Oline Analysis: the Seahawks game

[Ibleedbrown]

Doing this again. I broke down the first half of the Seahawks game, primarily the Oline performance and other players who blocked. There is a key and a half assed grading system. I worked right to left on all plays.

The key is the key: H = Hubbard, K = Kush, T = Tretter, B = Bitonio, R = Robinson. Other players show up with numbers. 86 = Brown,   88 = Harris, 25 = Hilliard, 24 = Chubb, 67 = McCray, 80 - Landry, OBJ = himself. 

Grading system

 - means l felt the player did ok that play. They did what they were asked to do on the play and were effective.

 + means l felt the player did above and beyond just good on the play. Maybe blocked a couple dudes, maybe laid an exceptional block. Maybe made an athletic move to pick up a delayed blitzer. Things like that. 

£ means the player did a poor job at doing what was expected during the play and they were a weight on the team.

Plays will be noted much like Tour used to. S = series, P = plays. So S1P3 is series one play 3. Notes and side bars are included.

S1P1: defense offsides: H -, K -, T -, B -, R - his man jumped offsides and he did what he could with that.

S1P2: Chubb run: 80 -, H -, K - pulled left, T -, B - also pulled left with a mucho effective block, R - good stonewall, 88 - bent but didn’t break, 86 + decent point of attack block to his side where the run went. In the play he passed a guy off to Kush and executed a good upfield block.

S1P3: complete to 86: H -, K -, T -, B -, R -

S1P4: Chubb TD run: 80 -, H - both he and Landry sorta crossed each other up going for the same guy but luckily the play went away from their side, K - pulled left and key block, T -, B - he spends the play doubling guys with Robinson and then Tretter, and then a push assist on Robinson to get him to the second level, R - does ok here but missed his man at the second level, 86 - Pharoah can block a bit, OBJ - had the other key hockey check block to allow Chubb to coast into the EZ.

S2P1: Chubb run: H - for some reason Baker felt inclined to lay a block on H’s guy, K -, T -, B - Chubb is being conditioned to see 75’s back and go that way, R - got knocked down by the guy Bitonio was blocking.

S2P2: Calloway 1st down reception: H -, K -, T -, B -, R -

S2P3: Chubb catch: H £ he got power rushed and bent and finally broke and his guy got pressure, K - got power rushed too but held up well enough, T -, B -  I feel like every time l see Bitonio and Tretter double team the same guy that it’s wasted fire power, R -

S2P4: OBJ 1st down reception: H £ got beat and looks like he got away with a hold, K -, T -, B -, R -. Note: thank goodness it was a quick pass play.

S2P5: Landry reception: TE -, H -, K £ he got swim moved past. Luckily it was another quick pass play, T + flung his guy aside like a doll, B - had a Bito assist with Tretter’s fling, R -

S2P6: Incomplete to Callaway: H - nice timing on the kick step, K -, T -, B + with the bailout block on Robinson’s guy, R - barely, his guy got inside of him even with Chubb outside to help. Another thank goodness it was a quick pass play. 

S2P7: OBJ drop: H - barely, if not a quick pass play would have gotten beat outside, K - had his hands full, T - notable because he recognizes where the pressure is coming from early and does a wingspan move to direct traffic around him and gets sucked under the pressure as a result, but did his part to keep Baker clean, B -, R -, 24 -  picked up the guy between Robinson and Bito. 

S2P8: Landry reception: H -, K - both he and Hubbard pin-balled a guy, chucking him 3 times a piece, T -, B -, R £ he just sorta decided for himself that he had blocked long enough during the play, so he just stopped blocking and let his guy go for a chuck on Baker. He pushed that guy back 2 times and didn’t bother trying a third, and that guy got to hit our QB. This is exactly the kind of play l would point to and say fuck Greg Robinson. 

S2P9: Chubb run: 83 - fine block,H -, K - pushed back but recovered, T -, B + chip and next level block and ate that guy alive, R £ blew it, got quickly shed and his man made the tackle. At least he tried to catch Chubb as he was falling to the ground.

S2P10: Baker TD run: H -, K -, T -, B - a man-handler among men, ended up making the key block for Baker’s run, R - judo blocked well, using the rushers’ momentum against him.

