Daniel Jones vs Baker

[crunchy]

Media loves Daniel Jones, hates Mayfield. Baker has been inconsistent this year, but gets no benefit of the doubt i.e. first year head coach, no o.t.a.s with OBJ, playing Pats and 49ers away, many questionable calls against like the 4th down first down not given. 

Yet Jones has largely been crap, his only two wins are against teams with a combined 3-14 record, he turns it over a ton, but the media never points out that he sucks chode. It's just like how the media never pointed out that Eli sucked, they'd only say, well, he won 2 super bowls, he's a hall of famer. They always seem to love the Giants QB, even when they blow (Phil Simms anyone?) 

[jiggins7919]

Lemme tell you something. The media will largely give rookie QBs a break. Baker set the effing rookie TD record last year and didn't even play in every game. This year, Baker is absolutely terrified to make a mistake, doesn't throw the ball down the field, and seemingly makes every wrong read during important scenarios. Take this stat for example:  Baker only threw ONE pass that traveled 20 yards or more in the air last game. Let that sink in a bit. 

Baker won't get the benefit of the doubt. He's already proven that he can throw TD passes. Why is everything going wrong NOW? No clue. 

[nickers]

3 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

Lemme tell you something. The media will largely give rookie QBs a break. Baker set the effing rookie TD record last year and didn't even play in every game. This year, Baker is absolutely terrified to make a mistake, doesn't throw the ball down the field, and seemingly makes every wrong read during important scenarios. Take this stat for example:  Baker only threw ONE pass that traveled 20 yards or more in the air last game. Let that sink in a bit. 

Baker won't get the benefit of the doubt. He's already proven that he can throw TD passes. Why is everything going wrong NOW? No clue. 

Because Freddie is hand cuffing him...

[Dutch Oven]

The offense is in shambles and the NFL has a book on Baker, and he's done nothing to counter punch that. 

[mjp28]

The NYG Daniel Jones I'm watching is fairly relaxed didn't have playoff and Superbowl expectations and countless TV commercials on during every game.

"To those who much is given, much is expected."

[crunchy]

I think the media chooses who they like and don't like and they stick to it. I'm watching the MNF game and they praised Jones for doing a good slide at the end of the game 😂

The media decided they loved Tebow even though it looked like he was throwing sofa cushions and Eli even when he threw 20+ picks every year and Fatberger even though he's a rapist team cancer. And they crapped on Romo his whole career even though he had a winning record, good stats, and was a good guy by all accounts. 

I agree, the offense is in shambles, but I blame Freddie's play calling, especially in the red zone. They've gotten down there against every team and can't finish. If they could they would've beat Denver, Seattle, and at least tied the Rams

[mjp28]

3 minutes ago, crunchy said:

I think the media chooses who they like and don't like and they stick to it. I'm watching the MNF game and they praised Jones for doing a good slide at the end of the game 😂

The media decided they loved Tebow even though it looked like he was throwing sofa cushions and Eli even when he threw 20+ picks every year and Fatberger even though he's a rapist team cancer. And they crapped on Romo his whole career even though he had a winning record, good stats, and was a good guy by all accounts. 

I agree, the offense is in shambles, but I blame Freddie's play calling, especially in the red zone. They've gotten down there against every team and can't finish. If they could they would've beat Denver, Seattle, and at least tied the Rams

That was for a first down, smart move drive still on.

[calfoxwc]

2 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

Lemme tell you something. The media will largely give rookie QBs a break. Baker set the effing rookie TD record last year and didn't even play in every game. This year, Baker is absolutely terrified to make a mistake, doesn't throw the ball down the field, and seemingly makes every wrong read during important scenarios. Take this stat for example:  Baker only threw ONE pass that traveled 20 yards or more in the air last game. Let that sink in a bit. 

Baker won't get the benefit of the doubt. He's already proven that he can throw TD passes. Why is everything going wrong NOW? No clue.  

Last year, Bitonio, Tretter and Zeitler formed an outstanding core of the oline. The fa RT mostly? held his own, struggled at times.

Keeping an eye on the blind side was far easier.

