seems to be easing back into the guy we thought he was the last few games. Keep it up Baker.

[Ibleedbrown]

3 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Wish I could agree.

Do tell. I know he got “lucky” on a couple passes, but luck is fickle like that and one could argue he was on the other side of lady luck earlier games in the season. Baker’s still gonna be gunslinger-like, so he’s gonna make some bad throws, but lessening those bad throws is what l feel like he’s done the last few games.

[The Gipper]

3 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Wish I could agree.

CLE

B. Mayfield 26-38, 238 YDS, 2 TDs

 

What about these particular stats do you find deficient?

[hx214]

Even when he isn't playing that great and putting up low numbers, the type of throws he can make shows that he is the best QB we have had in a long time.

See the incomplete pass 30 yards downfield on a double covered OBJ and OBJ misplayed on the last step and missed it by a finger tip. That ball couldn't have been thrown better on his part. 

That Landry pass at the end of the game was as ridiculous as the catch.

[Bob806]

Agree to a point, but we still struggle to score. It's not all on him.

The Squealers game will be a toughie, no doubt. Their D is playing well. Can Baker and the Browns make enough plays to win? Sure hope so.

 

[crunchy]

1 minute ago, Bob806 said:

Agree to a point, but we still struggle to score. It's not all on him.

The Squealers game will be a toughie, no doubt. Their D is playing well. Can Baker and the Browns make enough plays to win? Sure hope so.

 

We can, we're due for a long td to OBJ and a defensive td. If we can get an early lead and no turnovers, they can't come back.

I think we can get to Mason 'Statue' Rudolph as well, get a couple turnovers of our own. Pittcrap was lucky to beat the colts and got a bunch of questionable calls to beat the rams. That fumble recovery that wasn't reviewed for no reason was a joke

[mjp28]

6 minutes ago, Bob806 said:

Agree to a point, but we still struggle to score. It's not all on him.

The Squealers game will be a toughie, no doubt. Their D is playing well. Can Baker and the Browns make enough plays to win? Sure hope so.

 

It's going to be a real fast week they play again in 3+ days from right now.

On turning the corner put up a few really good numbers games, get back to 6-6 and we'll all say yeah....... he's back.

GO BROWNS, two in a row.....baby!

[jiggins7919]

I agree, to a point. That safety he took was truly bad. True, the playcall was atrocious, but Baker HAD to know presnap that he had no time and no help on that side. I didn't look at it much, so it's possible that we blew an assignment, but it appeared to be an empty formation...at the goal line. Baker HAD to know. 

But, like I said, I largely agree. Baker's accuracy was ON POINT yesterday. I would've LOVED to see him hit those OBJ deep balls, but they're super close. Virtually every other pass, save the INT drop, was there. He hit OBJ on the fade, but it got knocked away (perfectly thrown). Many other throws, perfect. He took a step, that's for sure. 

[Icecube]

Steelers D is playing lights out right now. That Fitzpatrick is a total beast, making a huge difference. 

[jiggins7919]

10 minutes ago, Icecube said:

Steelers D is playing lights out right now. That Fitzpatrick is a total beast, making a huge difference. 

Him and Devon Bush. They seem to score every week. We haven't had a defensive TD in forever. It's gonna be a nightmare game. If we win, it's gonna be a close one. 

[bjh2130]

2 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

I agree, to a point. That safety he took was truly bad. True, the playcall was atrocious, but Baker HAD to know presnap that he had no time and no help on that side. I didn't look at it much, so it's possible that we blew an assignment, but it appeared to be an empty formation...at the goal line. Baker HAD to know. 

But, like I said, I largely agree. Baker's accuracy was ON POINT yesterday. I would've LOVED to see him hit those OBJ deep balls, but they're super close. Virtually every other pass, save the INT drop, was there. He hit OBJ on the fade, but it got knocked away (perfectly thrown). Many other throws, perfect. He took a step, that's for sure. 

It wasn't a blown assignment. It was a 3 step drop. On a 3 step drop the ball has to come out at the very top of the drop which is very dependent on the quarterback recognizing the coverage presnap to determine what route has best chance of being open. Even if nothing is open you fire it over someone's head out of bounds.

[jiggins7919]

32 minutes ago, bjh2130 said:

It wasn't a blown assignment. It was a 3 step drop. On a 3 step drop the ball has to come out at the very top of the drop which is very dependent on the quarterback recognizing the coverage presnap to determine what route has best chance of being open. Even if nothing is open you fire it over someone's head out of bounds.

Yeah, that's what I figured, but I didn't want to sound certain without looking at it again. Thanks for clearing it up. 

I REALLY wish that didn't happen. It's a really bad play, as you stated, he's GOT to fire that ball out, and he's GOT to know that. Do I like the call? Nope. We'd been running it well all day and I would prefer to try and get some distance from the goal line. What also hurt is that I seem to remember Baker's read over the middle being somewhat open. Open enough to let it rip. Hopefully this is a mistake he won't make again. It could have cost us the game. 

You know what else was bothersome? Our offense had two possessions in the 3rd and 4th quarter where we could've extended the 12-9 lead. Two drives that basically went nowhere. The good teams bury opponents and we couldn't do it. Again, hopefully we learn from it! 

