Browns 3rd and 4th Downs

[jiggins7919]

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/11/the-browns-on-3rd-and-4th-down-how-theyre-tipping-off-opponents-and-why-obj-isnt-getting-the-ball-more-film-review.html

I thought this deserved its own thread.  Holy cow this is some sad stuff.  

[SdBacker80]

30 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/11/the-browns-on-3rd-and-4th-down-how-theyre-tipping-off-opponents-and-why-obj-isnt-getting-the-ball-more-film-review.html

I thought this deserved its own thread.  Holy cow this is some sad stuff.  

Chubb should have taken the carry on third down and on 4th down.  If Chubb can’t get 3 yards on two carries you load the plane and go home.  Instead You put the ball in the hands In arguably our 4th and last ranked ball carrier.  Hell OBJ or Landry on an end around on third down was fine too. 

I have nothing against Dontrell Hilliard but he barely made the team for a reason. 

[The Gipper]

Poor coaching and decision making.  

Same old mantra.

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

Nothing that hasn’t been discussed for 2 days after the game.
On that last play, it looks like the pocket is barely holding up. Doesn’t look like a good place to try and read the field from.

[jiggins7919]

He had two options right away, 3 including a risky throw to OBJ. He patted the ball and missed them all. He's not trusting himself. 

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

2 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

He had two options right away, 3 including a risky throw to OBJ. He patted the ball and missed them all. He's not trusting himself. 

It seems Baker trusts Landry SO much due to Landry’s reliability and the connection they’ve established..

I believe if they called that same play on 3rd and 1 and he most likely throws it to Odell. If the defense had Odell doubled up then somebody else would’ve had 1on1. Learning experience I hope.

There’s a real psychology and logic to playcalling and it’s not mastered at this point in time.

I look forward to the time when Mayfield can audible into passes when the run game isn’t working, and isn’t a good idea.

[jiggins7919]

1 hour ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

It seems Baker trusts Landry SO much due to Landry’s reliability and the connection they’ve established..

I believe if they called that same play on 3rd and 1 and he most likely throws it to Odell. If the defense had Odell doubled up then somebody else would’ve had 1on1. Learning experience I hope.

There’s a real psychology and logic to playcalling and it’s not mastered at this point in time.

I look forward to the time when Mayfield can audible into passes when the run game isn’t working, and isn’t a good idea.

As do I, as do I. 

Something else a few articles have harped on is how Baker is struggling with the RPO. He's passing when he should hand it off, and handing it off when the lanes aren't there. This is something I don't understand because he was so good at it last year. 

The more I think about things, the more I'm simply astounded at how bad they are and just how they NEVER go our way. I keep going back to the sneak on 4th down. That just encapsulates our entire season for so many reasons. He GOT the first down, and when I watched it live it wasn't even close! The ref literally ran backwards to spot the ball and I've never seen it before. And naturally there wasn't a conclusive camera angle. THAT is our season, and it's hard to explain and harder to watch. 

Ya know, one of the plays the 49's like to run is a play-action bootleg, and it seems like whenever they run this scheme, they have a guy running WIDE OPEN to the sideline. They stagger receivers in various depths and Garoppolo is adept at hitting these targets. Do we ever try any type of bootlegs? Wouldn't that be a good idea when you have Chubb and good receivers? 

[jiggins7919]

Btw, OBJ ranks 126th in red zone targets. Just heard that from Jim Donovan. 

I'm going to throw up now! 

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

I just don’t think the PA bootleg game is safe due to how badly the offensive line has been out matched. But I would rather see that than any more plays wasted on a trick play. After Todd Haley I figured Kitchens wouldn’t be a trick play kind of guy..

Quick shotgun PAs instead of relying on RPOs may help out. 

[jiggins7919]

12 hours ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

Quick shotgun PAs instead of relying on RPOs may help out. 

Yeah, you could be right.  I think what hurts is that these RPO's used to be highly successful for us, so it's difficult to understand why that's changed.  Teams are definitely sitting on those slants after the RPO (Baltimore pick comes to mind), but it's curious as to why Baker isn't making the same reads he made last year.  

To be honest, we DID do a bunch of short passes last game, and they DID work.  I mean,  we moved the ball up and down the field against a very good defense, and we had 7 drives that got at least to their 30 yard line.  Like we've talked about before, the short passes don't work as well in the red zone because of how condensed the field is.  The ONLY problem I had with the short passing game is we didn't use it to set up the LONG passing game.  We didn't take ONE shot at the end zone in ANY of those 7 drives that got to the 30.  Yes, we took a shot to Harris once we got to the 9 yard line, but we didn't take any of those semi-deep shots that could score.  That's EXACTLY what our offense is missing, ya know?  The ability to STRIKE for points.  A great example of what I'm talking about is the Seals-Jones TD against the Seahawks.  We're around their 30 yard line, Baker makes a dime of a pass to a deep route and we score.  We need to try THOSE more.  Get Landry involved in the seam, OBJ on the outside, WHATEVER.  But...be more aggressive when we get to the plus side of the field.