Now, Baker has LT failing, ROG failing, and RT still trying to hang in there, not failing, or not often? Baker's pocket, which did exist last year dependably, is most gone. And yes, Baker has had time to throw at times, but not knowing when those times will be - he's lost confidence in their ability to block for plays as a whole.

Some great qb's fall apart in their game when the oline does south. I've seen Peyton Manning get run over, and throw 4 ints in a playoff game back in the day.... and watching the defense look in despair at the failures of the offense...and bad calls by refs...

     It takes the confidence and just ruins it, that's just my goofy guess about it all.

[hoorta]

2 hours ago, crunchy said:

Media loves Daniel Jones, hates Mayfield. Baker has been inconsistent this year, but gets no benefit of the doubt i.e. first year head coach, no o.t.a.s with OBJ, playing Pats and 49ers away, many questionable calls against like the 4th down first down not given. 

Yet Jones has largely been crap, his only two wins are against teams with a combined 3-14 record, he turns it over a ton, but the media never points out that he sucks chode. It's just like how the media never pointed out that Eli sucked, they'd only say, well, he won 2 super bowls, he's a hall of famer. They always seem to love the Giants QB, even when they blow (Phil Simms anyone?) 

I watched some of the Giants Cowboys game, and I can see why Jones is "the Great White Hope" in NYC. but he hasn't had the opportunity to screw up for a season and a half yet. I'll opine a lot of the media hates Baker because of his brashness- everything Jones is not personality wise. The only thing DJ has over Baker is a better TD int ratio, and he wouldn't if so many of Baker's passes have turned into tip ball interceptions. 

I'll add in, (since I just perused the stats) Mayfield is statistically superior to Sam Darnold in every category, and I haven't heard much booing (though I don't follow NY media) and you don't see the media piling on Sam- even though the Jets just lost to the tanking Dolphins. 

[mjp28]

6 hours ago, hoorta said:

I watched some of the Giants Cowboys game, and I can see why Jones is "the Great White Hope" in NYC. but he hasn't had the opportunity to screw up for a season and a half yet. I'll opine a lot of the media hates Baker because of his brashness- everything Jones is not personality wise. The only thing DJ has over Baker is a better TD int ratio, and he wouldn't if so many of Baker's passes have turned into tip ball interceptions. 

I'll add in, (since I just perused the stats) Mayfield is statistically superior to Sam Darnold in every category, and I haven't heard much booing (though I don't follow NY media) and you don't see the media piling on Sam- even though the Jets just lost to the tanking Dolphins. 

How true!  And how often do we see the new kid with the nice story comes along and for a while it's a good story until something else happens and he can't really walk on water.

Happens a lot.

Remember that great athlete Michael J Jordan who wanted to explore his childhood fantasy of playing in the MLB?  ALL went well with a great story, minor leagues with a big new bus, sold out stadiums, manager Terry Franconia was there the works then *pop*.  Yes even the greatest MJ can't hit a MLB curve ball. And #23 becomes #45.

Morale of the story -  patience  -and-. even Jesus Christ can't hit a curve ball.   -MAJOR LEAGUES, best sports movie ever!

 

[jiggins7919]

8 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

It takes the confidence and just ruins it, that's just my goofy guess about it all.

That’s just it, you completely nailed.  Right now, it’s ALL about confidence…or rather…a lack thereof. 

Like I said earlier, Baker only threw ONE pass that traveled through the air longer than 20 yards.  Furthermore, he only threw SEVEN that traveled more than 10 yards down the field.  Do you realize how preposterous that is?  (source:  Browns Daily). 

And I don’t want people to go blaming Freddie for this because Baker’s failure to extend the field is not his fault.  Freddie has PLENTY of blame going his way, and rightfully so, but Freddie can’t throw the ball for Baker.  Freddie can’t give OBJ a chance on that long ball when it’s 4^th and 4. 

So what’s the problem?  Well, it’s exactly what you said…confidence.  Baker has a ton of interceptions, several not his fault, but that doesn’t mean they haven’t completely shaken his confidence to the core.  You can visually see he’s not the same guy, and blaming the OL is a total copout.  Greg Robinson gave up a sack, but Baker still had over 4 seconds to throw the ball.  That’s either a coverage sack, or Baker didn’t pull the trigger. 