But hey, Baker looked pretty sharp. I loved seeing the 2 deep shots to OBJ. Those will connect soon, and I'm thinking Thursday. 

[jcam222]

The addition of Hunt as a check down and target is helping almost immediately I would say. Getting Higgins out of the doghouse and back on the field will be great as well. If they default back to weed head jr. tomorrow instead of Higgins that will truly suck.  

[Kvoethe]

In a round room?

[jiggins7919]

1 hour ago, jcam222 said:

The addition of Hunt as a check down and target is helping almost immediately I would say. Getting Higgins out of the doghouse and back on the field will be great as well. If they default back to weed head jr. tomorrow instead of Higgins that will truly suck.  

I've said it before but I'm saying it again...Kareem Hunt was a grown MAN out there. I read something to the effect where he was in for only 1 out of 13 red zone plays. That's gonna CHANGE, son. Hunt can block, he can catch, and he can run. We're going to work on our two back formation in the red zone, and I have high hopes. That man looked READY to play, and it's not a stretch to say he was the difference in us winning the game. Remember the game-winning drive, right after the overturned fumble for a TD? The next play was 3rd and 7 and where did we go? What did we dial up? Kareem Hunt out pattern. Baker threw it on the nails, Hunt caught it clean. HUGE play. 

[Bob806]

18 hours ago, crunchy said:

We can, we're due for a long td to OBJ and a defensive td. If we can get an early lead and no turnovers, they can't come back.

I think we can get to Mason 'Statue' Rudolph as well, get a couple turnovers of our own. Pittcrap was lucky to beat the colts and got a bunch of questionable calls to beat the rams. That fumble recovery that wasn't reviewed for no reason was a joke

Agree. Sadly its nothing new with them. Being good is one thing, lucky and good is another thing. 

Pisses me off that "our QB becomes a runner and is therefore allowed to be hit in the head," for example, while several of Goodell's darlings get all the breaks. Ok, I'm getting fired up, time to put the coffee down lol.

GO BROWNS

[tiamat63]

23 hours ago, Ibleedbrown said:

Do tell. I know he got “lucky” on a couple passes, but luck is fickle like that and one could argue he was on the other side of lady luck earlier games in the season. Baker’s still gonna be gunslinger-like, so he’s gonna make some bad throws, but lessening those bad throws is what l feel like he’s done the last few games.

I'll respond to this post in detail later today.  Its been a busy 24 hours (sadly) 

[jrb12711]

I'm too lazy to do the relatively simple math, but it's hard to argue Baker has at least (statistically) looked stronger the past 3 weeks.

Something like 66% completion rate, 5 TD/1 INT ratio. Seems to be stronger in his reads and fitting into what the game plan should be-run the ball down their throat and supplement with quick out routes (which Baker feasted on with the Bills). 

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

Baker has stepped it up big time against 3 top 10 defenses since the bye week, but so has the play around him. 

The Offensive line played well against the Bills and has limited penalties in recent weeks. Which goes a long way. 

Imagine this offense when Njoku returns..
 

[jiggins7919]

9 hours ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

Baker has stepped it up big time against 3 top 10 defenses since the bye week, but so has the play around him. 

The Offensive line played well against the Bills and has limited penalties in recent weeks. Which goes a long way. 

Imagine this offense when Njoku returns..
 

I think the fact he's moved the ball well against major defenses is what's really impressive here, and something I maybe overlooked for a spell. Not too many QBs thrived against those teams, and I didn't exactly see Tom Brady lighting up the Bills. The problem is, we just can't get an effing BREAK right now. Lord knows we really needed the Bengals to come to town instead of the suddenly red hot effing Steelers and their defense that somehow scores every effing week. Still, gotta play who is on the schedule, so strap it on and get rowdy. 

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

16 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

Lord knows we really needed the Bengals to come to town instead of the suddenly red hot effing Steelers and their defense that somehow scores every effing week. 

I like playing the Steelers now coming off a big W. It’s at home and the team is relatively healthy.

I’m excited to see Kareem Hunt, playing in his first primetime rivalry game as a Brown. That can be said for most of this roster now that I think about it..

[Icecube]

On 11/11/2019 at 9:08 AM, Ibleedbrown said:

Good post. I was kinda thinking the same that Baker seems to be easing back into the guy we thought he was the last few games. Keep it up Baker.

Last week was his best game statistically. (102.7 QBR). Was it a case of a steady rise or just a blip? We will seen see, but lecturing the fans on how to behave at a game was a bit much. Take care of YOUR job before you lecture the fans. 

[tiamat63]

On 11/11/2019 at 9:12 AM, Ibleedbrown said:

Do tell. I know he got “lucky” on a couple passes, but luck is fickle like that and one could argue he was on the other side of lady luck earlier games in the season. Baker’s still gonna be gunslinger-like, so he’s gonna make some bad throws, but lessening those bad throws is what l feel like he’s done the last few games.