S3P1: OBJ reception: 86 - almost got rag dolled but righted himself before the Chubb assist, H -, K -, T -, B -, R - barely, would like to see Robinson dictate the tone of the play instead of just react all the time.

S3P2: long Chubb run: TE (86 or 88?) + did a helluva job squirming his way to block one guy and obscuring view of another, key block, H - made the other key block, K - solid drive block, T - pulled left, B -, R - it looked like the play design had him ignoring the guy he probably shoulda blocked. Something was messed up with that play, 83 - well done SJ

S3P3: SJ TD reception: H -, K -, T - l think l see Tretter handling the bullrush a bit better this year, B -, R -, 86 - stout enough

S4P1: Chubb run: 83 -, H -, K £ got driven back and disrupted the play, T -, B -, R £ I think he blocked the wrong guy here as the guy he chose not to block was all over Chubb. If it’s an inside run then block the guys coming from the inside and not the guy outside from him.

S4P2: Incomplete to Callaway: H -, K -, T - steamrolled into but held up, B -, R -

S4P3: Incomplete to OBJ: H - good first step, K - he kinda got picked into the guy Hubbard was blocking, T -, B - more double teaming with Tretter, R -. Punt...

S5P1: SJ reception: H -, K -, T -, B -, R -.

S5P2: OBJ reception: H -, K -, T £ a rare misplay, his man beat him and he borderline had to hold him to keep Baker clean, B - he started the play with no one to block but moved to help Tretter when he saw him break down, but l woulda liked to see him pick up the guy Robinson whiffed on, R £ he got one moved aside, pitiful, 24 - showing Robinson how to properly block. 

S5P3: Incomplete to OBJ: 83 - well done SJ, H £ kinda sucked this play and didn’t get to his man in time, K -, T -, B - pulled with nowhere to go, R -.

S5P4: Int: H - he did ok here but l woulda liked to have seen him pick up the guy coming off the edge instead of Kush, K - got sandwiched on the play trying to get to his guy, almost looked like he was supposed to pull on the play but forgot, T -, B -, R -.

S6P1: OBJ reception: H -, K -, T -, B -, R -. Note: misdirection PAP play looked good. 

S6P2: Chubb run: H - tried a chip and release play but looked bad on his next level block, but no effect on the play, K £ even with Hubbard’s chip help he got off balance against his guy and that guy made the tackle, T -barely,  a stumbling Kush basically fell into Tretter’s guy and took him out of the play, B -, R -, 86 - Pharoah dabbling as a fullback, would have liked to see Chubb follow him here but he didn’t. Note: l think in general our tackles are not so good executing second level blocks.

S6P3: Chubb run: 86 + he basically blocked 3 guys during the play, 88 £ I think he flubbed his initial block and was supposed to maintain it longer than he did, H - did ok but would have liked to see him give up less ground here, K - pulled right, T -, B - pulled right and picked up the guy 88 didn’t block long enough, R - barely, his guy recognized the play going away from his side so dodged Robinson’s block attempt, but Rob stuck with him and did have sn impact walling off a lane for Chubb, 80 - respectable block. Note: helluva strong run by Chubb.

S6P4: QB sneak: the camera view came in late from a replay so tough to break down who did what, but Baker got the first down so l assume they did well enough.

S6P5: Incomplete to OBJ: H -, K -, T -, B -, R - barely, he started breaking down but thankfully Bito got in the way and thankfully a quick pass play - a refrain this game.

S6P6: Chubb run: H -, K -, T -, B + blocked 2 dudes, held off his first guy long enough and then released to provide a key block against another dude, R - l guess he did ok here, he chucked one guy and then spent the rest of the play looking for someone else to block to no avail, 88 -.

S6P7: Callaway reception: H + chucked his guy to the ground and then chucked him 2 more times when he got back up, no quit, K -, T -, B -, R - did ok here steering a shoulder dipping pass rusher.

S6P8: Chubb run: 88 £ acted like a pulling lineman going left but whiffed on a key block opportunity, 67 - McCray did well here, H -, K - locked horns until tripping over  Robinson who fell down during the play, T -, B + did well here, squeezed through the scrum to find a next level block and thoroughly blocked that guy, R - fell down against the guy Bito shot past but at least took the guy down with him.