What I don’t understand, and what NOBODY understands, is why the FREAK aren’t we targeting OBJ more, especially in the red zone?  Through 8 games of the season, Browns Daily said OBJ was red zone targeted only five times.  What…the…freaking…freak. 

Our offense has ZERO explosiveness.  Zero big play ability.  We literally throw the majority of our passes to the sidelines in the 5-8 yard range, and that’s FINE if you’re trying to move the ball down the field, but the PROBLEM with that comes in the damn red zone.  When the field is compressed, you generally can’t make those kind of throws because people are guarded so closely and there’s nowhere to run.  Heck, look at the one touchdown we DID score!  It was a 5 yard pass to Landry on the damn sideline and the ONLY reason it was a touchdown was because somebody missed a relatively simple tackle. 

How do we fix this?  Well, if you’re having red zone difficulty, one answer is to score BEFORE you get to the damn red zone.  We had SEVEN DRIVES OUT OF TEN that got to Denver’s 30 yard line or better.  Seven!  I would like for you guys to guess how many “deep shots” we took to the end zone?  That’s right, we didn’t take ANY shots at the end zone from the 30.  None out of seven drives!!  If you’re having trouble scoring from up close, wouldn’t you want to at least TRY a deep seam pass?  An OBJ double move?

I just can’t right now.  We won the turnover battle.  We only committed around 5 penalties.  We ran 30 more plays than they did.  We had way more first downs and tons more time of possession.  We lost. 

[crunchy]

1 hour ago, jiggins7919 said:

That’s just it, you completely nailed.  Right now, it’s ALL about confidence…or rather…a lack thereof. 

Like I said earlier, Baker only threw ONE pass that traveled through the air longer than 20 yards.  Furthermore, he only threw SEVEN that traveled more than 10 yards down the field.  Do you realize how preposterous that is?  (source:  Browns Daily). 

And I don’t want people to go blaming Freddie for this because Baker’s failure to extend the field is not his fault.  Freddie has PLENTY of blame going his way, and rightfully so, but Freddie can’t throw the ball for Baker.  Freddie can’t give OBJ a chance on that long ball when it’s 4^th and 4. 

So what’s the problem?  Well, it’s exactly what you said…confidence.  Baker has a ton of interceptions, several not his fault, but that doesn’t mean they haven’t completely shaken his confidence to the core.  You can visually see he’s not the same guy, and blaming the OL is a total copout.  Greg Robinson gave up a sack, but Baker still had over 4 seconds to throw the ball.  That’s either a coverage sack, or Baker didn’t pull the trigger. 

What I don’t understand, and what NOBODY understands, is why the FREAK aren’t we targeting OBJ more, especially in the red zone?  Through 8 games of the season, Browns Daily said OBJ was red zone targeted only five times.  What…the…freaking…freak. 

Our offense has ZERO explosiveness.  Zero big play ability.  We literally throw the majority of our passes to the sidelines in the 5-8 yard range, and that’s FINE if you’re trying to move the ball down the field, but the PROBLEM with that comes in the damn red zone.  When the field is compressed, you generally can’t make those kind of throws because people are guarded so closely and there’s nowhere to run.  Heck, look at the one touchdown we DID score!  It was a 5 yard pass to Landry on the damn sideline and the ONLY reason it was a touchdown was because somebody missed a relatively simple tackle. 

How do we fix this?  Well, if you’re having red zone difficulty, one answer is to score BEFORE you get to the damn red zone.  We had SEVEN DRIVES OUT OF TEN that got to Denver’s 30 yard line or better.  Seven!  I would like for you guys to guess how many “deep shots” we took to the end zone?  That’s right, we didn’t take ANY shots at the end zone from the 30.  None out of seven drives!!  If you’re having trouble scoring from up close, wouldn’t you want to at least TRY a deep seam pass?  An OBJ double move?

I just can’t right now.  We won the turnover battle.  We only committed around 5 penalties.  We ran 30 more plays than they did.  We had way more first downs and tons more time of possession.  We lost. 

You're a-1 right, we need more deep shots to OBJ, let him make a play on it, he's the best in the league when he's on his game. 