So I had a lovely additional tab open with youtube links and about a paragraph already typed up before I left this morning.  Looks like my computer locked up because I reset and chrome didn't save shit.   Apologies for the condensed response because this was going to be FAR more detailed at first.    Now I'm a bit time crunched as usual.   But In it I had time stamped examples of things I see to support my belief(s)... which boils down to the following.

- I believe Baker is missing quite a bit pre-snap.   This is a result of play calls not getting in on time, perhaps some new language, and game itself moving too fast for the young QB.   Sure, he may "see" things, but they don't register at the speed they should.  This is where I linked to box counts, split counts, and defensive shifts that have put the offense into positions the QB should be looking to avoid.    Remember the safety flying down on Chubb on 3rd and short?  Baker never saw it coming.       The 5th man off the edge this past weekend vs the Bills?  Baker never saw him.    Again, I can circle back around and say that it isn't all* on Baker.   At least, I would certainly hope not.  Because that would mean some of the problems are systemic and thus very fixable.  

- Baker still has a tendency to force things post-snap and isn't moving his eyes quick enough.    It's quintessential Farve in a sense.   The Seahawks game was another one where I had time stamps showing Baker missing WIDE OPEN, easy throws with a ton of YAC potential.  Instead he settled for what he read off rip and, while at times made the completion, other times forced the ball where it had zero business going.   That amazing catch by ODB near the sidelines?  Baker had a #2 receiver with 3 yards of separation just up and off to his right for 13 yards and the easy first down.      It reminds me of a throw he made vs the Eagles his rookie year.   I'll never forget it because, in my mind, gave a foreshadow to the QB I hope Baker isn't going to remain.   I've had this video bookmarked from my comments on Chubb starting last year  (go back and check, but I believe I mentioned that Chubb would fit much better with Hue engineering more zone runs for him...  fastforward and Chub has made my assessment look brilliant)

 

Go to 0:20 in that video.   That is against a pretty vanilla cover 3.   To that side the #1 is Higgy and the #2 is Njoku.     Baker saw the zone, had time to let the defender expand, eye'd the safety down the hash but... (here's the theme starting with the Texans game last year)  never checked the underneath defender(s).    He makes a great throw to Higgy on the sideline, and, yes - he got the 1st down.   But it was a throw that his coaches should have dinged him for.  It was, IMHO, turnover worthy.    Granted the line between those big throws and turnover worthy throws is razor thin at times.   But you already see that if Baker goes from CB to safety to underneath, his eyes would have taken him to (another theme you'll notice) a WIDE OPEN Njoku as the #2.     All Mayfield has to do is put the ball to David's inside shoulder and he could walk for another 5 yards.   Easy, effective and safe.

See, this is where the inherit gunslinger QB is revealed as both brilliant and flawed.     Baker made the throw and I won't attempt to bullshit that part. He put the sauce on it and did it with great placement for a big play.   But he DIDN'T have to.     Baker made this conversion much more difficult than it had to be.      Now sure, you can say that was his rookie year and such.    But there were a couple moments vs that similar vanilla cover 3 we just saw from Seattle where our QB did some of those familiar things I just pointed out to you.   And that in a nutshell highlights my concern re: a lack of "growth" and being at NFL speed mentally.

 

I find myself asking this question over the course of the last few weeks - Baker is statistically better than what he was when the season started... But is HE* really playing better?      Or is this the sum of reeling in our(young) turnover prone QB, running the offense through Chubb and attempting to emulate a dash of the offensive success we experienced starting the same time last year?

 

edit:  Also concern in my mind re: erratic footwork at times, the lack of pocket manipulation and reverting back to missing passes high/ball placement.

We'll see what happens tomorrow night.  But I'm not hoping on this "Baker's light is back on" train.  I don't believe in making snap judgements like that on most things.        And should Thursday be a god damn disaster, well, this thread is going to be worth a re-read.  

 

 

 

 

[calfoxwc]

the difference between Baker's play last year and this year, primarily, my opinion, is this year he doesn't have a rock solid interior offensive line.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/09/browns-offensive-line-had-baker-mayfield-scrambling-players-shuffling.html

Ogunjobi had to go in and play offensive line once. Come on. I know there are times when Baker had plenty of time...

but BAKER doesn't COUNT on that. He won't blame the oline, but the blocking is the engine. And the Browns' offensive line had some bad matchups this season.

Engine sputters often, don't blame the driver all the time, even when he does make a mistake.

[bjh2130]

57 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

Ogunjobi had to go in and play offensive line once.

On an extra point. That's like saying we play a 247 pound center on the offensive line because Charlie Hughlett is snapping the ball on punts and field goals. 

[ATOM]

I agree 

fewer penalties not turnover the ball maybe freddie has to

[jiggins7919]

Man, I don't know about you guys, but I'm nervous AF about this game, lol. I think it's because there's so much riding on it. If we win, we literally still have life. We'd be 4-6 with some legit easier games on the horizon. Sure, we'd have to beat them again in 2 weeks, but whatever. 

You know what I REALLY want to see? I want to see a freaking blowout victory. A start to finish BEATDOWN. No red zone issues, no sloppiness, and no drama. Just a home win for the good guys that's awesome to watch 

Hey, a brother can dream, right? 😂