S6P9: Int: 67 -, H £ got pushed back like a bitch, K £ he kinda sucked this play too, he and Hubbard tried to double team the same rusher but he beat them both splitting them, T -, B -, R -.

S7P1: OBJ reception: H -, K -, T -, B -, R -.

S7 P2: Hilliard reception: H -, K -, T -, B + for picking up Robinson’s guy, R £ he shoulder checked the DE and then fell down, Bito saved him here.

S7P3: Incomplete to SJ: H -, K - he and Hubbard did a nice job picking up criss crossing rushers, jump jump, T - woulda liked to see him pick up the A gap rusher that Hilliard picked up, but pretty sure the play design called for him to seal off the left side, B -, R + did well here, started off doubling a guy with Bito and then picked up another guy coming off the edge, 25 £ no bueno block on the A gap rusher.

S7P4: Hail mary incompletion: H - did ok here but relied on the double team block more than l would like to see, K -, T -, B -, R - barely.

And that’s it for the first half, whew. A few notes. Pharoah Brown really popped for me this game. I’d look for him to start taking snaps away from Harris as l think he can do anything Harris does but maybe better. Robinson continues to strike me as the guy to be replaced on the line. I would very much like to see an upgrade at LT next year.

[jiggins7919]

11 hours ago, Ibleedbrown said:

And that’s it for the first half, whew. A few notes. Pharoah Brown really popped for me this game. I’d look for him to start taking snaps away from Harris as l think he can do anything Harris does but maybe better. Robinson continues to strike me as the guy to be replaced on the line. I would very much like to see an upgrade at LT next year.

Man, well done. You put a lot of effort into this and I love it! 

OK, so you're mostly right about Robinson, but the problem is that RT's don't grow on trees. Robinson isn't a worst LT in the league, but he's also far from the best. So anyone you try to replace him with is probably not going to be better. The one thing I'll say is that we can replace him with someone else who isn't as good IF the new person doesn't get the PENALTIES. That's what is killing Greg Robinson, and our coaching staff really was livid after that last Seattle holding call that essentially lost the game. 

We're NOT going to get Trent Williams, we just can't. Why? MONEY. We have to pay a BUNCH of people, and we have to do it right now. Schobert, Tretter, Garrett, Mayfield, etc. That's a ton of cash, and if you add a premier LT salary into the mix, things get dicey. 

I just re-watched the game, and Robinson appeared to be pretty decent. Not perfect, but he certainly wasn't whipped or anything. I'm curious, do you know where to get some grading scores? I'd be curious to see how he did via technical scoring. 

[jiggins7919]

https://www-cleveland-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/10/grading-the-browns-offensive-line-a-unit-in-flux-and-searching-for-answers.html?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&outputType=amp&usqp=mq331AQCKAE%3D#aoh=15714928758922&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cleveland.com%2Fbrowns%2F2019%2F10%2Fgrading-the-browns-offensive-line-a-unit-in-flux-and-searching-for-answers.html

[Tour2ma]

14 hours ago, Ibleedbrown said:

And that’s it for the first half, whew. A few notes.

lol... this kind of depth is a labor of love, isn't it?

... but the understanding you gain plus the "other" stuff you see can make it worthwhile.

Nice job...

 

[Icecube]

15 hours ago, Ibleedbrown said:

And that’s it for the first half, whew. A few notes. Pharoah Brown really popped for me this game. I’d look for him to start taking snaps away from Harris as l think he can do anything Harris does but maybe better. Robinson continues to strike me as the guy to be replaced on the line. I would very much like to see an upgrade at LT next year.

You're an animal. Wow. And I think it's safe to say they will be going for a LT either in free agency, the draft, or both. 

[nickers]

I really think Oline and LB should be the focus of next draft!

[jiggins7919]

1 hour ago, nickers said:

I really think Oline and LB should be the focus of next draft!

We need a "thumper" linebacker. Someone who brings the pain. 

[Dutch Oven]

1 hour ago, nickers said:

I really think Oline and LB should be the focus of next draft!

I agree...

I wouldn't mind TE and DT being a priority too. 

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, nickers said:

I really think Oline and LB should be the focus of next draft!

But, correct me if I am wrong about the LBs....they are barely using either Avery or Takitaki, aren't they?  Shouldn't we see what they got?