[calfoxwc]

On 11/6/2019 at 9:23 AM, jiggins7919 said:

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/11/the-browns-on-3rd-and-4th-down-how-theyre-tipping-off-opponents-and-why-obj-isnt-getting-the-ball-more-film-review.html

I thought this deserved its own thread.  Holy cow this is some sad stuff.  

  Actually, it's some excellent stuff. I've said a few things, and it probably wasn't the first time someone said it somewhere.

If we are seeing it, ...come on, Kitchens. In a game of complicated chess, it seems Kitchens, who I support 100%, seemingly thinks that switching to checkers to protect his oline isn't working. It isn't fooling defenses. The "tells" are there. Maybe the worst was taking Chubb out on the qb sneak. First year head coaches make these mistakes. Learn from them fast, Kitchens.

[jiggins7919]

2 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

  Actually, it's some excellent stuff. I've said a few things, and it probably wasn't the first time someone said it somewhere.

If we are seeing it, ...come on, Kitchens. In a game of complicated chess, it seems Kitchens, who I support 100%, seemingly thinks that switching to checkers to protect his oline isn't working. It isn't fooling defenses. The "tells" are there. Maybe the worst was taking Chubb out on the qb sneak. First year head coaches make these mistakes. Learn from them fast, Kitchens.

Well, that's just the thing. He appears to make repeating mistakes and also mistakes that he probably shouldn't make in the first place. Things like the 4th and 9 draw play come to mind, and it conjures up memories of Hue Jackson saying, "It would've been good if it worked." Or in the same game, calling 4 straight pass plays with the game on the line (to be fair, two of the plays had people open, Baker didn't find them, as the story goes).

I realize Njoku out really hurts. Baker had a terrific fade route with him going, and sometimes that's all it takes when you're knocking on the door. How many effing times have we tried to go to Harris? 10? 12? 

But the thing that's tough to nail down is, "Where has all the magic gone?" Remember against the Panthers and we ran that inside handoff near the goal line? Then ran it again on a huge 3rd or 4th down that resulted in a 40 yard gain? So many times we'll get to 10 yard line and I'm thinking, "Just kick the FG and get it out of the way." The not so funny thing is, I was SCREAMING to kick the FG last game on the failed 4th down. In a game where points were a premium and you're facing a backup QB, FG's could've won the game. I didn't understand going for it there, and I guess it's a moot point now. 

[Tour2ma]

On 11/6/2019 at 8:23 AM, jiggins7919 said:

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/11/the-browns-on-3rd-and-4th-down-how-theyre-tipping-off-opponents-and-why-obj-isnt-getting-the-ball-more-film-review.html

I thought this deserved its own thread.  Holy cow this is some sad stuff.  

Had mentioned our "tendencies" in another thread...

Maybe Freddie will read this.

[jiggins7919]

2 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Had mentioned our "tendencies" in another thread...

Maybe Freddie will read this.

I guess the frustrating thing is we were so very close to breaking out. 7 out of 10 drives getting into 30+ yard territory is phenomenal. One effing TD? That's embarrassing as heck. We were so close to really busting out last week. It makes you wonder if we're really on the verge, or if what you see is what you get. Even though our season is effectively toast, getting back on track could really do wonders, and while I feel like Buffalo is the worst type of team for us to face, we can still get hot if we execute red zone much better. 

[TexasAg1969]

10 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

I guess the frustrating thing is we were so very close to breaking out. 7 out of 10 drives getting into 30+ yard territory is phenomenal. One effing TD? That's embarrassing as heck. We were so close to really busting out last week. It makes you wonder if we're really on the verge, or if what you see is what you get. Even though our season is effectively toast, getting back on track could really do wonders, and while I feel like Buffalo is the worst type of team for us to face, we can still get hot if we execute red zone much better. 

Buffalo is the 3rd best scoring defense in the NFL. NE and SF are the top and Denver was about 2.5 pts/game worse than Buff. Either we have been up against a lot of tough defenses or we're so bad we skewed their scoring D stats.

[ATOM]

On 11/6/2019 at 3:26 PM, jiggins7919 said:

Btw, OBJ ranks 126th in red zone targets. Just heard that from Jim Donovan. 

I'm going to throw up now! 

calloway has more targets even after missing the first 4 games