And when we're in the red zone, we need to pound Chubb. Hunt will help with that too. Losing Njoku really hurt our red zone ability too, he was a big target that demanded attention. 

The Pats dink and dunk down the field, but when they get in the red zone they mostly pound it in or they used to throw it to Gronk. Our small wrs are no good down there unless you can fool the d, which Freddie hasn't been able to do 

[bjh2130]

13 hours ago, nickers said:

Because Freddie is hand cuffing him...

Hold up early in the year we were bitching about the play calls where everyone was just running 9 routes (go routes, streaks, fly, whatever you want to call them) now Freddie is handcuffing Baker? Was it Freddie who threw a 8 yard sideline pass to harris on a scramble when 30 yards directly behind him in line of sight was Calloway standing wide open in the endzone. Was it Freddie who didn't recognize presnap or postsnap OBJ had no safety help over the top and a double move that beat Harris on 4th and 4? That play where he missed Callaway was the exact play we loved from Baker last year that you see in nextgen commercials where it only had a 13.6% (or whatever)  of being completed.

Freddie most definitely is failing at things (some would say many things) but don't act like Freddie is the sole reason Baker is not playing well. Baker is in head and just not seeing the field.  Speaking of Baker why in the world is he thinking "this will be funny" and coming out with 3 different facial hairstyles on gameday? Focus on the damn game. Instead he comes out to pregame and with full beard goatee and mustache to play the game and just a mustache for post game press conferences.  Quit trying to be funny and play some fucking good football. 

 

Also to the person who said zampese was calling plays last year. He wasn't.  That's just flat out a lie.  Did he maybe implement game plans or design all the plays? Could be I don't know. Freddie was definitely the one calling in the plays on gameday. By the way no one designing plays is reinventing the wheel. Many of the route concepts we see today are the same route concepts we saw last year and the year before that.

[hoorta]

53 minutes ago, bjh2130 said:

Also to the person who said zampese was calling plays last year. He wasn't.  That's just flat out a lie.  Did he maybe implement game plans or design all the plays? Could be I don't know. Freddie was definitely the one calling in the plays on gameday. By the way no one designing plays is reinventing the wheel. Many of the route concepts we see today are the same route concepts we saw last year and the year before that.

Yup- and for whatever reason Baker is spooked to throw the ball deep. It was pointed out in the Broncos game he didn't try a pass that was longer than 20 yards. He missed at least a couple long plays where all he had to do was get the ball to OBJ or Landry and they were easy scores. 

[nickers]

5 hours ago, bjh2130 said:

Hold up early in the year we were bitching about the play calls where everyone was just running 9 routes (go routes, streaks, fly, whatever you want to call them) now Freddie is handcuffing Baker? Was it Freddie who threw a 8 yard sideline pass to harris on a scramble when 30 yards directly behind him in line of sight was Calloway standing wide open in the endzone. Was it Freddie who didn't recognize presnap or postsnap OBJ had no safety help over the top and a double move that beat Harris on 4th and 4? That play where he missed Callaway was the exact play we loved from Baker last year that you see in nextgen commercials where it only had a 13.6% (or whatever)  of being completed.

Freddie most definitely is failing at things (some would say many things) but don't act like Freddie is the sole reason Baker is not playing well. Baker is in head and just not seeing the field.  Speaking of Baker why in the world is he thinking "this will be funny" and coming out with 3 different facial hairstyles on gameday? Focus on the damn game. Instead he comes out to pregame and with full beard goatee and mustache to play the game and just a mustache for post game press conferences.  Quit trying to be funny and play some fucking good football. 

 

Also to the person who said zampese was calling plays last year. He wasn't.  That's just flat out a lie.  Did he maybe implement game plans or design all the plays? Could be I don't know. Freddie was definitely the one calling in the plays on gameday. By the way no one designing plays is reinventing the wheel. Many of the route concepts we see today are the same route concepts we saw last year and the year before that.

Well something isn't right with either Freddie or Baker... I don't think all of Bakers problems are entirely his.. Some of it I think is systemic.. Some of his own doing.. And his WR's not catching (OBJ) everything like they should. I'm not saying Freddie is the sole reason.. But he certainly hasn't helped any... so don't act like it's all Bakers fault... You're erroneous for thinking that it is!