[Icecube]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

I agree...

I wouldn't mind TE and DT being a priority too. 

On a side, I never understand why the media gives over-glowing comments on Njoke as being so super talented. What has he ever done to constantly being described as such a great player? I mean, when healthy he isn't a bad player, but I don't get why so many refer to him as "super talented." He had 4 TDs all season last year. That's not exactly earth-shattering. So far he is way more potential than he is production. And after a few years of being more potential than production...well.............

[Ibleedbrown]

7 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

Man, well done. You put a lot of effort into this and I love it! 

OK, so you're mostly right about Robinson, but the problem is that RT's don't grow on trees. Robinson isn't a worst LT in the league, but he's also far from the best. So anyone you try to replace him with is probably not going to be better. The one thing I'll say is that we can replace him with someone else who isn't as good IF the new person doesn't get the PENALTIES. That's what is killing Greg Robinson, and our coaching staff really was livid after that last Seattle holding call that essentially lost the game. 

I just re-watched the game, and Robinson appeared to be pretty decent. Not perfect, but he certainly wasn't whipped or anything. I'm curious, do you know where to get some grading scores? I'd be curious to see how he did via technical scoring. 

I keep seeing Robinson “grades” better than Hubbard, and both guys have  their fair share of issues. The article you posted seems to sum up my thoughts on Robinson: he’s inconsistent. At times l simply don’t like his level of effort and l see Hubbard as a guy who at least puts forth the effort on a consistent basis even if the results aren’t great. 

[Ibleedbrown]

3 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

lol... this kind of depth is a labor of love, isn't it?

... but the understanding you gain plus the "other" stuff you see can make it worthwhile.

Nice job...

 

Indeed, haha! Thanks, and l can’t believe you used to break down the whole game. I’m pretty much outta steam after a half, haha.

[tiamat63]

27 minutes ago, Icecube said:

On a side, I never understand why the media gives over-glowing comments on Njoke as being so super talented. What has he ever done to constantly being described as such a great player? I mean, when healthy he isn't a bad player, but I don't get why so many refer to him as "super talented." He had 4 TDs all season last year. That's not exactly earth-shattering. So far he is way more potential than he is production. And after a few years of being more potential than production...well.............

He's our best redzone threat.

Notice that we've gone away from those fades on the perimeter without him being in?   That meant a great deal to Baker.

edit:

 

Well done on these threads. I enjoyed the read and the attempts at creating a grading system.   That type of effort is always appreciated.

[Icecube]

2 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

He's our best redzone threat.

Notice that we've gone away from those fades on the perimeter without him being in?   That meant a great deal to Baker.

edit:

 

Well done on these threads. I enjoyed the read and the attempts at creating a grading system.   That type of effort is always appreciated.

Their best redzone threat only got 4 TDs in a season? 

[tiamat63]

12 minutes ago, Icecube said:

Their best redzone threat only got 4 TDs in a season? 

 

Nobody on this team can highpoint a ball in the endzone like him.     Unless you have another name in mind?

[MDDawg]

16 minutes ago, Icecube said:

Their best redzone threat only got 4 TDs in a season? 

Our redzone productivity has dropped in his absence.

[TexasAg1969]

9 hours ago, nickers said:

I really think Oline and LB should be the focus of next draft!

Top OLs from drafttek     https://www.drafttek.com/2020-NFL-Draft-Position-Rankings/Top-College-Offensive-Tackles-2020-NFL-Draft.asp

And Top ILBs you can find off that link.

CBS only gives OL classification, but you can figure out which are OTs.  https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospect-rankings/offensive-linemen

LBs the same. You have to figure out if they are OLB or ILB from that link.

EDIT: BTW Michael Divinity from LSU is one of my favorites. Like White last year, you know when he hits you. In fact I watched him separate ball from RB today in S. Carolina with one of those jaw rattling hits. He's a load.

[nickers]

7 hours ago, The Gipper said:

But, correct me if I am wrong about the LBs....they are barely using either Avery or Takitaki, aren't they?  Shouldn't we see what they got?

Yeah... I'm waiting to see what happens during the 2nd half of the season.. And like Dutch said.. I agree DT and TE could be a priority,,, but .. Lets get the trenches fixed quick!